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Therapy for Insomniacs; Video Shows Officer Kicking Man on Sidewalk in Florida; Valerie Harper Talks About '70s Television. Aired 8:30-9a ET
Aired June 11, 2015 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[08:30:00] DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: But also reminds you that if you're sitting there tossing and turning in bed for a long time, it may be time to get out of bed and do something else for a period of time.
ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: Anything wrong with using sleeping pills?
GUPTA: I don't - I don't think so. And, you know, I think people become dependent on them. I think that that's a - not in an addictive sense, but it just becomes something that people do regularly to try and fall asleep. There's also a hangover effect, even for the pills that don't spend as much time in the - you know, crossing the blood- brain barrier. You can still have a hangover effect. They did a study on Ambien a couple of years ago, found that people who took Ambien, even the next morning while they were driving, still had motor skills similar to someone who had been drinking the night before. So, you know, it's not something you'll want to do long term.
I travel a lot. I go, you know, overseas a lot. Resetting the clock sometimes can be beneficial with sleeping pills or something like melatonin. I didn't know much about this cognitive behavioral therapy for sleep. I started reading on it a lot in preparation for this segment. You know, I think there is something there. And it's more sustainable.
CABRERA: It sounds like it certainly couldn't hurt. If anything, it can help.
GUPTA: Yes. I mean it's time. There is a cost involved, obviously, to doing these things, but I think if you - if you're someone out there who says, look, I've had trouble sleeping my entire life. Off and on I've had these significant problems. As a result, I don't exercise, I don't eat well and are at high risk of diseases. This - this could be something that is a non-invasive, non-medicative (ph) sort of solution for you.
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: I mean doesn't that suggest that it's emotional instead of physical, that there's nothing physical going on? If you can get up and get yourself into a meditative state, doesn't that mean that it's not physical?
GUPTA: I mean some people will say it is all in your mind. In fact, if you look at the headlines in a lot of the newspapers today, that's sort of the common theme. You know, the lack - the difficulties with sleep. A lot of it's in our own - in our own heads. And, you know, I mean, look, Alisyn, there's some sense to that. Unless there's some physical ailment that's keeping you from sleeping, it probably has to do with that.
I keep a notepad by my bed. Something else that they suggested in this thing as well. If I've got troubles, I got things in my mind, I'm worried about Chris Cuomo, for example, I write that down.
CAMEROTA: Right. Right.
GUPTA: I cast it away on a piece of paper. In the morning, it's still there, unfortunately, and I -
CABRERA: And so is he.
GUPTA: But I get to deal with it.
CAMEROTA: Too easy. I know.
GUPTA: How'd you like that. That was the old one-two.
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Sanjay, when he's having trouble sleeping, they say get out of bed, do something else, that's when he tends to call me -
CABRERA: He starts to do push-ups (ph).
CUOMO: He always does hands down push-ups. He will call me and say, this is not Sanjay Gupta. You have a big nose. And I say, I know it's you! You just said it's not you. It has to be.
GUPTA: That helps me sleep, Chris.
CABRERA: (INAUDIBLE).
CUOMO: He sleeps like a baby after that and I'm all torn, wind up (INAUDIBLE).
CABRERA: Tossing and turning.
CAMEROTA: Sanjay, thank you. Great advice. I hope that will help people.
GUPTA: Yes.
CAMEROTA: Thanks so much.
GUPTA: You got it. Thank you.
CAMEROTA: All right, so we are staying on top of the story, and that's the search for these escaped prisoners.
Plus, Florida police seen kicking a man on tape. Was this a case of excessive force? We'll dig deeper and analyze this case ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [08:36:48] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NATALIE JACKSON, PLAINTIFF'S ATTORNEY: We want to know everything about these officers, because if it were you or I that kicked someone and used a weapon against them while they were sitting passively, we would be arrested. That does not happen to the police, and that is the problem and that is what we have to solve here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: That is Orlando lawyer Natalie Jackson. She's speaking out for her client, who was standing behind her, Noel Carter. He was on the show earlier this morning. You're going to hear from him.
Now, that's him sitting down on the curb. That is a police officer repeatedly kicking him after an altercation outside a nightclub. Carter says he is a victim of police brutality. Police insist, including the chief, that he was resisting, OK? Let's discuss.
We have former NYPD detective sergeant and professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice, Mr. Joseph Giacalone. And CNN law enforcement analyst and retired NYPD detective Harry Houck.
Gentlemen, good to have you both here.
JOSEPH GIACALONE, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE SERGEANT: Good morning.
CUOMO: Even with what you certainly know, Harry, I give the benefit of the doubt to the police when we're doing these analyses because they have to use force in the pursuit of their duty.
HARRY HOUCK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Right.
CUOMO: But I'm having a hard time with this one. What is a legit excuse for kicking a guy like that when he's sitting on the curb?
HOUCK: All right, first of all, there's two videos here.
CUOMO: Uh-huh.
HOUCK: We're just seeing one. All right, this guy claims he was just sitting around and doing nothing when the police came for him, which is wrong. Here -
CUOMO: That's not what he claims.
HOUCK: He - well -
CUOMO: It's not what he claims.
HOUCK: Well, in the article -
CUOMO: But, go ahead. I just interviewed him. Not what he claims. But, go ahead.
HOUCK: That I read, that what he - OK. Well, that's - that's what I read in the article, all right. The fact that he assaulted his girlfriend, he assaulted police officers, allegedly this was a real fight going on, all right? So when he was Tasered, he was down on the ground. The Taser was not working on him, all right? So once that Taser was not working on him, the officer still had to effect an arrest on this guy. And the police officer can use whatever force is necessary to affect that arrest. And kicking is not out of the realm of trying to get somebody to submit to an arrest.
CUOMO: He is submitting. He's sitting on the curb, Giacalone.
HOUCK: He's not submitting. He's probably being told to get on his back or to get on his belly and get his hands behind his back and he's probably not doing that. You can see that probably he's resisting arrest. That's why the police officer is kicking him, all right? I would have put the guy in a chokehold and put him right there and got him handcuffs, all right? But this officer thought that this was the force that he needed to use to try and effect that arrest. And, remember, we did not see the whole video here. I would like to see the whole video here. The video then -
CUOMO: Why? Why? That's a - let's take that part -
HOUCK: Yes.
CUOMO: Let's unpack that for a second. There is a separate incident. It was at the nightclub. He was having an argument with a woman. He did wind up getting charged with domestic battery and other things. Her statement, according to his lawyer, says he didn't hit her. They were having an argument, true. The cops weren't' called. They were there already. They were working off duty, you know, making some extra hour pay there at the nightclub. They came up on him. They talked to her. She started to cry. They came up on him. He was resistant. He says because he was afraid. He says he wasn't drunk. They say he was drunk. They start using the clubs. They use the Taser. They use pepper spray, he says. They say her ran. We don't see that. We see him moving away. He says I'm moving because I'm getting hit and hurt.
HOUCK: Right.
CUOMO: Let's say that all happened. How does it justify the kicking when he's sitting on the curb?
GIACALONE: Yes, once - once you're on the ground and he's really not fighting back, I mean this is where I have the problem with -
CUOMO: This is not, not really fighting back. He's sitting on the curb.
GIACALONE: Yes, I mean, this - this is where I have the problem with the, you know, the going and the kicking. Somebody's got to come in there and just handcuff this guy. Somebody's got to come -
[08:40:03] CUOMO: What are you worried about there, Harry? What are you worried about? He just fell down on his back from getting kicked. Why wouldn't you just grab him and start cuffing?
HOUCK: That was - well, I can tell you, I would have put the guy in a chokehold, all right? But this officer -
CUOMO: But, come on, they don't teach you this at the academy.
HOUCK: Listen -
CUOMO: In this case, kick him like a pinata.
HOUCK: Here's what the law says. The law says a police officer can use whatever force is necessary to affect an arrest.
CUOMO: You think that's necessary?
HOUCK: That police officer at that time thought that that was necessary to get that guy to submit.
CUOMO: He's got another guy standing right there doing nothing.
HOUCK: And, you know, and here's another - the other guy's probably got the Taser on him and he's probably Tasing him and it's not working. So it's not good for him to get down and touch that guy while he's being Tased because that officer might be Tased also.
Here's another incidence of resisting arrest, Chris.
CUOMO: Right.
HOUCK: All right, where this guy had just done what the police officers had -
CUOMO: This would have never happened.
HOUCK: This would never have happened, all right?
CUOMO: Right, this would have never happened.
HOUCK: So a police officer believes that he's got to be able to do this to affect that arrest. I back what he did 100 percent.
CUOMO: And this is why I'm going to come 100 percent the other way, because you treat the cops in these cases like they're an angry man. Like if you and I got into it right now -
HOUCK: Right.
CUOMO: You're going to do what I'm doing to you because you're angry. They are not just another man. They're cops, they're professionals, they're supposed to be better than the situation.
HOUCK: Correct.
CUOMO: Their training is to de-escalate, Giacalone, not to be like the guy who's coming at you.
HOUCK: But he was violent.
GIACALONE: Right, but you know what, though, it was - HOUCK: This guy was a violent criminal.
CUOMO: You say he was violent. We don't really see it. Now he's sitting on a curb.
GIACALONE: Supervision is really important. I'd like to know where the supervisor is on this case. This is what they're - they're there to prevent stuff like this from getting out of control.
CUOMO: The chief says what Harry says, you didn't see the beginning. He came at the cops. He's a big guy. Here's what Noel had to say about that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NOEL CARTER, FILED COMPLAINT: My hands are raced in a submissive fashion. So, no, I don't agree with any statement that I lunged at an officer or an officer's detail that I lunged at his Taser gun. You can clearly see in the video that once I saw the Taser gun, I immediately went the operation direction, with my hand in the air.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: There's a fine -
HOUCK: We didn't see that.
CUOMO: There's a fine line to say we didn't see - but we didn't see the other thing either.
HOUCK: And, remember - and just remember, it's what he said.
CUOMO: That's right.
HOUCK: He's the perp, all right, so I'm not - I'm not going to - I'm not going to take his word for it. He's the guy that was arrested.
CUOMO: He's a perp because the cops put him in a situation where he wound up being -
HOUCK: He beat his girlfriend.
GIACALONE: Where he (ph) wound up being - up until that point, though, when there -
CUOMO: That's what they say, though. She says in her statement there was no hitting.
HOUCK: Well, that's what the defense attorney said.
CUOMO: That's true.
HOUCK: Right.
CUOMO: He said - the defense attorney says in a statement -
HOUCK: What else is the defense attorney going to say?
CUOMO: But the statement is what it is.
HOUCK: You know -
CUOMO: The statement is what it is, unless he's lying.
HOUCK: But that's what a - but that's a defense attorney. You know, he's going to come in and say that his client's innocent of all charges.
CUOMO: No, but he - but it's different. That's true. But if he says - she says no hitting in the statement and it says she was being hit, then he's a liar. He's not just an attorney.
What were you going to say, Giacalone?
HOUCK: Well, I believe he's a liar.
GIACALONE: Well, what's going on here is that, you know, everything leading up to that point, the use of the Taser, the use of force, that's all fine. I have the problem with, I mean, when he's on the ground, he's not really fighting back at all. He's just lying there and he's kicking him. That's where we have to - you know, someone's got to step in and stop him. I mean - and if cops don't realize, they're on video every minute of their day when they're out on the tour. I mean, I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want to be the YouTube video of the week. I mean this is something that's -
HOUCK: Right. But you know what, we can't be playing patty cake with these guys out there.
GIACALONE: Granted.
HOUCK: You know, these officers' lives are in danger.
CUOMO: Yes.
HOUCK: All right. So they have to affect their arrest in the way the law says we can do it, all right? You can't play stupid silly games with these guys because if you do you could wind up dead.
GIACALONE: True.
CUOMO: You get a big amen from me on that. I mean you know that one of our continuing concerns and why we lean on you so heavily is that we're worried that when you show the worst, you wind up making it the norm. And that's not what we want to do.
HOUCK: Well, it's typically not the norm.
CUOMO: However, but when you defend every one of these, whether it's this guy - this guy getting kicked like this here or what happened in Texas where she's a 14-year-old girl and she's mouthing off to the cop and he went to grab a handful of her hair -
HOUCK: I didn't defend him.
CUOMO: I know.
HOUCK: OK.
CUOMO: But I'm saying, a lot of people do, because they say, hold on, don't villainize (ph) the cops.
HOUCK: Right.
CUOMO: This is just a small percentage.
HOUCK: Uh-huh.
CUOMO: But when you defend these things - obviously I'm talking about the Texas case there where the guy was kneeling on her back, 14 years old.
HOUCK: Right. Uh-huh.
CUOMO: If you defend what seems indefensible, then it starts bleeding into, well, maybe they are all this way because you've got these police chiefs who are defending these guys. Not in Texas -
HOUCK: Right.
CUOMO: But here.
HOUCK: Uh-huh.
CUOMO: But you're saying you're still OK with this one?
HOUCK: I'm still -
CUOMO: In Texas, you came out, you said, it's wrong (ph).
HOUCK: With this one I am still OK.
CUOMO: Because the guy was resistant to start with?
HOUCK: Correct.
CUOMO: And you think there was no other way that they could have done it? You would have done it a different way (ph).
HOUCK: Well, no, I would have put him on a chokehold. That's what I would have done, all right?
CUOMO: Better than kicking him like a dog, isn't it?
HOUCK: But that - that was my choice, all right? That would be my choice. I'm not the officer whose life is in danger here, all right?
CUOMO: But his life wasn't in danger there either.
HOUCK: Even though it doesn't - listen, how long - CUOMO: It could be in danger, but not here.
HOUCK: How long do we sit and play patty cake with them sitting there, all right, on the - on the curb? Are you finally going to submit to my arrest? Are we going to do that? You can't do that. As a police officer, you've got to effect an arrest quickly, all right? And -
CUOMO: So where's the line then, Giacalone, between, all right, Harry's got to affect arrest, I'm not letting him affect it, right, which is implausible because he's much stronger than I am. But in this situation, where does it become where any force is OK?
GIACALONE: He has to move in and take control of this guy. It's as simple as that. And, listen, as police work, sometimes it gets ugly. Sometimes it gets dirty and you're going to have to get in there and do it.
CUOMO: Sure. You're dealing with the ugliest and the worst in situations.
GIACALONE: And like Harry said, you know, you get - you can't sit there for three hours waiting for this guy to figure it out. But, listen, after the first kick, the guy went down on the ground, he's got to then jump on top of him. They've got to move in there because when he's like lining up, looking like he's kicking a field goal, I mean this is something where you've got to just - somebody's got to jones (ph) up and then say stop.
[08:45:01] CUOMO: Now -
HOUCK: It doesn't look good, Chris. I understand that. It doesn't look good to the public. But they're not there with the police officer dealing with that situation and the situation before the video occurred, and after that video's over. We don't know what happens after this, right? Apparently he gets handcuffed somehow.
CUOMO: Yeah, they wind up handcuffing him. He falls down, rolls over.
HOUCK: Right. Now he's down and he stops kicking.
CUOMO: No - But he gets kicked again. There's a whole other cycle of kicking that happens after this. They got another video of it.
HOUCK: OK. I haven't seen that.
CUOMO: That's why - Look, you know, that if I'm raising it as something where it seems like what it is on the face, that's why I'm doing it, because I agree. But you have to give the cops the benefit of the doubt. They're dealing with the worst situations, their lives are at risk and we don't want to make that this is the norm when it goes past. At the same time, you don't want to defend things that seem like it went too far, because then that sends a bad message.
HOUCK: Well, exactly.
CUOMO: Harry, thank you for taking it through all the time. Mr. Giacalone, pleasure to have you on the show.
GIACALONE: Thank you.
CUOMO: What do you think? Harry and I were battling it out there on the two sides, because those are the two sides in these analyses. Which way do you feel? You can tweet us, use the #newdayCNN or post your comment on Faceboook.com/newday.
Ana?
CABRERA: A passionate discussion. We appreciate that, guys. Who could forget "Rhoda?" One of the most popular TV shows of the '70s and we're talking to the best. Valerie Harper joining us to talk about the new CNN original series "THE SEVENTIES."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[08:50:06] VALERIE HARPER, EMMY AWARD WINNING ACTRESS: People would say you're just like me and my girlfriends.
I'm going crazy with hunger.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, eat something.
HARPER: I can't. I've got to lose 10 pounds by 8:30.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELA PERERIA, CNN ANCHOR: That was a clip from the critically acclaimed CNN series, "THE SEVENTIES." The premiere episode highlights the massive cultural impact and successes of television from the decade.
Joining me now -- this is a pinch me moment -- to discuss her own role as '70s icon and star of the hit show "Rhoda," four-time Emmy winner Valerie Harper. My dear, it is such a pleasure to be sitting with you.
HARPER: Great to see you, darling.
PEREIRA: Memories on the screen. You knew exactly the line as it was coming out.
HARPER: Yes, I did because it was a great line. Trina Silverman (ph) wrote it. I have to lose ten pounds by 8:30 or something -- five pounds.
PEREIRA: Now it seems like a funny joke and what have you, but when you look back at the fact that in the '70s shows were taught -- First of all, women, writing for women characters, and then talking about things like women's weight and body issues and women working.
HARPER: Absolutely, Michaela. Absolutely. Because that was what was good about that show and that's why women are still watching it and everyone should tune in and see this and they'll remember how different it was from the decade just before.
PEREIRA: When you went in for the call, when you went in to audition for the show, did you know it was going to be such a slice of time in that era about an example of what was happening in the nation at the time?
HARPER: No. Do you know what I knew? I knew it was funny. It was incredibly funny and it was funny with integrity. It didn't push anything or get, you know -- can I say slutty?
PEREIRA: Yeah!
HARPER: Or this or that or twenty brassiere jokes or something. It wasn't that. It was truly funny. It was human beings dealing with each other.
PEREIRA: Is that what you think made TV of that era resonate? I mean, I look at the list and it's like the viewing guide of my childhood. "All in the Family," "Good Times," "The Jeffersons," "Mary Tyler Moore," "Rhoda," your show, "M*A*S*H," "Happy Days," "Laverne and Shirley." I mean, you look at all of those shows, they were kind of real people.
HARPER: And they were about something. There was relationships, people bumping into each other. And our show -- well of course, "All in the Family," they're wonderful -- that was more -- that was more issues. Our show was people bumping into each other at the workplace, at home, in the apartment, with your parents. It was coping. Coping with each other.
PEREIRA: And coping with the things that life threw your way. Because the fact is, it was one of the first shows to deal -- you got married on your show and you divorced. A woman getting divorced on a sitcom.
HARPER: That's true.
PEREIRA: When you think about what that was doing at the time, did you realize that you were part of this movement?
HARPER: Not really. But then soon I got a lot of letters. "Don't let Joe go, he's perfect for you." I mean, it was incredible.
PEREIRA: People wrote you letters.
HARPER: You don't know how many toasters I received on the wedding day. People really took them to heart and it was great. There's so much that women have to -- I feel incumbent upon me to own up to what's going on. Like right now I'm fighting and winning, by the way, Michaela --
PEREIRA: Yes, you are. You are winning your fight.
HARPER: Against cancer. I know. Who knew? I mean, I was really ready to go and my husband said -- I said it's incurable and it's terminal -- and he always says, yet, so far. You know, something's coming. Something's coming and good. PEREIRA: Well, look, I want to ask you about that because, you know, I've had the pleasure of meeting you through TV and we shared Los Angeles together.
HARPER: Yes. We sure did.
PEREIRA: Have you always been a positive person? Because I sense that's what has made a difference in your health battle.
HARPER: I absolutely urge people don't give up, don't be negative. There is so much you can do.
PEREIRA: Well, Valerie, I think you're just a shining example of how we should all live. I'm so glad you came to share your memories of the '70s, a fabulous decade of television, and share also your shining light and attitude about life and living. Thanks so much for being here today.
Tune into "THE SEVENTIES." It's airing tonight at 9:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.
Chris?
CUOMO: Those two were like kindred spirits there. Did you see Mick and Valerie there? We're going to have more of her interview with Valerie Harper tomorrow and she's going to be talking more about her courageous battle with cancer.
First, we've got some serious "Good Stuff." It hits close to home and it involves Mick. Why is she wearing that gown? Why is she looking at that microphone?
[08:54:38] Do we have to call her Doctor now?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CUOMO: Stevie was probably thinking of Michaela, although this was written far, far before she was born. Mick is not here and that's never "The Good Stuff," but why she's gone, oh, it's so good.
Mick was just awarded an honorary doctor of laws -- not just one law, many -- from Thompson Rivers University in Canada, recognizing her philanthropy. You have no idea how much she tries to help in society, her constant advocacy for underprivileged youth. In a statement, the university calls Mick a "powerful role model who embodies the school's vision of the power of diversity." Mick called the honor unforgettable, empowering and uplifting. Dr. Pereira will be back on Monday. Her new contract states she will be called Doc.
CABRERA: Does she get paid more, too, for that title?
CUOMO: She does. Tripling of salary.
CAMEROTA: Do we have to call her Dr. Pereira?
CUOMO: Doc and eyes down, she said. No direct in the eyes anymore. And she will begin every one of her segments by saying, "The doctor is in."
(LAUGHTER)
CABRERA: Congrats, Mickey.
CAMEROTA: That's great.
CABRERA: We are so happy for you.
CAMEROTA: What a great honor.
CUOMO: We love you. You deserve it because you do it the right way, my sister. Enjoy yourself.
CAMEROTA: That's fantastic. We'll see you on Monday.
Meanwhile, time for "NEWSROOM" with Carol Costello. Good morning, Carol.
[08:59:56] CAROL COSTELLO, HOST, CNN'S "NEWSROOM": Funny, I have to call Michaela "goddess."
(LAUGHTER)
CAMEROTA: That's also fine. She answers to that.
COSTELLO: Exactly. Have a great day. Thanks so much. "NEWSROOM" starts now.
