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New Day

Ten People Missing in Van, Texas After Tornado; Seymour Hersh: Osama Bin Laden Account Inaccurate; Interview with Sen. Ron Johnson; Sister Helen Prejean to Testify? Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired May 11, 2015 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[00:07:30] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: We are getting new information on people in Texas. Ten people are still missing in Van, Texas this morning, just east of Dallas after a reported tornado left widespread devastation, you know, K-9 units will be sent out into search for them today. At least 26 others were injured. This deadly tornado outbreak is racking havoc on states from South Dakota to Texas this weekend. Over 70 tornadoes have been reported. In Arkansas, two people killed in fact after one storms there. In Iowa wild winds ripped the roof off of this high school.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: A vigil will be held today in Hattiesburg, Mississippi for the two police officers killed this weekend. 34-year-old Benjamin Deen and 25-year-oldly Liquori Tate were sought during a traffic stop Saturday night. Four suspects are in custody. Two facing capital murder charges a third is charged with accessory, a fourth with obstruction of justice all due in court today.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Journalist Seymour Hersh accusing the Obama administration of high level lying about how Osama Bin Laden was tracked down and killed in 2011. He says, the allegation is that Pakistan was holding Bin Laden prisoner. And the U.S. was tipped off by a former Pakistani intelligence officer on his whereabouts in exchange for $25 million.

Hersh says his source is an unnamed, retired, senior U.S. intelligence official. We're going to have Hersh on the show to talk about his claims coming up in a little bit. But right now, let's discuss this latest report and what's going on here in the fight against ISIS.

Right now, with Wisconsin Republican Senator Ron Johnson, he is the chairman of the Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental affairs, you're the right man to have this discussion. It's good to have you with us, welcome to News Day. Congratulations on your first grandkid, first of all, family first, a very special mother's day.

SEN. RON JOHNSON (R-WI), CHAIRMAN, COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS: I tell you what, you know, titles of husband, dad, grandpa, I mean, doesn't -- there is no greater titles than those. CUOMO: So it doesn't get any better than that. Obviously, now you

have a grandkid to worry about, a renewed sense of urgency about the jobs. Let's look back first, and then we'll deal with what we're dealing today in going forward, do you believe the U.S. government basically just lied about what happened with Osama Bin Laden?

JOHNSON: No, I'll tell you. One thing that I don't think is really guiding enough publicity is you know, I met a General Flynn who is a former head of the Defense Intelligence Agency. And you know, he is been kind of pushed out of office because he was complaining internally how this administration has shut down the analysis of the treasure trove of intelligence that was gained in that rate.

We only ask is about 10 percent for the reason that this administration shut down the analysis of it according to General Flynn is they didn't like the results. It wasn't confirming, their narrative that Al Qaeda was decimated on the run so General Flynn. We need to pay attention, I can't believe this hasn't gotten more publicity, said that this administration's foreign policy now is basically being predicated on willful ignorance. I mean, that's a serious charge from a very serious individual. So we need to pay attention to that but no I don't believe that. I mean, we saw pictures of the downed helicopters. There's too much corroborating testimony in terms of...

CUOMO: Too many people had to lie to question becomes why? What would have been the upside?

JOHNSON: Right. I mean, yes. I mean, I don't believe it.

CUOMO: You are taking it in a different direction. You're saying, Hersh is wrong because the truth is, something that's also bad for the administration. You are saying they haven't analyzed the data. And how would you prove that? How would you show that they've only analyzed 10 percent of it and they stopped for the narrative?

[00:07:35] JOHNSON: I talked to General Flynn getting out a new show. Understand his viewpoint and just take a look at President Obama. It was January, 2014, looking at ISIS, calling a JV team. I mean, there is a certain amount of delusion here in terms of just trying to deny the reality of what we're dealing with in this country.

CUOMO: Fair bushbuck, though, all you guys got ISIS wrong. I mean, we didn't see it coming, I mean even though it's all Saddam's old guys? You did kind of sleep on this threat until very recently.

JOHNSON: The president is a commander in chief. He runs the agencies, he runs the defense department. He is commander in chief of our military. It really falls on the administration.

CUOMO: You wind up getting into a mutuality responsibility. As you know, the AUMF, the Authorization for the Use of Military Force. You know, congress is sleeping on that, they don't want to do it because the political implications, at least that's suspected?

JOHNSON: I would say we are not you know, really debating it. What President Obama is asking for is an authorization weaker than the one he is using right now. I was pretty strong in those hearings, talking about, here is a real declaration of war. I read the declaration war against Japan, where we pledged every asset of this country to defeat Japan.

Now, I also point out how tenuous the authorization that this administration is using right now. But they're using it. They got the legal justification. It's a far stronger authorization than the one President Obama is asking for right now. And Chris from my standpoint, if we want to start defeating, you know, and protect this nation, keep a safe secure from let's say home grown extremists. We need to make sure that ISIS has actually defeated, that they're perceived as losing as opposed to right now because they are used as a social media. So winner's message. They're perceived as winning, as long as they are perceived as winning, they will continue to inspire the type of terrorist activity we saw in Texas just last Sunday.

CUOMO: Now, you've been out in front of this. You want the Iran deal to be treated as a treaty.

JOHNSON: Correct.

CUOMO: Which means, it needs two-thirds authorization of this senate to then become ratified by the president.

JOHNSON: What's the concept, we actually have the American people involved through their elected representatives affirmatively approving of any deal between Iran and the negotiating partners.

CUOMO: (inaudible) and is partner on the left voted it down.

JOHNSON: They were trying to preserve the underlying bill. Senator Corker understood this was the only bill that democrats and President Obama would support and again understand what a low threshold approval that is? I won't go through the entire details. Basically, 34 senators can approve this deal. It will get the rubber stamp of approval by congress.

CUOMO: Because they are treating as an executive order.

JOHNSON: An executive deal if I think it should be an executive right. Affirmatively approved by at least a majority of both houses.

CUOMO: But we couldn't get an amendment but if you look at that, you look at that situation, and you look at what's going on with the fawn debate on the use of force, really, you have to point, the old saying, you point a finger at him. Four fingers back at you. You won't even debate it. Fought you?

JOHNSON: But we did have a debate. In foreign last congress and this a problem that certainly Republicans have is that the authorization to produce military force President Obama is asking for from congress weakens his authority, weakens his power.

CUOMO: So then, we have but again we also know, we can count votes. We also realize that they're trying to pass something will not be possible.

JOHNSON: It's the criminal principle. You got to make that choice. I don't think we can pass something through the senate that President Obama is looking for right now. So from my standpoint, he is using this authorization. What I'm looking for from this president is a commitment. A commitment to achieve the goals he, himself, has stated. Degrade and ultimately defeat ISIS the sooner the better. I'm not seeing that commitment to the success of that goal.

CUOMO: What we see now is the risk is every bit as real and more so than we ever imagined. Now, it seems social media and congratulating those that do terrible things ISIS brand to be extended. So you are saying the threat couldn't be more real is what we are doing to stop it.

JOHNSON: And again the sooner we defeat them, we don't them the territory so we can close down this caliphate, the better off we are going to be in terms of denying them their ability to inspire action because it's going to be incredibly difficult for ISIS to say tear winning organization when the caliphate gets shut down. Again, we haven't committed the resources we need to actually defeat ISIS on the ground. We are seeing that ground to Iran. It's dangerous for the region. You see the new Saudi King snubbed the president because he's so concerned that this administration is not backing the allies in the region, instead, you do this deal with Iran, basically ceding power to Iran in the region.

CUOMO: That's one angle on it that's why the king isn't showing up to have a meeting with the president. One thing for sure, he won't be there with Arab leaders. Senator, thank you very much for joining with us. An important conversation to have. Alisyn.

[00:07:40] CAMEROTA: OK, Chris. Boston bomber, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, legal team, calling for testimony from an death penalty icon. Sister Helen Prejean was portrayed in the movie "Dead Man Walking," will she be allowed to testify in real life case?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: Dzhokhar Tsarnaev's life hanging in the balance the Boston bombers defense team is hoping perhaps for some spiritual intervention. Lawyers are hoping to call Sister Helen Prejean to the stand. She is the anti-death penalty nun that was depicted by Susan Sarandon in the 1995 film "Dead Man Walking" you might recall that. So the question becomes will the judge allow it and could she really sway jurors considering whether or not to put Tsarnaev to death?

Let's ask our analyst, HLN Legal analyst and Criminal Defense Attorney Joey Jackson and CNN commentator and legal analyst, Mel Robbins. Good to have you both here. Happy Monday the day after Mother's day, so let us talk about this. Mel, what's the concern about her testimony? Why is it causing so much controversy?

[00:07:45] MEL ROBBINS, CNN COMMENTATOR AND LEGAL ANALYST: Well, good morning, Michaela, good morning Joey. The reason why there is concern about this nun testifying is because in the language of a death penalty case, this jury is what we call death qualified and it means that all 12 members of this jury have taken an oath. And they say they are not quote, morally opposed to the death penalty, Michaela.

And that they could under the appropriate circumstances impose the death penalty. What the defense wants to do is to put this nun on the stand who has spent decades counseling death row inmates. She is morally opposed to the death penalty. And certainly what the prosecution is worried about, you have a jury that's death qualified who can impose the death penalty. And now you will going to put on a global celebrity who is the leading anti-death penalty advocate for my moral standpoint, no, no, no, Michaela.

PEREIRA: So, Joey, you take the morality out of it by selecting your jurors that are not morally opposed and then you bring in someone who speaks from a moral center. It was you, would you ask?

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, listen, as a defense attorney, this is a brilliant strategy, a brilliant move, good morning Michaela, good morning Mel. So, certainly you can't fault the defense for trying to do this. I think it's important to the case that they're having. But ultimately, there are things that this case is about and there are things that this case is not about. This case is not about a referendum on the appropriateness of the death penalty. The moralness of the death penalty.

PEREIRA: That's a discussion to have elsewhere. Not in this case.

JACKSON: Another day, another time, and in fact, they had that discussion during jury selection. When they decided...

PEREIRA: Right. So just them -- trying to do a work around that really?

JOHNSON: Here you go. Because during jury selection, you -- as Mel stated, you have a death penalty qualified jury. That's not to say that they are willing to impose the death penalty that's to say that onto the appropriate circumstance, they could do it. So if you have a nun saying, against it remember what the archbishop said, the bishop put out a letter in a statement saying, we're against the death penalty, he will be incarcerated regardless, he's away from society. So this could have much influence the jury. I don't see how its relevant, I don't see how the judge allows it.

PEREIRA: So Mel, let's say the judge doesn't allow it, what does it, how do you -- how does the prosecution counter the testimony of this sort of celebrity nun that is so morally against it?

ROBBINS: You know, it's a great question, Michael and I disagree with Joey. I do think they will allow it. One of the reasons why is the number one reason why death penalty cases are reversed is because of the death penalty phase and a failure to allow mitigating factors in. And while she will be restricted I suspect in speaking about her personal opinion, she could easily be qualified as an expert on death row conditions. She could be qualified as an expert on the death penalty, itself.

PEREIRA: OK. How do you counter the prosecution, Mel. What's your strategy against it?

ROBBINS: First of all, you will cross examination her and you can actually get led to admit like they did with the prison warden that was on last week and get her to admit that you know, not everybody that's convicted the death penalty get the death penalty. People that are on death row oftentimes, particularly under counseling finding sense of peace and are ultimately at peace when they get killed. And so you could have her if you cross examine her effectively, lower the horror show that a lot of jurors feel that the death penalty is by having her talk about in a very ironic sense her work counseling death row inmates, Michaela.

JACKSON: I think it's a fabulous point that Mel makes. You know, to some degree, she sways me if I'm presiding over the case, to perhaps allow her but to limit the testimony on the condition on death row et cetera.

PEREIRA: Is that precedent for this kind of thing?

JACKSON: Listen, they are having people testify for a mitigation piece but a nun, it seems to me. And there is a ruling that says, listen, it's not so much a ruling as the law, that says you can allow relevant testimony all day and all night. But if it leads to the confusion of the jury, that's another story. And in the event you have a judge allowing testimony from a person who spent their life saying this is morally wrong, in the event the judge limits the testimony, perhaps the condition of death row, I can see that. But under any other circumstance, Mel, I do not see this judge allowing this nun just to testify randomly about her being opposed to the death penalty. We should not apply it. And it shouldn't be applied here, I don't see it happening.

PEREIRA: Such an interesting development to be sure. Mel and Joey, thank you so much for joining us on this Monday.

JACKSON: Thank very much.

PEREIRA: And what's your take? Tweet us using the hash tag #NEWDAYCNN. You can also post your comments on Facebook.com/newday. Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: All right, Michaela. New data shows that there are more high paying jobs being created across the country. That's good news. What does it mean for the U.S. economy? Your business headlines next.

[00:07:50] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: It's time for CNN money now, Chief Business Correspondent Christine Romans mans is in our money center with good news for job seekers, we understand.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONENT: Hi guys, yes, a turning point for the economy. Higher paid jobs are now coming back. Most of the recovery the jobs were low wage, waitresses, bartenders, retail workers, but now strong growth in construction jobs, consulting, engineering, nursing, and other well paid positions. That Picasso painting could soon be the most expensive piece of art

sold. That will be auctioned at Christie's in New York today. That little doodle, guys, estimated to sell for $140 million. $140 million, a lesser known Picasso earlier this month sold for twice the price, so we'll see if maybe this would a record, could be a record week this week. In case you got a little extra pocket change there, guys.

CUOMO: Diversify your portfolio.

ROMANS: $140 million, yes, quite a portfolio.

CAMEROTA: Thanks, Christine.

CUOMO: That little doodle. Pablo would not be happy. So did the White House lie about the hunt for Osama Bin Laden and the raid that took him out? Journalist Seymour Hersh says, Yes. We will test his claims when he joins us on NEW DAY live ahead.

[00:07:55] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: A reported tornado this morning in Van, Texas. Officials say at least 26 people are injured.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I hear the howling.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I haven't seen anything like this in a long time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you do it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, sir, I didn't do it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Suspects are in custody and two police officers are dead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is my fate. I'm trying to come to grips with.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The United States has conducted an operation that killed Osama Bin Laden.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The headline is, that the story that you've heard is not true.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think that the nation has assessed no first lady ever had.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I had to ignore all of the noise and be true to myself.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota and Michaela Pereira. CUOMO: Good morning, welcome to NEW DAY. It is Monday, May 11th,

8:00 in the east, and we do begin with breaking news this morning. The sun rising on devastation in Texas, 10 people missing after reported tornado ravaged the City of Van, Texas, just east of Dallas. Search teams are using K-9 units now to find survivors.

CAMEROTA: The tornado outbreak hit from South Dakota to Texas this weekend and we have all the angles covered for you. So we begin with CNN's Meteorologist Jennifer Gray in hard hit Van, Texas. Now, it's daylight what are you seeing Jennifer?