Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

Dogs Pick up Scent; Prison Worker Cooperating; Law Enforcement Search; Tamir Rice Death Charges; Landmark Trade Bill; Germanwings Co- Pilot Revelations; Cleveland Case. Aired 6:00-6:30a ET

Aired June 12, 2015 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:00:00] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: From New York.

Good morning, Jason.

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And good morning to you, John.

That section of 374 that you saw shut down yesterday, still shut down today. Local school district still not having classes today as well. A bit of new information, though, about those - the search for those two inmates. Apparently bloodhounds picked up the scent of Richard Matt and David Sweat at a gas station located about a mile from the prison. The Maple Fields (ph) gas station. They were likely there looking for food and/or supplies. May have gone into the trash looking for food as well.

They're going to be checking out the security cameras there, John, to see if they can provide any information there. The dogs then traced the scent to the area where we are now, located about three miles east of the prison. That's where they found the spot where these two men may have been hiding out, found those used wrappers that you talked about. The used food wrappers. Also finding a fresh footprint and a boot a well. Searchers are going to be working a perimeter in the area, looking for these two men. Dogs are still on the scent, which is a good lead, good information there for investigators.

Joyce Mitchell, you've heard so much about her, that prison employee who was brought in for questioning this past weekend. Well, she apparently is still cooperating with investigators, still providing good information for them as well, helping them with the search. But for now, these two dangerous and desperate men still on the loose.

John.

BERMAN: Of course, the focus will remain in that area as long as dogs do stay on that scent.

Jason Carroll, thanks so much.

And as Jason was just mentioning, Joyce Mitchell, that prison worker who may have escaped - help the convicts escape, there is new information this morning about her because it turns out they were focused on her because of a past complaint about the relationship between her and one of the fugitives. The question now is, will prosecutors press charges against her? CNN's Alexandra Field is live outside the prison in Dannemora with that part of the story.

Good morning, Alexandra.

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good morning, John.

We know that they certainly still could press charges against charges, felony charges, in fact. Anything from accessory to escape, to promoting prison contraband, according to the local district attorney. One law enforcement source has said that Joyce's cell phone was used to contact some of Richard Matt's associates. And, of course, authorities have said that they believe that she planned to drive the getaway car but changed her mind at the last minute. She has been cooperating with authorities, we're told. She has not obtained an attorney at this point. Here's what the district attorney had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDREW WYLIE, CLINTON COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: We've been speaking with her since Sunday and she continues to come into the station and meet with our investigators and provide very viable information for us that's assisted us with this investigation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FIELD: We know that investigators initially zeroed in on Joyce Mitchell because of reports of a previous relationship that she may have had with one of the escapees. There was an investigation into that. The district attorney says that as a result of the investigation, David Sweat was actually removed from the tailor shop. Authorities have also said that Joyce Mitchell has said that Matt made her feel special but she didn't use the word love to describe any kind of relationship there.

But, Alisyn, we do need to point out that Joyce Mitchell's family has repeatedly come to her defense. They have said publically that they believe that 95 percent of the allegations are simply speculation and that they are not, in fact, true.

Alisyn.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: So much to explore this morning. Alexandra, thanks for all that background.

So here to discuss now is Matthew Horace. He's a former ATF agent and chief security officer for FJC Security Service.

Matthew, great to have you here.

MATTHEW HORACE, FORMER ATF AGENT: Great to be here.

CAMEROTA: You know, as they say in crime dramas, the bloodhounds are hot on the trail, but they really are hot on the scent this morning. Can you explain what that means? Does that mean that this is a new scent that they've picked up in the past like 24 to 48 hours or does it mean it could be the old scent from Friday night when they escaped? HORACE: Well, it very well could be an old scent. But one thing that's

for sure, if they're picking it up, then the two suspects did go through that area. It's a 100 percent certainty on that.

CAMEROTA: There are other clues as well. They have found a boot print, a bed of leaves where they believe the suspects may have slept for a night and food wrappers. So what does that tell you?

HORACE: Well, it tells us several things. Number one, as you know, the whole plan about them being picked up and taken somewhere fell through. And we know that now through the key witness in this case. These men need to eat, they need to drink and they need to sleep. Law enforcement knows that they don't have sustainable resources at this point and they're focusing their efforts on the area where they find the most evidence.

CAMEROTA: Where did they get the food?

HORACE: Well, it's hard to say.

CAMEROTA: Does that mean they stole it from a gas station or something?

HORACE: Well, there are several theories to that. They could be taking food out of garbage cans. They could have gone into one of those cottage up there. I understand there are summer homes up in the area. But the greatest fear we have right now from a law enforcement perspective is that they'll commandeer someone's home and possibly force people to help them get food and sustainable goods.

CAMEROTA: I mean they may already have done that since it's been quite, but you'd think that police would know that if a family weren't showing up for work or something.

[06:05:07] HORACE: Well, perhaps not. I mean you put yourself in the situation. If there are certain people out there that may not have contact with their relatives or friends for days at a time, our worst fear right now is that they've done this and they're going to force someone else to do things for them. Remember, they have to eat, they have to drink, they need clothes and they need shelter.

CAMEROTA: One of the latest bits of information is that they were around a gas station about a mile away from the prison. Wouldn't there be surveillance video of them somewhere?

HORACE: There very well should be and I'm sure investigators are watching that footage right now to determine if, in fact, it was them.

CAMEROTA: You had an interesting insight. You said that these guys have been in prison so long that if somebody gave them an iPhone, they wouldn't even know how to use it at this point. But what about those disposable phones? Can police track calls if they picked up a disposable phone somewhere?

HORACE: They very well may be able to track them. But, remember, there were several elements to this escape. The first element was the escape and the second element was transportation. If they didn't need anyone to take them everywhere, then more than likely they don't have their resources that they might be able to use otherwise.

CAMEROTA: There's new information this morning about, as well, the woman who theoretically may have helped them. She apparently had been under scrutiny from the prison for having some sort of inappropriate connection with one of the suspects. Why would the prison let her continue working there? Do they turn a blind eye often in prison to relationships like this?

HORACE: Well, one thing we know about this case, there were several things that had to happen throughout the course of time that just weren't right. This is one of them. So it was reported that they had an inappropriate relationship. Who knows what happened and what investigators did or what authorities did at the prison to look into that. But now, while we're searching for the suspects, I think now's the time to go back and look and determine what caused these serious security gaps and what ultimately caused this breach of security that led to these gentlemen's escape.

CAMEROTA: But, I mean, is there just a general truism in prison that sometimes they do have inappropriate relationships with prison officials and it's overlooked maybe to just kind of keep the peace?

HORACE: Well, throughout history, almost every escape that has ever occurred has occurred as a result of an inside relationship. So this has happened in the past. It's happened this time. And, hopefully, we have learned our lessons. We're going to go back and evaluate what exactly happened up at Clinton.

We've heard that there are 500 law enforcement officials right now searching that five square mile radius for - the area, I should say, for these guys. Does that mean they're there or might they be far, far away by now?

HORACE: Well, they very well could be. But let me tell you, it's been my experience that if that's where they are, that's where the evidence is leaning. And this case draws a very stark comparison to the Eric Frein case up in Pennsylvania. You have the rugged mountains of the Pocono Mountains there, the Adirondacks here. If that's where investigators are, that's where they're focusing their efforts because that's what's giving us the evidence.

CAMEROTA: Got it. You mean they wouldn't be putting that - pouring that many resources into an area if they didn't think that they really had a chance of getting these guys?

HORACE: That is absolutely right and you best believe that they are there for the long haul and they are going to stay until we capture these suspects.

CAMEROTA: Matthew Horace, thanks so much for all the information. Great to have you on NEW DAY.

HORACE: Thank you. Have a great day.

CAMEROTA: You too.

If you have any information about the whereabouts of these escaped inmates, you can contact the U.S. Marshals tip line anonymously at 800-336-0102. If you don't have a pen, just call 911. They will put you in touch with them.

We will also talk much more about the investigation and the possibility of charges against that prison worker with the district attorney heading up the case. That's in our 7:00 hour.

Let's go over to Ana.

ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: A Cleveland judge is recommending charges against police officers in the shooting death of 12-year-old Tamir Rice. You'll recall Rice was killed last November while playing with a pellet gun. And CNN's Martin Savidge has been following this story from the beginning. He's joining us live in Cleveland with the latest.

Martin.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Ana.

This is one of those ruling that had something for everyone, but it didn't have everything for anyone. And what I mean by that is that it was kind of a mixed result in the minds of many people.

The supporters of Tamir Rice and his family, they believe it's a victory because the judge basically said that there was probable cause of charge these officers in connection with the death of Tamir Rice. Let's take a look at the charges. They include - for Timothy Loehmann, that's the officer who fired the fatal shot, murder, manslaughter, reckless homicide, negligent homicide, also should be dereliction of duty. Frank Garmback, his partner, negligent homicide and dereliction of duty.

But really what these community activists wanted was the arrest of these officers and that's where the judge stopped short saying that he didn't have the power to order their arrest. For that he would need basically an order coming from a prosecutor, which means that's where this all goes back to, the Cuyahoga County prosecutor, where this case has been.

The family for Tamir Rice is saying that, well, this was one step toward justice. But the attorney who represents Timothy Loehmann says this was all very prejudicial. There was essentially a trial, but there was not much in the way of evidence and there was no grand jury. Totally wrong in the legal process. He spoke to me last night.

[06:10:07] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HENRY HILOW, ATTORNEY, OFFICER TIMOTHY LOEHMANN: I think his life will never be the same. He's a young man, wanted to be a police officer, is a police officer. And depending on who you talk to, everybody has a different version of facts. But the only facts I would rely on right now are what the sheriff's department did. And it's been assassination by innuendo and speculation. And any one of us would suffer under those conditions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAVIDGE: Henry Hilow pointed out that no one has suffered more, of course, than Tamir Rice and his family. It was a tragedy. But the legal process needs to be respected. When a grand jury will hear this case, we do not know. But the prosecutor says it is only a grand jury that will determine if or not charges will be filed against these officers.

Ana.

CABRERA: We're going on more than six months already and this case is far from over. Martin Savidge, thanks for staying on top of it for us.

And coming up in our 8:00 hour, we will speak with Walter Madison, who's an attorney representing the family of Tamir Rice.

BERMAN: A looming showdown on Capitol Hill over President Obama's landmark trade bill. House lawmakers are set to vote today on legislation that would give the president fast track authority to seal the deal on an historic Pacific trade agreement. But Democrats, his own party, may be the biggest obstacle for the president.

Let's go to the White House. CNN's Michelle Kosinski is there.

Good morning, Michelle.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hey, John.

Right, well, trade-promotion authority did pass the Senate but passing the House was always going to be a whole different ball game. And speaking of which, here's the president last night at the congressional baseball game. One part of a White House's last minute push to get this through. I mean people in the stands were actually chanting for the passage of TPA. Only in Washington, right?

And this is one of those strange situations where you have the White House and Republicans on the same side for the most part. It's Democrats in the House who are balking at this. And the arguments on each side are so strenuous. I mean, on one side, this is critical to the U.S. economy, for the U.S. to compete and engage with Asia. On the other side, you look at past trade agreements. This is bound to be a loss for U.S. jobs.

The White House is insisting that this time it's going to be different. That this is the most progressive trade agreement in history, talking about this deal with Asia that they're trying to complete, that this is going to have built in, written provisions that are going to protect things like human rights, the environment, as well as labor.

But that - that has to mean that a couple of thing happen before that can go through. I mean today there's going to be a vote first on protecting American workers if they do lose their jobs. And there's still some bickering between Democrats and Republicans over this. But that has to pass before trade-promotion authority or the fast track authority for the president can pass, and that needs to happen before the Trans-Pacific Partnership can go through. And that's what this is all about right now.

Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: You're - you're giving me like a three hour headache because there's so much bureaucracy.

KOSINSKI: And this will be a three hour headache, if not more, on the floor of the House coming up.

CAMEROTA: It really - right. And all the alphabet soup, the TAA, the TPA, the -

KOSINSKI: I know. I know.

CAMEROTA: So - but we're going to be debating it all with our political panel coming up. So -

KOSINSKI: Yes. We need a little chart or something here.

BERMAN: (INAUDIBLE).

CAMEROTA: Are you down with OPP?

BERMAN: (INAUDIBLE).

CAMEROTA: Thank you so much, Michelle, for that.

Joint Chiefs chair, General Martin Dempsey, suggesting a shift in strategy now against ISIS, which may mean even more U.S. troops heading to the region. Dempsey telling reporters the fight may require opening outposts at Iraqi bases near the front lines. Earlier this week, the White House announcing plans to deploy up to 450 additional U.S. forces to Iraq, as well as plans to send weapons to Sunni tribes and Kurdish Peshmerga fighters.

CABRERA: Shocking new information just coming to light about Germanwings co-pilot Andreas Lubitz's medical and psychological problems. A French prosecutor just revealed Lubitz feared going blind and he saw an unusual number of doctors before crashing Flight 9525 into the French Alps.

CNN's senior European correspondent Jim Bittermann has the latest now from Paris.

A lot of new details just released, Jim.

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN SENIOR EUROPEAN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. The prosecutor held a news conference yesterday to talk about some of these new details and announced that he's going to, in fact, open up this investigation, this criminal investigation, to see if someone should be held negligent for their role and perhaps not taking any role in preventing Lubitz from flying. In any case, what he told us is that, in fact, Lubitz, in the five years before he - before he crashed the plane, he visit 41 different doctors, including ophthalmologist and neurologists and every kind of other doctor. He felt he was going blind. And just in the month before the plane crash, he visited seven different doctors, including three psychiatrists. And what the doctors told him apparently was that, in fact, there was no, as they put it, organic reason for his perceived blindness.

[06:15:06] He said he'd lost 30 percent or 35 percent of his vision, particularly at night. He was worried that they were going to cancel his pilot's license if that was ever known. And the doctors held a - (INAUDIBLE), are held up to a standard of secrecy between their clients, their patients, and the law. So they had kept silent on the - on all the accusations that were coming out, all the things they were hearing. And as a consequence, they never told anybody apparently. But the prosecutor's going to look into that whole thing just to see if anyone is to be held negligent in the crash.

John.

BERMAN: So many people did see this man. Jim Bittermann for us in Paris. Thanks so much, Jim.

A government hack attack worse than thought. Much worse. A federal union says a breach revealed last week compromised the personal data of every single federal employee, including their Social Security numbers. It initially began with an attack into the Office of Personnel Management in December. After that, the cyber crooks were able to navigate through other systems. Officials tell CNN that they believe China is responsible for this attack, which is a charge that China more or less denies.

CABRERA: How could they not figure out who did it yet, though? I mean especially with how big this hack is?

CAMEROTA: I mean they say that they are sure that it's China, but they haven't presented evidence to the general public to confirm that.

But, meanwhile, every single federal employee?

BERMAN: Yes, past and, you know, present here.

CABRERA: This is scary.

BERMAN: And the information includes Social Security numbers. The question is, what are they going to do with it now that they have that information?

CABRERA: (INAUDIBLE).

CAMEROTA: All right, meanwhile, a Cleveland judge says there is enough evidence to charge those two police officers in the fatal shooting of 12-year-old Tamir Rice. So, now what? Our legal panel, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [06:20:21] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HENRY HILOW, ATTORNEY FOR OFFICER TIMOTHY LOEHMANN: The status of the case yesterday, today and tomorrow hasn't changed. We've had the investigation by the county sheriff's department and is now with our county prosecutor, and it will proceed from there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: That was the attorney for Cleveland Police Officer Timothy Loehmann reacting to a judge's decision that there is probable cause to charge his client and another Cleveland police officer in the shooting death of 12-year-old Tamir Rice. Remember, Tamir Rice was the 12-year-old boy who had a pellet gun and he was shot dead seconds after police pulled up to the scene more than six months ago right now.

Let's turn to our CNN legal analyst Danny Cevallos and Mel Robbins. Danny is a criminal defense attorney and Mel is also an attorney and a CNN commentator.

Danny, let me start with you here because what this judge decided, let's throw it up on the screen here, the judge has decided that there's probable cause that exists to charge these men, Timothy Loehmann and Frank Garmback, with murder, manslaughter, reckless homicide, negligent homicide and Officer Garmback with negligent homicide. So this judge says there is probable cause to charge them with that, but that doesn't mean that today they're being charged with that. So, legally speaking, what are the consequences here?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: The consequences are virtually none. This judge reached the correct legal result. And I'm not talking about the probable cause determination. Arguably more important was the determination of the role and the power of the court in this situation. In Ohio, this law allows for what are known as private, criminal complaints to be reviewed by a court. But the real issue is, can a court compel the arrest and prosecution of a defendant if the actual prosecutor does not want to get involved, or independent of the prosecutor's involvement. And the court in this case concluded that it does not have that power. Even through there is an Ohio statue on the books that says, in so many words, that if that judge had found probable cause, then warrants shall issue, not may, not if you want to, but shall issue. It's a fascinating discussion of conflict - direct conflict of two Ohio laws.

BERMAN: But essentially what it means is, as of now, this judge can't say there is probably cause, but it does not mean, as of now, the prosecutors are going to press charges necessarily.

Mel, let me tell you what the prosecutor is saying. Timothy McGinty put out a statement after this judge's ruling saying, "this case, as with all other fatal use of deadly force cases involving law enforcement officers, will go to the Grand Jury. That has been the policy of this office since I was elected. Ultimately, the Grand Jury decides whether police officers are charged or not charged." So, legally speaking, they believe that what the judge said

effectively means nothing. But politically speaking, practically speaking, Mel, doesn't this put an enormous amount of pressure on this prosecutor to have this grand jury indict?

MEL ROBBINS, CNN COMMENTATOR: Well, John, good morning. And good morning, Danny.

One would certainly hope why. And why would I say that? It's been 200 days, guys. The Michael Brown grand jury had a decision out almost 100 days. Marilyn Mosby, she indicted within a matter of weeks. What this case shows America is something that Danny and myself and all of the other legal analyst here at CNN have been saying, which is, there is a system in place with police officer investigations where the prosecutor, the local prosecutor that works with these police officers, John, has a tremendous amount of discretion. When will this be presented to the grand jury? When this prosecutor is good and ready to present it.

And clearly since 200 days, guys, there was snow on the ground when this 12-year-old was murdered within two seconds of the police officers showing up on the scene. Two hundred days have gone by. Nothing. Absolutely nothing has happened.

BERMAN: Mel -

ROBBINS: And I hope that this puts pressure on the prosecutor to do something.

BERMAN: Well, Mel, and you have worked as a prosecutor. What would it do to you if you had a judge sitting over here saying, hey, by the way, I've looked at this case and in like three days, because this happened Monday, in three days I decided there was probable cause. What pressure would that put on you? What would that feel like, Mel?

ROBBINS: Well, John, I was a criminal defense attorney, so normally I'm jumping up and down about things. But in terms of the prosecutor, this is an elected role. He might not care at all. He actually might be more emboldened. He might feel and have the psychological reaction of, screw you, you're not going to tell me what to do. I've held this office. I know what I'm doing. I will put this before the grand jury when I am good and ready. And what we all know is that if he wants an indictment, he would have put it before the grand jury already.

[06:25:07] BERMAN: And, Danny -

ROBBINS: The likelihood is that he doesn't want to prosecute this case, John. How do I know? He's waited 200 days and he still hasn't done anything.

BERMAN: Danny, you've talked to me about the importance of being careful and deliberate in this process, but what about what Mel is saying, this has taken months and months and months for this prosecutor to get this before a grand jury. This judge looked at the case for three days and decided there was probable cause. CEVALLOS: Well, the judge's roles is much more limited. He's just making that determination of probable case, which we - excuse me, which smaller court judges do every day, thousands of times a day. It's a much more - it's a lower burden and an easier determination to make. And this judge, understanding from the beginning that his role was going to be advisory, has that liberty of making that determination.

And what is also significant is he also found no probably cause as to some of the charges, which, again, are also advisory. Really more interesting in this case is his determination. That he has no power to issue those warrants. It would be a problematic world indeed if a judge could order prosecution without the involvement of the prosecutor. So, in that sense, the judge reached the right result. The fact that he did so, so quickly, compared to the prosecution, I don't think we should focus to much on because nationally we really shouldn't have an absolute standard of how many days are required to issue - or a determination of probable cause or decide to prosecute. That alone would be problematic.

ROBBINS: Yes, but 200 days, Danny. I mean, come on.

BERMAN: It's more than 200 days.

CEVALLOS: But 200 days - but then, again, I mean the Warren Commission took a long time. You could make the argument that with different investigations, there are different resources and different needs that need to be called upon.

BERMAN: Danny, Mel, we're going to leave it here right now. A lot more to discuss on this case to be sure and this judge may have created an even more complicated situation going forward. We'll stay on it. Danny, Mel, I appreciate it.

What's your take on this? Please, tweet us using the #newdaycnn or you're your comment on facebook.com/newday.

Ana.

CABRERA: It has been almost a week and two convicted killers are still on the run. Search dogs have the scent, but still no sign of those two escaped killers in upstate New York. And we're taking a closer look at the tools law enforcement are use, like dogs, and they're hunting for these captured - or to try to capture the fugitives.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)