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Temple University Gives Update on Those Injured in Train Derailment; Pentagon Searches Deep Web for ISIS Recruiters; Interview with Rep. Michael McCaul. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired May 13, 2015 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you give us a sense of what it was like inside the E.R. when it was a chaotic scene?

HERBERT CUSHING, CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER, TEMPLE UNIVERSITY HOSPITAL: It was busy, but it was not chaotic. Folks were coming in and we triaged them as they came in and took care of the sickest folks first. We had a medical and surgical side. On the medical side, most of the folks did well. Most of the injuries were not medical in nature. There were some people with chest pain who did just fine. Most of the issues were in the surgical and trauma side.

[07:00:14] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What's the status right now in general inside the hospital?

CUSHING: We're back to normal. Seeing patients. We kept seeing patients all through the event.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anything else about the sixth patient did pass away, what exactly did they die of, can you tell us?

CUSHING: Chest injury. Massive chest injury.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Anybody -- shock...

CUSHING: Well, there will be counselling for the families. Because a lot of them are from out of town. I took a fellow who was from Albania and was visiting here, talked to a fellow who was here from India, was planning to go back home on Friday. I talked to someone else who was here from Spain visiting family. So there were lots of people from all around the world. And they just happened to be here and on that train when it went down.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

CUSHING: Yes. There was a sixth victim who died here last night. I can't release the identity or the sex of the victim now, because the next of kin doesn't know yet.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are they from just the northeast part of the country or different areas of the country, Doctor, that you're aware of?

CUSHING: I can't say. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Talk to us about the level 3 mass casualty and

what standard operating procedure goes into effect in that first phone call and who does that come from?

CUSHING: The level 4 mass casualty is called by the incident commander on the scene who makes the call. Usually, it's the emergency department or the trauma team. And then that triggers all the folks coming in from home who aren't already here. Because it was nighttime. The daytime folks had gone home. Anyone that was leaving a shift we stopped and made sure that we didn't need them. And they stayed and helped out.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did it work as a well-oiled machine?

CUSHING: It worked splendidly. We really got everything done and all the folks triaged and off to the right places within a few hours. I wondered if there would be more people with extrications later. So we cleared out as much as we could, wondering if there might be more folks found later.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We were initially told 36 victims, and then it rose to 54. Did they all come in ahead of the midnight hour?

CUSHING: I don't know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you -- have you been in contact with the NTSB or OEM, people who are at the scene? Are we expecting any more patients roofing? Are they finding any others?

CUSHING: I'm not aware that they are. There were authorities here from a variety of agencies over the night. And we were in contact with the city of Philadelphia, police department, the fire department, and all the usual folks overnight.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're not aware of any other patients coming in?

CUSHING: I'm not aware of any more coming in. Good point.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

CUSHING: Fifty-four showed up here. We still had 25 in the hospital.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm Chris Cuomo.

Behind me is the scene of a horrific train crash in Philadelphia. An Amtrak train that was going from Washington, D.C., to New York City, derailed here outside Philadelphia. We do know now that six people have lost their lives; well over 100 were sent to the hospital.

We were just taking a press conference where we got new details about what happened overnight from one of the hospitals involved here. One of the fortunate things is that this crash did happen in a big city like Philadelphia, where they do have a lot of great trauma centers. And he did say that the death toll went up by one, from five to six.

It was a massive chest injury. The next of kin has not been identified yet. And that's a big factor here. The unknown.

There are hundreds of first responders on the scene right now. Many are still unaccounted for in wreckage that is almost impossible to describe. We'll be here in Philadelphia. Michaela and Alisyn are back in New York. And CNN has complete coverage this morning. We're going to tell you right now here's what happened overnight.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO (voice-over): A New York City-bound Amtrak passenger train from Washington, D.C., over 200 people onboard, derailing, rolling on its side on the tracks outside of Philadelphia. Seven cars in disarray, twisted and torn like tinfoil.

MAYOR MICHAEL NUTTER, PHILADELPHIA: It is an absolute disastrous mess. Never seen anything like this in my life.

CUOMO: At least five dead, over 100 hospitalized. Passengers described the horror as chairs and bags go flying in the air.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This huge red suitcase just came flying at me. Our train was actually on its side. There's many injured people on the train, and they're very, very upset.

CUOMO: This video shows rescues in progress. Those lucky enough to walk away in a state of shock.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I could see the blood on people's faces. They can't move. Luckily, like I'm still here, I'm still walking. I got really lucky.

CUOMO: First responders in the dark of night combing the area for injured and those unaccounted for.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've never seen anything so devastating. They're in pretty bad shape. You can see that they've completely, completely derailed from the track.

[07:05:04] CUOMO: Helicopters hover as rescuers sift through the wreckage. Why all this happened, still unclear. Amtrak is cooperating with the NTSB, which launched a go team to assist in the investigation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As I read about things or see this on news like, oh, a plane crashes, a train derails, but you never actually think it's going to happen to you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: Let's bring in Rene Marsh right now. You know, listening to that person at Temple University Hospital say that they lost someone else overnight, a massive chest injury. Most of the injuries were related to being thrown around inside the car. There's a lot of muscular skeletal injuries. That goes along with what we've been hearing from investigators.

But he also pointed to the unknown. That they don't expect more casualties to come in, but they said that there's a lot of unknown still going on here. What is the latest from the investigative side, Rene?

RENE MARSH, CNN AVIATION & GOVERNMENT REGULATION CORRESPONDENT: Well, I can tell you it's absolutely right to be cautious. I was just talking to one of the lieutenants here, and he kind of filled me in on what is going on behind the scenes there. They are still, now that they have the sunlight they are able to see. Of course, it was a different story 9:30 last night.

We know that earlier this morning an M.E.'s van left with two bodies, according to this officer. And he is waiting now for another medical examiner's body van to show up on the scene to remove even more bodies. So we don't know the timeframe of when that will happen. But his words to me is they could find more. But they don't know.

CUOMO: Part of that is because the nature of this wreckage. Part of it is because it happened overnight. And they weren't able to get a great assessment from the people who were on the train. They were guiding themselves around by their iPhones, largely alone, through the night making their way out of this. So investigators are playing catchup.

And the big question's going to be why. Speed is always an obvious indicator in a situation like this, but the investigators are saying go slow on the speed -- excuse the pun -- because just because there's a curve doesn't mean there was excessive speed. The trains can go in excess of 100 miles an hour. But this is a residential commercial area. And it wasn't that far from the station. And that's relevant also, yes?

MARSH: That is all relevant. So, you know, they're going to look at -- everything is on the table. We say that all the time whenever you see these investigations are in their infancy. So -- and that is the same case here. They will look at whether speed was a factor, but they will look at so many other things.

CUOMO: And they have the black box you were saying, right, just like a plane?

MARSH: Yes. The event recorders are on board this train. So that will have very critical information about how fast this train was going, what -- were the brakes applied, when were they applied. All of that information will be matched up against what the speed limit is in this particular area.

They'll even look at, you know, the crew, their schedule. What was their schedule the night before? Did they get enough sleep? What did they do the night before?

CUOMO: That wound up being a factor in that crash, that derailment we saw in New York not too long ago.

MARSH: Exactly.

CUOMO: So that's going to be relevant. We believe the motormen, the coach men, the conductor, they all survived -- that's the early word -- so that they can be interviewed about this.

There's going to be some bigger considerations here about the nature of the infrastructure. The tracks, of course, are destroyed. And there's going to be an indefinite stoppage in rail traffic for obvious reasons. There are no tracks. But people are already talking about the infrastructure and what equipment this train had. So we'll be following that along.

So, Rene, let me leave that part of it with you right now.

I want to go so Sara Sidner, because she's been very, very close to the crash scene all morning, and there's breaking news to tell you about on that front.

So Sara, let's bring you in. The big question here is why, and now we have some new clues to point to.

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we were standing on the tracks, but the police have told us that we now have to move from that area. The investigation is fully underway. Lots of investigators out there.

The gentleman from CSS International, which is a business right along the tracks, sort of over -- their cameras overlook the tracks, brought us in. They came and they saw us out there. And they want to show us what their cameras caught. It's hard to see, but I want you to zoom in. So Jay McMichael is going to zoom in so you can see a bit.

The train is going from left to right. You'll see a white flash going across your screen. And then you'll see the moment of impact. Let's go ahead and roll the video here. This is surveillance video from the top of the building that we're in now. CSS International overlooking where the train is. Give it a couple of seconds and all of a sudden, there, there, there. And it's done. So that was the moment of impact.

Whatever happened to that train, whatever caused that, you can see the immediate aftereffect of when the crash, when the train basically broke apart and started rolling off of the rails there.

And we've seen it in person. You've seen the pictures from the helicopters, as well, of the devastation left behind. Now six people have died. (AUDIO GAP) were saying that, you know, they got chills watching this, because they knew what their cameras had captured, Chris.

[07:10:02] CUOMO: What happened, the aftermath is obvious. The mystery is what's before.

Now, it's hard for us to read that video from where we are, Rene Marsh and I, here outside the scene. What do you see when you look at that? Are you able to capture anything clearly? Or is it going to have to be really picked apart by some forensic teams? SIDNER: Look, when you're looking at that, what you -- the thing that

you notice the most is that the train is going at full speed. I mean, you don't see it slowing down or anything like that there. It's just going. And we don't know how fast it's going. We don't know if that's a normal speed or not. But let's play it again for you. We're going to just back it up here. OK.

So it's at 35 -- at 9:22, and this is real time, 9:22:40. So let's pull it back just a bit again. Let's pull it back, yes. There we go. You'll start seeing it at 40 seconds after. There the train goes up here, you're seeing the cars going and it's full speed. I mean, it's going and then all of a sudden the flashes of light. One, two, three, four, five big flashes of light there.

And, again, this business is sitting here. The tracks down here. So, you know, what you're seeing there really is that there wasn't a scenario where it looked like it was slowing down for something or perhaps maybe there was something in the tracks. We just don't know at this time. But man, horrible, horrible scene, the aftermath of what we just saw there.

CUOMO: That's going to be very valuable for investigators, as well. But you know, it's still an ongoing -- Sara, thank you very much. We'll come back to you in a little bit.

This is still an ongoing situation. There are hundreds of first responders just behind us dealing with going through this twisted wreckage. We still have not heard from officials that everybody has been accounted for. There were some 243 passengers and crew onboard.

And it is important to note, Mick, as I go back to you in New York, this isn't the first time there's been a tragedy here of a derailment. In the 1940s there was one, and 79 people died. And in that one, it wound up being that something underneath one of the cars exploded, and that caused that crash. So often it's more than just what meets the eye. And we'll get answers for you as we get them from authorities here, Michaela.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: So many people are going to want answers. What's really truly amazing is that people were able to walk away from that. Evidenced by the two people who join me here in studio, Chris. Jeremy Wladis and Janna D'Ambrisi were on that train during that derailment. They join us this morning to tell us about their experience.

First of all, how are you both? Jeremy, we know you're a good friend of Chris's. He's been in contact with you. You both look well. How are you feeling?

JEREMY WLADIS, PASSENGER ON DERAILED TRAIN: Just a little shaken up. I feel lucky, you know.

PEREIRA: Battered and bruises?

WLADIS: Like the luckiest guy alive. So battered, you know, shaken, a little bruised but really lucky. PEREIRA: Janna, how about you? You look fit as a fiddle.

JANNA D'AMBRISI, PASSENGER ON DERAILED TRAIN: I feel fine. My neck's bothering me a little bit from being bumped around. But just mainly tired at this point.

PEREIRA: Let's talk about this horrific thing that you've been through. You were in the second to last car, correct, Janna?

D'AMBRISI: Yes.

PEREIRA: You take this train a fair amount, regular ride?

D'AMBRISI: I don't take the train regularly. I've taken Amtrak to and from D.C. before. But I was in D.C. for a work conference. I was sitting on the right side of the car in the aisle seat. And it felt like we sped up a little bit at first as if we were almost going around a curve.

PEREIRA: To the point that you noticed it, that it sped up.

D'AMBRISI: A little bit. We were speculating in the car, though, it may have been the whiplash from the first cars already derailing off of the track. And we were feeling the speed up of that. Who knows?

But we felt a jolt. Immediately, I could tell the train derailed. We were to the right of the rails. And I was thrown against the girl next to me, against the window. And people from the other side of the aisle started falling on top of us. So somebody's leg hit the side of my head. The rest of her body must have been in the luggage rack.

PEREIRA: And it happened as a jolt. It happened pretty quickly.

D'AMBRISI: It happened pretty quickly. And I just held onto this leg. And the girl next to me and ducked my head and was just praying, please stop, please stop, because we still had forward momentum. The train started to tip to the right this way. And I was just hoping we weren't going to flip or end up on our side. I thought the windows might break and glass might enter the picture. But luckily, we didn't fall all the way over.

And then there was a moment of stillness, I imagine, while everybody sort of figured out what was going on.

Jeremy, I know Chris wants to ask you about what happened to you. Chris, why don't you join in the conversation?

CUOMO: Jay, obviously, I was so happy to hear from you and that you were OK when you told me you were on the train. But you're a tough guy. What I was worried about is the wife and the kids at home. Is everybody all right with what happened to you? Is everybody calmed down now?

WLADIS: Yes, my wife said she didn't know about it. I called her up. I said I'm OK. She said OK. She went to sleep. I don't think she understood the magnitude of what was going on. But, yes, everybody's great.

[07:15:13] CUOMO: Well, I know she's a big watcher of NEW DAY, so she's going to know now, Jay. But I mean, I know that's what you were concerned about. I know that's what went through your head and your heart in a moment like that, is your family.

WLADIS: Exactly.

CUOMO: You know I love you, brother, and I'm happy that -- I'm happy that you're OK. But it's good to put your wife and kids at rest.

WLADIS: Thank you.

CUOMO: Let's put their minds at ease. So I'm glad you're OK, buddy.

WLADIS: Thank you.

PEREIRA: So, Jeremy, in terms of what happened to you, you were in a different car and you were sitting by the window. What was your experience?

WLADIS: Well, I was actually sitting in the seat one over from the window on the right side.

PEREIRA: OK.

WLADIS: Or the east side of the train. And, you know, it just -- I was talking to my friend, who was in -- separated by the aisle. He was on the other side, Daniel. We were in conversation, and I was eating, which I do a lot because of the crazy business I'm in. And we were talking, and the train just started to shake. And then, I mean, it happened so fast yet slow enough where, you know, things started flying. Phones...

PEREIRA: You couldn't even brace yourself, really, could you?

WLADIS: At one point I did brace myself like this, holding onto the seat and keeping my head ducked low, because the train started to roll this way. And things were -- cell phones were flying, laptops were flying. I didn't even see these two women were catapulted up into the luggage rack. Because when it finally stopped, I looked up, and there was a guy who was like almost on top of me, and the seat had turned this way. And I was kind of wedged in there. And I looked up, and there was a woman -- there were two women up in the luggage rack. I didn't know if they were, like, looking for luggage, but they had been catapulted in there.

PEREIRA: How were you able to get out of your car?

WLADIS: I was lucky. I just was able to get up and walk sideways to get out.

PEREIRA: And how about you, Janna?

D'AMBRISI: We were told to wait at first, because...

PEREIRA: By who? Were the first responders already on the train?

D'AMBRISI: No, they weren't. I guess they were just some passenger who stepped up. Actually, somebody in the last car identified themselves as a police officer, Mike. And we weren't sure if it was safe to go out on the rails, voltage or downed wires. So everyone was kind of hanging tight for a little bit until I saw a flashlight, and I think there was a crew member telling us to head towards the back of the train. And that's how we got out.

PEREIRA: And then once you were out, I'm assuming it would have been chaos on the ground, trying to separate those that were critically injured, those that were injured. The two of you probably trying to assess if you were hurt or not. Was there -- was there instruction from anyone?

WLADIS: No. It was -- it was just complete chaos. So I was one of the first people to walk off the train, because I was in the last car. And that car, we were able to open up and get out. And once I got out, you know, I immediately looked up. And I went up to the -- I could see up ahead there were other cars that were in worse shape or looked like they were in worse shape. So I went to go help people.

And there was -- by this time there was a guy or two that said, "No, no, go back and help people off the train." So I went back to help people off the train. And there was an Asian -- an older Asian man who was blind who we helped get him situated.

But it was just chaos. Everybody was -- everybody was so helpful and friendly and trying to do their best. It was kind of like we all became family.

PEREIRA: Just trying to lend a hand.

And then I understand once you were out, you didn't really know what to do and you ultimately -- you guys got an Uber back to New York City. A group of you did?

D'AMBRISI: Hours later.

PEREIRA: Hours later. How many -- what time do you think that you were able to leave?

D'AMBRISI: I know we were at the Webster School at 11:30.

PEREIRA: Is that where they had evacuated you to?

D'AMBRISI: Eventually. After waiting around by the police cars and ambulances. We didn't know what to do. We didn't know where to go. I was thinking as long as I stay here, I'm safe. And actually, probably irrationally, I was thinking Amtrak will find a way of getting us home. They'll send buses.

PEREIRA: Did they identify you as passengers? Were you marked? Were you given some sort of identification so they knew who were, you know, people from the neighborhood and who people were from...

WLADIS: They kind of grouped us, corralled us. And they kept saying, OK, "This is going to the hospital. Who's injured? Who wants to go?"

You know, they were doing their best.

PEREIRA: They were doing their best.

WLADIS: You don't know what to do with a couple hundred people, and then there were just tons of people in the neighborhood who were all standing all over. And those people -- and it was a poor neighborhood, and those people were just so nice. And they started getting cases of bottles of water and passing them out and asking, you know, "What can we do to help you? Come in my house if you need to use the bathroom." You know?

PEREIRA: Man helping man. I love seeing that.

WLADIS: Yes. It was wonderful.

PEREIRA: Shocking to see. It's probably upsetting to see that. and I'm going to get back out to Chris. You see the train now. Is it amazing to you that so many of you walked away unscathed?

[07:20:06] D'AMBRISI: We are so lucky is all I can think. We're so lucky. We didn't know what the front of the train looked like, because one of the cars was perpendicular to the track. So we couldn't see beyond that in front of us.

PEREIRA: I don't know you're both thanking your lucky stars.

Chris, I know you are grateful that your friend is OK. And I'm telling you, I'm standing here. He's shaken a little bit, but he looks -- he looks hale and hardy otherwise.

CUOMO: Well, I'll tell you, there's so many families and friends out there right now who are thankful to have people back home. It is not easy to hear Jeremy talk about what he survived. And that young woman survived on that train. And luckily so many others did, as well.

But you know, Jeremy, you better make sure you're telling everybody -- and this is a message for everybody who made it off that train -- that you're OK, because my phone is blowing up with all our friends asking me if I know that you're on CNN right now and that you were in the train crash. So make sure that everybody knows you're OK.

And you too, young lady. Make sure that everyone who you know knows you're OK so that they don't go through an anxiety of wondering what happened. And it's good to see that you're both all right for yourselves and your families.

D'AMBRISI: Thank you.

WLADIS: Thanks, Chris.

PEREIRA: Janna D'Ambrisi and Jeremy Wladis, thanks so much for joining us here at NEW DAY.

WLADIS: Thank you. PEREIRA: OK.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: We will get back to all that breaking news in a moment, but we have another developing story to tell you about, because an intense search is underway for a missing U.S. military helicopter in Nepal.

Six U.S. Marines and two Nepalese service members were onboard delivering humanitarian aid following that powerful earthquake in the region on Tuesday, killing at least 94 people and injuring 1,100 more.

Radio transmissions indicate some type of fuel problem onboard. The U.S. government is still hopeful the aircraft did not crash. But at this point, that is unclear.

PEREIRA: We have some breaking news out of Pakistan. Police now say six gunmen on motorcycles opened fire on a bus in Karachi, killing 42, wounding at least 20 others. That bus was carrying men, women and children from a Shiite sect that is often persecuted by extremists. A splinter group of the Pakistani Taliban has claimed responsibility for that attack.

CAMEROTA: North Korea publicly executed its defense minister. This is according to spies in South Korea. They say the official was shot to death at a military school in Pyongyang while hundreds of people watched. He was allegedly executed in April after falling asleep during a meeting with leader Kim Jong-un. And he apparently did not follow his orders on several occasions.

PEREIRA: All right. We're going to head back to Chris in Philadelphia for the latest on the train derailment, but first the hunt for ISIS on the secret Internet, as the Pentagon takes direct aim at ISIS's key recruiting tool. We'll take a closer look at that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:21:22] CAMEROTA: We are following breaking news this morning. A train derailment in Philadelphia has killed six people and sent 146 others to the hospital.

Let's bring in Congressman Mike McCaul. He's the chairman of the House Committee on Homeland Security.

Congressman, thanks so much for being on NEW DAY this morning.

REP. MIKE MCCAUL (R-TX), CHAIRMAN, HOMELAND SECURITY COMMITTEE: Thanks, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Let's start with the train derailment. This is -- I was stunned to read, this is at least the ninth, possibly tenth, Amtrak derailment this year alone. Amtrak derailments have been increasing in recent years. Is Congress looking into what's going on?

MCCAUL: Yes, of course. And, you know, my jurisdiction is more from a terrorist standpoint. All indicators are at this point in time this was not a terrorist attack, although I will tell you that al Qaeda is intent on hitting subway trains and trains themselves, as they did in Spain, the U.K. and then the Zazi (ph) case in New York.

So we're always -- we're always looking at the vulnerabilities that may be in place and what are the security measures that are put in place with respect to trains.

Very different from airline passengers in terms of the screening. It's more risk based, more intelligence based and canine based to sniff for bombs. I think in this case you had an accident. And Congress will be providing oversight to determine how we can better fix this tragic situation.

CAMEROTA: But, Congressman, is it time to change the security on trains? Why can you get on and off trains so easily without screenings?

MCCAUL: Well, again, there's so many people. The cost would be so high. But I think it is something we need to examine because of the vulnerability. The canines can only screen so much. The security can only screen so much. It's very based on passenger awareness and vigilance. If you see something, say something. Whereas in airports it's 100 percent screening. So there is a difference.

CAMEROTA: All right, Congressman, we brought you on to talk about what's going on with ISIS. You, of course, are the co-chair of the congressional cybersecurity caucus. And ISIS -- we've been talking about this a lot in the past couple days because of how deft ISIS has become at using the Internet. What are you seeing that worries you the most?

MCCAUL: Well, you know, this is a very different phenomenon from bin Laden who operated with couriers out of caves.

We're dealing with an enemy now, ISIS, that has a very sophisticated social media program, that can send out call to arms, if you will, over the Internet, directing people in the United States to activate.

I've been studying foreign fighters coming out of Syria and Iraq through Turkey, western Europe and the United States. But through the Internet they can activate ISIS followers through a tweet, which is what we saw in the Texas case of two ISIS followers who were activated to conduct a terrorist attack there.

This is very hard to stop. And it's very much a concern to the department and the Justice Department in terms of how can we better be equipped to stop? It can happen so fast, as well. And radicalization from within...

CAMEROTA: Yes.

MCCAUL: ... is something we need. The administration needs to put more attention and focus on this.

CAMEROTA: I mean, we saw that in the Garland attack. But I also want to ask you about a fascinating report that our Barbara Starr has on CNN.com right now. Everyone should go and read it. About how officials like you are having to deal with this sort of underbelly of the Internet, a place called the dark Web. It's a place that can't be searched via Google. What does that place look like?

MCCAUL: Well, that place is where they hide. There's -- because of encryption, we can't gain any access to potential ISIS followers here in the United States, the enemy within. It's what, I think, Director James Comey talked about. You know, we're trying to find needles in the haystack, and the needles are going dark; and it's because of this encryption phenomenon that we can't track their movements.