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S.C. Governor: 'Take Down Confederate Flag'; Escaped Killers' DNA Found in Cabin; Source: Tools Possibly Hidden in Frozen Meat; Tornadoes Tear Across Upper Midwest; White House Defends Obama's Use of "N" Word. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired June 23, 2015 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GOV. NIKKI HALEY (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: It's time to move the flag from the capitol grounds.

[05:58:35] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a memorial to our ancestors as we fought a war defending our land.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: This is an issue that they should debate and work through and not have a bunch of outsiders going in and telling them what to do.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Officers saying they've confirmed their most credible lead yet.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: DNA consistent with both of the suspects on the run.

TERRY BELLINGER, LOCAL RESTAURANT OWNER: I know somebody broke in our camp, and I saw one guy running away.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The investigators are looking at whether tools or other contraband was hidden inside frozen hamburger meat.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The president himself used the "N" word.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Do you think that it desensitizes the word, if the president uses it?

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I don't think he should have said it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Certainly, the president got our attention.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota and Michaela Pereira.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It's Tuesday, June 23, 6 a.m. in the east. And we have new information on the manhunt for those two fugitives in upstate New York. We're going to give you that in a moment. But first, this is a serious issue. South Carolina lawmakers made quick changes, and they changed their tune as well about their Confederate flag. The state's Republican governor, Nikki Haley, now calling for the flag to be removed from the grounds of the state capitol. This, of course, in the wake of last week's church massacre.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: And the furor over the Confederate symbol spreading across the south, with a top Mississippi lawmaker now demanding changes to his state's flag. So we begin our coverage with CNN's Ana Cabrera. She's live in Columbia, South Carolina, with all the latest for us.

Good morning, Ana.

ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.

There's already a lot of energy out here today. A much different story than what we saw just 24 hours ago. And we're expecting a huge take-down-the-flag rally to start here at the capitol in just the next few hours. This as lawmakers are going to be returning to do some work today, as well on the budget.

But you know the Confederate flag will be on their mind. And it is ultimately up to them to decide the flag's future.

But we've seemed to reach a tipping point in this debate, with major national, state and now business leaders joining the call to take down the flag. In fact, Wal-Mart and Sears are among retailers even pulling Confederate merchandise from their shelves in a show of support for this effort.

And the governor, Nikki Haley, who has previously supported the flag's position here at the Confederate War Memorial, changing her tune, surrounded by a group of bipartisan lawmakers to announce this movement. And she said, while in the past she supported it, she's also recognized that it's a symbol that divides more than unites, and that's why it's time to go.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HALEY: The flag will always be a part of the soil of South Carolina. But this is a moment in which we could say that that flag, while an integral part of our past, does not represent the future of our great state.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Now, Senator Lindsey Graham, who's from South Carolina -- of course, he's also a 2016 presidential contender -- he issued a statement, as well. He says, "I hope that by removing the flag, we can take another step toward healing and recognition and a sign that South Carolina is moving forward."

Again, it's going to be up to state lawmakers to decide this issue. And it will require a two-thirds majority to agree for the flag to come down. We expect a debate to happen on this issue in the next days and weeks. So we'll be watching, but the pressure is definitely on right now, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: And it does seem that lawmakers' positions on this continue to evolve sort of day by day. So Ana, thanks so much. We'll check back in.

The tension over the Confederate flag also reaching a tipping point in Mississippi. House Speaker Philip Gunn says the Confederate emblem on the flag needs to be removed. This is the first time an elected Republican in the state has publicly called for the removal of that symbol. The state flag unchanged since 1894, despite a failed referendum to change it in 2001.

CUOMO: All right. So let's get to these new clues in the New York manhunt. Here's what it is. DNA from fugitives Richard Matt and David Sweat has been discovered in a cabin about 25 miles from the prison. Seems like it could be a big break. Why is it qualified? Because, well, they still don't know where they are.

CNN's Sara Ganim live in Owls Head, New York, near the cabin where that DNA was found. They believe that they were there. They just don't know where they are. Fair point?

SARA GANIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Fair point, Chris. Yes, good morning.

This is yet another day of the search with rain in the forecast, Chris. It's not great news for these search teams out there. But authorities here tell us they remain confident that this new lead, this DNA evidence will keep them on the right track and will eventually lead them to these fugitives.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GANIM (voice-over): Hundreds of state and federal officers redeployed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a confirmed lead for us. We're going to run this to the ground.

GANIM: Flooding this heavily wooded area in upstate New York over 20 miles from the maximum-security prison.

KEVIN MULVENHILL, OWLS HEAD SHERIFF: I don't think it would take a real woodsman to get on a power line and follow a power line to, say, an ATV trail.

GANIM: Authorities converging here after a witness spotted someone running from one of the area's many cabins on Saturday. Investigators finding the DNA of the escapees, Richard Matt and David Sweat, inside, the camp burglarized. Officials worry the fugitives may be a step ahead of the officers, if they're monitoring police and radio communication.

MULVENHILL: It's very rough terrain. It's not easy to get to. It's not easy to traverse.

GANIM: A restaurant owner says he spoke to the person whose cabin was broken into soon after he made the discovery.

BELLINGER: He stressed the point. He said, "I'm not saying it's them." But he says, "I know somebody broke in our camp, and I saw one guy running away."

GANIM: Officials say there is still no evidence the fugitives have any kind of support network outside of the prison, but they are reviewing months' worth of hotel registries in the area.

MAJ. CHARLES GUESS, NEW YORK STATE POLICE: If you return to your camp, if anything is out of place, call 911 immediately. No lead is too small for us to investigate.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GANIM: Now, I want to mention that there isn't great cell service out here. It's very spotty. And we heard authorities say yesterday that they are a little concerned that these two fugitives may be monitoring police radio communications.

Last week, when we talked to the district attorney, he did tell us that there are inmates inside the prison who were interviewed after this escape, and they told authorities that they did see these two inmates who escaped with cell phones inside the prison before they broke out -- Michaela.

[06:05:02] MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Another level of concern. All right, Sara. Thank you.

Meanwhile, how did these two brazen killers get the tools behind bars to break out of a maximum-security prison? CNN is learning new details about how they smuggled them in, those weapons -- or those tools and who may have helped the fugitives. CNN's new correspondent, Boris Sanchez, is live in New York with that part of the story.

Welcome to NEW DAY, Boris, and welcome to CNN.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thank you so much, Michaela.

We're about five miles away from the Clinton Correctional Facility here in Cadyville. Investigators are looking at the possibility that these inmates got tools into their cells through frozen hamburger meat. They're looking at the possibility that Joyce Mitchell may have convinced a guard at the prison to pass the meat through into the prison without going through a metal detector. As you can imagine, that's a violation of prison policy.

Meantime, Gene Palmer remains on administrative leave. He's a guard that received a painting from Richard Matt. You might recall, he was questioned for 14 hours by investigators over the weekend, though he has not been charged. He -- his lawyer says he knew nothing about the plan for escape. Obviously, we'll keep you posted on the latest details in that investigation -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Boris, thank you so much. We want to bring in now John Cuff. He is the former head of the

Northeast Fugitive Investigation Division at the U.S. Marshals Service.

John, great to have you with us.

JOHN CUFF, FORMER HEAD, NORTHEAST FUGITIVE INVESTIGATION DIVISION, U.S. MARSHALS SERVICE: Good morning, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK. So now that it has been reported that they found these fugitives' DNA in this cabin, how does that change the search?

CUFF: Well, it's a game changer for law enforcement. It's a significant break. It's the kind of break law enforcement needs to move forward on these cases. A couple of DNA at the siting, the phone call about two individuals running, it looks very promising. Although it's probably a 48-hour head start.

CAMEROTA: So what does that mean? Do they narrow the radius in which they're searching in the woods?

CUFF: Well, law enforcement's going to cast a wider net, so to speak, you know, to an outer perimeter and probably work in. It's difficult terrain. Obviously, it's going to be porous at some points.

CAMEROTA: I mean, you know, look, it's difficult for investigators. That means it's also difficult for the fugitives.

CUFF: Absolutely. Even with a 48-hour jump, I mean, even if they had some provisions from the cabin, I mean, they've got to be hunkered down somewhere. You've got to figure aviation is up; the dogs are out. So it's -- I think it's probably a matter of time. Hopefully shorter than -- shorter than longer.

CAMEROTA: It just seems like they're getting close.

Let's talk about those provisions, because this is where they got the DNA. So there was this hunting cabin in the woods. And there, they found boots, bloody socks, a water jug and a jar of open peanut butter on the table. What does that tell you about what their life has been like for this past, you know, two weeks?

CUFF: Well, it's kind of what we suspected. I mean, they're going to be weather-beaten; they're going to be fatigued. They're going to be -- the unknown here, even though the DNA was found in the cabin, OK, you really don't know with certainty how long they were in the cabin or how long that DNA...

CAMEROTA: So there's no way to time stamp that DNA to say that, OK, they were here 48 hours ago?

CUFF: Not really. But law enforcement, as they process that cabin, they will be looking for other indicia of flight and things like that. So they would have searched the garbage and things. The garbage could be a telltale sign. I mean, wrappers. You could kind of take a guess at how long they might have been in there. But -- but it's coupled with the sighting of these two guys running. I mean, it kind of suggests that they were probably in there recently.

CAMEROTA: Doesn't it also suggest that they didn't have a plan, that they're winging it?

CUFF: It does appear that. I mean, you can't rule out any other possibility. It could have been a Plan "A." But the mere fact, in the absence of a getaway car, they got put into a tail spin, and they had to improvise as they're moving along.

CAMEROTA: Here's an interesting wrinkle. That hunting camp where this stuff was found is owned by a group of corrections officers.

CUFF: That's right.

CAMEROTA: Is that a coincidence or does that mean that they had inside help?

CUFF: I could -- I couldn't comment on that.

CAMEROTA: But as investigators...

CUFF: That's something that will be looked at by the investigators.

CAMEROTA: So when you find out that it's owned by a group of corrections officers from Clinton Correctional Facility...

CUFF: Of course.

CAMEROTA: ... then you go...

CUFF: Of course. You're going to look: Is there a connection? And look into, you know, how did they come about this? They're certainly going to look into that. But I mean, as far as what's been reported, there's no suggestion of a connection.

CAMEROTA: One last possible connection. There was this case of Bucky Phillips.

CUFF: Yes.

CAMEROTA: He was an escapee from prison. This is back in 2006. He was on the run for five months. He was captured in Pennsylvania. And he also used stuffed sweatshirts with other filling to make it look like there was a dummy in the bed, or make it look like there was a real person in the bed. He's now serving life in Clinton prison.

The point here is that he hid in hunting cabins. He was in the woods, and he did this. Would they, today, be going to him and say, "Tell us how you did it"?

CUFF: You know, that's very likely. It's a good point, Alisyn. But I'm familiar with Bucky Phillips' case. Bucky -- the difference here, Bucky was a mountain guy. In fact, he was tied to the Indian reservations up there. He had extensive contacts in the Indian reservations. So his flight, he may have had or sought assistance, being familiar with those mountains, OK? [06:10:25] His mistake -- and all these fugitives make mistakes.

These guys will make a mistake. You can take that to the bank. But in his case, he went down to a car and stole a -- off the mountain, stole a cell phone. So that's what led to his apprehension.

CAMEROTA: Well, John Cuff, you are right. They will make a mistake. It's just a matter of time.

CUFF: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: And seems like investigators are getting closer. Thanks so much for all the info.

CUFF: Thank you, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: All right. Make sure to tune in tonight at 9 p.m. for a CNN special report on this prison escape itself. It's called "The Great Prison Escape." And it just retraces the steps of how we got to where we are today in this search -- Chris.

CUOMO: So Alisyn, new this morning, parts of Illinois are in serious distress. A series of bad weather systems, including fierce tornadoes, just ripping across the state. Rescue crews are now scrambling to find victims who very well may be trapped. CNN meteorologist Chad Myers is going to tell us what has happened there and why and, most importantly, where these storms are headed next.

What do you got, Chad?

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes, they're headed to the northeast, Chris. They're headed toward you. They're headed toward New York, Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, all the way down to West Virginia. At least 13 reports of damage yesterday from tornadoes, and some could be on the ground as early as this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Holy cow! Oh, my God! That thing is -- that thing's live! It's live!

MYERS (voice-over): Tornadoes tearing through much of the country's Midwest. A weather phenomenon known as a derecho, a powerful line of storms, blasting residents from South Dakota to Michigan.

Rains whipping sideways, flooding roads relentlessly. Chicago's airports cancelling and delaying hundreds of flights due to severe weather. This morning, emergency crews working around the clock to respond to trapped residents. Others rescued from their toppled trailers. Those who make it out unscathed lucky to be alive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Walking out to my grandmother's trailer, the whole entire front frame from the tree hitting it came down on my grandmother's car. And there's no roof now on her trailer.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's a miracle I'm alive today. It is. MYERS: In eastern Michigan, several towns still reeling from the merciless twisters that ripped through there, snapping trees and collapsing buildings, leaving five people injured.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's like thunder, and it wouldn't quit. Lightning, I mean, constant.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Trailers on top of trailers, flipped over, totally destroyed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wow, this is incredible. This is incredible.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MYERS: The enhanced risk of severe weather today all the way from almost Maine down into Pennsylvania. There's the orange area here. Boston, you're included in that orange or the enhanced risk. Part of warm air. It's warm in New York City right now, warm in D.C. Then the cold front comes in, pushes that warm air up in the sky.

There's your forecast radar for today. Almost all the cities could see something today. We go from 92 today to 75 on Friday. That's the cold air in New York City. Eighty-three to 67 in Boston. That's the cold air pushing the warm air up. Michaela, it will be a bumpy day across the Northeast today.

PEREIRA: All right. We'll stick with you, Chad. Thanks so much for that. We appreciate it.

The Charleston church massacre and its aftermath leading President Obama to discuss racial tensions in unprecedented terms. The president used the "N" word in an interview to drive his point home. The White House now defending the president's use of this word.

CNN's Sunlen Serfaty live at the White House with more on Obama's unguarded moments -- Sunlen.

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It certainly did seem like an unguarded moment, Michaela, especially for a president who is usually very deliberate, very careful about everything that comes out of his mouth. Some are reacting negatively, saying it was such a jarring word and offensive to so many, to hear it come from the president's mouth was really shocking.

And there's been a lot of conflicting reaction within the African- American community. Many agree with the context of the broader point he was trying to say. But some, like the NAACP president, who says they really wish that President Obama did not use that specific word. Here's what President Obama said in the podcast interview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Racism, we are not cured of it. Clearly. And it's not just a matter of it not being polite to say nigger in public. That's not the measure of whether racism still exists or not. It's not just a matter of overt discrimination. We have -- societies don't overnight completely erase everything that happened 200 to 300 years prior.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SERFATY: And the White House says the president does not regret using the word. It wasn't something they say he intentionally went into the interview knowing that he would do, but they say it more resulted in the casual nature of the interview, done in a garage. And they say it was the free-flowing nature of that conversation that led President Obama to make that point. Here's more of what the president was trying to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[06:15:08] OBAMA: The legacy of slavery, Jim Crow, discrimination in almost every institution of our lives, you know, that casts a long shadow, and that's still part of our DNA. That's -- that's passed on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SERFATY: Meanwhile, this discussion of the use of the word comes as he's preparing for his trip to Charleston this week, along with first lady Michelle Obama and Vice President Biden. President Obama will deliver the eulogy for Reverend Pinckney on Friday -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Thanks so much for of that. Well, President Obama's fast- track trade deal coming back from the brink. This is after a strategic and unlikely partnership with two top Republican leaders in Congress. The trade deal facing a key Senate vote today. Still too soon to say if enough Democrats are on board. But if it passes, it would grant the president so-called fast-track authority while allowing Congress the ability to approve, but not change or filibuster the deals.

CUOMO: All right. Here's one of those really scary, really brave moments. A heart-stopping video out of Delaware. A train plows into an SUV, drags it a quarter of a mile before coming to a complete stop, because it's a big train. Fortunately, the 76-year-old driver, who was stuck on the tracks, was not inside when the train collided with his SUV.

Why not? Quick-thinking Newark police officers pulled him out just seconds before impact. The man, shaken up but OK.

PEREIRA: Goodness. Yes, to witness that and know that you could have been in that vehicle would have been very terrifying.

CAMEROTA: It's scary how often cars get stuck on tracks.

CUOMO: It is. And to beat the drum, I know we're past Philadelphia now, but positive train control, they're still trying to extend it. Positive train control automatically slows down trains. It doesn't stop everything, but it could make a big difference. Still not done.

CAMEROTA: There you go.

All right. The furor over the Confederate flag is heating up in South Carolina. The governor calling for this removal from the state capitol. Should there be a debate at this point? Well, there is, and we'll tell you both sides.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[06:21:04] HALEY: Today, we are here in a moment of unity in our state, without ill will, to say it's time to move the flag from the capitol grounds.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Sometimes even after a low point, there can be what many would call progress. Of course, the shooting in Charleston, South Carolina, started a conversation about the flag there. And you just saw the governor calling for the Confederate flag to be removed from the state capitol grounds.

So now, Mississippi is next up. They, too, as you can see, have a strong reference to the Confederate battle flag in their state flag. There's now pressure from a lawmaker there to change the flag. Is this going to happen? Should it happen?

Bakari Sellers, CNN contributor, former South Carolina state representative, joins us.

Bakari, we understand what went into this flashpoint with the South Carolina flag. Mississippi next up. What is the argument for the extension of this progress, let's call it in quote, of changing the flag away from the Confederate symbol.

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I think one of the things that we're actually seeing are the economics of the flag. I mean, first, there's this visceral emotion and a reaction to the flag being there. There's so much death associated with it. Right now, we have nine more lives that are associated with it.

But now even in South Carolina, you have Michelin; you have Boeing; you have Sunoco; you have the business community, the chamber; the South Carolina Association of Manufacturers all coming out against the flag being there. So you're seeing the economics. And the debate is totally shifting. This is now a mainstream debate. And this is just the beginning of a debate that, surprisingly enough, people really want to have about race.

And I think this is a debate that will be lasting more than just today. More than just in Mississippi. This is a debate that will last for a while.

CUOMO: It's interesting. People are saying online, "Hey, you know, if people hadn't been killed in that black church, we probably wouldn't be seeing this right now," as if that was mitigating the effectiveness of what we are seeing right now. That doesn't make this less important that it's coming off on the heels of a tragedy, does it? SELLERS: No, it doesn't. In fact, it gives it a higher import. I

mean, you have to think, for those of us who lost somebody that we know, somebody that we worked with, somebody whose legacy where he even stated that sometimes you have to make noise to be free. That was Clementa's statement. You know, it makes you understand that they lived their life for a purpose.

Those nine people gave their life up for a greater good. We have been trying to take this flag down since it went up as a resistance tool in 1962.

CUOMO: Though Bakari, while that's true -- while that's true, help me understand one thing. This is why I stop you. When I look at the numbers now, in Mississippi they had a referendum in 2001, 2003, something like that. Georgia, the poll in South Carolina. You do not see clear evidence of black outrage at the symbol. How do you account for that?

SELLERS: Well, that actually is true. I think that we have three groups of people, because I stood with Senator Vincent Sheheen in the campaign for governor and lieutenant governor back about eight months ago. And even Democrats were asking us, "Why are we taking -- why are you asking to take the flag down?"

You have three groups of people, people who despise this flag and everything it stands for. You have people who believe this flag is heritage, not hate. And then you have the group of people who really don't care and are tired of having the discussion. Those people who really don't care and are tired of having the discussion are now on the side of taking the flag down. This has been a very winding, winding, winding road, and I look forward to it permeating, even in states other than Mississippi.

CUOMO: And that's a great last point to make. I'm introduced to a new word. I am introduced to a new word now, that I'll give to you. You probably know it, and to the audience. Vexillology, which is the study of symbols and flags and how they're used.

[06:25:08] And people look at this, Bakari, and there are other flags. There's Alabama, which has the Confederate -- what seems to be the Confederate cross on it. There's Arkansas, which, according to the vexillologists, says that they have strong Confederate references. Here they are. There's five of them up on your screen.

You also have Georgia that went through a transition like this. You have Tennessee. You have Florida, which is the flag in the top right there. Where do you go with this? Do all of these flags have to go? Does each deserve separate consideration? Is there a "too far" involved with something like this?

SELLERS: I think each deserves its own separate consideration. I don't think there's any doubt about what the flag in South Carolina stood for. I don't think there's any doubt about what the flag in Mississippi stands for.

I mean, if you talk about Philadelphia, Mississippi, if you talk about the city that is the size of this studio that I'm in here in Columbia, but yet it has so much heartache and pain and the deaths of Goodman, Schwerner and Chaney, then, yes, I think that when you wrap this flag in all of those things, you understand that that is a debate that needs to be had in Mississippi.

But I will tell you, I'm not a vexillologist or anything of the sort. I don't really have time to go back and get another degree right now. But it's worthy consideration in each and every state where these divisive symbols fly above capitols and state domes.

CUOMO: And it will probably be more interesting to hear what the resistance is than what the promotion is of the change. It's obvious why you would want to change this, why people resist South Carolina being a hate crime or terrorism, where changing these flags will be an interesting part of the conversation. Let's see what the pushback is.

Bakari, thank you very much for joining us. We'll continue this conversation, because there will be more to come. Appreciate it - Mick.

PEREIRA: All right. Another story here that is garnering a lot of attention. He denied it for decades. Now there is new evidence that Pete Rose bet on baseball while he was playing. What does this all mean for his Hall of Fame chances? We'll take a closer look when NEW DAY continues.

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