Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

Free Speech or Provocation; Mike Huckabee to Announce Presidential Bid; Questions About Email, Donations Dog Hillary. Bill Clinton: "I Gotta Pay Our Bills" On Paid Speeches. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired May 05, 2015 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:31:17] MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, here we go with the five things you need to know for your new day.

At number one, ISIS is taking credit for the attack at a Prophet Muhammad cartoon competition in Texas. One of the gunmen who was killed had just tweeted his allegiance to the terror group.

A U.S. college student, detained in North Korea, speaking exclusively to CNN. After entering the country illegally, Won-moon Joo says he's hoping to bring peace between North and South Korea.

Former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee set to become the latest Republican to enter the 2016 presidential mix. He'll be the sixth Republican to enter once he declares today.

Attorney General Loretta Lynch is heading to Baltimore today. She, along with other leaders, will meet with city officials, law enforcement and local leaders on the heels of the protests following Freddie Gray's death.

The death toll from that devastating earthquake in Nepal now over 7,500 lives lost. Relief agencies are warning now about the risk of disease due to lack of shelter, contaminated water and poor sanitation.

For more on the five things to know, be sure to visit newdaycnn.com for the very latest.

And if you'd like to find out more ways you can help the victims of the earthquake in Nepal, please visit cnn.com/impact.

Alisyn.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: OK, Michaela.

Well, free speech and inflammatory rhetoric, can they coexist without the risk of bloodshed? More of that heated conversation ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:36:48]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: So what people are saying is that there's always this fine line, you know, between freedom of speech and being intentionally incendiary and provocative.

PAMELA GELLER, ORGANIZED "DRAW MOHAMMED" EVENT: Intentionally incendiary and proactive by drawing a cartoon, this is the low state of freedom of speech in this country. I disagree and I disagree most vehemently.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: That was Pamela Geller defending her right to hold a contest of cartoons about the Prophet Mohammed. The debate has blossomed online after the shooting outside of Geller's event in Texas. Some call that event anti-Islam. Others say it was just about free speech. Pamela Geller was booked to come on NEW DAY to continue the conversation this morning but she canceled.

In her stead, we have Dean Obeidallah, a columnist for "The Daily Beast" and a host on Sirius XM Radio, and Haroon Moghul, senior correspondent at religiondispatches.org.

Gentlemen, great to see you.

DEAN OBEIDALLAH, COLUMNIST FOR "THE DAILY BEAST": Thanks.

CAMEROTA: OK, so let's just start right there, Dean. Does - is Pamela right, that she should have the right and ability to hold a cartoon contest about the Prophet Mohammad and nobody - I mean, look, obviously there should - that should never be met with violence.

OBEIDALLAH: Right.

CAMEROTA: No one is debating that violence should be the answer. But does she have the right to hold that? Is that freedom of speech?

OBEIDALLAH: Absolutely. Unequivocally. There's no but. She has that right. And it's not just me saying it. I wrote an article in "The Daily Beast" yesterday, speaking to many Muslim-American leaders, and you saw statements afterwards saying the exact same thing. She has every right to do that. That's her choice. That's freedom of expression. Our response is to counter with our own speech or our own draw a Pamela Geller contest or something along those lines where we can have fun with it and we might even do a draw a Pamela Geller contest because it's already emerging organically on Twitter and on FaceBook now. That's the way to respond.

CAMEROTA: So, I mean, this is the United States of America. Of course she can hold a cartoon contest. That's not really the debate. I guess the debate is, what's the line? The debate is, what's the line between freedom of speech -- that's what I was trying to get to with Pamela Geller yesterday, which is, what's the debate between that and intentionally inflammatory rhetoric? And, of course, that's been debated for years. It's impossible to know exactly what that line is. HAROON MOGHUL, SENIOR CORRESPONDENT, RELIGIONDISPATCHES.ORG: We don't have a line in the United States, really. We can pretty much say anything we want. And I think that's a good thing. The problem is that she's actually hypocritical. One of the lead speakers of the event in Garland, Texas, Geert Wilders, wants to ban the Koran. She's been at the forefront of restricting mosques, restricting Muslim freedom of speech. So if she's really about freedom of speech, then there wouldn't be a problem. The reason I think a lot of Muslims are protesting and they're upset with her, and this is all peaceful protesting I'm talking about or opposing her in writing, is because she's against our freedom of speech. She's very selective in her First Amendment rallying cries.

CAMEROTA: One of the things that I got into with her yesterday was that at her event they weren't just talking about extremism. I mean at least not based on the verbatim copy of what the keynote speaker was saying. So let me read to you this portion.

OBEIDALLAH: Sure.

CAMEROTA: You'll like this, Dean, because it relates to you. Geert Wilders said, "our Judeo-Christian culture is far superior to the Islamic one. I can give you a million reasons. But here is an important one. We have got humor and they don't. Islam does not allow free speech, because free speech shows how evil and wrong Islam is. And Islam does not allow humor because humor shows how foolish and ridiculous it is."

[08:40:03] Dean, you are a Muslim comedian.

OBEIDALLAH: I am a Muslim comedian.

CAMEROTA: Is that an oxymoron?

OBEIDALLAH: Not at all. And there are many of us. And we're everywhere. In fact, I made a comedy documentary with my friend, Negin Farsad called "The Muslims are Coming," where we did little (ph) free (ph) shows in the south and met people. Pamela Geller wrote an article attacking me and Negin saying we're trying to impose (ph) Sharia law through our comedy. And I've done comedy in Saudi Arabia. There are comics who are in Saudi, in Egypt. I've done comedy in Lebanon, across the region.

CAMEROTA: So why does he think that Islam doesn't allow comedy and humor?

OBEIDALLAH: He's not a bright guy. This is a guy that actually - they didn't have enough haters in America. They imported a man known for anti-Muslim rhetoric to come to this country.

The idea that the cartoon contest about freedom of expression is a joke. It was to stoke the flames of hate against Muslims. We know that. But guess what, the Muslim community in Texas had rallied and said, we are not going to go. I spoke to Ali Salin (ph), the head of the Dallas chapter of care, they, on Facebook, to their members, they said passionately, ignore her. Not one Muslim went. We don't - Pamela Geller to us, and we know her well from her work for five years, is literally becoming a punch line in our community. She's not a threat to us. She wants attention. She craves it. That's what she's about.

CAMEROTA: Are you saying the cartoon contest was a joke. I mean what if it hadn't been Pamela Geller, Haroon? What if it had been somebody else who just said, I'm going to hold a cartoon contest to draw depictions of the Prophet Mohammed, then is it met with the same sort of reaction?

MOGHUL: Yes. Dallas actually is one of the centers of America Muslim life. I think a lot of people don't realize that but some of American Islam's leading religious figures, most important scholars, most influential scholars, live in the Dallas, Texas, area. Not a single one of them counsel the Muslim community exactly, as Dean said, to do anything, to say anything. Not even to peacefully protest. They basically shrugged it off. And I think that would have been the response to anyone other than Geller. I think the fact that it was Geller made it even easier to come to that conclusion. But, overwhelmingly, American Muslim communities shrugged this off. We make jokes about it, we laugh about it and we move on.

CAMEROTA: OK. And yet, of course, the larger issue that she was making is that something terribly violent did happen -

OBEIDALLAH: Yes.

CAMEROTA: At this event. And so there were these two extremist who are so incensed that there is this depiction of the Prophet Mohammed and they did try to take lives and they did show up with guns. So what is the answer to that?

OBEIDALLAH: We don't know their true motivation. Let's be honest, we don't know if they did it because they were offended by the images or -

CAMEROTA: We know from their postings. I mean they did post on Twitter to say that they were offended and that they have aligned themselves with ISIS.

OBEIDALLAH: Aligning themselves with ISIS and committing a terrorist attack, I think there's no doubt about that. The question, are they truly organically offended by this or are they using this as an opportunity like what they saw with "Charlie Hebdo," they get national press, to do something with their lives. Their lives have not worked out (ph). But one of them, Simpson, already in 2010, had plead guilty to lying to federal agents because he wanted to join violent jihad and travel to other countries.

The man - I think they were troubled. I think we should know more about - I think we should know about their mental history. Usually if someone's Muslim, we don't do that work-up of their medical history. If they're not Muslim, someone does something bad, we hear about how many doctors they went to, all their issues. Muslims can be mentally ill, too, just so people understand that. And there can be a component of that in that. I'm not saying this is, but let's - let's look through everything before we decide it was actually about the cartoons.

CAMEROTA: Look, the bottom line is that there is freedom of speech here and the freedom to have this conversation, the freedom to have this debate. I mean Pamela Geller wasn't that comfortable with some of the questions that I was having. And as a champion of free speech, as she calls herself, we should all be able to have this conversation and Muslims should be comfortable about it as well.

MOGHUL: I agree with you. I agree with you 100 percent. And I think that we're doing ourselves a disservice if we think this is really about cartoons. I think that Elton Simpson at least, one of the two - two suspects - attackers, he was already radicalized. This was an opportunity for them, but it wasn't what pushed them over the edge. I believe they were already pushed over the edge. They were looking for an opportunity. And this struck them as that opportunity. And that's the saddest part and the most unfortunate part.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely. Dean, Haroon, thanks so much for continuing the conversation.

OBEIDALLAH: Thank you.

MOGHUL: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Great to have it.

We, of course, want to know what your thoughts are. We'd love to hear your take on this despite the rhetoric going on, on my Twitter feed right now, that you can join @alisyncamerota. You can also tweet us, use the #newdaycnn or tell us on facebook.com/newday.

Michaela.

PEREIRA: Rhetoric on Twitter?

CAMEROTA: Shocking.

PEREIRA: I don't know what you're talking about.

All right, still ahead, Mike Huckabee is set to declare his place in the 2016 Republican field. How is it going to impact the race and who is next? We'll take a look.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:47:45] CUOMO: Mike Huckabee, former Arkansas Governor, ready to join the 2016 presidential race. That means he will join Ben Carson and Carly Fiorina, alongside senators Marco Rubio, Ted Paul -- not Ted Paul -

CAMEROTA: Rand Paul.

CUOMO: That would be a great ticket.

CAMEROTA: A hybrid.

CUOMO: Ted Cruz and Rand Paul. And then remember, we have Jeb Bush on, you got Scott Walker. Many expect him to step up and soon.

So let's discuss the field as it stands. Van Jones, S.E. Cupp, you guess which is which when it comes to parties.

S.E., how do you feel about Huckabee getting in and how do you feel about a big field? Is that good, robust, more debate, or do you think it might hamper?

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: First on Huckabee, I think he's in a great spot. If you're Mike Huckabee looking at the past two cycles, you remember that he won the Iowa caucus in 2008, and in 2012, he was not running, but two of the last three guys standing in the Republican primary were social conservatives. And I think if he's looking around at the field, he sees that he is probably the most convincing social conservative who is yet to enter into the race.

Not to mention the fact of all of the Republican candidates who have announced, who have gotten in, most of whom live south of the Mason Dixon Line, he is really the only one who actually sounds like it. And I think if he is trying to attract that voter, you know, who wants to vote for one of their hunting buddies, I think he really is the more authentic version of that kind of folksy guy. Plus, he is affable, he says everything with a smile, and today's toxic political kind of environment, I think that's really appealing.

CAMEROTA: Plus, he plays a mean guitar.

CUOMO: Bass.

CAMEROTA: Bass, right. Bum, bum. Van, what do you think of his candidacy?

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I have had a chance to meet him, I think he is a disarmingly charming guy. His politics are very, very Right-wing. He is anti-choice in almost every situation, and he certainly has been outspoken as an opponent of marriage equality, so he is completely unacceptable to the mainstream American voter now. But at the same time, S.E. is right: he is impossible not to like. And he will break out the guitar, you know, he actually is somehow able to pull off something that's very hard to pull off nowadays.

[08:50:05] He's able to be very firm in his convictions and at the same time, not seem that he actually hates anybody or he is mad at the other side. He often says, look, I am a conservative, but I'm not mad at anybody. I think he will be a welcome addition to this race and at the same time, like I said, his views place him outside of where the American consensus is forming on questions like women's right to choose and on questions like marriage equality.

CUOMO: It's nice when politics doesn't have to be all about hating the other side. Van Jones, staying with you, you've put all your carrots on one horse in Hillary Clinton. Now she's got these questions coming up, she's going to have to go before Congress, get in that hearing, talk about Benghazi again, talk about these emails. How risky? JONES: Listen, I think all Democrats are a little nervous that, you

know, we only seem to have one very strong candidate. I have not endorsed anybody. I am looking at Bernie Sanders, I'm looking at - longingly wishing that Elizabeth Warren would at least get into the debate. But the reality is, you know, when you look at Hillary Clinton, she is still head and shoulders about anybody and everybody, republican or Democrat, she's the most famous woman in the world. They keep saying Benghazi, Benghazi over and over again, they talk about the e-mails. Nobody really seems to care. Her poll numbers have barely moved despite this huge attack on her and I think she is still the best candidate in the --

CUOMO: Cut him off, S.E. What do you mean -- All the poll numbers are showing that her credibility is falling because of these allegations, her numbers are pulling back. Don't let Jones get away with that. Get after him.

CUPP: Well, look, he said it for me. She is the most famous woman in the world and the problem for Hillary Clinton is that she has rebranded herself for the 18th time as someone who is an average, everyday average American, and that's just not believable. I think she should run as herself. She is a Washington insider, she has 30 years of experience, she is not average or normal. She is famous, she is successful, she is larger than life and the more she pretends to be like you and me, the more awkward her rhetoric sounds.

When Bill Clinton comes out to say we had to pay the bills and that's why I took all of these speeches, that just doesn't resonate. Own it. You are millionaires and you are incredibly successful, run as the world's most famous woman. I don't care how many Chipotle's she goes to, we are just not buying that she is like you and me.

CAMEROTA: Hold on, Van, because we have that moment on tape where Bill Clinton talks about how he gets $500,000 speaking fee, and I want you to listen to the substance in his answer and the tone. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FORMER PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON: Over the last 15 years, I have taken almost no capital gains.

CYNTHIA MCFADDEN, NBC HOST: But why do it? (INAUDIBLE)

CLINTONL: And I have given 10 percent -- to pay my bills and because in the --

MCFADDEN: Regular working Americans look and say, $500,000 for a speech?

CLINTON: Why shouldn't every -- It's the most independence I can get. It's -- I don't -- if I had a business relationship with somebody, they would have a target on their back from the day they did business with me until the end.

(END VIDEO CLIP) CAMEROTA: Van, what do you think of his response?

CUPP: Uh.

(LAUGHTER)

CAMEROTA: Maybe I should go to S.E. first.

JONES: I think he sounds very defensive.

CAMEROTA: You think he sounds -

JONES: Listen, I think he sounds very defensive. You can run that as a tape in a freshman class about how not to respond under pressure with a tough thing. That's not the Bill Clinton that won a couple of elections and is a world figure and they will have to get more comfortable.

Listen, what I like about what Hillary Clinton is doing - by the way, she is the one running, not him - is that she is doing just what she did in New York when she ran for Senate, she's going -- she is not saying I am an ordinary person, she is saying I want to hear from ordinary people and that strategy worked for her when she did her listening tour for Senate. I think it may work for her today. But I will tell you what, Bill Clinton needs to go back to get a remedial course in communications. That was not effective yesterday.

CAMEROTA: S.E., what do you think?

CUPP: He was also asked about the donations to his foundation and his answer was almost senile, it was that bizarre. He defended it by saying, well, I mean, who could be against raising money for the poor? That is nobody's problem with what the Clinton Foundation does. The problem is with transparency, disclosure, and conflicts of interest. To not address that head-on looks really bizarre and out of touch.

Look, Van is right. Hillary Clinton ran a great campaign in the early 2000s, but the problem for her is her party has moved far to the left. They were centrists, when he was in office and when she ran, they were centrists. The party is not there anymore, so she is having to recalibrate between the progressives that Van wants to speak up more, and the moderates that Democrats sorely need to actually win.

[08:55:03] CUOMO: Yeah, but S.E., if you were so right about the party, they would not be making such a clear path for her as they are. It's not just a coincidence that you don't have other people getting in the race. This is who they feel is the strongest, this is who the party wants there, otherwise you would probably have more people in there.

CAMEROTA: Alright, we have to go. On that note.

JONES: I just want to say one thing.

CAMEROTA: Quickly, Van. JONES: I just think the Clinton Global Initiative has actually done a

bunch of good stuff and at some point, they should actually say a lot more about the millions of people that they've helped and the lives that they have saved. I think they shouldn't be on the defensive so much. They may have not handled all the transparency the right way that the Right-wing will make a big about that. So they should talk more about the good they have done..

CAMEROTA: There you go.

JONES: They've done good with that foundation

CAMEROTA: Van, S.E., thank you.

CUPP: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Let's get over to Michaela.

PEREIRA: Talking about good people, the police are in the headlines right now. We want to tell you a great story about a police officer who not only saved a life but wanted to find out what became of one of those lives. It is terrific and it's our Good Stuff today.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:59:51] CUOMO: Time for The Good Stuff. Last time officer Mike Buelna saw Robin Barton was in 1989. Robin was just 4 hours old. Buelna was on patrol, he heard him in a dumpster and thought it was a kitten. Thanks to Beulna, Robin survived, was later adopted, his adopted parents found the officer who is now retired. And guess what? Arranged a meeting.

CAMEORTA: Oh, how beautiful.

Thank goodness.

PEREIRA: Great story.

CUOMO: The kid is doing great.

PEREIRA: Yes, he is handsome, too.

All right, let's go to the "NEWSROOM" and Carol Costello. Good morning, my dear.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR, "NEWSROOM": Oh, he is handsome. Thanks, guys. Have a great day. "NEWSROOM" starts now.