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New Day

Fmr. Deputy State's Attorney Criticizes Charges Against Baltimore Officers; North Korea Takes on Scathing Allegations; French Alps Co-Pilot Practiced Crash. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired May 06, 2015 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[06:32:49] MARILYN MOSBY, BALTIMORE STATE'S ATTORNEY: The findings of our comprehensive, thorough and independent investigation coupled with the medical examiner's determination that Mr. Gray's death was a homicide which we received today, has led us to believe that we have probable cause to file criminal charges.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: That's Baltimore's state's attorney, the prosecutor, Marilyn Mosby, wasting no time charging the officers arrested in the Freddie Gray case.

But should she have taken more time? Will these charges stand up?

There are a lot of questions being asked. We have a guest who's asking them as well.

Page Croyder, she spent 21 years with the Baltimore state attorney's office, most recently serving as deputy state's attorney.

Ms. Croyder, thank you very much for joining us. Do you believe these charges will stand?

PAGE CROYDER, FMR. DEPUTY STATE'S ATTORNEY, BALTIMORE: Well, that is not my call to make. What I have criticized is the rush to place the charges in the first place. And I believe that that in and of itself places the charges in jeopardy.

I listened again to that clip that you just played in which the state's attorney said there was a thorough and comprehensive investigation. In my experience, two weeks could not possibly provide enough time for a thorough and comprehensive investigation. And in that very same clip she said she got the autopsy report the same day she was announcing the charges. There was insufficient time to analyze that, to consult with experts and to really -- to connect that to the rest of the evidence.

All indications are was that she was determined to charge as quickly as possible. And in my experience and judgment, that can lead to false expectations as what might become with these charges if they were not the right charges to place in the first place.

CUOMO: But, Ms. Croyder, what's so complicated about this situation? You got a crushed larynx, you got a broken spine. And you have the only thing that happened in Freddie Gray's life that day was his altercation with police.

If it were a civilian and not cops, do you really think you'd need a long time to charge somebody?

[06:35:00] CROYDER: Oh, yes. One thing that the state attorneys office has not been able to explain and did not explain in their own probable cause statement is how his neck was broken. They don't address that at all. What they say is that some time in the van, he wasn't wearing a seat belt and his neck was broken.

That is a very crucial question. Did the police know that his neck was broken? How was it broken? You know, that is a crucial question.

She seems to be charging them with not acting as opposed to breaking his neck. Not acting could range the gamut from negligence, which is not criminal, to what she says is depraved heart murder which there is no evidence even in her own probable cause statement for depraved heart murder. The most that she seems to say in the probable cause statement is gross negligence.

So, yes, there is a lot to be done leading up to placing charges. You need to talk to witnesses. You need to -- really should have brought them before the grand jury to put them under oath, to lock in their testimony, to explore the issues.

This is a much more complicated case. And, of course, it's also a very volatile case. What happens here in the courtroom is very important.

And what I meant by false expectations -- there could be two such kinds of false expectations. One is, she has set up the expectation that these officers are guilty and will be convicted. If that doesn't happen, what could be the consequence?

The other possible false expectation is if they are not convicted that somehow the justice system is unfair, like it's been perceived to be unfair in other jurisdictions. And maybe the unfairness wasn't in the criminal justice system. Maybe it was working correctly, the unfairness was in the charges to begin with.

You have to take your time. That doesn't mean an unreasonable amount of time. Doesn't mean take a year. But two weeks was an unreasonable amount of time to conclude that these were the correct charges.

And we are already seeing problems. As I said, depraved heart murder is not justified by her own probable cause statement. She's charged two --

CUOMO: A probable cause statement, as you know, Ms. Croyder, just so the audience understands, that's a very low threshold statement. That doesn't mean it's everything that the prosecutor has, that doesn't mean what you're going to see as you move forward if there's an indictment or certainly when you get to trial. Let's not put too much pressure on the probable cause statement.

CROYDER: Oh, I completely disagree because these charges were brought by the prosecutor herself. And not only that, you have to have probable cause to show depraved heart murder. That is not present in those documents.

CUOMO: Right. But --

CROYDER: So, you have to have probable cause to even put that -- no, you have to have probable cause to even put that charge on the charging document.

CUOMO: Understood.

CROYDER: OK? That is not there.

CUOMO: Understood, you need probable cause. But what I'm saying what you need to show to substantiate probable cause isn't as high a burden as will come later on.

But let me ask you something else, Ms. Croyder, because you have very valuable insight here. Your op-ed does a lot more than just say she should have taken more time. You say you're thinking of moving. You're saying cops should think about whether or not to do their job.

Those are very heavy charges. Do you really believe that Baltimore may blow up as a result of this?

CROYDER: That's not what I was saying. What I was saying is that one of the things that the state's attorney -- it's not my office anymore. It's my ex-office.

But one of the things the state's attorney has done is something that's very new here. And that is that she has decided to charge arresting officers for not having probable cause to arrest.

Now, leave aside the fact that it looks like they did. That's one of the problems with the haste that's happened here. But let's leave aside that.

Charging officers for not having probable cause to arrest, usually what happens is they are civilly liable and can be sued. She is now saying that you can -- they can be locked up for false imprisonment and arrest. Now, she may possibly have been guilty of the same thing herself by charging and arresting those officers without probable cause.

CUOMO: Right. I don't mean right. I'm not agreeing with you.

I get that point. That is a point. It depends on --

(CROSSTALK)

CROYDER: So, let me -- so, let me -- let me continue with the point.

If the officers cannot -- if the officers are subject to criminal charges, if they make a mistake in their arrest, either they were under duress and they acted -- they made a mistake, or they didn't know the law because they were improperly trained.

As opposed to lying about probable cause, planting evidence or making things up, if they are mistaken, she is setting the precedent that they could go to jail. That is the point I was trying to address in my piece. That is a very -- that is a chill on the police department. And if I were a police officer, I could not work under those circumstances.

CUOMO: Right.

CROYDER: That's the point I was making.

[06:40:00] CUOMO: That is one reading of the situation, what the state's attorney has said is that she's charging because they didn't have a reason to arrest Freddie Gray. And they arrested him anyway.

But we'll have to see how it plays off. And in your op-ed, we direct people to it, on "The Baltimore Sun". You know, you said if you were a police officer, I'd be looking for another job immediately. And as a Baltimore citizen, I may start looking for some place else to live. Pretty inflammatory language.

But, Ms. Croyder, thank you for joining us. Appreciate your perspective on NEW DAY.

Alisyn?

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: OK, Chris.

Well, North Korea denies any charges of human rights violations. They insist accusations by the West are nothing but lies. So, we take you inside the rogue nation to see how its leaders have mastered the art of denial.

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MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Slander and lies -- that's what North Korea calls charges against it from the outside world. The mass executions never happened, they say. Labor camps, they say they do not exist.

CNN's Will Ripley live from Pyongyang with an exclusive look into how the regime makes its implausible claims -- Will.

[06:45:01] WILL RIPLEY, CNN ANCHOR: Michaela, normally, North Korea releases its statements not interviews. That's how the propaganda machine works here. This is the first time in many years we've spoken to a high level official.

And we asked first and foremost about the reports that the supreme leader Kim Jong-un or the executions of 15 high-level officials just this year, this official tells us those reports are baseless and groundless. But he also says it's not unusual for countries to execute people who go against the government.

Other topics we discussed, North Korea's nuclear arsenal. We asked if the reports are true that the country has 20 nuclear devices and the capability to double that number in the very near future. He replied North Korea does have nuclear weapons. He also pointed out that the country he says has a ballistic missile capable of reaching the mainland United States.

We also asked about that United Nations report alleging widespread human rights abuses at the country's labor camps, murder, executions, torture. He denied those reports. He said North Korea does have prison camps for criminals, but he says they don't put any political dissidents in there. And he then pointed back at the United States mentioning the incidence of violence against African-Americans -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Will, thanks so much for that stunning report.

Well, storms are expected in the heartland today. Let's get right to meteorologist Chad Myers with all of the forecast.

What are you seeing, Chad?

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Alisyn, you put me on your show and things are about to get real.

Big storms in Oklahoma and Texas, there they are right now. They will redevelop back out here in the plains and move right back into the same areas. Oklahoma City, Dallas, all the way up into parts of Wichita, Kansas as well.

There's the weather for today, and it doesn't move for the next three days. Weather in the same spots, severe weather, probably a lot of chasers out there again today. You need to be very careful. NOAA weather radio on a pickup truck does not make you a storm chaser.

Watch out today. There will be storms firing up today, tomorrow, Saturday and even into Sunday.

One more thing off the East Coast, not the first named storm but the first tropical-ish system of the year. Nothing there going on yet, but it could make a rough surf kind of weekend for parts of the Carolinas and for Florida. If you like that kind of thing, it could be a lot of fun. If you don't, please stay out of the water. Rip currents will be all over the place -- Chris.

CUOMO: Tropical-ish.

MYERS: Ish. Not yet. It's not there yet. Take some time to get there.

CUOMO: Very sciencey. Thank you very much, Chad.

CAMEROTA: He's on fire today. He said things are about to get real.

PEREIRA: It was impressive. I lost it. It was shocking to me.

(LAUGHTER)

CUOMO: You shocked us, Chad. Good for you.

Another shocking thing: this attempted ambush at a Prophet Mohammed cartoon event in Texas. Now, we have this debate over the limits of free speech. Is this really about the right to say things, or is it about whether or not it is right to say things? The debate, ahead.

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[06:51:50] PAMELA GELLER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, AMERICAN FREEDOM DEFENSE INITIATIVE: You know, in the wake of the "Charlie Hebdo" slaughter, the media across Europe ran the cartoons and it was "Je suis Charlie". Here, it's "Je suis Jihad".

(END VIDEO CLP)

CUOMO: That is Pamela Geller commenting on that shooting outside a contest she hosted in Texas which featured drawings of the Prophet Mohammed.

Now, Geller says she feels that she's being attacked for holding the event, which she argues is just about free speech.

Let's talk more about this with CNN political commentators Ben Ferguson, host of "The Ben Ferguson Show", and Marc Lamont Hill, a host at "HuffPost Live".

And I'll start with you, Mr. Ferguson.

Is this a red herring that this is about the First Amendment and free speech? Who's saying Pamela Geller didn't have the right to hold this event? Isn't it about the quality of the message and what the impact is of the message? Not her right to say it.

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think it's a little bit of both. And there are a lot of people that say, hey, you shouldn't do this because you're inciting other people. The fact is if we start limiting people that we disagree with or blaming those that are exercising free speech for the attacks, we're not the free country that we claim that we are, that people literally try to sneak in to every single day because this country is so free.

And there are people that say and do things that I don't like. There are things that people say all the time that other people don't like. But in America, we allow them to have the right. And we also protect the right for them to exercise this.

So, when you saw this attack happened, there was a lot of people saying -- well, she should have known better. Well, she incited this.

When did we become a place where we actually go after the person exercising free speech instead of the terrorists that came to silence her and others? And I think that's something that's very concerning.

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I don't know anyone and Ben and I have been in different circles -- and I don't know anyone who's made the argument that says she doesn't have the right to say it.

People like I know myself are saying, yes, you have a right to say it. I don't think it rises to the legal level of inciting anything.

I think the question, though, is why do you want to do this? This didn't feel like an exercise in free speech that resulted in an unfortunate occurrence. It seemed like they were generally saying we're going to have an event for the sole purpose of ticking off Muslims, for sowing Islamophobic, for doing all of these things.

And I don't think it was about First Amendment even for them. I mean, there were speakers. One of the keynote speakers is from the Netherlands and he's advocating getting rid of the Koran in the country. So, he's not even a First Amendment advocate.

I think this is much more about creating a spectacle. And the sad thing for me is two sort of outliers in the Islamic community came in and gave them what they were looking for. I don't -- I'm not saying they were looking to die, but I think they were looking to make an example.

CUOMO: Go ahead, Ben.

FERGUSON: This conference, you have to put it in context. In January, you had a pro-Muslim conference which was really an anti- American conference. You had multiple speakers in the same place that came in who actually celebrated the attacks on this country on 9/11. They also said that the attacks against American soldiers were justified in the Middle East.

And so, that's why you had this event in the first place. She said, if you're going to come in and recruit the next Boston bomber or try to find the next lone wolf, which many people by the way at that conference in January thought that was nothing more than a let's find the next American extremist who might want to be the next lone wolf.

[06:55:03] CUOMO: Right.

FERGUSON: When you have speakers like that, so you have a response to it. That's why they had this. And yet, there wasn't many people --

CUOMO: Ben, you're making the case --

FERGUSON: -- that were criticizing the Muslim event in January.

CUOMO: Ben, you're making the case that this was a tit-for-tat. And that's the criticism of it.

FERGUSON: No, absolutely it was.

CUOMO: You said put it in context.

HILL: It's a problem.

CUOMO: You said put it in context. They came here, the Muslims, and they said all this anti-American stuff. So, they then had this event.

That suggests they had this to counter what they didn't like about that event which is why it had such a tenor of Islamophobia and anti-Islamist sentiment. That's what people are talking about.

HILL: That's what makes it irresponsible to me.

FERGUSON: The thing was is when she had the conference the main point she was making is we will not back down. After "Charlie Hebdo," after the attacks there in America, we're not going to limit the free speech of people that do it.

I'm not saying --

(CROSSTALK)

HILL: Draw the Prophet Mohammed?

FERGUSON: Let me say this -- I'm not saying it was a smart event. I'm saying though that in this country the fact that we're allowed to have these events is what makes this country --

CUOMO: Absolutely, absolutely.

But here's the criticism on your side is that the left is afraid of saying anything offensive about Islam. You don't feel like that about Christianity. You attack the Catholic Church all the time. But when it comes to Islam --

HILL: I think that's different.

CUOMO: Well, no, religion for religion.

FERGUSON: How is it different?

HILL: Here's how it's different. I don't accept the terms of what you're suggesting.

CUOMO: Please? You reject my premise.

HILL: I do. You say the Catholic Church is X, that's a critical analysis. If you say Islam has some issues with patriarch. Islam has some issues with sexuality. I think that's also appropriate.

But drawing the Prophet Mohammed for the sole purpose of violating that is a principle --

CUOMO: But you wouldn't punish somebody for Piss Christ. You wouldn't do it. You won't put on the media pictures of Mohammed because you don't want to upset Islam. But you put pictures of Piss Christ.

HILL: Well, I think, again, context matters. If there are -- first of all --

(CROSSTALK)

FERGUSON: It's political correctness.

CUOMO: The media would. You would say this is really upsetting a lot of people, it's Jesus made of meat or whatever it is. You would do it.

HILL: That's an amazing critique of the media and you were saying it was a critique of the left. And I'm saying that's -- I don't think that's a fair analysis.

CUOMO: I think that very often, the left bleeds into the --

(CROSSTALK)

HILL: Yes, even if I conceded media were more left wing, it doesn't mean that represents the left as --

CUOMO: I'm saying does Islam get a favoritism?

FERGUSON: Yes.

HILL: You think Islam gets a favoritism? Absolutely not. Muslim as seen as more violent than other religions, they're scene as less civilized than other religions. They're seen more prone to terrorism than other religions.

CUOMO: You see that as being baseless?

HILL: Yes, I see that as baseless. As being less civilized --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: Ben Ferguson is about to say right now, who has attacked America in this country and he's going to use it as an example.

Ben?

FERGUSON: The prime example is what you literally just said. There is no other religion that gets the protections that we've recently given Islam in this country to be politically correct.

HILL: Those five prayers in school we have.

(CROSSTALK)

FERGUSON: Marc, listen to what I'm actually saying.

The fact that we have people that won't even show the cartoons, any other religion that is criticized, mocked, whether it be the Catholic Church, whether that'd be the jokes on "Saturday Night Live" that came out against basically every priest when you had the sex scandal, the fact you had horrible depictions of Jesus Christ with what we just referred to, the fact you have plays on Broadway that mock religions, they don't have to get any other security for that.

CUOMO: Ben, let's end it there. Let's end it there. That's the point we were making. Thank you very much.

Thank you as well.

HILL: You're both still wrong.

CUOMO: That's fine. But the point of a good debate is this -- I no longer know how I feel, but I know you all feel I'm wrong about what I said. So, you tweet us, you Facebook us. And let us know where you are on this because it's a part of our cultural evolution.

A big story this morning, but there's a lot of breaking news. So, let's get to it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: The co-pilot who crashed Germanwings Flight 9525 into the French Alps rehearsed his suicide mission.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: During that flight, there were several changes of altitude.

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: An attempted terrorist attack was foiled.

UNIDENTIFEID MALE: This was the call of ISIS, pick up a weapon and do anything you can do.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Whoever he was with talked him into it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The D.A.'s office absolutely has no trust whatsoever with the police commissioner or its department.

ANTHONY BATTS, BALTIMORE POLICE COMMISSIONER: I can say I was probably surprised by the information that I heard.

LORETTA LYNCH, ATTORNEY GENERAL: Baltimore's come to symbolize a lot of the issues involving police and community mistrust.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

CUOMO: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to our viewers here in the U.S. and around the world. You're watching NEW DAY.

And we do begin with breaking news this morning. A new investigative report is out on the crash of Germanwings Flight and it contains some bombshell findings.

First, the co-pilot who crashed Flight 9525 into the French Alps rehearsed his suicide mission earlier that same day.

CUOMO: The report also says that the co-pilot reset the autopilot to just 100 feet five different times on his practice run. That's raising questions.

So, let's get right to CNN senior international correspondent Fred Pleitgen live in London with these details.

What do we know, Fred?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Chris, we know that when we speak about rehearsal in all of this, that the scenario that he did this in, in the outbound flight, this is the flight before the doomed flight -- the situation he was in was exactly the same as it later was on that doomed flight.