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New Day
Police: Terror Suspect Planned to Behead Pamela Geller; Jeb Bush Announcement Set For June 15. Aired 8:30-9a ET
Aired June 04, 2015 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[08:30:45] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: It was a big headline. Law enforcement sources say activist Pamela Geller was the original target of a terror plot for this madman who actually wanted to behead her. This was uncovered when a Boston terror suspect was killed by police earlier this week.
Now, Geller, as you may remember, organized the Draw Mohammed event in Garland, Texas, that ended in gunfire last month, and runs a group that does take shots at Islam on a regular basis.
Pamela Geller joins us now. Before we get into the debate about what you do and what you are going to do, how are you, with these threats?
PAMELA GELLER, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN FREEDOM DEFENSE INITIATIVE: I'm fine, or as well as can be expected. But they're violating -- they are coming after me for violating the Sharia, for violating the blasphemy laws, and they mean to come after everybody that doesn't abide by, voluntarily, the blasphemy laws under Islamic law.
CUOMO: It is one thing to have them attack what you say. It' is another thing for them to want to actively attack you. How has your life changed now since exposure of this and even before of what you thought you may face?
GELLER: Well clearly I am under 24-hour guard now, so that's dramatically changed. Anybody that speaks critically of Islam will find themselves in this position, and it's not new. We see this is going on across Europe, and even in the Middle East and Africa, in Bangladesh. Hundreds of thousands of Muslims have marched for the death penalty for bloggers, that they be put to death.
It's interesting, in Muslim countries under the Sharia, there is a death penalty for blaspheming Mohammad. In the west, you are not assassinated but your character is assassinated. You're defamed, libeled, and ridiculed if you dare criticize Islam. That's where we are right now.
CUOMO: Are you -- I know the answer to this question, but explain your answer to this question. Have you thought that, ooh, maybe I went too far? This wasn't worth it. I'm going to change how I do what I do now?
GELLER: Drawing a cartoon, an innocuous cartoon warrants chopping my head off? That's too far? I just don't understand this. They're going to come for you, too, Chris. They're coming for everybody. And the media should be standing with me, particularly in light of Foley -- the media should have understood that by kowtowing and submitting to Islamic law, that is what you are doing.
CUOMO: How?
GELLER: By not running the cartoon, by saying that Pamela Geller goes too far in running a cartoon. It's the First Amendment. What happened to "Give me liberty or give me death?" And we see the --
CUOMO: But you have the liberty. You can show the cartoon. People have the equal right to criticize your showing the cartoon as an overt provocation of a religion.
GELLER: An overt provocation. First of all, we see Jesus blasphemed mercilessly on "South Park". We see the cross immersed in a jar of urine. We see Mother Mary immersed in dung. Nobody says anything about that.
CUOMO: That's not true. Those get criticized as well.
GELLER: Nobody gets killed, embassies don't get burned, villages don't get burned. I am asking you, we all don't like our religion mocked. The Roman Catholics don't, the Christians don't, the Mormons don't, and the book -- the show "The Book of Mormon" is viciously anti-Christian. Nobody is getting killed. Why do we condescend to Muslims? Well, I certainly don't. I expect the same behavior. I expect civilized behavior. But it is the low expectation of soft bigotry. Why don't you expect the same thing from Muslims that they have to accept that -- ?
CUOMO: Well, you do accept it. You do expect it, rather. You have your laws in place. The question that I think your behavior raises is why so slight for slight with the Muslims? Why not do what we often teach as a function of virtue when we're dealing with savagery, which is show that we are better than this? Not show that we can poke them in the eye in a way they don't like it?
GELLER: That's not what you're doing. You are submitting, and you are kowtowing. And they are saying if you draw a little cartoon, if you draw a stick figure and say it's Mohammed, we're going to come and kill you. And so you say, OK, we won't draw it. CNN won't show it. And like the other major networks --
CUOMO: First of all --
GELLER: Wait, I just want to say --
[08:35:00] CUOMO: You know that one of my problems with that is that I did show the cartoon after "Charlie Hebdo". But I also understand the security concerns of CNN as an organization, and you should as well. Because if you hold another event, you knew there was a risk before. Not everybody can have 24 hour security . People who come to this event in their role as their form of patriotism, and they may be exposed to violence because you're dealing with crazy people. GELLER: They're not crazy, they're devout. And you gave --
CUOMO: No, they are not just devout. They're not just devout.
GELLER: You have to let me finish.
CUOMO: All right. Go ahead.
GELLER: You gave them that power. In the wake of the 9/11 attacks, the Danish cartoons in 2005, they were very innocuous. Not one American media outlet would run those cartoons. You gave the violent jihadist the power.
CUOMO: Because members of the Muslim community who aren't terrorists said they found it offensive.
GELLER: So what? I find a lot of things offensive. I find your petition offensive. I find you telling me that my speech is offensive, I fin that offensive. I'm not going to kill you. This is what is required to live in a pluralistic society. And I will not abridge my First Amendment rights so as not to offend savages, which is what is being demanded of me --
CUOMO: You don't have. It is not being demanded.
GELLER: -- by you and your colleagues.
CUOMO: No, no, no. Who has told you told don't do it?
GELLER: If the media had run those Danish cartoons, none of this would be happening. They couldn't kill everybody. What you did --
CUOMO: But you also make it sound like this is what the war is about, is these cartoons.
GELLER: Yes, it is.
CUOMO: No, it isn't. how is this what it's about?
GELLER: It's about freedom!
CUOMO: It's about -- ISIS wants control of territory. They want everyone to live their way. The cartoon is the least of it. It just seems like you're throwing a stone at something that doesn't really help anything.
GELLER: Throwing a stone at something that can get my head chopped off. And it's getting people's heads chopped off all across the world.
CUOMO: But that's why I'm talking to you about it, because it's one thing to say they don't like the cartoon. I'm going to show it, which is exactly what I did after the "Charlie Hebdo" massacre.
GELLER: And those cartoons were -- I found them offensive. They were obscene and they were pornographic, but I still will defend their right to show those cartoons. And it is about the cartoons; it's about freedom. This is a fight; it's about freedom or submission. You are submitting. You can say I'm not doing it for that reason, but you're doing it.
CUOMO: But here's the thing, you say it's submitting because we won't show the cartoon. When I talk about these guys, I say they're crazy. You say they're devout. That's me being more hostile toward them than you. I won't say their names. We call them murderers. We say about terror what it is, which is cowardice. That's how we talk about it all the time. It's far more provocative than just showing an inane cartoon, like you're doing. So it's not about surrender; it's about sensibility.
GELLER: Yes, showing cartoon --
CUOMO: Mainstream Muslims will say, you know, we don't like this. It's the same reason I'm not going to show Piss Christ gratuitously. That's not what you're doing.
GELLER: So where is --
CUOMO: That was about stopping funding for First Amendment speech, by the way, Piss Christ. That was a different issue.
GELLER: You just keep contradicting yourself.
CUOMO: How? Where? Show me one contradiction?
GELLER: First of all -- wait a minute. Where are mainstream Muslims teaching in the mosques against the blasphemy laws, against the Islamic law, against the Sharia? What programs are being instituted against the jihad?
CUOMO: Sharia is not mainstream Muslim thought, as you know. It's a cultural adaptation. It's about tradition.
GELLER: I don't know that at all.
CUOMO: It's not about the Koran.
GELLR: It's not a cultural adaptation.
CUOMO: Of course it is.
GELLER: It's Islamic law. This is the law in Muslim land.
CUOMO: It is the law through tradition. It is not laid out in the Koran.
GELLER: It is laid out under Sharia --
CUOMO: In developed societies, they have -- you go to Pakistan, you go to places even in Indonesia, they have parallel systems that, yes, take their tradition into play, but they believe in justice the way we do here. Muslims are not savages.
GELLER: I never said they were. Did you?
CUOMO: Yes, I just did, in a question to you. Because.
GELLER: I have never said that.
CUOMO: Well, you say I have problems with Islam, you put your friend there as a keynote speaker who is overtly attacking Islam.
GELLER: I have a problem with the Sharia, and I have a problem with jihad. I don't care if you worship a stone, just don't stone me with it. And you're wrong about the Sharia and you're wrong about jihad. I mean, Islam as a religion -- I don't care about Hinduism, I don't care about Sikhism. The difference between canon law is it pertains only to Christians. Jewish law pertains only to Jews. But the Sharia, Islamic law, asserts its authority over non-Muslims.
CUOMO: I know, but just because they assert their authority --
GELLER: Let me finish, please. Which is why Christians are being slaughtered in en masse in Iraq, in Syria. You say the Islamic State -- what is the difference between Islamic State and al Shabaab and al Qaeda and Hamas?
CUOMO: Nothing. Those are all hateful terrorists groups.
GELLER: They are devout Muslim groups --
CUOMO: They're terrorist groups.
GELLER: -- following literal Islam.
CUOMO: No.
GELLER: Following pure Islam. You can so no --
CUOMO: We have experts on all the time on Islam who are actually Muslim.
GELLER: Who are the experts? I would like to know.
CUOMO: I'll give you the whole list.
(CROSSTALK)
GELLER: Robert Spencer on? No you don't. You have Islamist apologists on.
CUOMO: These are terror groups. They're not mainstream groups. You know this, Pam. What I'm saying is why teach people to view Islam through the lens of the worst of Muslims?
GELLER: No one is teaching people that. But people need to understand the jihadic doctrine, and that it is coming from you, and mainstream Muslims should be standing with me shoulder to shoulder in defense of free speech, in defense of our freedoms. This is absurd, your position, that we should abridge our freedoms -- [08:40:02]
CUOMO: I don't have that position.
GELLER: -- for a vicious and radical ideology.
CUOMO: I don't have that position and you know it.
GELLER: The most of the face the earth.
CUOMO: But you know that. You know that I embrace your right to do it. I bring you on here to discuss it because I embrace the right.
And we will do it again going forward because I know that this will not stop you, this threat, from having events and saying things --
GELLER: No, I have a couple of very big initiatives coming up.
CUOMO: Well, we look forward to hearing what they are. And I'm glad that you're safe and I hope you stay that way.
GELLER: Thank you very much.
CUOMO: Alisyn?
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: OK, Chris. Back to politics for a second. Ted Cruz making a joke about Vice President Joe Biden as he mourns the death of his son, Beau. Senator Cruz now apologizing, but what does it say about the candidate? That political debate ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CAMEROTA: Time now for the five things to know for your NEW DAY.
Number one, Boston terror suspect, Usaama Rahim, plotted to behead activist Pamela Geller. But police say he changed his mind, decided to target police instead before they shot him dead.
Baltimore's police commissioner asking for federal help to stop the city's crime surge. He says drug wars fueled by pharmacy lootings doing April's riots are behind that spike.
[08:45:02] ISIS closing the Ramadi dam in Iraq, cutting off the water supply to several towns. Officials now warning of a huge humanitarian and security threat, calling for the dam to either be retaken or targeted in an airstrike.
Rescue crews cutting holes in the overturned hull of a cruise ship that capsized on China's Yangtze River. More than 70 bodies have been recovered and hundreds of people still missing.
The expanding GOP presidential field adding another name. Former Texas Governor Rick Perry expected to officially announce his bid for the White House today.
For more on the five things to know, go to newdayCNN.com for all the latest.
Chris?
CUOMO: Jeb Bush, as you know, is expected to make a presidential announce and soon. Is he finally jumping into the race? Of course he is. Why has he waited this long? That's what we discuss.
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CUOMO: Surprise, surprise. It looks like Jeb Bush is going to be all in.
CAMEROTA: I am shocked.
CUOMO: He is announcing to announcing that he's announcing that he will announce.
CAMEROTA: From the department of redundancy department.
CUOMO: The former Florida governor, June 15th, he says, that's when the big announcement comes. So we believe he is going to run. We should discuss.
CAMEROTA: Let's do that. Joining us this morning, Democratic strategist and former senior adviser to President Bill Clinton, Richard Socarides, and CNN political commentator and Jeb Bush supporter, Ana Navarro.
Ana, we seem like geniuses that we booked you for this morning because here is Jeb Bush announcement, sort of, something. Coming soon, 6-15- 15.
[08:50:04] Ana, you are an insider. What information do you have this morning?
ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, let's see. Look -- We have got so many people announcing that we now have announcements for the announcements. This has become the normal thing in 2016. I think Jeb has been through this journey now for several months, he's been out there answering questions, shaking hands, talking to voters, listening to voters, he's been to the early states, he's been raising money, a lot of money. I think he is ready to reach a decision. And frankly, you know, look, short of death, serious illness or getting kidnapped by Martians, I expect him to be in on 6/15, and I can't wait. In at last.
CUOMO: Here is my question about "in at last," Ana: why he waited this long? One of the suppositions is, well, he has been able to raise money unlimitedly with his Super PAC because he is not officially in the race, which is legal, is done, but it kind of feels like dirty pool. Do you believe that he is playing the money game too much?
NAVARRO: No, it doesn't feel like dirty pool to me. Look, I don't like these finance laws that exist right now, but there's a lot of technicalities and loopholes that you can take advantage of when you are not a federal candidate. And it's what you saw Jeb do, it's what you're seeing Chris Christie do, it's what you're seeing Scott Walker do.
The senators, they have nothing to win from not announcing early because they have federal campaigns and they have been federal candidates. The loophole was for those that don't have federal campaigns. So the loophole is there and yeah, they are being strategic and taking advantage of something that puts them in a better financial position, so everybody is doing it.
There is more scrutiny on Jeb, certainly, because he's raised more money and because he is Jeb Bush and there's always be more scrutiny on Jeb. But it's what the crazy laws allow and you would be crazy not to take advantage of it.
RICHARD SOCARIDES, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER TO PRESIDENT CLINTON: Well, that's the question. Can I just say to my friend, Ana. I mean, let's be real about it. I mean, there was no question that Jeb Bush has been running for president for many, many months now and he is forced into this announcement this morning because of the increasing legal and political pressure that he has been under to announce because he has been accused of violating the campaign's finance law -
NAVARRO: That's not true, Richard.
SOCARIDES: This weekend on CBS, Bob Schaffer accused him of violating the campaign finance laws, there have been two days of "New York Times" articles about this. I mean, he was - This is another unforced error on the part of the Bush campaign. I was joking a little bit with Ana on Twitter this morning that maybe it will go better for him now that he is an announced candidate.
CAMEROTA: Yeah, Ana, go ahead because, I mean, he wasn't -
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: Yeah, and my response to you is -
CAMEROTA: What is the timing, if not what Richard says?
NAVARRO: I don't know what makes you guys think this was not the day that was planned to be announced. Anybody who has talked to me for the last several - frankly, for more than a month, I have been saying consistently, look, I think it's going to be the third week of June. Talk to any of our colleagues on CNN, anybody in the press, anybody who has asked me and that was just an educated guess because that's what, to me, made sense strategically.
I think this has been a strategic political decision. You know, you guys can go on all your theories and Richard, yeah, I do hope that he does a good job, that's why he's been out there, he's been learning how to be a candidate and I have seen him become a better candidate slowly but surely in these months.
And I do hope that he is better, but I hope that he is a lot better than what Hillary Clinton has been for the last month and a half. I don't think she -- She is going to have to have another launch because her soft launch six weeks ago, since then she has answered no questions and done practically no campaigning events except things that are like faked and arranged and orchestrated to look like campaign events.
CAMEROTA: Before we get to Hillary Clinton, we want to touch on something that happened with Ted Cruz, because this is important. Last night he made a joke that many thought was insensitive about Joe Biden. Let's listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know, Vice President Joe Biden.
(LAUGHTER)
You know the nice thing? You don't need a punch line.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: This, of course, Richard, the week that Joe Biden's son, Beau Biden, died. So, you know, there's all sorts of talk during a campaign about candidates' character and I should say that Cruz immediately - well, quickly -- apologized online. He says, "It was a mistake to use an old joke about Joe Biden during his time of grief, and I sincerely apologize. The loss of his son is heartbreaking and tragic, and our prayers are very much with the Vice President and his family."
Does this say something about Senator Cruz?
SOCARIDES: I mean, what do you say about something like this, right? I mean, it's a most unfortunate moment in our political discourse and everybody has been so sad for the Biden family and he has been, you know, he is a family man at his heart, and his son had such a distinguished career.
[08:55:08] I mean, it's such a sad story. What do you say about something like this? I mean, the man apologized. I think people get into this thing, you give the same speech 100 times, right? I mean, I think what people are seeing now the kind of discourse that Ted Cruz has got on his campaign trail.
CAMEROTA: Yeah. Richard, Ana, we have to leave it there. Thanks so much. Great to see you guys. See you again.
CUOMO: That was bad stuff. So now we have "Good Stuff" coming up.
CAMEROTA: That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CUOMO: This is a good one. It's going to come with the Camerota tear guarantee. Watch what happens here. The bond a mom develops with her newborn, crucial, right? But all too often, babies who are admitted to the Neonatal Intensive Care Unit, NICU, they don't get that chance.
So listen to this. Dr. Amy Quinn (ph) of San Antonio's University hospital did something about it using readily available technology like FaceTime, smartpads. Dr. Quinn created a program called Baby Chat that allows mothers to see, hear and talk about their newborns in the NICU.
CAMEROTA: Oh, that's great!
CUOMO: The hospital says the babies are responding to the sound of their mother's voices in great ways, obviously. And these moms are worried, right?
[09:00:01] CAMEROTA: Oh, I would have loved that!
CUOMO: Like what's happening with my baby?
CAMEROTA: I needed that.
CUOMO: They get much needed peace of mind.
CAMEROTA: I needed that when my babies were in the NICU. That's great. So happy. Thank you for telling us.
Time now for "NEWSROOM" with Carol Costello.
