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NSA Surveillance Powers Temporarily Expire; Interview with Sen. Angus King, I-ME; Kerry Remains Hospitalized with Broken Leg. Aired 7- 7:30a ET

Aired June 01, 2015 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's the beginning of our process. Good morning, Chris.

[07:00:02] You know, last night on the Senate floor on that rare Sunday session, there was drama, there was passion. There were even some raised voices.

But now, as you mentioned, Senate leaders are trying to make sure that the lapse in this law, a law that many see as vital to fighting terrorism is only a few days long or as short as possible.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[07:00:19] SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm not going to take it anymore. I don't think the American people are going to take it anymore.

JONES (voice-over): The heated debate over the Patriot Act pushing beyond the midnight deadline in Washington, forcing the NSA to immediately stop collecting telephone metadata on millions of Americans across the country.

PAUL: They want to take just a little bit of your liberty. But they get it by making you afraid.

JONES: Senator Rand Paul blasting the NSA's domestic surveillance program, calling it an illegal spy program on Americans.

This as counterterrorism officials also lose the ability to obtain roving wiretaps, allowing them to listen in on potential terror suspects, even as they change cell phones.

With the advancement of ISIS across the Middle East, some senators say this program is needed now more than ever.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: Isn't this program as critical as it's ever been since its inception, given the fact that the Middle East is literally on fire and we are losing everywhere?

JONES: The NSA's authority will likely be restored as early as Wednesday, when Republican leadership aides expect a final vote on the compromise bill, the USA Freedom Act. The bill amends the Patriot Act, requiring a specific targeted warrant to obtain any call records from telecommunications companies. REID: We're in the mess we are today because of the majority leader.

The majority leader should have seen this coming.

JONES: Democratic Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid blaming his Republican counterpart, Mitch McConnell, for not having a plan. After an about-face, Majority Leader McConnell, who had wanted to renew the Patriot Act as is, now says passing the compromise bill is the only realistic way forward.

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), SENATE MAJORITY LEADER: I believe this is a program that strikes a critical balance between privacy on the one hand and national security on the other.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JONES: So what's next? Well, we expect a vote on final passage of that USA Freedom Act around mid-week. That's because of some Senate procedures and likely votes on some amendments. But of course, if they make any changes to that law here in the Senate, they're going to have to submit back over to the House of Representatives for consideration. So this is not over yet -- Alisyn.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: That's right. More machinations happening there on Capitol Hill. Thanks so much, Athena.

Well, the Obama administration blasting lawmakers, saying the NSA program going away will threaten national security. But critics accused the president of creating an unnecessary state of fear. CNN senior White House correspondent, Jim Acosta, has more on all of that.

What are they saying, Jim?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, they're very disappointed over here at the White House over the expiration of these NSA programs, Alisyn, warning this temporary lapse could impact counterterrorism investigations.

Aides to the president are not calling out senators by name, but it's clear who the White House is annoyed with this morning, and that is Senator Rand Paul. White House press secretary Josh Ernest released a statement last night, praising the Senate for moving forward with the replacement bill for the Patriot Act. But there's also a thinly- veiled dig at Senator Paul.

Put it up on the screen. "We call on the Senate," Earnest says, "to ensure this irresponsible lapse in authorities is as short-lived as possible on a matter as critical as our national security. Individual senators must put aside their partisan motivations and act swiftly. The American people deserve nothing less."

Now, as for the expired NSA programs, here is what is at stake at this point. That bulk phone data collection that Athena mentioned, the roving wire taps to keep track of suspects who keep changing cell phones and a lone wolf provision, which allows investigators to track suspects who are not tied to terrorism investigations. Now, the White House have warned all last week that there was no Plan

B if these NSA programs expire. Counterterrorism officials explain investigators may have some work-arounds to continue pursuing suspects in investigations that have already begun before the lapse in these programs. Maybe grandfathered in cases that potentially are opened up today, though.

However, they could be affected, Chris, and I remember when Congress would stop short of these legislative cliffs. Now, they just go over them. And this is another one of those examples 00 Chris.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Jim, thank you very much.

Let's bring in independent Senator Angus King. He was on Capitol Hill last night. He voted to advance the USA Freedom Act.

It's good to have you here, Senator. We know that you also wanted to extend the current Patriot Act. Now the opposition on the other side, Rand Paul or others, would say, "No, no, no, it overreached. It burdened our privacy unduly. It may not have even been effective." They said it was illegal, the courts did, that Section 215, at least, had to be redrawn. Is this the right thing to be doing?

SEN. ANGUS KING (I), MAINE: Well, I was always in favor of getting the data out of the hands of the government. So that fundamental premise of the Freedom Act I was supportive of.

What has bothered me, Chris, as we've gone through this and the bill that passed the House, was that there was no requirement whatsoever that the phone companies hold the data for any particular period of time. And my fear was that they would reduce, reduce, reduce, and render the program essentially ineffective.

[07:05:11] And I do think it's an important part of the tool kit. It's not the whole deal. It's like a police officer has a notebook at a crime scene. You say you can't carry the notebook anymore. Is that going to eliminate being able to solve crimes? No. But is it a tool that the police officer uses? Yes.

And I think that's exactly the way this program is. It's an important tool. It was put in place in the wake of September 11 to fill a gap. And I think it's something that we ought to figure out a way to be sure it continues to be effective.

CUOMO: You have the effectiveness issue. You know, does metadata work? Do you really need it in the bulk collection process? And then you have the big pendulum swing of where do we go? Security or privacy?

We just had Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard on out of Hawaii, obviously. And she said, you know, it's so overwhelming that it's actually counterproductive to have metadata anyway and that the intelligence community should be more specific and less about just looking at everybody. Do you agree about that?

KING: Well, they're not looking at everybody. They have the data. And then they search it for a particular phone number, the Tsarnaevs' phones. And then they see if, for example, after the Boston Marathon bombing, you were talking about a national plot or a couple of guys in Boston. And I think that's important information to have.

It's important also, Chris. There's so much talk about this, and everything is sort of balled up together. And you get the feeling that the NSA is listening to people's phone conversations. All we're talking about here is phone numbers: what number called what other number to see whether you got a conspiracy going on or whether you're dealing with the lone wolf.

I think leaving the data with the photo companies is a good step. I've always been uncomfortable with the government holding it. But I do think there should be some requirement that the phone companies at least let us know if they're going to reduce the retention period, so we know whether or not we've got a problem in terms of the effectiveness of the program.

CUOMO: Rand Paul has certainly been hyperbolic on this point, which is that the privacy is being taken from you, and you don't even know it. They're taking a little bit at a time. And this is the time to make a stand and say, no, no, no, we're not going to have big brother be the rule in the United States, that a fair assessment?

KING: Well, I don't think so. I think he's overdoing it. But I think there's a larger issue here, Chris, and we lead into this coming here. We've got half the U.S. Senate, it seems, running for president. And we're going to have some important deadlines coming up: debt ceilings, budget bills, appropriations bills. And if somebody who's running for president can essentially take over the floor of the U.S. Senate and make this kind of publicity deal, it's going to really impede our ability to get the people's work done down here.

I think Senator Paul is entitled to his opinion. I think it's a genuine one. But I frankly think he's overstating it significantly. And I just worry about the implications of every two or three months, we're going to have somebody running for president taking over in this way, and it's not productive.

CUOMO: Do you think that he is just grandstanding on this? The American people got pretty hot and heavy about privacy. You know, everything that happened with the big document leaks there a year ago and the finding out that they can surveil you. And even if you take away this bulk collection, there's still ways for the government with current tools to surveil private individuals who aren't targeted in an investigation. Is it an undue concern?

KING: Well, it's a serious concern. And it is an absolutely legitimate concern.

I mean, what we're doing, Chris, is balancing two provisions of the Constitution. The preamble says our fundamental responsibility is to provide for the common defense and ensure domestic tranquility. That's security. That's national security. That's a basic responsibility of government. The Fourth Amendment says the people shall be free from unreasonable

searches and seizures. So we're constantly trying to weigh those two provisions and find the right balance in light of new developments in technology and in light of risks.

That's one of the ironic parts of this whole situation. We're talking about some people or advocating a kind of unilateral disarmament in one of the riskiest situations I've ever seen in my lifetime.

So we're trying to find that balance. And you need people like Rand Paul and Ron Wyden and others who are advocating on various sides of this. But I think the important thing to realize here is there's no absolute. It's not absolute privacy. There's no absolute national security state. We want to find the balance. That's what this country is all about.

Remember the Fourth Amendment doesn't say no searches and seizures.

CUOMO: Just unreasonable.

KING: No unreasonable searches and seizures. Those guys were geniuses that wrote that document. They knew what they were doing.

CUOMO: Important distinction, to be sure. And another uncertainty here is whether or not this vote gets done quickly. And you're saying that politics could be to blame for that. Different now, especially in the presidential cycle. But we'll be staying on it, Senator.

[07:10:01] Thank you for your perspective, as always. We look forward to having you back to figure out where we are going forward -- Alisyn.

KING: Thanks, Chris. I do my best.

CAMEROTA: OK, Chris. Another top story, Secretary of State John Kerry remains in Switzerland this morning after breaking his leg during a weekend bike ride in France. This as the clock sticks to reach a nuclear deal with Iran.

CNN senior international correspondent Nic Robertson is live in Geneva with the latest -- Nic.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's right, Alisyn. We understand that Secretary Kerry was negotiating a curb when the accident happened, falling on his right side, breaking his right femur, a fracture close to a former -- to a hip replacement in his right hip.

What we understand at the moment is he was due to go to Madrid for talks there with the prime minister, with the king, with the council there. He was then due on Tuesday to go to Paris for very important talks, the coalition to build the fight against ISIS. He'd initially said that he'd like to attend that by remote, but the doctors now seem to be taking the lead. His own doctor, the physician who did that hip replacement from Boston flying over here, Dennis Burke, on his way here. It's not uncommon for us here. We've covered Secretary Kerry at these

meetings, the Iranian talks here. Just a few months ago, March, we saw him going out for cycle rides, take a break from the talks. This is a very unfortunate accident, and it may have a long lasting impact. This sort of injury takes a long time to recover.

Secretary Kerry, of course, key in the Iran negotiations, substantial issues on sanctions, access to sites. Thirty days now to go in the talks. And it's Secretary Kerry's relationship with the Iranian foreign minister, Zarif, that's been so effective at pushing the talks to where they're at right now, Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Nic, thank you very much. We'll stay on this situation. His health and also the impact on the negotiations.

A 9-year-old girl is in serious condition this morning after a car slammed into LAX. Car plowed into the girl on the sidewalk before crashing into a utility room. Police are still looking into what caused that crash.

CAMEROTA: Former House speaker, Dennis Hastert, is expected to face a judge this week about lying to the FBI. According to a federal indictment, the 73-year-old ex-high school wrestling coach and teacher lied about taking out a large clunk of money to pay a male student to keep quiet about allegations of sexual abuse. Meanwhile, Wheaton College, a Christian college in Illinois, and Hastert's alma mater nixed Hastert's name from their public policy center.

CUOMO: Tributes are pouring in after the death of vice president's son Beau Biden. President Obama and the first lady visiting the Bidens' official residence Sunday to offer their condolences. Beau Biden was an Iraq war vet. He was the former Delaware attorney general. But most importantly, he was a husband and a father who was loved by many. He was just 46 years old when he lost his battle with cancer.

CAMEROTA: So sad. I mean, you knew him. I didn't. But he sounds like such a special person. I wish I had known him.

CUOMO: He was, and you know, what always matters most is the impact on the family. And, you know, Joe Biden has been very outspoken, the vice president, about what he lived through, losing his first wife and his daughter. His sons were everything to him. And in them, Beau the older, and Hunter the younger, that's what the vice president saw as his success. Not his office, his sons. And Beau was a hell of a guy.

CAMEROTA: Well -- just how bad is Secretary of State John Kerry's broken leg? And how long will it take for him to recover? We're going to have CNN's chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta here to talk about Secretary Kerry as well as Beau Biden.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:17:25] CAMEROTA: Surgery is expected for John Kerry after the secretary of state broke his leg during a weekend bike ride in France. What kind of recovery is ahead for America's top diplomat? Let's bring in CNN's chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

Sanjay, great to see you.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.

CAMEROTA: He broke his femur. Aaah, I don't even like to think about that. That's hard to do, isn't it?

GUPTA: It's -- it's the toughest -- sort of one of the toughest bones, longest, strongest bones in the body, so yes, Alisyn, I mean, to break that thing, that requires a lot of force. And it's painful. I mean, you know, this is a real injury for him.

And you may know, there it is: the high bone connected to the hip bone. Right?

CAMEROTA: I do remember that.

GUPTA: People know where that is. But that bone is a long, strong bone. So it's tough to break. He also had a hip replacement on that side. He's had two hip replacements. And -- and so the -- that fracture is close to where that hip replacement was, as well. So just how much that will affect him, how much it will affect his recovery? A little bit waits to be seen. But that's a significant injury.

CAMEROTA: But what does that mean for recovery? So if you've had -- does the hip replacement complicate it enough that it means that it's many more weeks of training for him? I mean, sorry, physical therapy for him?

GUPTA: Not necessarily. You know, it's an interesting point that the surgeon who actually did his hip replacement is also going to be the one who's going to address his femur fracture. He's going to need surgery, most likely. And it could actually be about four-to-six months of recovery overall.

But interestingly, you oftentimes want people actually starting to walk on it. You want them weight bearing, as the term goes. Because that can help promote the healing of that bone. So the recovery is long. It's going to be tough for him to certainly have the same active pace that he's had, difficult to travel. But he should be able to recover within that time period.

CAMEROTA: Now, speaking of his traveling, we just heard from Nic Robertson that Secretary Kerry's doctor is flying to Geneva to see him, rather than Secretary Kerry coming home to Boston. Why is that?

GUPTA: Well, I think that -- my guess is, and this is probably, out of an abundance of caution, to answer your question. I don't think there's any particular reason that that doctor who's going to do his -- take care of him, needs to fly to Geneva. Eventually, Secretary Kerry is going to go to Boston, I think, and get his care there. So he's going to fly with him. It's an abundance of caution.

But I think it does speak to this idea that the same surgeon who knows Secretary Kerry, operated on him before, has operated on that particular area of his body, is going to be the same doctor to care for him. Probably is a good thing. Is it absolutely necessary? No. If Secretary Kerry had needed an operation in Geneva because it was more emergent or urgent, he could have had that done there, as well.

CAMEROTA: So I mean, Secretary Kerry is, of course, the secretary of state. Will he be able to travel?

[07:20:09] GUPTA: I think it's going to be challenging. You know, and we're going to notice this about him, Alisyn, you know, as we watch over the next few months. You're going to see the impact this is having on his life.

He could travel. It's going to be a lot more challenging for him. His leg may not be as mobile. He may be able to again weight bear, stand on that leg over a period of time, but getting around and, you know, certainly at the pace that he has been, is going to be much more challenging.

CAMEROTA: Sanjay, let's talk about Beau Biden. He was just 46 years old. What do we know about the brain cancer that took his life?

GUPTA: You know, this is -- it's sad. You know, there are certain brain cancers, cancers that originate in the brain that are just really difficult to treat. You may remember Senator Kennedy a few years ago, died after 15 months after being diagnosed. Some of these cancers are challenging to treat.

He was treated. He tried to get all the various treatments. He was down at M.D. Anderson for this cancer. But we know for some of the worst brain cancers, something known as glioblastoma, the average survival is only 15 months right now, Alisyn. So these are -- these are tough figures. And it often strikes at this stage of life.

CAMEROTA: I was reading that brain cancers like Beau Biden's kill 15,000 Americans a year. Are they usually fatal?

GUPTA: They are usually fatal. They -- the worst type, again, glioblastoma, is the most aggressive; 15 months is the survival. There are others that are lower grade, meaning they're not as aggressive, where people can survive longer. But these are -- these are challenging cancers to treat. I mean, there's been a lot of progress in certain areas, including using viral-based therapies and genetic therapies, but the sort of stalwarts of chemo, radiation, surgery are still the best shot that we've got. Sometimes they provide more months of life. But they haven't often been able to actually cure these tumors.

CAMEROTA: It's so terrible. What a loss. Sanjay, thanks so much for walking us through all this.

GUPTA: Alisyn, thank you.

CAMEROTA: Great to see you. Let's go back to Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Alisyn. The Senate showdown over NSA spying is not just about national security. It's also about politics, presidential politics to be exact. So what will this mean for 2016? John King takes it on, and not just because it rhymes, on "Inside Politics."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: The NSA's legal right to collect your phone data is on hold in part, along with several other key provisions of the Patriot Act. Now, the Senate could not extend the Patriot Act, so it will have to take up the House version, which is dubbed the Freedom Act. That bill puts the protections back in place, but with reforms to satisfy concerns about privacy.

President Obama and other top officials warn of gaps in intelligence without the Patriot Act in place.

CAMEROTA: Qatar agreeing to extend the travel ban on the so-called Taliban Five. U.S. officials say it will stay in place until a long- term solution can be reached between the U.S., Qatar and Afghanistan. The big concern is what will happen if the five Taliban leaders walk free. They were released from Guantanamo one year ago in exchange for Army Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl.

CUOMO: So one of the greats in news has retired. You're looking at him. "Face the Nation" host Bob Schieffer, who was also the anchor of CBS News for a while, he had a 58-year career in journalism. In this final show, Schieffer briefly retraced his career and recalled getting to work with his hero, Walter Cronkrite -- Cronkite. What'd I say?

CAMEROTA: Cronkite.

CUOMO: Cronkite. He thanked the viewers, as well. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOB SCHIEFFER, OUTGOING CBS NEWS HOST, "FACE THE NATION": I'll be honest. I'm going to miss being in the middle of things, but the one thing I will never forget is the trust you placed in me and how nice you were to have me as a guest in your home over so many years. That meant the world to me, and it always will. Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: And that was by all accounts true, and certainly, working with Cronkite was amazing, but working for you meant everything to him. And everybody knew that who worked with him. The responsibility to people he took very seriously. So we wish him many happy years without make-up.

CAMEROTA: That's really nice. Let's get now to "Inside Politics" on NEW DAY with John King. Good morning, John.

JOHN KING, CNN HOST, "INSIDE POLITICS": Alisyn, happy Monday to you. I want to wish Bob Godspeed, as well. He is a capital "G" gentleman. That's the best thing you can say about Bob. You can say that, as well. He's going to have some time here in Washington, some time in Texas. Good for him. He'll have some fun. He won't disappear. We'll see him from time to time.

A busy day to go "Inside Politics," as you guys know. The Patriot Act, parts of it have expired. Let's go "Inside Politics" this morning with Sara Murray of CNN; Robert Costa of "The Washington Post."

This is Rand Paul's moment. Let's leave it to the national security experts to get into what can the government not do now, and how long will this matter, and are we truly at risk, but politically, Rand Paul sees this as a great opportunity. He's running for president. A lot of complaints that he's using the Senate floor as a platform for his campaign. Listen to him on the floor as he makes his case that he's right and...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL: People here in town think I'm making a huge mistake. Some of them I think secretly want there to be an attack in the United States so they can blame it on me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: I'm not sure anybody wants there to be an attack on the United States. But this is part of an example of the hyperbole of this and how he is, without a doubt, taking over the Senate floor in a way he thinks will help his presidential campaign.

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Yes, I think that's absolutely true. And of course, the big knock against senators running for president is they have no record of accomplishment; they have no record of achievements. So now, Rand Paul can point to this and say, "Look, I stopped the mass collection of your phone records. I have this achievement. I did this by myself."

But there is no doubt he is using this to help his campaign. He has been sending out e-mail after e-mail, tweet after tweet, saying, "Look what I've done. Now donate money to my campaign."

KING: He thinks, Robert, that young people will like this. He thinks that his dad's old libertarian wing will like this. That matters in a state like Iowa. We'll give you some numbers in a minute. But how much does it help versus how much it hurts if you get into the tradition of the Republican Party?

And here's Marco Rubio, one of his rivals, a senator, Republican senator running for president, saying, "Allowing any of these programs to expire is a mistake. But that's what is happening as a consequence of" -- here's where it gets interesting -- "of the reckless spreading of misinformation and political posturing. Our country is now poised to be less safe, and American is at greater risk from growing terrorist threats."

Marco Rubio among those who's saying Rand Paul is grossly exaggerating what these programs do.

ROBERT COSTA, WASHINGTON POST: According to Senator Paul's advisors, his chief goal at this moment is to revive his father's base, that Libertarian network that helped -- can help lift him in a Republican primary, in the Iowa caucuses.

[07:30:09] Because he knows in a crowded field he has to find some way to keep momentum, and he's been struggling to do so for the past few months.