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Authorities Foil Terrorist Plot to Kill Police Officers & Activist; Baltimore Asks for Federal Help to Fight Crime; ISIS is Using Water as Weapon in Iraq; Baltimore's Top Cop Blames Looters for Violence. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired June 04, 2015 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Boston terror suspect plotted to behead Pamela Geller. She organized the Prophet Mohammed cartoon contest in Garland, Texas.

[05:59:04] PAMELA GELLER, ORGANIZED PROPHET MOHAMMED CARTOON CONTEST (via phone): It won't end with me. This is just the beginning.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police commissioner saying that much of the violence is being driven by the pharmacies robbed.

COMMISSIONER ANTHONY BATTS, BALTIMORE POLICE DEPARTMENT: Criminals are selling those stolen drugs. I am submitting a request to ask for more federal agents to assist us in this battle.

RICK PERRY (R), FORMER TEXAS GOVERNOR: We have the power to make our country new again.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Former Texas governor Rick Perry set to toss his Stetson into the Republican presidential race.

ANITA PERRY, GOVERNOR RICK PERRY'S WIFE: America's really seen this promising person he could be.

MICHELLE DUGGAR, REALITY TV STAR: Josh has done some very bad things.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're victims. They can't do this to us.

DUGGAR: He's very sorry.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota and Michaela Pereira.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Thursday, June 4, 6 a.m. in the east. And we have new information for you on that plot in Boston.

Federal authorities now say the terror suspect who was shot dead by cops when he came at them with a knife was planning on beheading police officers, called "the boys in blue." But he had other targets, as well.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Now authorities say they had the suspect and two of his associates under 24-hour surveillance before police killed Usaama Rahim, the suspect. Federal officials say their disturbing plot included wanting to behead a controversial free-speech activist who organized that cartoon contest about the Prophet Mohammed in Garland, Texas.

Let's begin our coverage with CNN's Alexandra Fields. She is live in Boston. A lot of information has come out overnight, Alexandra. What do we know today?

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Alisyn. At this point we know that -- we know why police decided to move in on Usaama Rahim after watching him for years. It doesn't just that his behavior had suddenly changed. It seems his plans had changed.

Court documents now reveal that he had allegedly cooked up two different plans in the days before his death. It seems that he had decided to switch targets and accelerate the time line for his attack.

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FIELD (voice-over): The original plot was allegedly sinister and gruesome, according to law enforcement officials. The FBI believes Boston terror suspect Usaama Rahim's original plan was to behead Pamela Geller, a controversial activist and conservative blogger.

According to an FBI affidavit, 26-year-old Rahim purchases this Marine fighting knife on Amazon on May 25. The following day, on the 26th, he allegedly makes a phone call to his nephew. Twenty-five- year-old David Wright now being charged with destroying evidence on Rahim's smartphone.

The FBI says Rahim told his nephew about the knife over the phone and that Wright later responded with a reference, investigators say, to terrorist beheadings.

The next day, on May 27, the FBI intercepts the Amazon package, X-rays it, and finds the knife and a knife sharpener. But then abruptly this week on Tuesday, the FBI says Rahim calls his nephew, saying he's changing the plan, because he can't wait that long. Instead, he's going to go after the boys in blue, and Rahim reveals his plan to randomly kill police officers in Massachusetts on Tuesday or Wednesday.

This supposed escalation, investigators say, is what prompted them to approach Rahim at this shopping center Tuesday morning.

WILLIAM EVANS, BOSTON POLICE COMMISSIONER: The video clearly shows these four or five officers backtracking away from the suspect as he's coming at them.

FIELD: On Wednesday, investigators showed the surveillance video of the shooting to community leaders.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We do see a very vague video that is not clear as to what transpired. He wasn't at a bus stop. He wasn't shot in the back. And there's no detail, enough clear on the video to tell us exactly what happened. However, he was approaching them. They did back up. And evidently, by evidence of his death, he was fired upon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FIELD: Some two dozen community leaders were invited to privately watch that surveillance video here at the Boston Police headquarters. At the time we're told that Rahim's family had not yet seen the video.

Of course, that video has not been made public as it's part of the investigation.

But we are learning some new details about this investigation from the court documents, including this, Alisyn. Police believe that Rahim and Wright had spoken to a third person, a person in Rhode Island in the days before Rahim's death. That person has not been charged, and authorities have not publicly identified who that person is, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Alexandra. Thanks so much for all that information.

Joining us now to discuss it is CNN national security analyst and former homeland security adviser from Massachusetts, Juliette Kayyem; and the president and CEO of the Urban League of Eastern Massachusetts, Darnell Williams, who was one of the community leaders who saw that surveillance tape of Rahim's shooting.

Good morning to both of you.

DARNELL WILLIAMS, CEO, URBAN LEAGUE OF EASTERN MASSACHUSETTS: Good morning.

CAMEROTA: Juliette, I want to begin with you, because when you and I were talking yesterday, we didn't know exactly what had been the catalyst to make police move in at 7 a.m. that morning. But now we do.

It turns out that two hours before he was killed, they heard him say that he wanted to do an attack on the boys in blue. What does it say to you?

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: That's exactly right. That was the affidavit released yesterday. It was the missing piece, which is what sped up the process so that the FBI and the Boston Police would do an approach in public, in a CVS parking lot? Not an ideal situation.

And it's just clear now, because of the surveillance and wiretapping of the phone lines between Wright and Rahim and this third party, that the attack was going to happen yesterday at the latest -- I'm sorry, Tuesday, at the latest on Wednesday. So they really had no choice.

And that was the missing piece when we were talking yesterday. I kept saying something happened, because you just don't do this. And I think that now we know what happened. They heard that the attack was going to be on Tuesday.

CAMEROTA: Yes. Juliette, it's so interesting to watch how police cracked this case. I mean, again, great police work. Because we've been talking about how hard it is to track people who are ISIS- inspired.

[06:05:10] And yet they did all the right things in this case, including they noticed a change in his behavior in terms of social media threats. And they were on top of it.

KAYYEM: That's exactly right. So -- because the Joint Terrorism Task Force will have hundreds of investigations going on at any time. Based on additional surveillance, including at some point a court allowing a wiretap to occur, you then get this focus on Rahim as not just some crazy guy online who likes ISIS but someone who's really planning a serious attack.

I mean, that knife and the fact that they were able to disrupt the Amazon.com order like you and I do every day, take pictures of it. They knew what he was planning.

So it is true this was a lot of the lessons learned after the Boston Marathon bombing in terms of that real jointness of the Joint Terrorism Task Force. And the really only part that didn't work, according to plan, and the Boston Police chief was quite clear about it, is they did not anticipate that interaction in the parking lot to be essentially the last interaction with Rahim.

CAMEROTA: One last question before I get to Mr. Williams, and that is this strange development that his original target was that he wanted to come to New York and find Pamela Geller and behead Pamela Geller...

KAYYEM: Yes.

CAMEROTA: ... who, of course, is this, you know, controversial person who has had the -- staged the cartoon contest for the drawing of the Prophet Mohammed. We're going to have her later on, on NEW DAY. Do authorities alert someone? When they find out that someone is being targeted, do they tell that person?

KAYYEM: Sometimes they do not, because they don't know how serious the threat is.

Look, I personally, as someone who sort of deals with enough intolerance throughout the world, you know, sort of abhor what she -- what she stands for. But nonetheless, she has every right to express those viewpoints.

They may not have notified her just because, to be honest, she's probably getting so many threats through various other people who are agitated by her. And unless they really thought that he was going to New York to do it, they wouldn't have notified her.

Look, terrorists like this really like convenience. They want it to be easy for themselves. And I think that explains Rahim's change in plans. It was probably going to be hard for him to get to New York and find her, so she then does an easier thing, which is finding any police officer on the street.

CAMEROTA: OK. Mr. Williams, we want to ask you, because you were one of the community leaders brought in to watch the surveillance video of how this whole shooting went down. Can you describe what you saw on that video?

WILLIAMS: Well, basically we were able to see the tape and see the suspect cross the parking lot from one end of the parking lot, slowly proceeding towards the street level. And there were a couple of items that really kind of obstructed our view.

It was pointed out to us in the video that there were two police vehicles, FBI and Boston Police officials that were watching him. He was under surveillance.

As the video continued to play, three officers started to approach the suspect, and then we could see that they started to back up from the suspect. Then we can see that their hands were raised with the guns lifted. Now we were told this. You can't tell this from the video, that there were four commands for the suspect to drop the weapon.

From our vantage point we could not see the weapon because of the poor quality of the video. But we do -- it's not likely that you would see a police officer, three of them, in fact, backing up from someone...

CAMEROTA: Right.

WILLIAMS: ... unless there was somewhat of an imminent threat.

CAMEROTA: And let me just stop you for one...

WILLIAMS: So as a result we saw that.

CAMEROTA: Because I want to ask you about...

WILLIAMS: Sure.

CAMEROTA: ... what the suspect's brother said. He had said that the suspect was on the cell phone to their father at the time of the shooting and that he was shot in the back. Did you see either of those things?

WILLIAMS: No, I did not. And I actually went on record yesterday, saying that that was not what we saw in the video. Even the imam stated that he was shot, not from the back. Did not appear from our vantage point that he was on a cell phone. And the only question I would ask, who would take that kind of a weapon to a job and what job was he going to at that time of the morning? CAMEROTA: Yes.

WILLIAMS: So I think the questions of what we really saw was that he was shot, apparently three times, two shots from -- as reported by the FBI...

CAMEROTA: Yes.

WILLIAMS: ... and one shot by Boston Police. And he went down. That's what we can see on the video very clearly.

CAMEROTA: And Mr. Williams, you know, this is an unusual move for the Boston Police Department to call in community leaders such as yourself and show them this surveillance video. They didn't have to do that. Why do you think they chose to do that?

[06:10:03] WILLIAMS: Well, actually, this is not the first time that they've done it. I believe this is the second or third time where we've had incidents where the Boston Police commissioner and superintendent in chief, community leaders, clergy and civil rights leaders, have come up with a game plan that we would see a video, whether it's good or bad, so that we can offer our opinion in terms of what transpired, was it above -- was the protocol followed? And if there are questions of improvement.

We did not -- we do not believe that Boston should be viewed as a Ferguson or other cities where there's not a dialogue, where there's not a relationship or trust building...

CAMEROTA: Yes.

WILLIAMS: ... between the community and police. And we wanted to demonstrate. So that's why we did it.

CAMEROTA: And it sure seems to be working, at least in this case in Boston, to quell any sort of unrest there.

Mr. Williams, Juliette Kayyem, thanks so much for all of the information. Great to talk to both of you.

All right. We will talk to the target of the beheading plot, Pamela Geller, live in our 8 a.m. hour. Stick around for that.

Let's go to Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Alisyn. Here's something you don't hear very often. Baltimore's police commissioner is appealing directly to the federal government for help to fight a spike in violent crime. It's an unusual move prompted by unusual circumstances. A flood of illegal drugs that were looted during riots there. That's what the commissioner blames for this surge.

CNN's Miguel Marquez is live in Baltimore with the latest. Good morning, Miguel.

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning there, Chris. This is a police commissioner who is in the hot seat. He has an upset civilian population and a demoralized police force, really struggling to try to get it all under control. May, the worst month they've had for murders since 1972, 43 people killed. The murder rate overall for the year up 40 percent, up to 119 murders. The police chief saying here there are more drugs on Baltimore's streets than ever before.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COMMISSIONER ANTHONY BATTS, BALTIMORE POLICE DEPARTMENT: There's enough narcotics on the streets of Baltimore to keep it intoxicated for a year. Criminals are selling those stolen drugs. There are turf wars happening, which are leading to violence and shootings in our city.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUEZ: Now one thing I've asked Baltimore police is why. Why are those drugs creating more crime on their streets. We do know that a lot of the drug dealers in this town that already has a drug problem were unable to sell drugs during the time of the riots. There was a lot of turf wars and a lot of neighborhood fighting over turf immediately following the riots here.

But those drugs seem to be adding fuel to an already burning fire here. And the question now is what will all these federal agents do? It is not entirely clear. They've had a lot of help over the years, but presumably, they will be here to help investigate the many, many crimes that Baltimore Police say occurred here during -- during the riots. Hundreds of -- hundreds of businesses were robbed during those riots, 27 of them pharmacies and two methadone clinics, says the police commissioner -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Oh my gosh. What a development. Miguel, thanks so much for that.

Well, ISIS has a new weapon, and it's water. The extremists closing the gates of a dam in Ramadi, threatening thousands of civilian lives. CNN senior international correspondent Nick Paton Walsh is live for us in Baghdad with this story -- Nick.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Remarkable details we're learning, Alisyn, about exactly what ISIS is doing at this key dam near Ramadi, a city they recently took.

They seem to have closed off nearly all of its gates, allowing a couple to open daily to let water flow downstream to a town they hold, Fallujah that is downstream. But the impact, that is remarkable on two fronts.

Firstly, it's making many in the area fear exactly how much water they're going to have to live off agriculturally in terms of daily life in the months ahead. And there are reports of dozens of families simply fleeing that area, trapped between ISIS Ramadi and ISIS Fallujah.

Secondly, because the river is lower, there's a possibility that ISIS fighters could, in fact, cross the river and attack positions held by pro-government forces there now. Water as a weapon, something many have feared happening in this extraordinarily hot region in the summer. It seems to be happening now just as the U.N. is saying they need half a billion dollars now to deal with the 8 to 10 million people who are currently at threat here in Iraq. Troubling developments here.

Back to you.

CUOMO: All right, Nick. Thank you very much.

We want to tell you about a terrible scene on China's Yangtze River. How many are still trapped or entombed in the hull of a capsized cruise ship here? You see the workers just working feverishly, trying to get through that hull for signs of life. So far they've found none.

Seventy-five bodies have been identified. That number continues to grow. Remember, there were well over 400 people on board. Hundreds are still unaccounted for more than two and a half days after the Eastern Star overturned during a violent storm. Authorities are still investigating the cause.

[06:15:06] CAMEROTA: Well, the Pentagon anthrax scandal getting bigger. Officials confirming that live anthrax samples were mistakenly sent to as many as 51 labs in 17 states and three countries. That's nearly double what was original reported. The number expected to increase. The Pentagon says there have been no reported cases of anthrax infections and claims the samples were not intentionally sent.

CUOMO: So here's a first. The Duggar parents from the TLC show "19 Kids and Counting" are speaking out about the molestation scandal that is rocking their family. Jim Bob and Michelle told FOX News they were crushed when their eldest son, Josh, confessed to molesting five underage girls when he was a teenager himself. Four of them were his own sisters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DUGGAR: I think as parents we felt we're failures. You know, here we tried to raise our kids to do what's right, to know what's right, and yet one of our children made some really bad choices. And I think as a parent we were just, we were devastated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Two of the abused daughters, Jill and Jessa, also spoke out, saying what their brother did was wrong. But they do not believe he should be labeled a child molester.

We're going to talk about this more later on. This is the new "Kate and 8," you know, times two plus some; but the dynamic very different.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely. There's so much to discuss with it. Well, meanwhile, so are illegal drugs driving up crime in

Baltimore or is bad policing to blame? We'll take a closer look at the crisis on the streets of Charm City.

CUOMO: And Ted Cruz makes a joke about Joe Biden right after his son dies. That is the truth, and the reaction ahead.

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[06:20:47] CUOMO: Baltimore's police commissioner, Anthony Batts, claims the recent surge of violence in his city is the result of the flood of streets that happened after looting that happened in April. Now he is asking for federal help directly to control his streets.

Let's discuss the situation and the needed fix with investigator reporter for "The Baltimore Sun," Mark Puente, and Reverend Jamal Bryant, pastor of the Empowerment Temple Church. He's an organizer in the community. He's been having unity rallies in Baltimore.

Gentlemen, thank you.

Mark, let's start with you. The idea that so many drugs, illegal drugs, prescription drugs were taken at pharmacies during the riots that they are flooding the streets. What is the factual basis for that?

MARK PUENTE, "THE BALTIMORE SUN": Well, what the police commissioner reported yesterday and "The Baltimore Sun" reported online Friday, in our paper Saturday, that dozens of pharmacies were looted, the narcotics were taken; and we found several pharmacy owners who said that their most powerful drugs were taken. And the police have yet, a month after they were taken, taken reports or went to look at the surveillance video that we uncovered.

CUOMO: All right. So those are both very interesting. So there's definitely the supply. They were definitely looted. This is definitely the kind of stuff that has street value. Fact.

However, the idea that he needs help now, what has the police force been doing until now? You're saying that there was no follow-up of these pharmacies. Was that the job of the Baltimore cops, or was that handed off to the feds and the DEA?

PUENTE: Well, the pharmacy owners and the DEA said that they'd report them to the DEA. The police and the DEA did say that they're backed up. They'll get to them eventually. They're working jointly to do it.

But let's not forget: the commissioner asked for federal help for this. The DOJ is investigating for the pattern or practice. They're investigating the Freddie Gray death. The DOJ is investigating the cops, the cops' office is doing a pattern and practice. So the Department of Justice, a big role in the policing going forward in Baltimore.

CUOMO: So -- and that's interesting. They're already there, but you know, is that a good or bad thing?

So Reverend, let's take it to you. What do you make of the commissioner saying he needs help now to control the streets?

REV. JAMAL BRYANT, EMPOWERMENT TEMPLE CHURCH: I think it's a cop-out. What they're not reporting, not by the commissioner or "The Sun" is not just the rise in homicides but the rise of ODs that have happened.

If, in fact, his theory is correct, then, that these are addicts who are doing it. They ought to be easier to catch insomuch as their senses are down. It's slower and harder for them to move and to get around.

What's evident is under the bloodiest month that Baltimore has ever had, what the commissioner didn't say is how arrests are down, as is the morale of those who are a part of the Baltimore Police Department. A critical point is, yes, they need more funding, but so do those who are victims. Is that there's a clear connection between poverty and climb.

Poverty is clearly of the punishment for somebody who didn't commit the crime. And so there needs to be funding, but it's not for policing but for job training, and for opportunities and for education in our city. And when that is infused, you're going to see a complete turnaround happen within Baltimore.

CUOMO: Here's the dilemma. Right? I mean, if it were that simple to cure poverty, you would have to believe if anybody had blood pumping through their heart, we would have cured it by now. You need resources on both sides, Reverend.

You need the policing there now more than ever, because you have the spike in crime. And the police commissioner said his cops are doing the best they can. They haven't slacked off on the job, no matter how they feel about being demonized by the community. But that this isn't just addicts. It's gangs that have these drugs, and it's upped their criminal activity. Fair distinction?

BRYANT: Well, what has happened, which is very critical, is that, while we've had a spike in homicides and violent crimes, that we have, in fact, had a downgrade in the amount of arrests that have taken place. Many of the police officers in Baltimore said that they are a little bit slow in moving, because they're reticent in terms of lawsuits. And so I think that we've got to deal with both sides.

The state's attorney, as well the commissioner has been trying to be a motivational speaker to the police department, because we've seen an intentional slowdown as to how policing is taking place within our community. It's become open season, according to many within the streets of Baltimore. What kind of mentality says to you that, when you commit a crime, it's easier to do it when you know the police are going to be slower to respond?

[06:25:10] CUOMO: A little bit of fair criticism here, Reverend, that you can't have it both ways? You had a lot of people in that community who were going after the police, who were saying it wasn't just about a few bad apples, that they're all bad. It doesn't matter if the cops are black or white, they're still blue.

And now they're saying, "Hey, we need cops. The cops shouldn't slow down," and they're criticizing the cops about that. We don't know that it's slow around slowdown. But is it a fair criticism that, you know, you were demonizing the cops, and now you're saying you need them? It's a little hypocritical.

BRYANT: Well, the -- Dr. King last spoke of chaos or community, where do we go from here? The question is raised, when you put all of the funding in terms of militarization and protection and none into education and stimulation of a community, you're headed towards chaos.

Our own governor in the state of Maryland has earmarked us some $30 million towards the development of a new juvenile detention center at the same time that he's taken away $11 million from Baltimore public schools.

We've not given a universal sweeping statement that there is no good police officers in Baltimore. We have many young men and women who have dedicated their lives to the safety of our streets.

CUOMO: Understood.

BRYANT: What we've asked the commissioner to do and the DOJ is to root out those who are, in fact, malice and have bad intent.

CUOMO: Understood. Mark, let me end with you here. From a factual basis, you've been working it a long time there. You know the communities very well.

People say there's a lot of money that goes into these communities. They have a lot of black representatives. They're all Democrats there who are supposedly about building up the social infrastructure there. Is this just about money, what plagues these communities?

PUENTE: Well, no. Poverty is nothing new in Baltimore, as you pointed out to Mr. Bryant. Baltimore has had poverty issues for decades. These problems are going to take years to fix. Even when the DOJ is done reforming the police department, it's not going to happen overnight. It's going to take years to reform this relationship with the police and the community, moving forward. It's not a quick fix, as is playing out now.

CUOMO: Go ahead. Finish, please.

PUENTE: You know, the DEA and the police have both said these people who stole the drugs, you know, they could have been addicts, but they pointed out they're gangs; and there were calculated moves to get these drugs on the streets when all this trouble was going on last month.

CUOMO: Mark Puente, thank you very much for giving us the factual basis. Jamal -- Reverend Jamal, always a pleasure to have you on the show. We'll continue to follow the story in Baltimore -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Chris. We have some breaking political news involving Jeb Bush. Information just into CNN about if and when he'll get into the race. That's straight ahead.

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