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New Day

ISIS Takes Over Ancient Syrian City, Makes Advances in Iraq; Is U.S. Strategy in Iraq Working?; Sen. Rand Paul Rails Against NSA in 'Filibuster'; Report: Murder Suspect Identified by DNA on Pizza Crust; Letterman Signs Off after 33 Years of Laughs. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired May 21, 2015 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ISIS now fully in control of the ancient city of Palmyra.

[05:58:58] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let's hope that this wonderful monument will not be destroyed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now it is at the mercy of ISIS.

SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I will not let the Patriot Act go unchallenged.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Rand Paul ending a 10-and-a-half-hour filibuster on the Senate floor just before midnight.

PAUL: Thank you, Mr. President, and I relinquish the floor.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: New developments in the quadruple murder mystery that has shaken an upscale neighborhood in Washington, D.C.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police have identified one suspect.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The break in the case came from DNA on the crust of a pizza.

DAVID LETTERMAN, HOST, CBS'S "THE LATE SHOW WITH DAVID LETTERMAN": For the last time on the television program, thank you and good night.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota and Michaela Pereira.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, welcome to your NEW DAY. it's Thursday, May 21, 6 a.m. in the east. And we do begin with breaking news.

First it was Iraq, now in Syria ISIS militants capturing a strategically important city. This target is Palmyra. The added concern here human but also historical. This is a centuries' old site, and the fear is ISIS will destroy artifacts, as it has in the past.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: This as the debate here at home intensifies about the U.S. strategy to fight ISIS. And some GOP presidential hopefuls say it's time to send ground troops.

We have this story covered the only way CNN can. Let's begin with senior international correspondent Nick Paton Walsh. He's just back from Syria. He joins us live from Beirut. Tell us what you saw, Nick.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn, quite devastating, potentially, the impact on the world's history if ISIS do what they've done in so many previous places in Iraq and destroy the artifacts in Palmyra.

We are talking about ruins that have survived since the 1st Century. Palmyra itself named after the date palms that used to grow there, still do in fact, in the oasis. Back then, it became a trade hub between the Roman empires and remnants of Persian societies there, as well. Quite stunning to behold, those ruins. They may not be there if ISIS do what they've done in the past.

But there has been substantial brutality (ph). There is now a very modern human crisis emerging there. A hundred regime soldiers killed overnight as ISIS swept in, taking the airport there, a prison and an intelligence headquarters, we're told. Unclear the fate of the prisoners. Potentially, they've been killed. There have been reports of executions in the streets there, as well.

Potentially 100,000 people in that city. A long-telegraphed capacity for ISIS to move in, but it seems the regime have pulled back. It's a vital moment there, Alisyn, because this is the first time that ISIS, who haven't really messed with the Syrian regime for quite some time, focusing instead on other rebels, the first time they've moved against the regime population center. And this does potentially give them a straight highway move towards the Syrian capital, Damascus, run by the regime. A troubling development, indeed, ISIS still having that momentum -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Yes, this is a vital moment, as you say, Nick. Thanks so much. We'll check back in with you.

Across the border in Iraq, ISIS still destroying ancient artifacts there. Senior international correspondent Arwa Damon joins us with the latest live from Baghdad.

Good morning, Arwa.

ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn.

And that is why the concern for Palmyra is so sharp, because of exactly what we saw ISIS do when it took over a series of ancient sites here in Iraq, showing complete disregard for the value that they hold for civilization, for humanity's history. Now ISIS not just taking over Palmyra but, as we have been

reporting, also making strategic significant gains in al Anbar province with the capture of Ramadi.

As it currently stands, the main front lines are located around an area called Habbaniyah. That is where there is a military base. Habbaniyah is located right between Ramadi and Fallujah, both under ISIS control.

We spoke to an army commander in Habbaniyah. He said that they were beefing up their positions in the various towns towards Ramadi to ensure that ISIS can't advance from Ramadi to Baghdad, but they were still waiting for more reinforcements, for additional paramilitary Shia fighters. Those Shia fighters that are, yet, backed by Iran, controversial but highly effective. Also waiting for the campaign to arm the Sunni tribes to begin.

We additionally spoke to the deputy governor of al Anbar province, who said that at this stage at least the Iraqi government is taking Anbar seriously. He had been warning of the fall of Ramadi for months. He said now the government is beginning to take action, not necessarily because it's worried for Anbar, but because if those other areas in Anbar fall to ISIS, that means that the terrorist organization would be at Baghdad's doorstep, Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Arwa, thank you very much for the reporting and the analysis.

Let's bring in now General Stanley McChrystal. He's the former commander of the joint Special Operations Command and commander of international security forces in Afghanistan. He's also the author of the new book "Team of Teams: New Rules of Engagement for a Complex World."

Now, this book is very valuable, because it sets up as a reminder of how the U.S. found success in Iraq and Afghanistan and at the same time a nod to what we may have to do differently right now.

So General, it's great to have you on NEW DAY. Thanks for being with us.

As we see the situation as its move -- evolving or devolving, depending on how you want to look at it, there's a renewed call for boots on the ground. Governor Pataki, the former governor of New York, said it yesterday. It's getting echoed by Lindsey Graham and others. Do you think it's time for a strategy shift?

GEN. STANLEY MCCHRYSTAL, AUTHOR, "TEAM OF TEAMS": Well, I think it's time to have a clearly-articulated strategy. I'm not sure most Americans or people in the world are exactly sure what our strategy is, which means you have to define it in state.

But then the wider issue is who's fighting against ISIS. You say, well, we are. Now wait a minute. You say Bashar al-Assad is fighting against them. Obviously, the Iranians are helping, the government of Iraq, Shia militia. The United States is helping. Some of the Persian Gulf countries are helping, but it's a group of people. Napoleon was quoted as saying, when asked who he'd most like to fight, what opponent, he said a coalition. We're not really a team on this. We're not a team of teams, for sure.

[06:05:02] CUOMO: It's not to be oversimplified. When you say a team of teams, you're talking about an organization in which the relationships between constituent teams resemble those individuals on a single team. Explain that. It's like the fingers of the hand made into a fist, right?

MCCHRYSTAL: Exactly. We all know the story of the 2004 men's Olympic basketball team. Best basketball players in the world, a bronze medal outcome. And so if you don't really have common purpose and trust within a small team, you can't get there.

But when you try to scale a team, particularly when you're putting national efforts and opposition groups and all, you're breaking down silence across cultural lines, across different equities, fears, personalities, which is really hard, but it's essential.

CUOMO: So you also say in the book, page 32, "To win we had to change." Now, is that being misapplied in this idea of let's put the best fighters in the world, the U.S. men and women, the fighting men and women on the ground. Let's have them take out the camps. Let's have them do strategic attacks. Let's get on the ground and win the battle where it needs to be won. Is that oversimplifying?

MCCHRYSTAL: I think it is. I think what we're saying is we're going to bring in experts and do this, but it's like building a house. If you bring the greatest plumber in the world and the greatest electrician and the greatest carpenter, but if they're not operating on a single blueprint, you're not going to get the right house you want. I think that's the challenge here.

CUOMO: The -- some of the treasure-trove of the attack that wound up taking down Osama bin Laden is his insistence, Osama bin Laden's, of saying "Stop with this 'We want a state.' Try to crush our main enemy's power, attack the embassies in North Africa." But they're not doing that. ISIS is obviously not following the advice of, you know, the great bad guy who's now gone. What does that tell you?

MCCHRYSTAL: To be honest, I'm not sure what it tells us, because we always expected al Qaeda writ large and now ISIS to go after things which would psychologically affect us. Now to a degree they are. They take Ramadi. But those kinds of attacks around the world that just strike our nerves, they haven't done near as much of that as we've ever expected and, frankly, I'm not sure we know why.

CUOMO: So now there's a big political debate going on here. And the candidates getting tripped up by would you go to Iraq? Should you not have gone to Iraq? That's politics.

But this analysis of why we are where we are, when you look at the last six years and the strong American desire, which is followed through by government, to get out of Iraq, how big a part of the problem do you see that move as?

MCCHRYSTAL: Well, I think it's certainly part of the problem. But I'm not worried about assigning blame to anybody, how we got there, where we are now.

The key thing is it's the minds of the Iraqis and people in the region. What we have done puts thoughts in those minds, and they act on those thoughts.

Afghans were always worried that America was going to leave, because we left in 1989. I think the Iraqis, after we left in 2010, now have grave doubts about it. And that affects their behavior. Look at how the Saudis are behaving now.

So establishing our credibility over time is essential.

CUOMO: Now, when you look at the situation, one of the surprising things in the book is that to me and to many of us covering it, it's like I don't know what you're going to do here. You see a pretty clear through line of what needs to be done. And you see the situation right now as fairly manageable if done the right way. What needs to be done?

MCCHRYSTAL: Well, I do think it's manageable if done the right way. But I didn't say it was easy. Because building a team of the different gulf states, of Syria, of Iraq and all the different stakeholders in this is going to be hard. It takes a broad view, and it's going to take a lot of work. Diplomatic work, military work, but I think that's essential.

I don't think you can get there until you form some kind of effective coalition with an agreed-upon strategic framework, which is a diplomatic framework. Some kind of outcome. Where are we trying to get to? If ISIS disappears tomorrow, what do we want the region to look like? And we won't dictate it. That's going to be worked out with all the players.

CUOMO: Now, one of the lessons that you pull out through the book is about how -- and again, it's not just pushing the book. It's that this is how we got to a position of what was deemed success. Is you said, all right, they keep changing. They don't change in a way that makes sense conventionally. It's almost that they change through experience in the moment. What did that tell you? And what was the remedy?

MCCHRYSTAL: Yes. If you look at it, ISIS is the same way. Al Qaeda was not this centrally controlled brilliant entity. It was this constantly adapting network of associations. That allowed them to just be almost completely adaptable to any area responding whatnot. It also defied the ability to go after one or two key leaders or strategic notes and have them collapse.

What that tells me is we're in a complex world where traditional almost mechanical approaches to something march your armies forward on a map and take terrain is no longer applicable. You've got to have this organically adaptable approach to things. CUOMO: Do you believe there is the resolve on the part of these

people who are fundamental aspects of a successful coalition to do what they would need to do to win? Do they care enough about anything outside their own borders? Do they feel as strongly about extremism as they would need to to have this kind of existential battle?

MCCHRYSTAL: See, that's a great question, because right now this is asymmetric warfare, but it's asymmetric commitment by ISIS. Nobody else has been as committed. And so we are going to have to raise that level of resolve for all the players. And until we do that somebody like ISIS, who really is focused on what they want very narrowly, is going to have a big advantage.

[06:10:15] CUOMO: I mean, a lot of guys, you know, in your branch of the world say we saw what happened with Jordan. That's the way this part of the world is. Unless you come and punch them in the nose, and they feel that there may be another punch coming and they have to stand up for themselves, they don't go fight other people's fights. Is that the reality?

MCCHRYSTAL: I think there's a lot of reality to that. I think people are happy to step back and what happened somewhere else as long as it doesn't affect them. I think even America runs into that, as well. There's a desire, it's over there. But the world's changed. Nothing is very far away anymore. So I think we've got to take a much more broad view.

CUOMO: Now, I think it's fair criticism that when we have a big move like Ramadi, the media can give it a little bit more juice in terms of what it means. But when you look at it, what do you see as a timeframe of how long this will take and how we should see swings like what we're seeing right now?

MCCHRYSTAL: Yes. It's -- this is new. This is a little different, but remember al Qaeda, we fought them for six or eight years to actually beat them down. I think ISIS is going to take quite a long time.

When they control terrain like they do Ramadi, two things happen. One, they get control, and they've got the opportunity to wipe out the people who are in opposition to them. We talk about the awakening that happened in 2007. There was an earlier awakening that al Qaeda slapped down and killed a bunch of people. And that made the Sunni leaders in the region very, very skittish. That's going to happen again here.

And so it's going to tamp down the idea or some of the enthusiasm for people in the region to support their own government. So that's a danger.

I think the other thing, though, is when you have a psychological blow like Ramadi two things happen. One, the government of Iraq and the whole world has sort of shuddered, and now we begin to wonder if ISIS is beatable. Sure they are. It may also like a spring compress people and give a bit more resolve. Finally, we've got to get very serious. And I think that's the hopeful outcome. CUOMO: And you're saying until that coalition is in place don't

be so quick to throw U.S. troops in there. That's not the quick remedy.

General McChrystal, good luck with the book. Thank you for the lessons in it, and thanks for being on NEW DAY.

MCCHRYSTAL: Chris, thank you. Appreciate it.

CUOMO: Mick.

PEREIRA: All right, Chris. Breaking overnight, Senator Rand Paul yielding the floor after a more than ten-hour plea to reign in the NSA, urging his colleagues not to renew key portions of the Patriot Act set to expire June 1.

Congress also up against a deadline on other key legislation. Legislatures -- legislators, pardon me, go on holiday recess this afternoon.

Our chief congressional correspondent, Dana Bash, brings us all of this from Washington. In fact, with Rand Paul they're talking about filibuster in quotes, right, Dana?

DANA BUSH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Well, regardless, what's technically, he certainly made a splash his calling card in the Senate and now on the Republican presidential campaign trail has been this issue. What makes him different than every other Republican candidate is his staunch opposition to the NSA surveillance program. So with the law governing these secret wiretapping program set to expire, as you said, June 1, he seized the spotlight by taking the Senate floor.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL: There comes a time in the history of nations when fear and complacency allow power to accumulate and liberty and privacy to suffer. That time is now. And I will not let the Patriot Act, the most unpatriotic of acts, go unchallenged.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Now, Rand Paul's presidential campaign was not shy about using this as a significant tool. They were raising money off of it. And they used it to energize their base and supporters on social media. People were posting pictures of themselves up against TV screens or watching with iPads with Paul talking on the floor.

Now, his office is boasting about the fact that he successfully delayed this wiretapping perhaps until the weekend. That's still to be determined.

Meanwhile, Alisyn, there's a whole other very important issue that we're going to see on the Senate floor later today, a top priority for President Obama. And that is trade. There's going to be a key vote on whether they can move forward on the trade Bill. He, of course, says it's critical to helping him make deals that he says will help the U.S. economy. But it could very well be blocked by members of his own party who argue the opposite, that free trade hurts American workers.

CAMEROTA: So interesting to see in both of these issues people crossing party lines.

BASH: Absolutely.

CAMEROTA: Strange bedfellows. Dana, thanks so much for that.

Well, a major break in the case in that murder mystery of a wealthy Washington, D.C., family. New clues leading authorities to identify a suspect who remains at large this morning, all thanks to DNA left on pizza inside the home.

CNN's Joe Johns is there with the very latest. What are we learning, Joe?

JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn, the details just keep getting worse in this grisly crime just walking distance from the vice president's house.

And now authorities are looking for a 34-year-old man with a long record of mostly petty crimes. Only this time the charge is murder.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[06:15:14] JOHNS (voice-over): A bizarre twist in the brutal quadruple murder-arson mystery in an upscale D.C. neighborhood. Police identifying a suspect in the slayings of a prominent CEO, his wife, their young son and housekeeper, 34-year-old Darin Dylon Wint now wanted on first-degree murder charges while armed.

According to law enforcement officials, the break in the case coming not from the grainy surveillance video released by police days ago, but according to "The Washington Post," from DNA found on the crust of a Domino's pizza that had been ordered to the house as the victims were being held.

Forty-six-year-old Savvas Savopoulos, a CEO of a company called American Iron Works; his 47-year-old wife Amy, a Washington philanthropist and socialite; their 10-year-old son Phillip; and a woman named Veralicia Figueroa, their 57-year-old housekeeper, all found dead in their mansion that was set on fire.

Their blue Porsche that went missing found ditched in a Maryland church parking lot, where it was torched.

More lurid details of their gruesome murder is now emerging. A source telling CNN the victims were bound with duct tape and held captive by the perpetrators, with signs of torture to the youngest victim.

Meanwhile, "The Washington Post" reporting that one of Savopoulos' employees came to the mansion and dropped off a package with $40,000 inside, the assailant making off with the cash.

The case riddling investigators. Hours before the Savopoulos home was torched, one of the family's other housekeepers received a bizarre text from Amy Savopoulos, reading in part, "I am making sure you do not come today."

No motive for the killings has been released, but police believe money was a prime factor.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNS: Police are asking for the public's help in locating the suspect. They did search his last known address last night -- Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Joe, thank you for bringing us the latest. We're going to stay on that for sure.

We also have a CNN exclusive for you this morning. We were the only network allowed to ride along as a U.S. surveillance plane overflew Chinese outposts in the contested South China Sea. The Chinese navy ordered the plane out of the area eight times in English to avoid a, quote, "misunderstanding."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Foreign military aircraft, this is Chinese navy. You are approaching our military alert zone. Leave immediately.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: That bit of drama is not the headline. What matters here is that China is building thousands of acres of manmade islands in the South China Sea, complete with helipads and fortifications.

You're looking at CNN's Jim Sciutto right there. He was on the flight where this took place. We're going to have his insight in the next hour.

CAMEROTA: Intense.

Well, investigators are still combing through the cell-phone records of that engineer of the doomed Amtrak train. They're trying to match timestamps on Brandon Bostian's phone with other data sources like cell-phone towers and surveillance video.

Records show that calls were made and text messages were sent from the phone that day of the deadly derailment, but it remains unclear if he was on the phone during the accident.

PEREIRA: Well, folks, it's a wrap. David Letterman signing off for the last time after 33 years, more than 6,000 shows on late night. His last late-night show was filled with highlights of a legendary career, and a bevy of stars gathered to deliver one final top ten list.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LETTERMAN: And 6,028 shows, and he ran the numbers; and he said it works out to about eight minutes of laughter.

PEREIRA: David Letterman's final sendoff full of the iconic funnyman's self-deprecating humor and all-star guests.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our long national nightmare is over.

PEREIRA: The show's beginning, patriotic, with U.S. presidents past and present ushering Letterman into retirement.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Letterman is retiring.

LETTERMAN: You're just kidding, right?

PEREIRA: The late-night legend walking on stage one last time to a fitting three-minute standing ovation from a packed Ed Sullivan Theater.

Then the final all-star top ten.

LETTERMAN: It's our friends here at "The Late Show."

PEREIRA: "Top Ten Things I've Always Wanted to Say to Dave." Everyone from Jerry Seinfeld...

JERRY SEINFELD, COMEDIAN: Dave, I have no idea what I'll do when you go off the air. You know, I just thought of something. I'll be fine.

PEREIRA: ... to Bill Murray.

BILL MURRAY, COMEDIAN: Dave, I'll never have the money I owe you.

LETTERMAN: Oh, no.

I can't tell you how flattering, embarrassing and gratifying it has all been.

PEREIRA: Later, a dedication to his staff. Saving his musical sidekick, Paul Shaffer, for last.

[06:20:04] LETTERMAN: As good a friend as you can have on television, as good a friend as you can have in life, absolutely a musical genius, Paul Shaffer.

PAUL SHAFFER, MUSICAL DIRECTOR, CBS' "THE LATE SHOW WITH DAVID LETTERMAN": Thank you so much, Dave. You changed our lives.

PEREIRA: Letterman's final musical guest, The Foo fighters, performing Dave's favorite, "Everlong," playing over a montage of the past shows since 1982. The band sang the lyrics, "If everything could ever feel this real forever, if anything could ever be this good again."

LETTERMAN: The only thing I have left to do for the last time on a television program, thank you and good night.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PEREIRA: By the way, Letterman's final late show ran some 17 minutes over. Of course, his replacement, Stephen Colbert, launches his show September 8.

I would argue that that final montage with -- with Foo Fighters was the best I've ever seen. Like that was electric. It was emotional. And I also thought it was more emotional than we might have anticipated. Dave-style obviously.

CAMEROTA: So poignant. You know, always interesting to be a guest at your own funeral. And I mean, he got that opportunity to see how much people have appreciated him.

PEREIRA: Wouldn't that be nice if we all got that, right?

CUOMO: He said, "Save some of this nice stuff for when I actually die."

PEREIRA: Yes, I know.

CUOMO: But he's got to figure out what he does now. You know, this was...

PEREIRA: Not the face of scientology as he suggested.

CUOMO: I know. This is in one way the easy part. You know, the success you've had, you know, you can own. It's what do you do next. And we'll have to see.

PEREIRA: This is the thing, he should just enjoy himself. He's got an 11-year-old son at home. Just chill.

CUOMO: What are you going to do? He's got a lot of years left.

CAMEROTA: Tweet us, let us know if you caught it and what your favorite moment was.

Meanwhile, Rand Paul's Senate talk-a-thon, did he accomplish shutting down the Patriot Act? Plus, new Republican calls for boots on the ground in Iraq. Our political panel is going to weigh in on all of that next.

CUOMO: You know, it's being called a treasure-trove, the documents grabbed in bin Laden's compound back in 2011. We're learning what is in them. And we're going to tell you ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:25:34] CAMEROTA: Senator Rand Paul followed through with his promise to filibuster a vote on the NSA surveillance program. After ten and a half hours on the Senate floor, did it work?

Let's bring in CNN political commentator and Democratic strategist, Paul Begala. He's a co-chair of a pro-Hillary Clinton super-PAC. And CNN political commentator and Republican strategist, Kevin Madden.

Gentlemen, great to see you.

KEVIN MADDEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Great to be with you.

CAMEROTA: OK. So Rand Paul did his signature Paul-a-palooza on the Senate floor, and we have some of the highlights. Let us show you those first.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL: I will not let the Patriot Act, the most unpatriotic of acts, go unchallenged.

No excuse not to debate this and no excuse not to vote.

The bulk collection must end.

For goodness sakes, can't we spend a couple of days trying to amend this?

Thank you for staying and not throwing things. We'll try not to do this but every couple years or so.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: So -- so, Paul, he was losing his voice there at the end, as you could hear. Did he accomplish what he wanted to?

PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, politically, but not legislatively, right? His effort will not stop a vote from occurring on the Patriot Act. There is a bill to change it and modify it and amend it.

But politically, perhaps yes. In other words, he got attention, even though he was competing with David Letterman's farewell show. He got attention, and there is something dramatic and kind of wonderful. It evokes, of course, the great Frank Capra movie "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington." You see a guy standing there on the Senate floor for 11 and a half hours, I think even people who disagree with him admire it.

CUOMO: Yes. Except that he wasn't Mr. Smith. His tone, I think, told the story on this one, Kevin. I mean, I get why he wanted to do this. It worked last time.

I don't know that it worked this time. I think that you have real issues to deal with here in balancing privacy and this threat, which is evolving all the time and which all of our intelligence people are saying they're behind, if anything. Where do you go from here on this? This certainly wasn't a solution. MADDEN: You know, I think -- I still think on the two questions,

the two goals he had here, which was a policy goal and a political goal, I'd say the answer is yes and yes, that he achieved what he wanted. I think on the policy part of it.

There is a bit of strange bedfellows here. And I think on the policy side, that actually works for Rand Paul, bringing together some conservatives who have a problem with some of the overreach with -- by the NSA and also bringing together some civil libertarians, showing that this is a concern that is a broad concern amongst the American public.

And then on the political side, look, there's a base of Republicans out there that Rand Paul wants to appeal to. And that he wants to raise money from through, you know, his prospects as a presidential candidate that he probably generated a lot of excitement amongst last night.

CAMEROTA: All right. Let's talk about something that happened here on NEW DAY yesterday. We had Governor Pataki on. He's preparing to announce that he's going to throw his hat in the ring next week. And he had a bold position on fighting ISIS. He said that it is time to send U.S. ground troops back into Iraq to fight ISIS, because he believes that the current strategy is not working. What do you think, Paul?

BEGALA: I think both substantively and politically, that's a disaster. Two and a half million Americans have served in Iraq and Afghanistan, if you have the two wars together the last 12 years. Two and a half million. We spent $1.7 trillion. Debt will rise to $6 trillion as we care for our veterans as they return. This is -- and by the way, over 6,700 have given their lives.

If Governor Pataki looks at that and thinks, "Well, the answer is more troops," I don't think he's going to get -- he might in the Republican Party. I don't know that party. But in America, he is not going to get a very favorable reaction. It's the last thing the American people want is more American troops.

Contrast that with my gal Hillary Clinton, who said this week -- she was asked about Iraq, and she said we will do what we can to help, but fundamentally, this is an Iraqi problem; and the Iraqi government, the Iraqi people have to solve it. That's much more where most people are.

CUOMO: Kevin, even though we are seeing a little bit of a move back toward the, "Hey, we may have to get involved over there," I think people -- the polls are showing they're not as staunchly against any involvement, do you think playing with boots on the ground is a mistake?

MADDEN: Well, look, I think so many Republicans disagree with the president's approach on combating ISIS, that so many of these candidates are going to want to draw as stark a contrast as possible.

And I think that's where someone like George Pataki, not very well known in the polls right now, wants to make some news, wants to draw a contrast with President Bush -- I'm sorry, with President Obama. So I think that's where that proclamation comes from.

CUOMO: Are you playing politics, though, with the troops, though?

MADDEN: And so that was my last point which is while we've seen some upticks in public approval...