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ISIS Takes Major Iraqi City; Interview with Former Senator George Mitchell; Rand Paul Gives Speech on NSA Data Gathering Program; Police Identify Suspect in D.C. Family Murders; Pipelines Spills Crude Oil off California Coast; Interview with U.S. Senator Mike Lee of Utah. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired May 21, 2015 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00] NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: But there is a much more immediate threat to those living in that city as 100 regime soldiers died overnight as ISIS swept in, taking the airport, taking the insurgents' headquarter, taking the prison we're told as well, are now going door to door looking for regime soldiers. Apparently at first, friendly with the locals. We've seen that before. So their brutality sets in and they begin trying to weed out who they think was loyalists to the government in the past. This is a strategically vital city. It shores off their southern flank and gives them a good direct approach on both Homs and Damascus, the capital and another city, key regime strongholds, too. This is also the first time we have seen ISIS turn their guns on the regime. That's key as well. Alisyn?

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Nick, the video is in incredible as is your reporting. Thanks so much for that.

Well, as ISIS takes more territory, U.S. intelligence officials increasingly concerned they could gain the upper hand in even more strategic hands. Let's bring in CNN Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr. What are they saying, Barbara?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn. As you say, a lot of calls for U.S. troops on the ground. Don't count on the Obama administration going down that road. Then intelligence community, I've talked to a number of officials. They are letting it be known behind the scenes how very concerned they are. They are not signing up to the notion that ISIS is on the defensive as many in the Pentagon are saying.

Intelligence officials I've spoken to are laying out the issues that they're looking at. Could there be a tipping point where ISIS would gain the strategic hand, Baghdad the top concern. Until now ISIS has not moved out of these Sunni dominated areas. If they try to make a run for Baghdad, which is Shia dominated, that would be massive. The U.S., of course, could not let Baghdad fall.

Just look at the map, the areas that ISIS is beginning to control or does control. So Baghdad being watched very carefully. Ramadi, if the Shia militias go back into Ramadi, would ISIS provoke a bloodbath in that area. That could be another tipping point that concerns them. And back in Syria, Assad -- you know, the moderate militias in Syria

recently made some gains against Assad, and that means that open space for ISIS. All of this getting a lot of attention because the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff made some really unusual remarks about Ramadi. I want to read it to you, General Martin Dempsey talking about how the Iraqis left Ramadi the other day, he said, quote, "The ISF was not driven out of Ramadi. They drove out of Ramadi."

Dempsey's remarks are getting a lot of attention. He is suggesting the ISF basically made the decision itself to leave Ramadi and that there was not enough air power to help them because of a sandstorm that a lot of people say may not have really happened. A lot of mixed messages here in Washington. Back to you guys.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: That's the perfect line, Barbara, because people are saying what is the message, what is the strategy, what makes sense here in Iraq? Let's engage that with somebody that knows how to answer those questions, George Mitchell, former senator and Senate majority leader. He served as President Obama's special envoy for Middle East peace. He's got a new book, "The Negotiator, A Memoir." It's available right now. We direct you to it.

And thank you very much, senator, for joining us. We are sorry to interrupt what looks like to be your fly-fishing there on the outcroppings of the main shoreline. It's good to see you fish in a suit, take your join seriously always.

Let's deal with Iraq, Senator. The situation right now is coaxing people in the Republican Party to say it's time to reinvest U.S. lives in this, put them on the ground, let them make strategic missions, that's the way to beat is. Do you agree, sir?

GEORGE MITCHELL, (D) FORMER SENATOR, MAINE: No, I don't. American forces injected into Syria now would become the target of the two opposing forces, both of which we oppose in the complexity and contradictory fighting that is going on in the Middle East, and two issues stand out.

First, this is part of an historic 1400-year struggle between Sunni and Shia for dominance within Islam. This is not a new issue. And secondly, ISIS has made gains only in the areas that are Sunni dominated, disaffected from their national governments which they see as Shia dominated imposed outside forces. It's unlikely that ISIS will be able to extend beyond those areas.

Keep in mind in Syria that when they make gains, they are making them against the Assad regime, which the United States also opposed. The president has said many times that Assad cannot be permitted to remain in office permanently.

[08:05:01] So it's complex, it's very difficult, but I don't think the answer is more American troops. We're just getting out of a 12-year war in Iraq, and a 14-year war in Afghanistan, and the last thing we need to do is to plunge into what would be a contest in Syria. CUOMO: The question, senator, and while I ask you this question I

will make it extra-long so your crew there can work on your microphone, because it's taking some hits, so let a strange pair of hands come while I talk to you and fix that situation. Let them do it for you, senator.

So here's the thing. You said we are just getting out of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. We understand that. However, that is also a point of criticism right now, senator, because they say it's the fact that you are getting out of Iraq, the last six years, that you bailed out to make good on a campaign promise from President Obama, then senator Obama in the race, it is because you left Afghanistan that we now have the problems we are seeing with ISIS. Is that fair criticism, that it wasn't going into the areas that was the problem, but leaving them?

MITCHELL: No, the real crucial mistake was the de-Baathization that occurred in Iraq from the Bush administration when they decided to effectively sideline what had been the entire Iraqi army, thereby creating a natural pool of what is now ISIS. That was the real critical decision.

The second problem really, frankly, there is not a shred of evidence that if we stayed two more years, four more years, 15 more years, that it would be any different at the time we left then. If you go back in history, 95 years ago the same thing happened when the British were dominating Iraq. It's really a mistake to think that the United States can somehow militarily control every event in the Middle East.

CUOMO: And as we all know Afghanistan is often called the graveyard of empires because people have gone in there and not been able to occupy and not been able to change the social dynamic and they wind up having to leave defeated.

Let's go to another situation where there are big stakes on the board. Your book "The Negotiator" plays on this, your piece in the "Boston Globe" says the Iran nuclear talks strike the right balance. That's going to be seen as somewhat controversial for people, as you know, most of the spin on the Iran talks is either you are over-indulging a bad guy in Iran, or that the sanctions are the only thing you have and once you give them up you will empower Iran to do exactly what you say they are not going to do. So that makes the question is why do you believe what is going on with Iran right now as it is presented is the right balance?

Like I thought, senator, you have nothing to say on this question. No, the microphone has gone out on Senator George Mitchell. I don't want to torture you with bad communications anymore, senator, so we will pick up this another day when we get the communications right. The book is called "The Negotiator." You got a piece in the "Boston Globe" about what's going on with the Iran talks right now. We direct people to that. Michaela?

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Way to push through it, Chris.

All right, other news for you, the clock is ticking as the Senate continues weather to extend provisions of the Patriot Act allowing the United States bulk surveillance program. A vote could come today following another epic floor speech from Rand Paul, more than 10 hours railing against the NSA. So did he convince his colleagues to nix the program? Let's turn to chief Congressional correspondent Dana Bash joining us from Washington with the latest. Dana?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The answer to that is likely no, but that probably wasn't his goal. It was to really use one of the perks that you have if you are running for president as a sitting U.S. senator, and that is the stage of the United States Senate floor, Rand Paul used it to his advantage big-time with that talk-a-thon against NSA wiretapping programs that are set to expire June 1 in just a few weeks. Listen to part of it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAND PAUL, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There needs to be a thorough debate, a thorough and complete debate about whether or not we should allow our government to collect all of our phone records all of the time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Most of Rand Paul's GOP presidential opponents disagree with his position, saying NSA wiretap something a critical tool of national security that outweighs civil liberties intrusions, especially in these scary times. But Rand Paul is going for a specific libertarian wing of the Republican Party that backs him big-time on this. His president campaign used what his aides told me was a significant energizing tool, they used this as one. They raised money off of it, they ginned up their supporters on social media, and so forth.

But this is just one drama to play out into the night. Alisyn, there is going to be another one later this morning right on the Senate floor, a key vote on a trade bill that President Obama calls crucial for allowing him to strike a deal that he says will help the U.S. economy. But it may not pass. Why? Because of opposition within his own Democratic ranks, including Democratic leaders if you can believe it. They say free trade agreements simply hurt American workers, Alisyn.

[08:10:03] CAMEROTA: So Dana, did the Paul-apalooza work in that, is there going to be time today to vote on the Patriot Act or not?

BASH: Unlikely, but it is possible. If Rand Paul continues to use the tool that he has as a U.S. senator, every U.S. senator has tools that they can use to drag things out. He can possibly do that until maybe next week. You know, my experience, when the lure of recess is coming, which is what is happening in the Senate tomorrow, and Memorial Day is this weekend and they are supposed to be off next week, sometimes agreements magically happen. But we will see if that happens in this case.

Regardless it does not seem that ultimately he has the votes to overcome this, it's just a question of how long he wants to make his point, and, you know, kind of drag it out. CAMEROTA: Got it, got it. The lure of recess, from third grade to

the U.S. Capitol, we know it well. Dana, thank you so much for all of that.

There is a major break in the case of the mysterious murder of a wealthy Washington, D.C. family, authorities identifying a suspect through an unusual clue. Let's get to CNN's Joe Johns who is live at the scene with the latest. What do we know, Joe?

JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The manhunt is on for a 34-year-old man from Lanham, Maryland, accused in these grisly murders. Authorities are asking for help in trying to locate this man.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNS: Breaking overnight, a bizarre twist in the brutal quadruple murder arson mystery in an upscale D.C. neighborhood. Police identifying a suspect in the slayings of a prominent CEO, his wife, their young son and housekeeper. And 34-year-old Daron Dylon Wint now wanted on first-degree murder charges while armed. According to law enforcement officials, the break in the case coming not from the grainy surveillance video released by police days ago, but from DNA found on the crust of a Domino's pizza that had been delivered to the house while the family was bound inside.

And 46-year-old Savvas Savopoulos, a CEO of a company called American Iron Works, his 47-year-old wife, Amy, a Washington philanthropist and socialite, their 10-year-old son Philip, and a woman named Veralicia Figueroa, their 57-year-old housekeeper, all found dead in their mansion that was set on fire, their blue Porsche that went missing found ditched in a Maryland church parking where it was torched. More lurid details of their gruesome murders now emerging, a source telling CNN the victims were bound with duct tape and held captive by the perpetrators, with signs of torture to the youngest victim.

Meanwhile the "Washington Post" reporting that one of Savopoulos' employees came to the mansion and dropped off a package with $40,000 inside, the assailant making off with the cash. The case riddling investigators, hours before the Savopoulos home was torched, one of the family's other housekeepers received a bizarre text from Amy Savopoulos reading in part, "I am making sure you do not come today." No motive for the killings has been released, but police believe money was a prime factor.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNS: Daron Wint has a long list of arrests and run-ins with the law on his record. This time, however, the charge is murder. The Savopoulos family car was found in the county where Daron had listed as his last address. Chris?

CUOMO: All right, Joe, we'll stay on this. Thank you for the reporting.

We also want to tell you this morning about a massive crude oil spill off the coast of California has prompted a state of emergency in Santa Barbara County. Nine miles across a scenic stretch of the central coast have been impacted now. Crews are working around the clock to clean up the mess.

So let's bring in CNN's Paul Vercammen who is in Santa Barbara with the very latest. What do you know there?

PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Chris, this had been a Memorial weekend, when people not only from California but the United States and the world had planned on coming to Refugio beach to enjoy it in its pristine beauty. Those plans ruined as this beach is shut down by the crude spill, also a neighboring beach, El Capitan, also shut down for Memorial weekend.

And at the center of everyone's concerns, Plains All American pipeline, the owner of this pipeline that ruptured, the Environmental Defense Center in Santa Barbara among the activist groups questioning why there wasn't some sort of automatic shutdown, saying they are saddened by this. And, by the way, Plains in the crosshairs of the EPA and the Justice Department at one point back in 2010. Plains paid out more than $40 million in a settlement to upgrade pipeline and because of penalties. This was in connection with 10 spills in Kansas, and Oklahoma, Texas, and Louisiana.

And when the sun comes up here later in the day, we will see those workers and the white suits and the yellow bootees literally getting down on their hands and knees on the beach and raking together, scooping up the tar balls that you will be able to see here.

[08:15:15] Again, dramatic changes here for the memorial weekend, for all these people that planned to enjoy California. It has robbed its beauty.

Now, back to you, Michaela.

PEREIRA: Yes, the impact on the area there, the economic impact as well is sure to be felt in California.

This news as well, investigators are now studying the cell phone records of the engineer at the helm of the Amtrak that crashed outside of Philadelphia. And then trying to match time stamps on Brandon Bostian's phone with other data sources like cell phone towers and surveillance video.

Evidence does show calls were made and text messages were sent that fateful day and it's unclear if the phone was in use when the train actually derailed.

CUOMO: David Letterman went out like the understated man that he is, signing off last night for the final time after 33 years on late night television. A host, and he had all the A-listers around and they did the one last top ten list. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm just glad your show is being given to another white guy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thanks for letting me take part in a hugely disappointing series finale.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dave, you are the comedy what I am to comedy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thanks for finally proving men can be funny.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dave, I will never have the money I owe you.

DAVID LETTERMAN, COMEDIAN: Oh no!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: Love watching them laugh at the other, too.

CAMEROTA: Right. And hearing Dave Letterman chime in, oh, no.

PEREIRA: A shot of his wife and son. So great.

And a round of applause for them.

CAMEROTA: That's great.

CUOMO: You know, I think that the interesting pieces are yet to be written about what he really meant to the genre as we go forward, what has changed, what's no longer the same for better and worse. It would be interesting. Perspective is what the story is all about.

So, we're going to bring in somebody that knows Dave as a performer and as a friend. You know this guy, Gilbert Gottfried, comedian. He's going to talk about Letterman's legacy.

CAMEROTA: I can't wait for that.

Well, this is the issue that has lawmakers crossing party lines. Will Congress vote to extend controversial provisions of the Patriot Act or will they let it lapse? We have a top lawmaker, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:21:29] CAMEROTA: Senator Rand Paul followed through with his promise to filibuster a vote on the NSA surveillance program, spending 10 1/2 hours on the Senate floor. He was supported by Republican Senator Mike Lee, a cosponsor of the USA Freedom Act, which would ban the mass collection of American's photo records and data.

Senator Lee joins us now.

Good morning, Senator.

SEN. MIKE LEE (R), UTAH: Good morning, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: So, this 10 1/2 hour speech basically by Rand Paul on the Senate floor, we're calling it a Paul-a-palooza, did it work? I mean, will Congress let the Patriot Act lapse?

LEE: Time will tell what Congress does with this, but I do think the American people owe a debt of gratitude for Senator Paul for taking to the floor and outlining some of the problems with the bulk data collection program that's being carried by the NSA right now.

The American people are not comfortable having the federal government know that much about their lives, their intimate details of their lives. And Senator Paul were shedding light on that.

CAMEROTA: I mean, now, of course, the supporters of the phone data collection say that this is not intimate details, they're not listening in on their calls. It's like a time stamp that says when a phone call was made and to what phone number, and that's not a intimate detail per se?

LEE: Each one of those data points might not be an intimate detail, but as I explain in my book that came out a few weeks ago, it's called "Our Lost Constitution", I devote a chapter to this subject. Those data points, when taken together, when put together in a database with similar details about every American stretching back five years at a time, will paint a pretty accurate mosaic, a pretty silhouette portrait of every American.

This is vulnerable to abuse. Now, I'm willing to assume the people working at the NSA right now have nothing but our best interests at heart, at least for purposes of this discussion. But we know that it won't always be that way, and we know that we need to protect the American people against potential abuses that could happen.

CAMEROTA: You know, there are a whole bunch of counterterrorism experts that say that program has kept the U.S. safe, that it has actually thwarted a series of attacks here and abroad. What do you say to them?

LEE: OK. I've got two responses to that. First of all, I'm not proposing that we do away with the NSA, and I am not proposing that we do away with the NSA's ability to track phone numbers connected to another phone number believed to be involved in some type of terrorists ring.

What I'm saying is the NSA shouldn't go out and tell the phone companies, send us all your records, send us all calling data on everything. This kind of bulk collection is eerily similar to the type of abuse what we fought against at the time of the American Revolution and talk about --

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: Senator, how are they supposed to figure out who is calling whom? How do they get a random hit from a number that might not have been on their radar yet?

LEE: OK. So, I'm the sponsor of the Senate version of the USA Freedom Act, along with Senator Pat Leahy, liberal Democrat from Vermont. He and I have come together and introduce this bill, the same version of the bill that was passed by the House of Representatives overwhelming last week.

And that bill that comes up with a solution for that. It says that when the NSA identifies the phone number that it believes is involved in some type of terrorist activity, it can go to each of the telephone companies and identify any calls made to or from that number, and to or from all of those numbers, so that they can collect that data, they can collect it more or less in real time, and then they can analyze that. They can get the benefit of what they are now doing without having to amass a database that includes everyone.

[08:25:01] CAMEROTA: Do you dispute Mike Rogers, who was the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, who says it's that bulk data collection, it stopped 54 attacks, thwarted them worldwide, including some here in the U.S., like the 2009 New York subway attack? Do you dispute that?

LEE: He's got access to more information than I do, and so, I'm not ready to dispute that.

My point is there are not good people at the NSA who do good things, who do good things every day to protect us. My point is we can do better and do more to protect the privacy of the American people.

And it's interesting, Alisyn. This is an issue that's neither Republican nor Democratic; it's neither liberal nor conservative. It's simply an American issue and is constitutional issue.

CAMEROTA: Do you know any examples of innocent Americans who have been caught up in the dragnet of phone record collection?

LEE: OK. I can point to any abuses of this program in particular at the NSA, of the bulk metadata collection program at NSA. There have been documented abuses of other programs carried by the NSA, and we can only assume that it's only a matter of time before such abuses could occur. Human beings are fallible, and so, when you create this kind of database that is so vulnerable to abuse and manipulation, we have to put rules in place to safeguard the American people against that abuse.

CAMEROTA: So, Senator, what is going to happen? Is your USA Freedom Act going to be voted on?

LEE: I certainly hope so and it needs to be, and we need to bring it to the floor, and we need to allow our members, Democrats and Republicans alike, to put forward amendments they might propose to make the bill better. I think that gives us the best possible chance of keeping Americans safe while also protecting their civil liberties.

CAMEROTA: OK. Senator Mike Lee, thanks so much for explaining your perspective to all of this and nice to have you on NEW DAY.

LEE: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Let's get over to Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right, Alisyn.

Osama bin Laden and ISIS, besides the evil intent, how else are they linked? New documents recovered in the bin Laden raid lend some hints. We'll take a look.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)