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Terror Suspect Killed by Police; Sections of Patriot Act Revised in New Congressional Bill; Interview with Congressman Thomas Massie; FIFA Pres. Sepp Blatter Resigns; Road Rage Makes Driver Run Over Motorcyclist; President Obama's Approval Numbers Down. Aired 8- 8:30a ET

Aired June 03, 2015 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00] ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: -- the question of everybody's mind, why did police move in when they moved in? This is somebody they were watching 24 hours a day. Law enforcement officials say that recently they had noted changed in Rahim's behavior. They approached him with what they said should have been a conversation. That confrontation of course turned deadly. Now police are talking to at least two people believed to be his associates as one man heads to court.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FIELD: Today, an Everett, Massachusetts man in custody, police making the arrest last night in connection with the fatal shooting of a terror suspect in Boston by police on Tuesday morning. It all began around 7:00 in the morning when FBI and Boston police descended on this CVS aiming to question the suspect, 26-year-old Usaama Rahim.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, we have a gentleman, black male, six feet, coming out with a knife.

FIELD: Rahim had been under 24 hour surveillance by the Joint Terrorism Task Force, radicalized according to one official, by ISIS and other extremist influences. The FBI says Rahim he made threats against police on social media. When officers approached him, Rahim he lunged at them with this knife, authorities say, before a federal agent and Boston police officer fired, hitting him in the torso and abdomen.

WILLIAM EVANS, BOSTON POLICE COMMISSIONER: They gave several commands for him to drop the weapon. And unfortunately he came at the officers, and they do what they were trained to do. And unfortunately they had to take a life, and that's never an easy decision for any officer to do.

FIELD: Rahim's brother, an Imam at a mosque in California, paints a different picture, saying on social media that his younger brother was on his cell phone with their father waiting for the bus when he was confronted by police and shot in the back three times. He says his brother's last words were "I can't breathe."

The shooting is not under investigation and Boston police say they have a video documenting the entire event.

DANIEL CONLEY, SUFFOLK COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: We saw the video, and it appears the law enforcement officers were backing away before they exercised deadly force.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FIELD: All right, so it seems that that surveillance video should resolve any discrepancy as to what exactly went down at the CVS, and to that end Boston police have reached out to black and Islamic community leaders. They have invited them to a private viewing of that surveillance video. Of course at this time, Alisyn, that video, which a lot of people want to see, is not being made public. It's a key part of the investigation. It's up to the district attorney's office to determine when and if that video will be released more widely, Alisyn.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: And it will be interesting to hear their impressions after they se that video. Alexandra, thanks so much for all of that.

President Obama said the USA Freedom Act will help keep the country safe while also protecting American's privacy. The new NSA reform measure will do away with one cornerstone of the war on terror. CNN's Dana Bash is live in Washington for us. What do we know about this, Dana?

DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn. Look, if you cut through the drama and the politics, at its core the new law contains the first major changes to the Patriot Act since 9/11, especially on thos controversial surveillance programs.

Let's take a look at those changes. For the first time, telecommunication companies, not the government, will store data collected in this dragnet program, and if the government wants access to the data, they're actually going to need a warrant. And the court that oversees all of that, the so called FISA court, which is top secret now, will be a lot more transparent.

Everybody out there is asking when can we see bipartisanship and things getting done in Washington? Well, guess what, this is it. You're looking at it. This was a bipartisan compromise, the product of something from the White House, some of the most liberal and most conservative members of the House, a really unusual alliance.

And this usually means that it also takes place in the Senate, but the guy who usually cuts those deals, you're looking at him right now, Mitch McConnell, the Republican leader, he strongly objected. He thinks that this compromise which is now the law changes these programs to the point where it makes them so weak that it threatens national security. But because his attempts to make changes didn't work, his amendments failed, that's why this is the law of the land.

And one other thing I should note, of course, is that we have been paying a lot of attention to this because of McConnell's miscalculation in that his junior colleague from Kentucky, Rand Paul, he was determined to do whatever it took to derail these programs, filibuster every single move that he could, and because that the programs went dark on Sunday night at midnight, they expired. So the question is, when are they going to reboot, so to speak. We're told it's going to three or four days because of technical or logistical reasons. Chris?

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Dana, so my pushback would be that, yes, you have a bipartisan situation, kind of, but the question is, were they all running scared in the wrong way?

[08:05:02] Let's discuss why I say that. We have Kentucky Republican Congressman Thomas Massie. He's a Rand Paul man himself. He's voted against the USA Freedom Act. He's in line with Senator Paul on this issue. He's actually introduced legislation to repeal the Patriot Act as well. Congressman, thank you for joining us.

Why do I put out this supposition about what this was about, because it really came down to section 215 and the surveillance? Let's put up what the freedom act does so they get what the new will do. It shifts metadata storage to the phone companies. The government doesn't get to keep your data or phone numbers. It goes to the phone company. Government must petition for metadata access meaning they have to go to the court and get a warrant in order to get the different data that they used to just have already. And there's some transparency of the FISA court there in terms of what they say, so it's not as much of a rubber stamp. We're not really sure how it's going to work yet.

You say you don't like it. It doesn't go far enough in terms of protecting people in the surveillance level. Why?

REP. THOMAS MASSIE, (R) KENTUCKY: First of all, this is a step in the right direction, but this is just the tip of the iceberg. And you are right, this is section 215, this only deals with the metadata that's been collected on all Americans.

My concern is that the FISA court doesn't have a true advocate for civil liberties. The FISA court that we're still relying on is the gatekeeper to all this information whether the phone companies keep it or the government keeps. It's the same FISA court that issued a warrant that covered every American in this country. And back in the revolution, they called those general warrants, and that's why we have a Fourth Amendment. It says you have to have specific warrants.

CUOMO: You know a lot of legal types do not believe this is a general warrant. There are key distinctions between a general warrant and what this court is doing, and technically they are the advocate for liberty. That's what they're doing is making sure that what is asked for doesn't offend the constitution.

MASSIE: They are judged that a lot of them were prosecutors. There is no advocate there. In the in the first version of the Freedom Act we put an advocate in there and that got watered down. It's clearly a general warrant. The warrant they gave Verizon, it covered all Americans. It would make King George III blush, in fact.

CUOMO: No, except that a general warrants means that they have a completely open-ended ability to do thing. And here, what they did here -- I know you have your constitution.

MASSIE: I got it here.

CUOMO: Go look it up in the Fourth Amendment, it's unreasonable searches and seizures.

MASSIE: Naming the specific persons and things to be searched or seized. It's "specific." It really stretches the word "specific" to say that everybody who is a Verizon customer is specific.

CUOMO: Well, it was about -- I think it goes to the scare tactic that wound up pushing us in the direction we are right now. They weren't listening to your conversations. They weren't getting personal information about you. This was about storage of phone numbers so that once they identify a suspect they had a thumbnail, quick way to get the universe of possibility of who else they were dealing with, and a lot of the Intel community, including a former colleague of yours, Mike Rogers, believes this was a big mistake, that you scare people about privacy, and now you've taken an important tool away from investigators that makes things longer.

MASSIE: There is a misunderstanding, you are right, about this program, this just collects phone data. Now, you can get a lot of personal information about somebody, you can determine their religion, their political leanings based on who they called. There is another program that hasn't been reformed yet, and it will be up for authorization in two years. It's section 702, and it deals with the actual content of your e-mails and Internet chats, and I think hopefully we will be able to get a chance to reform that as well.

CUOMO: Well, that is a key distinction here between this is just telephone, it doesn't capture those other types of digital media. That is a fair point. But let's look at the poll about where people's heads are in terms of what they want to keep themselves safe. You have 61 percent said Congress should renew the NSA surveillance program, OK. And then even along party lines you see people want this there. Do you believe your friend and colleague, Senator Rand Paul, pushed this privacy thing a little bit too much in his case for political gain?

MASSIE: No, not at all. And look at a Pew poll that just came out a few weeks ago that says 54 percent Americans said don't think there is enough checks on the government when they collect data on us.

CUOMO: Is it because of what they now believe the government does because of what people like you told them?

MASSIE: Well, you know, we have revelations and we know more about this program than we did before Edward Snowden came forward with this, and those are facts, they haven't been disputed, and those facts have led people to those conclusions.

CUOMO: Well, they have been greatly disputed, as you know. I mean, people not only criticized Snowden for doing what people believe amounted to a felony, but to many of the journalists for how they put out the information and wound up leaking certain information that may have been dangerous. And you say it's a general warrant when a lot of legal experts would argue it's not a general warrant and that it doesn't open up people to having their intimate secrets revealed by the government so easily, and that winds up having a cumulative effect on people's feelings.

[08:10:10] MASSIE: I agree with you. We can dispute the method whether it was legal or whether he should have even released this information. We would like to see more whistleblower protection so that Edward Snowden wouldn't have to do this. So you can dispute the way the information came to the public, but you can't dispute the facts. These are facts, these are actual documents that came from the NSA.

CUOMO: Right. The irony there is that Snowden in the defense of peoples' liberty and these journalist that put it out wound up dumping a lot of information on people into the open market, which is ironic, to say the least. However, the Intel experts, and again, Mike Rogers, give him a phone call. He will say they were not listening to people's phone calls. They were doing this in a sensitive way.

MASSIE: You know what, Mike Rogers let us down. He failed us. All 435 congressmen can't know the secrets so we can trust the select Intel committee to know the secrets, and they're supposed to make sure that these laws aren't being interpreted illegally by the NSA, and the second highest court in the land just determined last month that the NSA was breaking the law. And really, you know, the previous chairman and select Intel committee should have been aware of that, should have brought that to the attention of the rest of Congress.

CUOMO: And I like the way you word it, by the way, because Senator Rand Paul makes a suggestion, and again, I use the word suggestion, he doesn't say it outright, but he suggests that the surveillance program was found unconstitutional and therefore that's the proof it must be changed. You just made the right point, which is no one said it was unconstitutional. They said it exceed the legislative mandate put forth in section 215, which is the courts way of saying change the law, not that it offends the constitution. That's a big difference.

MASSIE: Exceeded the legislative mandate. That means they broke the law, that's what the court of appeals said.

CUOMO: But it's not unconstitutional.

MASSIE: You're right, they didn't rule on the constitutionality. You're absolutely right about that. But that kind of tortured language exceeded the legislation. That's a euphemism for they broke the law. It's kind of like when James Clapper lied to Congress and then told us, well, I said the least untruthful thing I could come up with.

CUOMO: I accept that. Why stretch it and say unconstitutional, because it then feeds the idea that the government is doing something to us, and senator --

MASSIE: It's a violation. Senator Paul, he said the program is unconstitutional, and I believe it was unconstitutional as well. And if you go back and listen to him, he hasn't said the court said that it was unconstitutional. He's read the court opinion and he knows they said it was illegal and not unconstitutional. But that doesn't change the fact we do believe it's unconstitutional, but they just didn't rule on that. They didn't rule that it was constitutional or unconstitutional. They left that up for another appeal.

CUOMO: Understood, and this is a conversation that will continue. Congressman Massie, thank you for joining us on NEW DAY.

MASSIE: Thank you very much, Chris.

CUOMO: Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Chris, President Obama's job performance ratings show a slide. Just three months ago the majority of Americans felt the country was headed in the right direction. Now new CNN poll numbers suggest Americans are growing more pessimistic. Senior White House correspondent Jim Acosta joins to break down the numbers. They can't be happy in that building behind you, Jim.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It's kind of like the weather here in Washington, this morning, Alisyn. A little soggy, these poll numbers, for the president. After the president's poll numbers were approaching that coveted 50 percent range early this year, public satisfaction with the job he is doing is sliding once again.

Take a look at the numbers, how the president is handling his job, according to our new CNN/ORC poll, 45 percent approve, 52 percent approve. Those numbers match almost how Americans feel about the economy and the way the economy is being handled by the president right now.

But the big drag on the president's numbers, and that's the story this morning, they are very disapproving of his job on ISIS and government surveillance. Roughly two-thirds of Americans don't approve of the way he has handled those issues. Look at that, 63 disapprove of the job of handling ISIS, 32 percent approve. And on government surveillance, even worse how the president is handling that issue, 67 percent disapprove, 29 percent approve.

But the most surprising number of the morning I think deals with how the public views the president's predecessor, President George W. Bush. The opinion of George W. Bush, 52 percent favorable, 43 percent unfavorable. That's better than the president of the United States right now. Of course people tend to view former presidents a little better than they do when they are in the White House. But that is George W. Bush's highest approve numbers since 2005 and perhaps offers some reassurance to his brother Jeb that the Bush name is on the mend.

CUOMO: Nothing more popular than an out of office president. Jim Acosta, thank you very much.

So Interpol adding six names to its international most wanted list for the FIFA scandal that is now widening. [08:15:00] Just four days after his reelection, Sepp Blatter surprised

everyone by announcing he is going to resign as the FIFA president. The FBI is now reportedly zeroing in on him in a corruption case.

Let's get to CNN's Amanda Davies following developments live in Zurich. Shocker. What comes next?

AMANDA DAVIES, CNN WORLD SPORTS ANCHOR: Well, that is the big question, Chris. Sepp Blatter announced yesterday that he was going to step down, surprising the world with that hastily called press conference. He gave us just 90 minutes' notice, but I can tell you he is back in his office, sitting behind his desk, here in Zurich. This morning, he called a staff meeting to address the staff at FIFA House about what has happened over the last week or so.

But the question is what more is there to come? Because we know that the FBI are investigating Sepp Blatter. No charges or allegations made as of yet. Loretta Lynch, the lady in charge of this FBI investigation, she's actually been speaking in Latvia today; well, she said official notifications in terms of the case will go through the official channels. She did send FIFA a message which made people smile, wishing them the best as they strive to get back to providing and regulating the sport of football.

And that of course is the big challenge, how to move forward with so many investigations go into what was happening in days gone by. And we understand that, a little bit later today, at the court in Brooklyn, the FBI will present the transcript of the guilty plea from the FIFA former executive, Chuck Blazer, that started this incredible chain of events unfolding.

CAMEROTA: OK, Amanda, thank you for all of that background.

Well, this is an incredible story. A San Diego woman accused of running over a motorcyclist in a deadly act of road rage. The horrifying moment was caught on camera and we want to warn you this video is disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA (voice-over): An alleged fit of road rage gone too far in Chula Vista, California. This morning, 26-year-old Darla Jackson in custody after a judge set a million dollar bail over a road rage killing.

STEPHEN CLINE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: She's very sorry. She's very scared, she's very upset, she's very traumatized.

CAMEROTA: Jackson shaking and crying at her arraignment Tuesday, charged with the murder of 39-year-old Zachary Buob, a Navy chief petty office and special ops. Cell phone video capturing Jackson's car tailing Buob's motorcycle just moments before she allegedly knocked him off with her car and then ran him over.

LAURA EVANS, DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Per some witness statements, it appeared to that it was a deliberate and intentional act. CAMEROTA: But Jackson's attorney says Buob was angry too. He says

it's still unclear what exactly happened in those last 30 seconds before the Navy officer was hit and killed.

CLINE: He got mad about something. He kicked her car. She chased after him and they collided at the end when they ran into traffic.

CAMEROTA: Descending on the courthouse Tuesday, a sea of motorcycle riders calling for justice and more awareness of car-motorcycle safety when sharing the road.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No person should ever have to run us off the road, let alone kill them.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: All right, so people are said to be starving in North Korea, but apparently Kim Jong-un is not one of them. In pictures just released by state media, Kim appears to have put on a significant amount of weight. The Supreme Leader is seen inspecting crops on a farm, and in another photo, visiting an orphanage. Kim Jong-un's health is closely monitored for fears of a potential uprising in North Korea.

CAMEROTA: All right, well, there are those new poll numbers out about President Obama's job performance. They're not welcome news for the White House, so what do they mean? Why are they slipping? We'll dig deeper.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:22:27] CAMEROTA: Well, the president's approval ratings --

CUOMO: How do you know?

CAMEROTA: Well, I know this because we have a new CNN/ORC poll to show that 52 percent of Americans disapprove of his job performance, Chris.

CUOMO: Ah, now I get it.

CAMEROTA: And the majority of the country also believes things are going badly in America.

CUOMO: Why? Why do they think this?

CAMEROTA: Let's find out. Let's break it down with --

CUOMO: Yes, I have to know.

CAMEROTA: -- our CNN political commentators. Paul Begala, he's a Democratic strategist and co-chair of a pro-Hillary Clinton Super PAC and long time adviser to President Clinton in the '90s. And Ana Navarro, a Republican strategist, who is a supporter of Jeb Bush, an adviser to other GOP candidates. Great to have both of you. Paul, I'll start with you. Why are we

seeing this flip in terms of Americans' impressions of President Obama's handling of his job?

PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think -- first of all I think it was his predecessor George W. Bush who said, "This presidentin' is hard." It's a hard job. The economy is still soft. We haven't seen the movement, especially in median family income, that all of us want. And then troubling news overseas. You've been covering it all morning -- Ramadi has fallen to ISIS, problems at home with Congress trying to renew sections of the Patriot Act, all of this stuff.

But this is like -- let me step back a little. This is the metric to watch. A lot of it, even in our poll, a lot of this phony head to head, oh, does Hillary beat Jeb Bush head to head? That doesn't matter. No serious strategist is looking at that now. They are looking at this. How's the president's job approval? How's the right direction-wrong track of the country? That's a metric to watch over time. At this stage of his presidency, George W. Bush was in the 30s, and John McCain didn't have a chance to win. President Clinton was in the 50s and Gore actually won and then the Supreme Court stole. President Obama right where Ronald Reagan was, he's almost exactly where Ronald Reagan was. And remember, Ronald Reagan's vice president did succeed him. So it's not great, but it's good enough to win.

CUOMO: Ana, whenever Begala speeds up, you know you're about to get a zinger in the kidney.

(LAUGHTER)

CUOMO: I mean, he is right. Apples to apples, he's right about Bush's numbers at this time. He was in the 30s; he was at 38 percent. Really only Clinton was ahead of 50 percent at this time. So there is somewhat of a history of not being great.

But let's get to the reasons why here. And it seems like you have two. You have a disconnect between Wall Street and Main Street, that what people feel in running their household company is not the same as what people are finding on Wall Street. And that there is a disconnect. And then there's ISIS. That's where he takes a big hit, the president, on the strategy for dealing with problems abroad; he takes an eight point hit. What's your take?

ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, I think many couples get a seven-year itch and I think many presidents get a seven-year itch. And I think we are seeing Obama having to survive his seven- year itch now.

[08:25:07] And what we've been seeing in the news lately has not been good for President Obama. I think some of the progressives are turned off by his support of trade promotion authority. I think some of the progressives in his party who had come back to him after the 2014 election are turned off by things like his support of the NSA and the extension of the Patriot Act. And I also think there is wide discontent that cuts across party lines

and every demographic group over his handling of ISIS. We have seen setbacks for the U.S. in its fight against ISIS, its fight against terror, in the last few weeks. And that's taking a toll on the American people.

CAMEROTA: Ana, I want to stick with you for a second because of your connection to Jeb Bush. Jeb Bush was -- he has not announced yet, as we all know -- and he got a little testy, frankly, yesterday when he was asked by a reporter about his record. So listen to this moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH (R), FORMER GOVERNOR OF FLORIDA: I think my record of accomplishment as Governor of Florida is one that I can take to Republican voters, and if I am successful there, to a larger audience. To say that --

NEIL CAVUTO, FBN HOST: It doesn't -- it's been a while.

BUSH: It's been a while since the governor has cut taxes every year, totaling $19 billion. It's been a while for a governor to have shrunk the workforce by 13,000. It's been a while for many states to go to AA bond rated status. It's been a while for the kind of prosperity that we had.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Ana, it sounds like he's sort of itching to get in and make his case?

NAVARRO: I think his announcement is going to be coming soon. He has been saying that consistently. I was there yesterday when that interview took place. Alisyn, that is not a testy Jeb Bush; I've seen the testy Jeb Bush. I know the testy Jeb Bush. I suspect we're going to see the testy Jeb Bush at some point.

That's the Jeb Bush that is touting his record and reminding people of the things he did. What he brings to the table as a candidate is his experience in Florida. He had a very good reception yesterday; he owned the room at that event in Florida. And part of it is because it was a crowd that lived in Florida when he was governor, that remembers all the things he did. And I think it's been a little bit hard for Jeb to learn how to brag about himself. It's not something the Bushes have done very well, and he says he's always constantly afraid of his mother's shadow telling him, you know, Jeb, don't be braggadocios. But, you know, he's got to do it, he's go to -- he's not the known commodity he used to be.

CUOMO: Yes, he's in the wrong business if he wants to be humble.

NAVARRO: Exactly.

CUOMO: He's in the wrong business.

NAVARRO: TV and politics is not for humble people. (LAUGHTER)

CUOMO: No, listen -- and they are very different. They are worlds apart as well, let me tell you.

And he needs to get in the race; that will make things a lot easier, too. Sometimes the process winds up becoming the problem.

Begala, speaking of which, if you look at what's going on with problems abroad and the president, can you make the case that it is his fault crossing the red line, calling them JV, saying we don't have a strategy? These are things that he said -- context, rightly, wrongly -- but he got himself into it, didn't he?

BEGALA: Well, first of all, ISIS exists because we, the United States, under President Bush, George W. Bush, invaded Iraq and upended Saddam's regime. It's many of Saddam's generals now who are helping to run --

CUOMO: And people say neglected Iraq in recent years, allowing it to foment. What about that piece?

BEGALA We kept thousands of troops there for a decade, and finally, thank god, they're coming home. This is an Iraqi --

CUOMO: You pulled out --

BEGALA: Yes, thank god. This is an Iraqi problem.

CUOMO: But that's why this happened? That's the point.

BEGALA: Fundamentally, the Iraqis have to solve their problem. The president and the American people do not want to send troops back in. Now the Republicans, some candidates in their party, want more troops in Iraq. Let's have that debate. But I do think the president gets blamed for anything that goes wrong, and that's the way our system works.

But if the debate is let's reconquer, reinvade, reoccupy Iraq -- let's repeat the biggest foreign policy disaster of the last 50 years -- I think that's a debate that the interventionists are going to lose.

CAMEROTA: Paul, Ana, great to see you. Thanks so much.

BEGALA: Thanks.

NAVARRO: Thank you.

CUOMO: Problem here to discuss. Violent crime -- the numbers tell the truth -- surging in major cities, including the one we are sitting in right now. Are illegal guns triggering the spike? Is that the reason for it? What do you think? We test it ahead.

[08:30:30]

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