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Signs Of Clinton Weakness; Bush: "I Don't Get Economic Policies" From "My Pope"; FDA Sets Deadline To Ban Trans Fats; Warriors Beat Cavaliers To Win NBA Title. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired June 17, 2015 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOHN KING, CNN HOST, "INSIDE POLITICS": In Ohio, the Quinnipiac did some polls in battleground states matching Secretary Clinton up against some of the Republicans. In Ohio, the governor, John Kasich, who is about to announce he is running for president, hasn't done it quite yet, he actually beats her in that key battleground state, and he can now crow Republicans can't win without Ohio, look, I can beat Hillary.

Let's move to Pennsylvania. Republicans every four years say can we get Pennsylvania? Well, at the moment, both Marco Rubio and Rand Paul, I'm going to say beating, that's a statistical tie, within the margin of the error of the poll, but showing very competitive against Hillary Clinton in the state of Pennsylvania.

Then we go down to the state of Florida, and you have Clinton, 47, Rubio, 44. The bottom line here is that, sure, she's the prohibited Democratic front-runner, but a little mix of Republican strength, maybe the history that after a two-term president, the other party tends to win.

This looks like a very, very competitive general election assuming she's the nominee, if the Republicans nominate somebody other than Donald Trump.

MJ LEE, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Other than Donald Trump. I think the poll shows and reconfirm that is Marco Rubio would be formidable against Hillary Clinton, at least in certain swing states. But I do think the question for Marco Rubio remains does he have the political way and operational gravitas to compete someone like Jeb Bush?

We haven't heard any fundraising numbers from him. We've heard the hundred million dollar figure about Jeb Bush. We haven't really heard any numbers from Marco Rubio. I think if the numbers are really strong, we would have heard something by now.

KING: Underneath this, Olivier, is the fact that in every one of these states, these battleground states the Quinnipiac polled in, by a margin of 8 percent to 14 percent, voters say do not find Hillary Clinton to be honest and trustworthy and they say in every one of these states that honesty and trustworthiness of the candidate is more important to them than their positions on any specific issue.

OLIVIER KNOX, YAHOO! NEWS: We've zeroed in on this weakness on this program and it is actually I think much more important than these hypothetical match ups state by state with people who may or may not be the nominee. The underlying numbers for Hillary are more problematic. I didn't see the breakdown of who spoke whether it's Republicans.

That would be a no brainer. She has trouble with the empathy numbers where people are not sure that they understand their concerns. Both of those are more problematic than these match ups.

KING: She has time, she has money and so do her super-PAC friends to address those. Instead of spending money bashing Republicans or doing her own biography, they have to do it with a special emphasis honesty and trustworthy.

Her first priority is to win the Democratic nomination. We all seem to take it for granted. Bernie Sanders is drawing big crowds and now he is getting better numbers. Look at this Suffolk University poll in New Hampshire, Clinton, 41, Sanders 31, Joe Biden, who is not going to run, we don't think at 7 percent, Martin O'Malley and then Lincoln Chafee and Jim Webb at 1 percent.

But 10 points, if you are Hillary Clinton and there's a guy named Bernie Sanders within 10 points of you in New Hampshire and he's from neighboring Vermont, and he's drawing some good crowds in Iowa, where you hit the quick sand if you're Hillary Clinton back in 2008. I don't want to say it will make you nervous, but it's going to make you work a little harder.

LEE: She really didn't do herself any favors by sort of fumbling on the trade question. It took her so long to answer that question and it's a question that someone like O'Malley or Sanders know what the answer is. They want Clinton to oppose it. It took forever to address the issue and just look strong on an important issue that dominated national headlines.

KNOX: He doesn't come across as a polished politician. His last name is not Clinton. He is rallying Democrats who come from the Elizabeth Warren wing of the party. So, he's benefiting from a lot of dynamics in this Democratic field.

I agree with you. I don't think she gets particularly worried, but it does, I think, force her to come out and detail her policy positions, which she has been doing over the past week or so, rolling out individual policy projects that I think are going to help her define her candidacy in the way she needs to.

KING: She is formidable. She is hardly invincible. We'll see how this goes up.

Let's move on to Jeb Bush. He's out on the road yesterday. In a town hall, he converted to Catholicism. He was asked about the pope. The pope says world leaders should get about the business of dealing with climate change. Jeb Bush, do you agree with the pope?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't get economic policy from my bishops or cardinals or my pope. I think religion ought to be about making us better as people and less about things that get them into the political realm.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: He doesn't want to take economic advice from the pope. What about the issue of doing something about climate change? He punted on that one.

LEE: Right. I mean, it's very easy for someone like Bush or Rubio to say, listen, I'm not getting my advice from the pope, certainly not on economic policy. But the question becomes, the pope is saying the leader of the Catholic Church is saying that climate change is manmade, global warming is an issue that we have to deal with by addressing how we consume fossil fuels and things like that. Are you saying you disagree with the pope, the head of your church? That's a tricky position for someone like Bush to be in.

[07:35:12] KING: Forgive me. Who could blame me the pope or someone on the subway train -- no disrespect to the pope, the politicians aren't dealing with this so why shouldn't everybody else in the world stand up and say let's have this conversation?

KNOX: Yes, all due respect to Jeb Bush, it's actually hard to think of an institution that is more about economic policies and politics over the course of history than the Roman Catholic Church. That's one thing I would say. The other is it's amazing how far we have come since JFK, who basically had to say, I'm not listening to the pope through a loyalty issue. Now, the problem is that Pope Francis is hugely popular worldwide.

LEE: I would also point out that, I mean, climate change is an issue that certain swing voters care a lot about, millenials, Hispanics.

KING: Let's have a conversation about it instead of pushing it a way. We'll have a policy debate. We'll see how that one plays out. The other guy I mentioned at the beginning, Donald Trump got into the race yesterday. He said a lot of interesting things that if I yell at China, they will do what I want. I will get Mexico to pay for the wall. A lot of things you might find out there. But he did prove one thing. Put him on a debate stage, he could be a problem for this guy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't see how he can possibly get the nomination. He's weak on immigration. He is in favor of common core. How the hell can you vote for this guy?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: This guy being Jeb Bush. The NBC/"Wall Street Journal" poll back a couple of months ago, said 74 percent of Republicans could not see themselves supporting Donald Trump. I don't think he's going to be the Republican nominee. If you put him on a debate stage and he is a showman, could me make life for Jeb Bush or whoever he decides to make target number one a lot more complicated? LEE: Right. I mean, the question will be when he's saying sort of bombastic things on the debate stage. It looks like there's a good chance that he is going to make it on the stage if he's a top ten candidate. Will Jeb Bush or someone like Marco Rubio, will they be able to handle the things that are thrown at them from Donald Trump without getting flustered?

What about the tier candidates? You know, is Donald Trump going to end up sucking all the energy and air away from them, who really need the attention and the air time?

KING: Really need the attention and the air time. Michaela, it's interesting. He is a candidate now. I have said a lot of not so nice things about Donald Trump over the months and years, but now he is an official candidate. We have to watch him. If he gets that place on the debate stage, we have to treat him as one of the ten, I guess.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: It will definitely make for some very interesting moments and a gigantic debate too.

KING: I feel Jake's pain. Jake tapper does the first debate. I feel the pain.

PEREIRA: We will surround him with love. All right, John King, thanks so much for that.

We are going to talk about transfats. They are soon a thing of the past in American foods. How big of a deal is that? We are going to ask the good doctor, Sanjay Gupta. He is here to break it down.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:41:59]

PEREIRA: Something is soon going to be missing from your food. The FDA is giving food manufacturers three years to remove transfats from their products. What inspired this bold move? CNN chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta is here to break it down for us, and of course, notwithstanding the wonderful relationship the two of you have.

He brought French fries, cookies and doughnuts. First of all, the FDA is no longer generally recognized as safe this transfat. What is this, the Wells Report, more probably than not? It's bad for us. Didn't we know this already?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: We have. It is a vague term the FDA uses and it's saying the preponderance of evidence is in one way or another. We have known, here in New York they have banned it since 2006. In other countries, it's been happening for some time.

Dating back to the early '90s, at least there's evidence of this. This is a long time coming. The FDA has been heel dragging on it. The industry, obviously, at first, was against it. They said transfat is great, reduce the cost of food, longer shelf life, things taste better.

The history was everything used to be cooked in animal fat. They have the perfect solution. We'll come up with transfats that are healthier than animal fats. That was the thinking 30 or 40 years ago. We now know it's worse than animal fat. It's been a long time coming.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: So where do we go from here. You have all this food in front of you.

PEREIRA: It's not just his breakfast.

CUOMO: This is something different. What do you want to tell us?

GUPTA: These are examples. People ask what typically has transfats in it? It's a type of oil and what typically you feel with foods with transfat is less of a taste and more of a mouth feel. It's a creamier texture with transfats. Margarine is transfats, butter is not. People, for a long time, ask them, they say butter is the bad stuff. It got demonized. Again, it's the opposite.

CUOMO: So butter is better than margarine?

GUPTA: Butter is better than margarine.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: So what companies have to change their recipe?

GUPTA: Every company is going to have to change their recipe. I can't think of, obviously, real foods, things that use real, whole foods and vegetables and fruits, they won't. Anything with anything remotely processed that's been adding transfats. Fast food companies, a lot of restaurants. This is going to change.

It's a big deal. By the way, in New York, I tried to find transfats. These doughnuts don't have transfats. Here in New York, you can't find doughnuts with transfats anymore since 2006. These French fries do not have transfats.

CAMEROTA: From a fast food restaurant?

GUPTA: From a fast food restaurant. Go to the margarines, certain processed foods you buy in grocery stores.

CUOMO: So but then, transfats are bad, I got it. Now you have a doughnut, but that doesn't mean the doughnut is good.

[07:45:06] PEREIRA: Unless it's dipped in wheat germ, right?

GUPTA: Better than it used to be, I would say. Look, that's not just me saying that, there's data on this as well. In Denmark, for example, in 2003, they banned transfats, so 12 years ago. You can see what's happened to coronary heart disease. It's dropped significantly over a period time, 70 percent since the early 90s, but a significant amount of time over the 12 years.

So it makes a difference. It's too early in New York, yet, but in the next few years, we are going to see what it's done for New York as well.

PEREIRA: But here's the question, why does it take three years to change production? Because I got to tell you, they should be able to pivot a little quicker than three years.

GUPTA: I agree. These negotiations with the industry in terms of the existing products that are already out there, their shelf life, how long it takes to change a manufacturing process, define what they are going to use instead of transfats, what types of oils are they going to use. That takes a little time. Three years may be too long. If you were the FDA commissioner, you would make it six months.

PEREIRA: I would make it immediately.

CAMEROTA: In the meantime, you can do your own label checking for partially hydrogenated oil.

GUPTA: That's the main ingredient in transfats.

PEREIRA: The good doctor looked at my humas for me and I'm OK. You better run with the doughnuts.

(CROSSTALK)

PEREIRA: I love these people.

CUOMO: If you think the transfat thing took a long time, how about 40 years. That's how long it took the Golden State Warriors to say, we are the champions.

Don't miss Rachel Nichols one-on-one with Warrior star league MVP, the champ himself, Steph Curry. He can fill it up.

PEREIRA: You want to see funny stuff?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:51:05]

(VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: They know from droughts in California, but as you saw right there, one of them is over. The Golden State Warriors NBA champs for the first time in 40 years. CNN's Rachel Nichols spoke with the team's superstar, Steph Curry. Not to get away from the game, but I've got to tell you his kid -- to see little Reilly again was great.

RACHEL NICHOLS, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Most famous 2-year-old in the country, right, Chris? Unbelievable and so adorable. I asked Steph Curry how do you feel about having Riley be part of all this moment? Is she going to get her own mini-trophy?

He joked that maybe they'd have to make her a mini-championship ring. She deserved one. Having Riley along for the ride has been great for Steph Curry and the whole journey at large. This is a guy who wasn't recruited to a big time college program. When he came into the NBA a lot of people thought he'd be too small to make an impact and look at him now holding the NBA trophy. We talked about all of that after the game. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHEN CURRY, GOLDEN STATE WARRIORS GUARD: The injuries, the underdog story, it make this is moment so much more special. Having to fight your way every single year and get a little bit better, having a great group of teammates, this is a bond we'll have forever and just proud to bring a championship back to the bay area. This is what it's all about.

NICHOLS: You grew up in the NBA. There are great pictures of you sitting on your dad's lap. He's playing, to go from there to now getting the trophy yourself, does it mean more to you because you've been watching it your whole life?

CURRY: For sure. You see the faces of guy who is join that fraternity of championship and took over the family business. My dad played for 16 years. It puts it into perspective how hard it is to win a championship. This is truly, truly special.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: When you look at him, Rach, what box does he not check? Yes, he's got the underdog story, the father-son bond. He's got the kid an he's under sized. What does this not give you?

NICHOLS: Yes, he's just pyrotechnic on the basketball court too. You don't have to be a basketball junky to love watching him play because he's just beautiful out there with the way he plays the game.

And then of course on the other side, you have Lebron James, that was a story we've all been following since he came back to Cleveland last summer. A lot of heartbreak around this city this morning, Chris, I got to tell you. A lot of hope as well.

Look, they got here with several major players injured. Lebron had a historic finals performance, really could not have given more physically, mentally, anything. And hopefully they'll come back next year with a few more bodies to help them out.

CUOMO: Yes, he's got to get a bigger bench. But you know, it's interesting you have a team who broke the jinx, but Lebron showed he's the best prayer in the world, which he did. Rach, thank you so much. Great interview.

CAMEROTA: Thanks, Rachel. All right, police in upstate New York expanding their search for those two convicted killers on the run and investigating whether they had more help from inside the prison. We will have a live update on the search.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Despite more than 1,000 leads, still no sign of Richard Matt and David Sweat.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Joyce Mitchell warned her husband Lyle Mitchell that he was in danger.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sees her husband for the first time since her arrest.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He said that he is standing by her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will take that bullet?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Guys, back up. Back up.

TRUMP: I am officially running for president of the United States! I'm using my own money. I'm really rich.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: All right, good morning. Welcome back to your NEW DAY. It's Wednesday, June 17th, 8:00 in the east. Police in upstate New York are looking outside the jail for two escaped murderers and inside the jail for any convicts and staff who helped them do it and that level plot thickens.

CAMEROTA: This as Joyce Mitchell, the prison worker who allegedly helped the killers escaped gets a jailhouse visit from her husband. How much did he know about the plot? CNN's Alexandra field brings us the latest from Dannemora, New York. Good morning, Alexandra.

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn. A lot of new details revealed about the plot to escape and the plans in place, but when it comes to the search, we're also hearing from officials the acknowledgment that really these two fugitives could be just about anywhere.

The decision made now to remove the road blocks that were out here near the prison. Investigators have covered 16 square miles in the nearby area, but they now say that police will pursue individual leads based on whatever information is coming in.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FIELD (voice-over): After more than a thousand leads, authorities are expanding, shifting their search around upstate New York.

JOHN CUFF, FORMER HEAD, NORTHWEST FUGITIVE INVESTIGATION DIVISION: These are criminals, OK. They are going to rely on what they know best so there's been no reports of any carjacking, any break ins, that's not to say that might --