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Giuliani On Clinton Foundation Scrutiny; Jeb Bush Fundraising Under Scrutiny; Rick Perry Joins The 2016 Party; Jeb Bush To Announce 2016 Plans On June 15th; T-Mobile And Dish Network In Talks To Merge; Mammograms Cut Risk For Women 50+. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired June 04, 2015 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: Her taking action favorable to the causes that paid money --

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Is it her or is it the State Department and nine other entities and she didn't really control it?

GIULIANI: That's what the investigation would be about. But there doesn't have to be a quid pro quo for a bribe, for a conflict of interest. Now if there was a quid pro quo, we would be talking bribery. No quid pro quo, if she had knowledge, we have conflict of interest, which by the way bars you from federal office for the rest of your life, they say two years if I recall --

CUOMO: But you think there's enough there, it's not just kind of throwing it out there?

GIULIANI: Way more than enough there to warrant an investigation. In fact I think pretty close to political, if you don't investigate.

CUOMO: What does it mean that they're not? You think it's just because it's friendly administration?

GIULIANI: I think this sort of a question for the Justice Department is not investigating.

CUOMO: Because sometimes just because something is a tantalizing question for me to ask doesn't mean something you as a prosecutor --

GIULIANI: It's now a large number of incidents. There's also a very serious question about how the charity is handled. I assume the attorney general of this state go after charities for far less than the allegations that have made about the Clinton Foundation where they say -- it depends on whose analysis you use. Some of the analysis says only 10 percent get to charitable purposes others say 27 percent.

CUOMO: Right, but that's about effectiveness and distribution of funds not about conflict of interest or anything that should be responsible.

GIULIANI: Attorneys general investigate charities like that.

CUOMO: If they believe that the inefficiency is somehow nefarious.

GIULIANI: At that number?

CUOMO: Doesn't mean it's good in sound.

GIULIANI: Well, I'm going to tell you this, guaranteed. If these allegations came up about one of the Republican candidates, they'd be under investigation.

CUOMO: All right, good. Here's an allegation I think they both share that I want to talk to you about. You have been outspoken through your career that you don't like money in the game. You think it keeps guys like Rudy Giuliani from getting to where he could be.

You did it anyway, but you don't like money in the game. There's criticism that Jeb Bush, there's no question that Democrats are scared out of the field because Hillary has so much money.

Jeb Bush that he didn't announce because he wants to stay playing the game with the super PAC, raising unlimited amounts of money and that's why he's been delaying his announcement, does that as one former FEC member said make a mockery of the law?

GIULIANI: No. It's legal. It's like --

CUOMO: That's a quick answer. I didn't say is it illegal. Does it make a mockery of it?

GIULIANI: No, it's like saying somebody takes full advantage of a tax deduction. As a lawyer, I would advise him to do that. In the case of Jeb Bush or Hillary Clinton or some of the others who have --

CUOMO: They're all playing the same game. I'm just saying if you want to be a leader, leaders go first. Should somebody try to stop this crazy money game?

GIULIANI: Not by depriving yourself of becoming the president of the United States because the other guys can have a much greater advantage.

CUOMO: Delaying the announcement, other guys got in. You didn't get in because you want to raise some limited unlimited amounts.

GIULIANI: They had to go raise the money so he had a different issue.

CUOMO: But a big reason that he's a favorite is because they say is he's going to have so much money, but that's how he is getting it. He is getting it by playing a game that's unfair.

GIULIANI: That's the reason Hillary Clinton --

CUOMO: Fair point, that's why I said they --

GIULIANI: The reality is you play by the rules that exist. You go change the rules and everybody will play by different rules.

CUOMO: Is there any chance that you change the rules?

GIULIANI: There's a chance.

CUOMO: Citizens United gave everybody comfort on the Supreme Court level. Super PACs are definitely legal.

GIULIANI: There's a chance that the rules can be changed or at least we can do it on a state by state basis. But the reality is it's hard to say to somebody, I can get this advantage legally running, I'm not going to take it.

CUOMO: Unilaterally disarm. Who is going to do that?

GIULIANI: That's not going to change it any way.

CUOMO: Another I want to put your mind to what is right under the law. You have a right to do, but may not be right to do. Pamela Geller, we now find out that she was being targeted by the psycho of Boston. They took him out, but there may be another person who is out there. Do you support what Pam Geller does?

GIULIANI: Well, I don't support, you know, deliberate attempts to mock a religion.

CUOMO: But she has the right?

GIULIANI: But I defend with my life to right for her to do it and I consider the level of wrongdoing in her case much greater on the side of the people, who did what they did --

CUOMO: -- tried to kill her. But you think what she's doing is a simple exercise of free speech?

GIULIANI: It is a simple exercise of free speech that will incite emotions and will incite anger. You have to expect that that's going to happen. You don't have to expect somebody is going to start shooting at you, though.

CUOMO: Where do you draw the line because what happens? She has some media who are on a different network, who are making this into a pure first amendment issue. That she's having her right to speak denied, that's what this is about, I don't see that.

Nobody has ever stopped Pam Geller from doing it. She had her event. I think that's whipping people up under a falls assumption, which is that her rights are being chilled. That's not true, is it?

GIULIANI: Her rights are being chilled.

CUOMO: How? Who is chilling her right?

GIULIANI: People that are shooting at her.

CUOMO: Right. But she still held the event. She said she is going to do it. She still has the right.

[07:35:03] GIULIANI: That's because she has a lot of courage, but most people wouldn't have that courage. You shouldn't have to have events under the premise -- it's like saying a group of people are going to protests the police, but you're going to have to take the risk even if you do it peacefully because they shoot you.

CUOMO: Right?

GIULIANI: I think her right of free speech has been abridged. As a matter of taste, I don't agree. I have big questions about the Muslim religion, but I know quite a bit about it. I read a lot about it.

I once was going to be a priest and I studied comparative religion a lot. I know some of the questions that should be raised, but she is not doing it the right way.

Does she have the right to do it that way? Absolutely. Should she be doing it that way? I would advise her to do it in a different way.

CUOMO: I appreciate your take going from almost being a priest to a politician. The same path my father took, what happened to you guys?

GIULIANI: I know we got all messed up.

CUOMO: Mr. Mayor, thank you very much for being with us. As always appreciate it -- Alisyn.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: OK, great to see you guys.

Well, Jeb Bush making an announcement about his future today and former Texas Governor Rick Perry also announcing his candidacy. There's a new Democratic challenger also, John King will have all of this on inside politics.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:40:19]

CAMEROTA: Big political news day so let's get right to inside politics on NEW DAY with John King. Hi, John.

JOHN KING, CNN HOST, "INSIDE POLITICS": Alisyn, good morning to you, remarkably busy day. I keep saying when is the slow day going to come for politics? But it's a very, very busy day.

CAMEROTA: Not today.

KING: Not today. Let's get right to it, with me this morning to share their reporting and their insights, NPR's Tamara Keith, CNN's Jeff Zeleny.

Let's start with the one guy getting in today. We have a lot of Republican presidential news to talk about. The one guy getting in is Rick Perry. He was a disaster last time. He couldn't name three cabinet departments that he would cut.

That his was last straw in a debate, but he's running again. He's going to announce in Texas today and here's a bit of a bit of a taste of why Rick Perry says look again. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICK PERRY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: A lot of candidates will say the right things whether it's about the border or whether it's about texts or spending, but we need a president who has done the right thing

We need a president who bridges the partisan divide rather than widen it, who brings people together. We must do right and risk the consequences.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Well produced video there. We were talking about this before we came on the air. He was a disaster last time. A lot of Republicans remember that and they want to win this election so he's got a high bar. But he also has pretty remarkable retail political skills, and will he get a full second chance from the Republican electorate?

TAMARA KEITH, NPR: He's certainly going to try to get one. He's already been in Iowa talking to people, doing small events, doing that retail politics thing that he is very good at.

But there are people, there are Republicans, who supported him early on last time and just felt like they got burned. And it's really, really hard to reintroduce yourself when you had such a bad roll out last time even if you do have really hip new glasses.

KING: But if he gets -- if he does get that chance, Jeff, there are parts of the Republican establishment that say we'll be fine with Rick Perry. The Tea Party likes Rick Perry. The Evangelicals like Rick Perry.

He did send a National Guard down to the border when a lot of Republicans are saying President Obama what are you doing here. So he can appeal to every little slice of the complicated pie.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: That is exactly why he should not be ruled out. Republicans do not rule him out. It's that sign of the cross you just mentioned, the Tea Party, the Evangelicals, the establishment.

He sort of fits all of those things. He told me last year when I saw him in Iowa. He said second chances are what America is all about. So now the burden is on him, but he has been going to school. He's been studying.

He is going to be a more prepared candidate. The last time he jumped in far too late. So we'll see. He has a higher bar, but I do not count him out at all.

KING: Especially in a field that has no clear frontrunner. You have say Scott Walker maybe has the early edge in Iowa. Nationally there is no frontrunner. We just learned this morning that Jeb Bush will make it official on the 15th. He's raising more money than anybody else.

We thought he might be the early frontrunner, but he has a lot to prove. Let's talk about Jeb's announcement and what that means. As we do so, maybe you're a Democrat and you're going to laugh at what I'm about to say.

But this is a pretty remarkable, deep Republican field. You may not like them. You may not agree with their policies, but we're going to have potentially eight or current or former governors in the Republican field.

Eight if you go through them all, five current or former U.S. senators in the field, and then the newcomers, Carly Fiorina from the business world and Ben Carson, the noted neurosurgeon. Jeb Bush thought he would be ahead of these guys by now.

ZELENY: He thought he would be like his brother, which 16 years ago next week is when George W. Bush got into the race, a big rally in Iowa. Boy what a different setting this is now. He's not the front runner at all. He's not been keeping people out. One of the reasons so many people are in is because he's not a strong -- he's not a threat at this point.

KING: Hasn't scared them away.

ZELENY: But his fundraising number will be muscular, but he has a lot of work to do. He is going to begin this summer not in a strong position.

KING: Right. And he wants to say, you know, I have the franchise name. I can win the state of Florida, which is key to the Republicans. I can raise a boat load of money and be competitive against Hillary Clinton.

But first primaries about ideology and he's a guy campaigning for the Republican Party nomination who is at odds with the base, a big piece of the base of his party on common core education standards.

At odds with a huge piece of the Republican base on immigration. He says at least a path to legal status and he is open to citizenship for the undocumented people. How do you convince people you disagree with me on two fundamental issues, but vote for me.

KEITH: I think that is a challenge and that is what he is trying to figure out. You know, he got into this -- well, he started talking about getting into this race and there was this feeling that he was going to be this juggernaut.

That he was -- Jeb Bush was going to blow everybody out of the water. And it's possible when his fundraising numbers come out, he will blow everybody out of the water. But the shock and awe didn't really happen I think the way he expected it to.

KING: I'm old enough to remember Phil Gram race when he said the best friend of American politics is ready money. He raised a lot of it and Pat Buchanan on a bus knocked him out of the front race in 1996. Bob Dole went on to win.

Let's move on to the Democratic prohibitive frontrunner at the moment. We will see she had a new challenger just yesterday jump in, the former Republican Senator and independent governor from Rhode Island, Lincoln Chafee.

[07:45:09] Now says he is a Democrat. He is going to be on this program next hour. Check out Governor Chafee and see what he has to say. Let's focus on Hillary Clinton who will be in Texas today. She's going to give a speech about voting rights.

Some of this can be technical. The state wants to do this. The state wants to do that. She wants to make the case that Republicans in several states are trying to make it harder for African-Americans and others to vote.

It's an important issue on the technicalities and the law. But Jeff, it's also critical for her central campaign strategy, keep the Obama coalition together and you can't beat me.

ZELENY: Right. And by doing that she needs to actually energize the black voters a lot more. I mean, she's very popular in that community, but voters are not going to organically flock to her.

But early voting an access to voting is a big, big deal. After the Supreme Court decision in 2013, she's smart to talk about it. It also feeds into her biography. In 1972, she was down in Texas as a young campaign worker.

That's what she want to talk about today, but the reality is all these voting laws are state by state by state. So she can't call for this early voting national watch. It's not how it works, but she's giving a big speech to entice African-American voters to support her.

KEITH: It's symbolic calling for early voting in every state at least 20 days of early voting. It's truly symbolic. It's done on a state by state on a local basis. She can't actually make it happen. But talking about it is exactly targeted at that Obama coalition that she needs. He doesn't need just to win the Obama coalition. She needs a lot of them to show up. She needs to get big numbers.

KING: She needs energy and enthusiasm. A lot of states for that would make a big difference assuming she is the Democratic nominee. I want to close with Ted Cruz. I don't know whether to give him credit or chastise him a little bit for bad judgment.

This is a routine part of his stamp speech. Politicians rehearse their stamp speech. They get it in their head. They go out before an audience and they just give it again and again and again, and again. Part of Ted Cruz's stamp speech is this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SENATOR TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know, Vice President Joe Biden, you know the nice thing? You don't need a punch line. I promise you it works. The next party you're at, just walk up to someone, say Vice President Joe Biden and just close your mouth.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Now, again, it's a funny line, especially for Republican audience. He's used it dozens and dozens and dozens of times. The vice president just lost his son and the vice president is grieving right now.

To Senator Cruz's credit they figured this part out and quickly apologized on Facebook. He says it was mistake to use an old joke about Joe Biden during this time of grief and I sincerely apologize. The loss of his son is heartbreaking and tragic and our prayers are very much with the vice president and his family.

So a very bad call, quick apology. Move on?

ZELENY: He had to apologize, no question about it. You have to wonder what was he thinking when he was letting that joke sort of spool out. He reads the newspaper. He is a very smart guy. Just a mistake so he cleaned it up as best he could.

KEITH: I mean, he had put out -- he was one of the politicians that put out a statement almost immediately after we heard about Beau Biden passing away and it was a very sensitive statement. And this completely undercuts that, though, he of course did apologize, which politicians don't always do.

KING: Credit that you're right. They don't always apologize, Alisyn, so credit for him for apologizing. The presidency is about making judgment, decisions just about every minute of every hour. So it's a little bit downside that he made the judgment to put in there, but at least he quickly tried to clean it up.

CAMEROTA: OK, there you go. John King, thanks so much. See you tomorrow.

Well, an important medical story, the debate over mammograms heating up this morning at what age should women start to get them? That's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:50:00]

CUOMO: It is time for CNN Money now. Chief business correspondent, Christine Romans in the money center. Christine, huge merger in the works, do you know what it is?

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: I do. It is T- Mobile and Dish Network, they are merger talks. That would combine the second largest satellite provider with the four largest wireless carrier. Dish has acquired wireless licenses, but doesn't have the cellular networks to put them on.

The deal could help T-Mobile boost its network and add subscribers, and yes, there's been a lot of consolidation in telecoms, hasn't there.

All right, he is the world's richest man and he does not have a college degree, but his advice, you go to college and you graduate. Bill Gates dropped out of Harvard in 1975. He founded Microsoft, but he writes in his blog that he got lucky.

He says getting a degree is a much surer path to success. Plenty of people are going to college he says. The problem they are not prepared and too many drop out. America needs more college graduates, he said.

And for today's "NEW DAY, New You" mammograms can cut the chance of dying from cancer, breast cancer, almost in half for some women. A new study, an important new study from an international panel finds women 50 to 69 years who were screened reduced their risks of dying by 40 percent.

Older women also benefitted to a lesser extent. Here is what is getting a lot of attention this morning. The report says there is limited evidence screening helps women in their 40s. Why?

The test can yield a lot of false alarms, false positives and fewer life-saving discoveries. These findings are adding to the debate about who should get mammograms. What should you do?

Talk to your doctor about your circumstances specifically any family history of breast cancer, very important. Then once you turned 50 there is no question about the benefits -- guys.

CUOMO: Christine, thank you very much.

News out of Boston, terror plots foiled. The suspect's original target revealed. The woman behind the contest to draw a cartoon of the Prophet Muhammad, they wanted her head. Pamela Geller is here. What does that mean to her and what is her plan, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:58:26]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Boston terror suspect plotted to behead Pamela Geller.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She organized the Prophet Muhammad cartoon contest in Garland, Texas.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It won't end with me. This is just beginning.

CAMEROTA: She will be live here on NEW DAY.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ISIS has a new weapon and it's water. Their goal to, quote, "kill people of thirst."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The jury ultimately has to decide whether Holmes was legally insane at the time he open fire inside that crowded movie theater.

CUOMO: The expanding list of the Republican hopefuls.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're going to get a much more serious Rick Perry this time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Today, I am entering the race for the Democratic nomination for president.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Thursday, June 4th, 8:00 in the east. We are learning more this morning about the Boston terror suspect and his ISIS inspired plans. Of course, he was shot to death by law enforcement when he came at them with a knife.

But it turns out he was plotting to kill police officers, he called them the "boys in blue" that's how he referred to them. He also had other targets.

CAMEROTA: Yes, authorities say the plot included beheading a controversial activist, who organized that Prophet Muhammad cartoon contest in Garland, Texas. CNN's Alexandra Field is following all the developments for us. She is live from Boston. What do we know this morning, Alexandra?

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn. We are now learning why police decided to move in on Usaama Rahim in the parking lot of a CVS. They have been following him for years.