Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

New York Manhunt Narrows to Area 3 Miles from Prison; Warriors Strike Back, Even Up Series 2-2; Democrats Object to Pacific Trade Measure. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired June 12, 2015 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:31:51] ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back.

The search is intensifying right now for those two escaped prisoners in Upstate New York. And authorities are focusing their search in this concentrated area about three miles from the prison where they escaped.

And we just learned some new information overnight about where this all began. Tracking dogs just picked up the scent in the last 24 hours or so at this gas station less than a mile from the Clinton correctional facility. That's where it began. They traced that scene all the way over to Cadyville.

And now, they're focusing in on this search area. Here's Dannemora, to give you some sense of direction here. But what's important are all these yellow dots in the area. These represent homes and buildings and other structures, 330 that are in this area. Some of them are seasonal homes, others might be abandoned. These are where those killers could be hiding.

And I want to talk more about tracking these clues with a couple experts here. Joining me are these two guests we have.

Duke Snodgrass, he is there with his dog, Montana. He is a specialist in training and placing bloodhounds like Montana with law enforcement, including the FBI.

Also joining me now is Ed Davis, he is the former Boston police department commissioner, and was the head of the department at the time of the Boston bombing and led the search for Dzhokhar Tsarnaev.

Gentlemen, thank you for joining us this morning. We appreciate it.

DUKE SNODGRASS, TRAINS & PLACES TRACKING BLOODHOUNDS: Thank you.

ED DAVIS, FORMER BOSTON POLICE COMMISSIONER: Good morning, Ana.

CABRERA: I just want to talk about the bloodhounds, and they really seem to make a huge different in the picking up the scent at the gas station.

Duke, how sensitive are the dog's noses? SNODGRASS: They are very sensitive. They're just the best animal on

Earth to do that type of work.

CABRERA: We keep hearing the dogs are picking up the scent. What does that mean? Does it mean the individuals could have been walking through an area or does it mean that they had to have been there longer?

SNODGRASS: No, no, these dogs are taught to work off a specific odor. It's what they call scent discriminating. And once these dogs are taught to do that and given the odor off something the person has wore or had hold of or something, the dog will lock in on the odor and it will work the odor no matter what. It's like they have to have it.

CABRERA: Is it very reliable, can you say with 100 percent certainty, if they have a hit, indeed those people were there?

SNODGRASS: Oh, no ma'am. You can't say 100 percent on anything. After all, they are an animal.

What you can do is rely on your training and your records and your proficiency level of working different cases and scenarios you have laid out. If the dog has been trained properly, it is most definite the dog can pick it up and tell you whether they have been there, or not. It can also, possibly, if it's been worked enough, trail the car, which way it left the station or wherever it might be.

CABRERA: All right. Duke, stay with us.

But, Ed, I want to turn to you. We mentioned the 330 structures in the search zone right now where officials are combing. At this point in the search, how would they divvying up responsibilities of researching and searching these structures?

[06:35:06] DAVIS: Well, they'll set up of perimeter based upon clues that they found at the scene to try to go far enough, the suspects will be inside the perimeter. Once they have done that, they will break it up into zones and different teams assigned to search those zones.

One of the problems and challenges you face in a residential area is that once you go into the area and search it, you can't leave, unlike a military operation with troops left at the scene, the search teams go through and then leave. So, the chance of suspects doubling back on you is one of the problems that the officials will be facing now.

CABRERA: We know there are a few other clues in this search. They found food wrappers, an area where they believe the suspect had been lying down at some point, kind of bedded grass or leaves.

Do you know, is there any way to date those clues?

DAVIS: That's extremely problematic from an investigators perspective. You tend to look at the physical evidence at the scene and combine it with potential witness statements to determine when that particular damage to the foliage occurred. But it's hard to do. You really need to bring in people, specialists who are in the woods

all the time who understand these things better than some of the police involved in the search. So, I'm sure, in addition to the officers charged with the searching, they will have experts being brought in, like Duke, who track people, but also who understand the woods and the forest better than the police do.

CABRERA: Right. And we know forest rangers are part of this investigation for that very reason.

Duke, tell me about these dogs, again. Can they be more specific about who they are smelling? So, can they tell investigators if it's one or two people and which one they might be smelling?

SNODGRASS: Well, no, they have to go off of a specific odor. They have to have something from one of those people. They won't track both at once. But what they will do, where they bedded down, they can take an odor pad or let the dog go to that scene and smell at that spot. And that dog will lock on to that odor and tell them which way they left and can possibly work -- continue a trail from there.

They are scent discriminated. They only take in one at a time. When they are done with that, they expel that and you can take them to the next.

CABRERA: Final question I want to ask you, we know that helicopters are being used. We have airplanes with infrared cameras that have heat sensors. There are hundreds of law enforcement officers scouring this area. And between 2002 and 2013, from 29 people had escaped, only one person was gone longer than two days before being captured.

So, are these two fugitives that smart or are they just lucky, do you think?

(CROSSTALK)

CABRERA: Go ahead, Ed.

DAVIS: It's probably a case of luck in this situation. We have used the forward looking devices in helicopters and planes. They do a very good job of identifying people in the wilderness.

So, you know, unfortunately, there are ways to evade them. They might have knowledge of that. But, the bottom line is, they're not going to stay out for long. They don't have, if they don't have assistance, if they don't have somebody moving them around, they are stuck in an area. And there's a lot of police resources there. I think they are going to wrap them up fairly quickly.

CABRERA: All right. We hope so. Thank you both so much for joining us. Davis, Duke Snodgrass, our appreciation to you -- John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Thanks, Ana.

You want strange? You want controversy? How about this? Questions about an NAACP official. Is she white? Is she black? Her estranged family now wants to clear the air.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:43:18] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Back to our top story, police focusing their manhunt for two fugitives in Upstate New York, just three miles from the prison after bloodhounds picked up a strong scent. Police also finding shoe imprints and food wrappers. We are also learning the prison worker who allegedly helped them escape had been investigated in the past for possible involvement with one of the inmates. She told investigators he made her feel special.

BERMAN: A new arrests in connection with alleged Boston terror plotter Usaama Rahim, Nicholas Rovinski, a friend of Rahim's, is expected in federal court today. The FBI says Rovinski and a third man David Wright encouraged Rahim to carry out an attack using knives. The alleged plot involved killing police and beheading activist and conservative blogger Pamela Geller. Rahim was shot dead in a confrontation with Boston police and FBI agents last week.

CABRERA: New questions this morning, swirling around the leader of a Spokane chapter of NAACP. Is Rachel Dolezal pretending to be part black? Her estranged parents coming forward, saying that Dolezal is actually white and has been falsely portraying her race for years.

When a local TV station KXLY pressed Dolezal about these allegations. Listen to what had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Are you African-American?

RACHEL DOLEZAL, NAACP PRESIDENT: I don't -- I don't understand the question.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: I don't understand the question.

Well, the city of Spokane, Washington, is now investigating Dolezal for possible ethics violations. The issue came to light after she made multiple questions to police about racial harassment.

BERMAN: You don't understand the question, let me rephrase it then. What I'm asking you if you're African-American, what I'm actually asking is, are you African-American?

[06:45:02] CAMEROTA: That clears it up.

CABRERA: What is your race?

BERMAN: Your parents might be a good source.

CAMEROTA: They are estranged? So, they might (INAUDIBLE)

BERMAN: They might, that's very true.

CAMEROTA: No, must you be black to work at the NAACP?

BERMAN: I don't know the answer to that.

CABRERA: I don't think so?

CAMEROTA: Well, then, why fudge your race?

CABRERA: That's the question.

BERMAN: Very fair question.

CAMEROTA: A lot of questions, some of which we understand.

BERMAN: Yes, in the realm of questions and answers that we do not fully understand, let's talk basketball, shall we?

The golden state warriors, they came up big in game four of the NBA Finals. The series now tied at two games a piece. This shifts back to Oakland.

But it's not the game, Andy Scholes, that people are talking about. Oh, no. It is what happened before the game. It was a short moment before the game, in the bleacher report, with his shorts.

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, good morning, guys.

Well, as we all know, LeBron, he has a camera an him at all times. Before the game, he was adjusting his shorts and accidentally lowered his compression shorts a little too far.

Here is the video that has everyone talking. Of course, we have blurred it for you. People are calling it the biggest wardrobe malfunction since Janet Jackson at the Super Bowl. If you want like to see more, you can go to the Internet.

As to the actual game, Golden State changing things up, going with a small lineup. Second quarter, Andrew Bogut coming off the bench, he fouls LeBron. LeBron went flying into the camera man. He winds up with a pretty good gash on the side of his head.

You know what makes it better? A kiss from mom. LeBron's mom coming over to the bench during the game to check on him.

Now, LeBron played through the pain. Here on the third, he catches the alley-hoop from Matthew Dellavedova. The Cavs down three at that point, but the Warriors outscored the Cavs by 15 in the fourth, behind the good night from MVP Steph Curry. Golden State wins this one easily, 103-82. The series now tied two games a piece, as it shifts back to the Bay Area for game five on Sunday.

SCHOLES: The U.S. women's team faces Sweden and former coach Pia Sundhage tonight in their second World Cup match. Now, Sundhage gave the Americans some bulletin board material when "The New York Times" published an interview with her, where she had not so nice words for some of her former players. Sundhage calling Hope Solo the most challenging player she's ever coached, especially when it comes to trouble. She also said she wouldn't start all-time goal scorer Abby Wambach if she was still coaching the U.S. team.

Now, Sundhage tried to back off the comments yesterday, but backing off it, she called Hope Solo a piece of work. And if you're Sweden, I'm not sure you want to be giving the U.S. some bulletin board material when you are the underdog heading tonight.

CABRERA: Still a darn good soccer player.

BERMAN: Yes.

CAMEROTA: There you go. All right. Andy Scholes, thanks so much for that.

So, this landmark trade bill is putting President Obama at odds with fellow Democrats. What the White House is doing to try to save it today from defeat. Our political panel here on that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:52:14] BERMAN: Nothing better than a Capitol Hill showdown. We have one today. In the House over President Obama's Pacific trade bill, a vote expected this morning. But it's the president's own party, the Democrats, who could block this moment. And this is a legacy defining moment for the president.

Joining us to talk about it, CNN political commentator and Republican consultant Margaret Hoover, and CNN political analyst and editor in chief of "The Daily Beast", John Avlon.

Margaret, let me ask you this.

We saw a remarkable sight -- President Obama went up to the Washington Nationals ballpark to watch the congressional baseball game. I think "Politico" noted there are two things that President Obama is not fond of -- Congress and baseball.

Yet, he was there. He was there to lobby not congressmen, but Democrats. He's with Nancy Pelosi for 15 minutes, trying to win votes from his own party.

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look how much he cares about baseball. He doesn't care at all about baseball. Look, I think --

JOHN AVLON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: He's a White Sox fan. But, move on.

HOOVER: He's not trying to win votes there. I mean, they are not talking legislation. They are talking about baseball.

What he's actually trying to do is demonstrate to the Democrats there in the dugout, that I'm still popular, I still have juice. You can't screw me on this. I need this legislation passed and I need you with me.

So, this was a posturing movement. I think he was trying to throw his weight around a bit, because he needs Democrats with him. And, frankly, Nancy Pelosi hasn't even said that she supports him on this.

AVLON: Yes.

CAMEROTA: And, John, why does the president support something that so few Democrats do?

AVLON: Well, I mean, first of all, the presidents historically support trade agreement. Presidents from both parties want fast track. That's part of the situational ethnics in this debate, is that, you know, you are getting -- Democrats, traditionally backed by labor, have a problem with these deals.

There's a feeling of being burned by NAFTA back in the Bill Clinton era, and there are provisions in this trade agreement to undercut those concerns. What you have here is interesting. You have Republicans who traditionally support free trade, some of whom are not supporting this because it's Obama's free trade.

HOOVER: The problem isn't the Republicans. You're going to get most Republicans. The problem is the Democrats not supporting their president.

CAMEROTA: Yes. OK, so two Democrats, many Democrats, I should say, met with Denis McDonough, the chief of staff yesterday. Two of them came out and spoke to "Politico" afterwards and used somewhat course and colorful language about what happened inside this meeting. Let me read it you.

This is from Congressman Pete DeFazio. "So I got up and said to McDonough, you are telling us we've got to facilitate your deal on this trade agreement, which is not a very good package and the president can't do anything for us, basically. I said that's bull blank, and it is. It's bull."

AVLON: OK, so -- nicely done, Mr. Congressman.

Look, Democrats are a tough sell. A lot of them feel very burned by NAFTA. But this administration in fairness has already put in a lot of provisions to try to address Democrats' concerns, from guaranteed minimum wage, for the right to organize, to environmental protections.

[06:55:00] So, the question, how much horse trading can be done? I mean, what is the congressman wants specifically in his district to pass this bill?

HOOVER: Just to interject here, this is a larger commentary, I think, not on the substance of the bill, but on the president's handling in relationships with Congress. You get centrist Democrats, generally, who say, if you haven't had real legislative experience, this president didn't have it. And it really has shown in his relationship with Congress, with Democrats and Republicans.

BERMAN: It maybe a case where Democrats don't do something because the president says so. It may show that he's losing clout.

Let's move on to another Democrat who wants to be in that position, who by the way hasn't weighed on this issue, notably.

AVLON: Yes.

BERMAN: Let's talk about Hillary Clinton making his first big public speech in a big, public rally here in Roosevelt Island tomorrow in New York. She's not going to lay out policy, which I think is understandable.

But she's going to talk about part of her life she thinks we haven't heard about before. She's going to talk about her mom, growing up middle class, sort of abandoned in the Depression era. Why is this person, John, who's been in public life for decades and decades, Hillary Clinton feels like she needs to find something we haven't heard about yet, that we might connect with more?

AVLON: This is part of the curiosity of Hillary Clinton. She's been reintroducing herself to the American people for 25 years now. And it gets tougher and tougher.

The story about her mother is the newest tact. But what this speech really is about is a reintroduction of here campaign and the rationalization for why she's running. She's going to hit the themes like middle class like we have heard before.

But talking about her mother is something she didn't do in 2008 when her mother was alive. But whenever a campaign needs to do a reintroduction, or a candidate does, that's a difficult day. This is not a time for policy. This is time for broad thematic and rational arguments.

CAMEROTA: They are basically calling this the official launch of her campaign, though. We thought that it had been launched a couple of months ago.

What do you think?

HOOVER: It just really boggles my mind somebody we have known in public life for 25 years is going to reintroduce herself, once again, to the American people so she can run for president. Again, it does sort of defy common sense in every way.

But, that said, we haven't heard her actually take the risk of intimacy, and to talk about things that are really personally, like her relationship with her mother, her mother's abandonment. And, you know, there is an opening for her to actually really be authentic, because that's the one thing Hillary lags on is her authenticity and her ability to connect with people.

AVLON: Be in person, always good advice.

CAMEROTA: Very quickly, "The Washington Post" is talking about Jeb Bush today and saying his campaign has run off course. What do you think about that?

HOOVER: He doesn't have a campaign yet. That's what's extraordinary about this. I mean, look, you cannot have a playbook that says I'm the biggest guy

in the race, I have the most name ID, I'm going to have the most money and therefore, I should get the nomination. That isn't going to fly.

CAMEROTA: Was that his playbook?

HOOVER: It certainly seemed that way to Republicans. And that's why you got 20 other people who clamored into the race behind him because they all though, uh-uh, not in this party. There's going to be a real --

(CROSSTALK)

AVLON: You know, he's had a bad few weeks. He's gone from being the presumptive front-runner to being middle of the pack. He's trying to shuffle things up in his campaign, but this is mission critical time.

It's a long way off for the first primary, folks. There's plenty of time. He's not pretending everything is right because it ain't.

BERMAN: No, he's opened the door to a lot of people like Margaret said, who perhaps he didn't think were going to be there when he started dabbling in this race six months ago.

All right. John Avlon, Margaret Hoover, great to have you.

CAMEROTA: Have a great weekend.

AVLON: All right, guys, you too.

CAMEROTA: All right. We are following a lot of news this morning. So, let's get right to it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police narrowing their search to a few square miles.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tracking dogs picked up the scent of two fugitives.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Joyce Mitchell --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She's not been arrested or charged.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They have no idea where they are. I don't think they've got a clue.

CABRERA: Charges against police officers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The ruling that came down is nonbinding.

CABRERA: In the shooting death of 12-year-old Tamir Rice.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's no arrest out for these two officers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Seventeen-year-old Ali Shukri Amin of Virginia is facing 15 years in prison.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pleading guilty to giving material support to ISIS.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In a prolific online presence that included 4,000 followers on his Twitter account.

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota and Michaela Pereira.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: Good morning, everyone. Welcome back to your NEW DAY.

Chris and Michaela are off this morning. John Berman and Ana Cabrera are here with me.

Great to have you, guys.

BERMAN: Great to be here.

CAMEROTA: All right. Meanwhile, bloodhounds are on the trail of two escaped convicts in upstate New York. Police are focusing their search just three miles away from the prison where Richard Matt and David Sweat escaped.

BERMAN: Shoe imprints, food wrappers, other proof of life suggesting that this duo may have been hiding in that area. Details emerging about the relationship between one of convicts and the prison employee that police think may have helped in this escape.

Our coverage begins this morning with CNN's Jason Carroll who is live in West Plattsburgh, New York.

Good morning, Jason.

JASON CAROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, John.

That section of 374, Routes 374 still closed at this hour. The Saranac Central School District has canceled classes again today for the second day, this as the search in this area continues.

Some new details about the trail they may have been on. Apparently, bloodhounds picked up the scent of these two men at a local gas station located just about a mile or so away from the prison.