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Gunman Opens Fire at Event for Contest to Depict Prophet Mohammed; Mayor Lifts Curfew on Baltimore; President Expanding Help for Black Youth. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired May 04, 2015 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: But I do think that your critics have a point when they say that you paint with a broad brushstroke and it sounds like you're anti-Islam.

PAMELA GELLER, ORGANIZED "DRAW MOHAMMED" EVENT: No, you paint with a broad brush. You paint with a broad brush. I am anti-jihad. I am anti-sharia. You by saying I paint with a broad brush are saying all Muslims support jihad. And Alisyn, you sound very Islama-phobic.

CAMEROTA: Pam, of course all Muslims do not support jihad.

GELLER: Of course.

CAMEROTA: The point is when your speakers say that Islam is foolish, is ridiculous, he says here how evil and wrong Islam is. I mean, when you just said that of course you know Muslim people, do you think that they're evil and wrong? I mean how can your keynote speaker --

GELLER: I am not concerned with Muslims. I'm not concerned with Muslims, especially peaceful Muslims. I am concerned with the 25 percent that support sharia. I am concerned with the amputations and the female genital mutilation and the honor violence. I am concerned that the media whitewashes and scrubs this. I am concerned for the victims.

CAMEROTA: Of course.

GELLER: And if I have to take this kind of abuse to speak up for the victims, it seems like a small price to pay.

CAMEROTA: Listen, of course everyone's concerned about the violence. But let's face it, your event wasn't just about the violence. It was about --

GELLER: My event was about freedom of speech, period. Freedom of speech is the first amendment. It's the first and most protected political speech -- the most protected, because who would decide who's good and what's forbidden? These arbitrary voices? You? The Muslim Brotherhood? We need to have this conversation.

And the fact that we have to spend upwards of $50,000 in security speaks to how dangerous and how in trouble freedom of speech is in this country. And then we have to get on these news shows, and somehow we are, those that are targeted, those that were going to be slaughtered, are the ones who get attacked speaks to how morally inverted this conversation is.

CAMEROTA: Listen, Pam, this is not an attack. This is a conversation. And we're glad that you're having this conversation. I'm glad I -- thank CNN to allow us to have a conversation like this, because to your point we need to have conversations like this. But in terms of the event, in terms of what your plan is, what is your next plan? Now that you -- now that you all have survived this near-death experience, what will this do?

GELLER: Well, it will certainly wake up the American people to this violent assault on our most basic freedom. And people will begin to realize that this war is here. You know, you read about it in Europe, literally opening fire on a French magazine weekly and slaughtering cartoonists and journalists. And thinking that this is, well, that's Europe and they have these problems that we don't have. We have them. And people need to wake up and we need to take a firm stance of freedom of speech, and we will not abridge our freedom so as not to offend savages. And this is really -- I think the battle between freedom and slavery. It is that basic.

CAMEROTA: Pam Geller we do appreciate you coming on. We do appreciate this conversation. Thanks so much for sharing what happened last night. We're happy that you're safe and that everyone there, other than the gunmen, survived. Thanks so much.

GELLER: Thank you, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: We'd love to hear your thoughts on this. You can find me on Twitter @AlisynCamerota. We will have much more on our top story. We have a lot of breaking news to get to this morning, so let's get right to it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN breaking news.

CAMEROTA: Good morning, everyone. Welcome back to your new day, it is Monday, May 4th, 8:00 in the east. Chris Cuomo is live in Baltimore with all the latest developments in the Freddie Gray case, and Michaela Pereira is off today.

We do begin with breaking news for you. Two men opened fire outside a Texas building hosting an exhibit featuring cartoon drawings of the Prophet Muhammad. The FBI now investigating they are at a housing complex in Phoenix, Arizona, where the suspects are believed to have lived. CNN's team coverage begins with Ed Lavandera at the scene of the shooting in Garland, Texas. What do we know at this hour, Ed?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn. FBI teams are still on the ground here just as the sunlight is breaking here in Garland, Texas. They are collecting evidence, and from our vantage point we can still see the bodies of the two suspects lying next to the car.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just need everybody to remain calm, be orderly. I'm going to take you into the auditorium a little further away from the front of this building.

LAVANDERA: Breaking overnight, a deadly scene in a Dallas suburb. Two gunmen shot dead after opening fire and wounding a security guard outside an event center where a cartoon drawing contest of the Prophet Muhammad was being held. Law enforcement officials tell CNN the entire shooting lasted about 15 seconds.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We prepared for something like this.

LAVANDERA: The security officer, Bruce Joyner, was treated at the hospital for an ankle gunshot wound and released. This video shows the moment gunfire erupted, an interview with the president of the organization sponsoring the event cut abruptly short as security rushed the scene.

[08:05:08] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm sorry, we've got to stop this right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shots fired.

LAVANDERA: Witnesses describe the chaotic turn of events.

TOOYA ROBY, WITNESS: There were military or policemen everywhere running.

JOHN ROBY, WITNESS: Sounded like boom, boom. Then next thing they're telling us get inside, get inside. All the officers, of course, were drawing their weapons.

LAVANDERA: Attendees were escorted to another room in the conference center where the crowd sang "God Bless America."

(SINGING)

LAVANDERA: The event, which included a $10,000 top prize for the best caricature of the Prophet Muhammad, was organized by the American Freedom Defense Initiative, a controversial group which claims they are against Islamic jihad, while others call them a hate group.

Any physical depictions of the prophet are considered blasphemous to many Muslims and have sparked violence around the world. Sponsors of the contest billed it as a free speech event. The event featured keynote speaker and right wing Dutch politician Geert Wilders who is on an Al Qaeda hit list for wanting to ban the Koran in the Netherlands.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAVANDERA: And Alisyn, one of our CNN producers was inside the event as all of this unfolded last night. He described to us a very tense situation throughout the evening with a heavy law enforcement presence throughout. In fact we were told later on from law enforcement officials here in Garland that there was even a SWAT team in the back of the building ready to jump into action if anything like this were to happen. And obviously they were needed here last night. Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: I can only imagine how scary that must have been. Ed, thanks so much for that.

This, of course, is not the first time that images of the Prophet Muhammad have been the focal point of violence. CNN's senior international correspondent Nic Robertson puts all of this into context for us. Hi, Nic.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, indeed, Alisyn. Go back to January this cheer the "Charlie Hebdo" satirical magazine in Paris, they were having an editorial meeting. There was a cartoonist there who was also on the Al Qaeda hit list just like Geert Wilders who was attending that event in Texas. Two gunmen burst in, automatic weapons, they killed the cartoonist and along with some of his fellow workers, 11 people killed there altogether.

We later found out that those two gunmen had connections to Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, that's Al Qaeda in Yemen. Fast forward to February, Copenhagen, another cartoonist, Lars Vilks, Swedish, also on the Al Qaeda hit list, attending a freedom of speech event in Copenhagen in a cafe, a lone gunman approaches the cafe, tries to get in, opens fire with his automatic weapon, kills a filmmaker outside the venue. Lars Vilks and other people in the audience only say because Vilks had with him a Swedish and Danish security details.

Both those details pulled weapons, chased off the gunman. The gunman comes back later in the evening in Copenhagen, kills a guard outside a synagogue who was securing a bat mitzvah that was in progress that evening. That gunman there, later we find out in the minutes really before he goes on this killing spree, he's later killed by the police, and in the minutes before he goes on that killing spree has given this pledge of allegiance to ISIS leader Baghdadi. Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: OK, Nic, thanks so much for all of that background. We want to bring in Daveed Gartenstein-Ross. He's a counterterrorism expert. He's a senior fellow for the Foundation of Defense of Democracies. Thanks for being here. What do you see when you look at the breaking news from last night of this attack in Texas?

DAVEED GARTENSTEIN-ROSS, SENIOR FELLOW FOUNDATION FOR THE DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACIES: It's obviously awful to see this happen in the United States. The man who carried out this attack, at least one of the shooters, seems to have had a Twitter feed, something that could be identifiable by a number of factors, including that about 25 minutes before the attack occurred he basically, number one, gave his pledge of allegiance to the Islamic state and its Emir, and then signaled that the attack would happen, hashtaging it "Texas attack."

And jihadists online are treating it as though it's his account. Looking through his account it's someone who is pro-Islamic State, who is enraged by this event. Obviously authorities right now are looking into department of Phoenix, Arizona, meaning that he had to travel quite a ways. This was not just an attack of convenience.

CAMEROTA: So pro-Islamic state, does that mean he is connected to ISIS or is this a lone wolf?

GARTENSTEIN-ROSS: Well, he's not technically a lone wolf in that he had another shooter with him and there may have been other people who had foreknowledge of the events. But it doesn't appear that he had any sort of connection to the broader Islamic state organization in the sense he received training overseas or other sorts of support from them. The attackers were not particularly technically proficient. They didn't manage to kill anybody. The attack was over within about 15 seconds, and other jihadists online have been describing them as people who had no weapons training whatsoever.

CAMEROTA: As you've said we just learned in the past hour that investigators are at an apartment complex in Phoenix, Arizona, where these two gunmen are believed to live. What do we know about Phoenix, Arizona, and its connection to extremism and ISIS?

[08:10:05] GARTENSTEIN-ROSS: You've had some jihadist activity actually stretching back for some time in Arizona. Phoenix has not actually been the focal point of this but rather Tucson has been one of the areas that's seen a lot of jihadist activity, particularly Al Qaeda.

But it's hard to infer anything about the environment that these guys were in right now because we know so little biographical details. And we're increasingly seeing people who are radicalized by their online environment via social media and other interactions they're having in the virtual environment rather than the physical environment in which they live.

CAMEROTA: Geert Gilders was the keynote speaker at this event last night. He's a controversial figure and he's on the Al Qaeda hit list. So how seriously do does everyone take this Al Qaeda hit list?

GARTENSTEIN-ROSS: That's an excellent question. Obviously, the Al Qaeda hit list factored in the "Charlie Hebdo" killings, and that was carried out by Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula. Most of the figures on the Al Qaeda hit list are very controversial figures within the broader Muslim community especially for extremists.

And so I wouldn't necessarily say that hit list played a factor here. If you look at you know the online jihadist community, they were enraged about this for reasons that weren't related to the hit list. Other people are very controversial as well, including those who are not on the hit list.

But look, at the end of the day, listen to the last segment, one thing I should point out is that this wasn't an attack that was carried out by the Muslim community or some random Muslim. This was an I.S. supporter. He was someone who hated a wide variety of things, among the worst of the worst in terms of attitude. And so it's important to contextualize who is carrying this out.

CAMEROTA: And of course Pamela Geller, who we just had on who was the organizer of this event, her point is that you cannot let violence stop freedom of speech here in this country regardless of how repugnant some people might find it, and that this is just exhibit A of the chilling effect that even a lone wolf can have.

GARTENSTEIN-ROSS: Yes, there's a complex debate to be had about the contours of freedom of speech versus hate speech. But with respect to religious iconoclasm, there's a proud tradition within the west and there's iconoclasm which is very much celebrated. Look for example at the book of Mormon musical, something which, you know, is almost certainly, something Mormons, you know, they can laugh at themselves but they certainly don't like the religion to be mocked. Scientology is another religion in the U.S. that is often subjected to mockery and attacks upon it.

I think that we can't have the answer be that freedom of speech gets abridged when people are going to be violent, and not when they won't be. That's a very bad standard to have, and it's a standard I sometimes see being advocated. That's a standard we should absolutely as a society reject.

CAMEROTA: Of course Pamela Geller's point is that there would never be a book of Muslim musical here.

GARTENSTEIN-ROSS: Right, and there wouldn't be. The security costs would be too great. It's a -- it's almost certainly a play that nobody would take the financial risk of running.

CAMEROTA: Right. And she's saying that they're brave because they tried to have this contest but look at what happened with the violence. Obviously it's a debate that continues. Daveed thanks so much for being on with all the information.

GARTENSTEIN-ROSS: My pleasure.

CAMEROTA: Great to have you. Let's go back to Baltimore for our other top story and see what's happening there. Chris is on the ground for us. Hi, Chris.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, Alisyn. There's a debate going on here in Baltimore, as well, as the city's dusting itself off, trying to get back on its feet. The citywide curfew lifted by the mayor last night. The National Guard preparing to withdraw over the next 72 hours we're told. But six police officers have been charged in the death of Freddie Gray. Now, some people are very happy about that. Others say that it was a mistake. What will happen? We'll take you through it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: The city's mayor lifting the week-long 10:00 p.m. curfew, optimistic about what comes next.

MAYOR STEPHANIE RAWLINGS-BLAKE, (D) BALTIMORE: I think a lot of the unrest has been settled, settled down in the sense of the protests. But that doesn't mean the work doesn't continue.

CUOMO: And so far so good. Thousands gathering in front of city hall Sunday, a sea of people with different religious beliefs and backgrounds, together at this interfaith rally organized by the church.

PASTOR JAMAL BRYANT, EMPOWERMENT TEMPLE AME CHURCH: We have Buddhists, we have Catholics, we had Jews all coming together fighting for one Baltimore to come together.

CUOMO: And the 4,000 National Guard troops spread throughout Baltimore met with praise.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you. Thank you for everything you did.

CUOMO: And prayer as the governor delivered the orders for them to withdraw.

GOV. LARRY HOGAN, (R) MARYLAND: It's not going to happen instantaneously. It's going to take a couple of days to get everybody out. We had to build an entire city to save the city.

CUOMO: However the economic impact of Monday's riots is staggering -- 200 businesses destroyed by flames or looting, hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue lost. But the mall where it all started bounces back.

[08:15:00] RAWLINGS-BLAKE: It is such a dramatic difference from where it was on Monday. I'm just so grateful because it shows the resiliency of our city.

CUOMO (voice-over): Sunday's rally also being deemed a celebration after the announcement of the arrest and indictment for all six officers involved in the death of Freddie Gray.

MARILYN MOSBY, BALTIMORE CITY STATE'S ATTORNEY: The medical examiner's determination that Mr. Gray's death was a homicide, which we received today, has led us to believe that we have probable cause to file criminal charges.

CROWD: Yes! Yes!

CUOMO: Signifying for many one step toward the justice they're calling for.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: A local case, however, reverberates around the country. People calling on the president to be here and to do more for people in inner city poverty. Now comes news of the president launching a new nonprofit aimed at boosting the needs of young inner city black youth. Could this be a step forward in healing the recent uptick in racial tensions?

CNN's Sunlen Serfaty live at the White House with what we can expect -- Sunlen.

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Chris.

Well, the president will announce this new nonprofit foundation from the Bronx in New York today. Now, this is an independent spinoff of President Obama's already existing My Brother's Keeper Initiative that was launched in the wake of Trayvon Martin's killing with the goal of helping to empower young minority boys and communities. White House officials do tell us that President Obama will likely speak about the unrest in Baltimore in the context of the broader systemic problems that seen in so many neighborhoods like in Baltimore with Freddie Gray.

Now, meanwhile, Vice President Joe Biden, he was in Detroit last night speaking to an NAACP convention and called for some soul searching.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSEPH BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: With all that's going on in Baltimore and has gone on this year, we said there are police departments that have to do some soul searching. There are communities that have to do some soul searching. But I think we as a country need too do a lot of soul searching. We have to be able to see each other again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SERFATY: And the president will not have a formal role in this nonprofit foundation at this moment but this certainly does give us a big hint into what President Obama will take on after he leaves the White House -- Chris.

CUOMO: Hmm. All right, Sunlen, thank you very much.

Alisyn, as we go back to you in New York, Freddie Gray is the case everyone is focused on. But what you hear from leaders on the ground in Baltimore is, it is just a window, a symptom, into a much bigger problem that nobody wants to deal with, and that's what they're calling on the president for -- to find a way to deal with the poverty, not just when you see these horrible tragic circumstances.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, absolutely. We know you're engaged in all of those discussions there, Chris, and we'll get back to you momentarily.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

CAMEROTA: All right. A key race alert for you now: the 2016 Republican field just got a little more crowded. Former Hewlett- Packard chief executive Carly Fiorina just officially announcing her bid for the White House on TV, and on social media. In her announcement, she shows herself watching Hillary Clinton's announcement video, in an attempt to position herself as the anti- Hillary candidate.

On ABC this morning, Fiorina says she has admiration for Hillary Clinton but that Hillary is not trustworthy. Fiorina does not have yet a successful track record as a candidate. She lost in a California Senate in 2010.

While Saudi Arabia denying reports of a ground invasion into Yemen, sources say dozens of Arabs special forces are battling Houthi rebels for control of the airport in the port city of Aden. Meanwhile, local militias say Yemeni fighters trained in the Persian gulf have joined the fight against the Houthis. All right switching gears now, to a supercute moment between a pint

sized superhero, and President Obama. The commander in chief stopping to fist bump 4-year-old Luca Martinez, who is rocking goggles and superhero clothes before boarding Marine One. Luca was in the press corps with his dad who was an "Associated Press" photographer. That's cute.

All right. Let's get back to Baltimore, where Chris has been reporting for us for days now -- Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Alisyn. So, the cops here, those six officers, they've been charged in Freddie Gray's death. So we guess the situation is over, right? That's why so much of the media is gone. Things have calmed down.

You're going to meet a man who says not even close. Freddie Gray's just a symptom of a disease that nobody seems to want to cure -- when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:23:23] CUOMO: Well, the six officers have been charged here in Baltimore, so that's it. The problem's over. Everything's great now, right?

Wrong says the Reverend Jamal Bryant. And a lot of people who are civic leaders here in the community -- we have him now joining us. Thanks for joining us on NEW DAY.

REV. JAMAL BRYANT, ORGANIZED CITY HALL RALLY: Good morning. Thank you.

CUOMO: That's it. You got your charges Baltimore should be great now. Those impoverished communities bounce right back. This was the secret tonic, right?

BRYANT: Absolutely not. It's just the beginning of the threshold. A lot of people are minimizing it in the press. Just about Freddie Gray, but we've got 50 shades of gray that we're dealing with in terms of economic development, subpar housing, opportunities, drugs, you've got to deal with the blight of 16,000 abandoned homes. So, there are a whole lot of issues that we're going to have to give redress to.

CUOMO: Well, I don't get it. If Freddie Gray was just a symptom of the disease --

BRYANT: Yes.

CUOMO: -- then why wouldn't the disease get the same attention? Where is everybody? Where is everybody?

BRYANT: Well, this issue has been going forth for almost three to four decades. With complete oblivion from those who are in power. We're just 43 miles away from the U.S. capital, and we've got no intervention in terms of the department of housing. No intervention in terms of job training. No intervention in terms of infusion of capital.

So, just like Freddie Gray was screaming in the back of that police vehicle, Baltimore has been screaming. And so when people saw the uprising that took place in Baltimore, they don't realize it was an echo of a much greater frustration.

CUOMO: People thought it was just about Freddie, the rioting was about people who were just angry about this.

And you've been saying from the beginning, no, the roots go back. This was a bursting point.

[08:25:00] Not everybody who breaks a window is the same person. Some were opportunists, and simply criminals.

BRYANT: Right.

CUOMO: But others were speaking to a bigger outrage. And yet, where is the real motivation to cure it? Can it even be fixed?

You have like 130 million that they dumped into West Baltimore some years ago before O'Malley.

BRYANT: Right.

CUOMO: It was supposed to be the secret cure.

BRYANT: Right.

CUOMO: And it didn't work.

It seems like everybody tries to pick around the edges and avoids the main point, which is where are our jobs? Do you believe jobs are everything?

BRYANT: Jobs are absolutely everything. That it is, in fact, institution that makes any great city what it is that it can be. When you look at Detroit, they went through a major slump. Not because of morale, but because motor companies begin to move out and find themselves lost.

Many years ago, Baltimore was known for Bethlehem Steel. That it was, in fact, the major base for train tracks and things of that nature. When the jobs left, that's when a whole lot of things that we wouldn't want begin to creep back in.

CUOMO: Now, is there a reality that it can't be fixed? That job base is gone, and if there is no new normal here in terms of job base, there's simply no solution?

BRYANT: Well, the Harlem Renaissance poet Langston Hughes said, Let America be America again. That's what we're trying out for Baltimore.

Everything globally has to happen here locally. Yes, there's got to be revision of the police department. But even more than that, we've got to do something more for our public schools. The greatest piece of technology in a public school shouldn't be a metal detector. It should be computers.

CUOMO: You had that beautiful young woman who is a senior in high school and she was talking about how she's doing well. She's getting ready to graduate and she said I'm learning out of textbooks that were written in the '70s.

BRYANT: Right.

CUOMO: And everybody -- they weren't in shock. It was more of like this recognition of this collective hopelessness that you've been trying to fix here. And then you get to who you blame. You know, usually communities like this say people don't care about us. You don't have enough representatives from this community, and the party doesn't care. Not the case here. You have generations of Democrat elected African-Americans.

BRYANT: Right.

CUOMO: In almost your whole city council is African-American, the mayor, the prosecutor. Your results are still nowhere. So, did they fail you?

BRYANT: Well, the comrades in Ferguson when they took up the mantle of civil rights said the whole system is guilty. And I think that's that really the issue by virtue of the fact not necessarily that the textbooks are old, but here's what's amazing, Chris, they're still in the textbook, that they're not even looking at it on a computer. How can they, in fact, compete on a global scale when they're finding themselves really in a village mentality?

People in Baltimore shouldn't be treated as third class citizens from a third world nation in the most powerful place in the world but they're not given access.

CUOMO: The big pushback is, it's your fault. You guys don't work as hard. You don't care about school. You don't hold your families together. You turn to crime too easy. Blame yourselves.

BRYANT: Right. Benjamin May said you got to run twice as fast so you're never left behind. By virtue of the fact that you saw the youngest state's attorney of a major city, 35 years of age, able to pull herself up -- it didn't happen through osmosis. It didn't come because she was compelling to the eye, but because she made the hard work and the sacrifice.

That is the example that our young people now have. That if, in fact, you keep your focus clear, this is what you can ascend to. Not at 50, not at 70, but at 35. You can be in a position to run the city. And so we've been working hard, but you can't expect us to play football if you won't give us a football.

CUOMO: But you can only dream of what you believe to be achievable.

BRYANT: Yes.

CUOMO: And so, yes, you have the role model now but if you don't have the opportunity --

BRYANT: Absolutely.

CUOMO: -- you wind up broken-hearted. But we know you're fighting that fight.

BRYANT: Absolutely.

CUOMO: And you're going to keep organizing. But it's against you. The media is gone. The violence is gone. The leaders are now saying it's all about this one case.

So, you've got a big task. We've committed to the task --

BRYANT: Baltimore is committed to it.

CUOMO: We've committed to the dialogue. We won't go away. We'll stay on the issues.

BRYANT: Thank you so much.

CUOMO: Just like you, Rev. Appreciate it.

BRYANT: Appreciate it.

CUOMO: All right. Other big news for you this morning: Arizona roommates now the suspects in the shooting at this Texas event that was hosting a cartoon contest of the Prophet Mohammed. We have the latest on what investigators have found. We'll take you back to Texas for that.

Stay with us.

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