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Manhunt Continues for Two Escaped New York Prison Inmates; SC Governor Nikki Haley and sen. Lindsey Graham Call for Confederate Flag to be Moved State Capital Grounds; New Debate Over Mississippi Confederate State Flag. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired June 23, 2015 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SARA GANIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We've even seen some lightning storms, something that has been plaguing this investigation many of the 18 days that it's been going on.

[08:00:02] But I can tell you that they're still bussing in hundreds of police officers for this search to continue. We just saw six school buses filled with police officers and search crews, plus about a dozen other vehicles carrying all sorts of equipment coming into this command post for the search area. And authorities telling us that they are confident that this new lead, this DNA evidence has them on the right track to find these fugitives.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GANIM: Hundreds of state and federal officers redeployed.

MAJOR CHARLES GUESS, NEW YORK STATE POLICE: This is a confirmed lead for us. We're going to run this to ground.

GANIM: Flooding this heavily wooded area in upstate New York over 20 miles from the maximum security prison.

KEVIN MULVERHILL, OWLS HEAD SHERIFF: I don't think it would take a real woodsman to get on a power line and follow a power line to an ATV trail.

GANIM: Authorities converging here after a witness spied someone running from one of the areas many cabins on Saturday. Investigators finding the DNA of the escapees Richard Matt and David Sweat inside, the camp burglarized. Officials worry the fugitives may be a step ahead of the officers if they are monitoring police and radio communications.

MULVERHILL: It's very rough terrain. It's not easy to get to. It's not easy to traverse.

GANIM: A restaurant owner says he spoke to the person whose cabin was broken into soon after he made the discovery.

TERRY BELLINGER, LOCAL RESTAURANT OWNER: He stressed the point. He said "I'm not saying it's them." But he said "I know somebody broke into that camp and I saw one guy running away." GANIM: Official say there is still no evidence the fugitives have any

kind of support network outside of the prison, but they are reviewing months worth of hotel registries in the area.

GUESS: If you return to your camp and anything is out of place, call 911 immediately. No lead is too small for us to investigate.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GANIM: I want to mention something. This is a very rural area, lots of trails. There isn't great cell service at all. It's actually very spotty. But investigators did say yesterday that they are worried that these two men might have some way of monitoring police and radio communication. The district attorney did tell us that when they interviewed other inmates who knew these two inside the prison, they had seen them with cell phones, which they are not supposed to have, before they escaped. Chris?

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Sara, thank you very much. So that's the most important part of the situation is catching the bad guys. But then we have the focus on how did they do this. And it turns out the killers managed to obtain sophisticated tools to break out of prison. And how they did that and who may have turned a blind eye to it, new information on both.

Let's bring in CNN's Boris Sanchez live in Cadyville, New York with that part of the story. Boris, what do we know about how they may have gotten tools and who may have known about it?

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Chris, some really fascinating details. Right now we're at a command post about five miles from the Clinton Correctional Facility. We've seen a large contingent of law enforcement arrive in the past 20 minutes. Again, law enforcement looking into the possibility that these prisoners may have gotten tool into their cells through frozen hamburger meat. Because they were in the honor block they were allowed to cook for themselves, so it wouldn't have been out of place for them to have food inside their cells. And investigators are looking at whether or not Joyce Mitchell may have convinced the guard to allow that meet inside the prison without going through a metal detector. That is a violation of prison policy.

As Sara mentioned earlier, we know that detectives are checking hotel registries over the past six to eight months in the area of the Clinton Correctional Facility to see if anyone who is close to Richard Matt and David Sweat may have stayed in the area. We also know that Gene Palmer, a corrections officer, was questioned by investigators for about 14 hours over the weekend. He's still on administrative leave, but he has not been charged. His lawyer says he knew nothing about the plan to escape. Alisyn?

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: OK, Boris, thanks so much for all that background.

There's lots of new information to talk about, so let's bring in Terry Turchie. He's a former FBI counterterrorism agent who was involved in capturing the Unabomber and Eric Rudolph who bombed the 1996 Olympics. Terry, thanks so much for being here.

Let's start with this seemingly big break in the case. They found these fugitives' DNA in hunting cabin 25 miles from the prison. So how does that change the search today?

TERRY TURCHIE, FORMER FBI COUNTERTERRORISM AGENT: Well, it changed it drastically, Alisyn. Think about it -- 18 days and they've gone about 25 miles. That's not much more than a little over a mile a day. So these people are reiterating now what the investigators have felt all along, that there's no evidence putting them out of the area. So they're most likely somewhere close by.

They haven't really made a lot of gains over 18 days, and they're breaking into cabins and looking for food and water. And that's the kind of thing we expected they would probably do.

CAMEROTA: Yes. In fact, Terry, you predicted that. You're not giving yourself enough credit. Here on this show you said "I bet these guys are in some kind of summer cabin where the owners in Vermont or New York where the owners just haven't shown up yet to discover them." And lo and behold, that's where the evidence of them has been found. So for investigators what does that mean, they can now narrow their search to just a 25-mile sort of circle around that new hunting cabin?

[08:05:15] TURCHIE: Well, they've done really well in that they've made no major assumptions and they always give themes plenty of flexibility. And they'll do that now. They'll have the grids the way they think they should be. And they'll now understand that probably these people aren't going to get too far here in the next few days based on how far they'll already gotten.

And I think the investigators, the people managing all of this, they have people on the ground, really have a great deal of credibility, and I think that we're close. I think it will probably just take a few days, maybe a few hours, maybe by the time we're finished talking.

But these are the woods. And unfortunately you could also be or we could also be talking about this in another six months. But I don't think so. I think these guys are not survivalists, and I think that we're close.

CAMEROTA: In the past hour, Joyce Mitchell, the prison worker who has been implicated in helping them escape and, in fact, charged, her husband just spoke out. And for the first time he's explaining what he knew about the plot, which was nothing. Basically he says that he was stunned when investigators called he and his wife in to ask them questions. He didn't know that they were connected at all, according to him. He also says -- let me play for you what he says about she explained to her husband the plot to kill him. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LYLE MITCHELL, HUSBAND OF JOYCE MITCHELL: She told me that Matt wanted her to pick them up. She said I never leave nowhere without Lyle, never. He said, I'll give you some pills to give him to knock him out and you come pick us up. She said I am not doing that. She said I love my husband. I am not hurting him. She said then I knew I was in over my head. She said I can't do that. And then she told me he started threatening here with somebody inside the facilities that's going to do something to me to harm me or kill me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: So that's interesting. So Terry, just out of curiosity, I mean, how much stock do investigators put into the husband of an accomplice when clearly the only story he knows is what she's told him. She may have been lying to him to save face with her husband. So how do investigators figure out what he's saying and if it's the truth?

TURCHIE: Well, it's like we discussed before, they take any information they can get their hands on and then they kind of look at it in the context of the overall investigation. From day one the escape was an important aspect of this. And at once it's kind of indicative of all this human drama that's always connected to things like this. On the other hand, it's almost heartbreaking. I mean, all he had to do was really say something and all of this could have been prevents. Hopefully we'll get through this and no one else will be hurt.

But you think about the things that could happen and what he failed to do and what they failed to do by speaking up before these guys got out, and it just really breaks your heart. I mean, there are people out there today risking their lives in a very vulnerable situation, going cabin to cabin and door to door trying to find these very dangerous men. So I just hope it turns out that we don't have to look back and this is even more tragic than it is right now.

CAMEROTA: And I want to be clear. The implication is that he didn't know anything until they broke out. She knew about the plan, but he didn't know. What he's explaining is what she told him after the fact after they had already left.

But meanwhile, Terry, all the new information this morning about the evidence they left behind at this hunting cabin, does that suggest that they never really had a plan?

TURCHIE: It suggests exactly that. They had one plan. It didn't work. And then they decided plan two is to head deep into the woods. Notice they didn't head to a town or city. They just got out of there. And now I think that they're going to get tired. They're going to be stressed. They're going to be wet. And as we talked about, they're not survivalists. I think that their time is running out. And let's face it, the woods up there in that part of the country are very, very unforgiving. You don't know out at night and take a step off the trail or you may drop 100 feet. And you don't drink water from the creek if you don't want to start getting sick from giardia or something. So they're in a bad way right now. And I think the odds are that they're going to be found sooner rather than later.

CAMEROTA: Let's hope your predictions again prove out and prove to be true. Terry Turchie, thanks so much for being on NEW DAY.

TURCHIE: Thank you, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, tune in tonight at 9:00 p.m. for CNN's special report "The Great Prison Escape" which retraces these fugitives' steps. Over to Michaela.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Alisyn, we turn to South Carolina now. After that horrifying massacre inside the Charleston church, the cries are growing louder now for the Confederate flag to come down in South Carolina. Governor Nikki Haley and Senator Lindsey Graham both calling it a symbol of hatred and racism.

[08:10:04] CNN's Ana Cabrera is live from South Carolina with the latest on this conversation and debate.

ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. Good morning to you, Michaela. It seems that we've reached a tipping point in this controversy over the Confederate flag. And in just a few hours we're expecting a large gathering here at the state capital with protesters calling on these lawmakers to take down the flag. Those lawmakers are returning here today to deal with the budget, but we know the flag is going to be on their mind. And ultimately it's up to them to decide whether to remove it or not.

And it all comes amid increasing pressure, national, state, even business leaders joining this call to remove the flag. We saw Walmart and Sears come out after the governor's announcement saying they're going to remove all of their Confederate merchandise from their store shelves as a sign of solidarity with the state of South Carolina.

And Governor Nikki Haley is one of those who used to support the flag's presence here on the front lawn of the state capital alongside the Confederate war memorial, saying it represents the state's heritage and tradition. But at this press conference yesterday she was alongside several bipartisan lawmakers and said now in light of the church massacre she realizes that the flag is a symbol that divides rather than unites, and so it's time for it to go.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. NIKKI HALEY, (R) SOUTH CAROLINA: The flag will always be a part of the soil of South Carolina, but this is a moment in which we could say that that flag, while an integral part of our past, does not represent the future of our great state.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: And again, a huge group there joining her, showing their united front, including Senator Lindsey Graham, who of course is a 2016 presidential candidate. And he issued a statement as well after this announcement, saying, quote, "I hope that by removing the flag we can take another step towards healing and recognition and a sign that South Carolina is moving forward."

So how is the state going to move forward? That is, again, up to state legislatures. And as a result they will be taking up this issue in the next few weeks. But it's not a done deal yet. At this point it does seem like there is an increased momentum, however, to bring the flag down. We'll continue to follow all the developments for you. Chris?

CUOMO: And that momentum going beyond South Carolina. There are about seven flags that have some type of Confederate flag influence in them. And the most obvious would be Mississippi. And sure enough there, the House speaker, Philip Gunn, says the Confederate emblem on the flag needs to be removed. This is the first time an elected Republican in the state has publicly called for the flag to change. The symbol has been on the state flag since 1894. A referendum to remove it failed in 2001.

CAMEROTA: Devastation in Illinois this morning, a series of storms including powerful tornados ripping across the state. This is a video of Coal City. That's where a twister touched down overnight flattening neighborhoods. Rescue crews trying to find victims who may still be trapped. And in Sublette, Illinois, west of Chicago, emergency officials called damage to a major campground there catastrophic.

PEREIRA: Secretary of Defense Ash Carter announcing that the United States is increasing combat equipment into central and eastern Europe. He says America will ramp up the number of tanks, infantry fighting vehicles, and artillery in response to Russian aggression. Carter also announcing a new American initiative to bolster NATO's cyber defense center to protect against hack attacks.

CUOMO: Working out with kettle bells is on the rise. But no one tells you to swing them at a coach. Sean "Diddy" Combs is out on bail this morning after allegedly swinging at a UCLA coach with a kettle bell. No word what started it, but Diddy's son does play for the team. Faced with a charge of assault with a deadly weapon, no one was seriously hurt.

CAMEROTA: I guess you could use anything as a weapon.

PEREIRA: Parents and their kids and sports, sometimes a lot of emotion there.

CUOMO: I think he's got a history of emotion that has nothing to do with his kid. We'll have to see what happens here. Will it be celebrity justice? The key may be no serious injuries. In order to sustain the charge, usually you need injuries.

CAMEROTA: All right, meanwhile, South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley is not alone in calls to remove the Confederate flag. A prominent Mississippi Republican following her lead, we will speak with him.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[08:17:59] HALEY: But this is a moment in which we could say that that flag, while an integral part of our past, does not represent the future of our great state.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: That is South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley, calling for the Confederate flag flying over -- not over, but at the state capitol -- to come down.

Meanwhile, there's a similar battle now brewing in Mississippi, where the Confederate flag is actually part of the state flag. What should happen with that?

Well, State Senator Kenneth Wayne Jones is chairman of Mississippi's legislative black caucus and he supports removing the Confederate symbol from the flag.

It's very good to have you with us, Senator Jones.

Let me give you some of the things that have been offers up as to why the flag is a good thing and should stay. And you please offer up your perspective as well. The first would be -- well, it's a symbol of our shared heritage and people understand that it is not a perfect symbol of what we're supposed to be about, but it's our history and we've accepted it.

KENNETH WAYNE JONES (D), MISSISSIPPI STATE SENATE: I do understand the historical aspect of the flag. But also, as an African American, I understand the racist implications and the bi bigotry that goes along with the symbol on the flag.

South Carolina is taking a bold step, because they get it now. They realize how offensive it is, plus, they also realize that most of the thing done now based on race or hate crimes, as we say, you see symbols like this. And no longer can we afford to have everybody in a state represented by these symbols.

CUOMO: But, Senator, is this just a knee-jerk reaction to what happened in the South Carolina church, as terrible as it is, and not thoughtful policy by way of reflection. You had your own referendum in 2001. Blacks, whites had a chance to vote, and it passed 65-35 basically, showing the people of Mississippi have spoken.

Do you accept that result?

[08:20:01] JONES: Well, we did accept the result. But it's always been in the background that we were going to bring it back up for discussion. Reason being, primarily is because the conversation that we had in 2001 was based on how offensive the flag was and also about the heritage on the justification side.

But now, the conversation is, being a progressive state just like other states, is this how we want our state to continue to be defined based on what we're doing? So, no, it's not. And we're going to follow South Carolina's lead to start the dialogue on what we want to do in the future.

CUOMO: What do you make of the notion that there are some African- Americans who are OK with what happened with slavery and they're OK with the flag by extension, because not all African-Americans are of one mind and they have different thoughts about different things including slavery? Do you accept that or do you think that's ridiculous?

JONES: My question would be, what part of that Confederate flag besides you taking slavery as something that you use as economics represent African-Americans? Nothing represents African Americans in that flag and that confederacy, but the fact that the states didn't hide the fact that, from an economic development standpoint, they were going to keep on people of color to do the work to make the money.

So, no. I think that's ridiculous and I'm going to stay with that.

CUOMO: OK. And the hope is that in changing the flag, this is just a step. It's not an end in and of itself, right? It doesn't mean that Mississippi has arrived at where it wants to be in terms of issues of equality.

JONES: No, not by any means. What this means is simply if you are a flag sympathizer, then you can continue to sympathize with the flag. That's not what we're saying.

What we're saying is that in this day and time, in light of horrific events that has the dialogue going, it's time for us to sit down, progressive individuals, Republicans, Democrats, black, white, and say, OK, let's get a nag that represents the state as a whole where we all can be proud of our state and not just have a one-sided thing that stands for so much dark history in Mississippi.

CUOMO: And hopefully, it comes into play to the extent that this is a partisan dispute. I'm not sure why it would be. A lot of Democrats instituted these flags and now, you have a lot of Republicans in the same places maybe they'll be responsible for changing it, in that way, even those partisan advantage.

But, Senator, we look forward to what happens with the proposal and the process. We'll stay on this story. I promise (ph).

JONES: Thank you so much.

CUOMO: All right. Best to you.

Now, what would you like to do to help the victims of the Charleston massacre? There is need down there. And go to CNN.com/impact.

Mick?

PEREIRA: All right, Chris.

You'll recall a murder mystery that has captivated the nation, the murder of a wealthy Washington, D.C. family. We have a development in a new CNN special report. Did the suspect in custody have help?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:27:29] PEREIRA: All right. Here we go with the five things you need to know for your NEW DAY.

At number one, DNA from the two escaped convicts in New York located in a cabin only 25 miles from the maximum security prison they escaped from. The search for Richard Mat and David Sweat now entering its 18th day.

South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley and Senator Lindsey Graham calling for the Confederate flag to be removed from the capital. The South Carolina legislator however must vote to take it down.

The data hack affecting millions of federal employees maybe four times larger than previously thought. Eighteen million current, former and even perspective federal employees may have been hit by the cyber breach at the Office of Personnel Management.

President Obama's fast track trade deal may make a come back. The trade deal facing a key Senate vote today. It's too soon to say if enough Democrats are on board for it to pass.

And the U.S. women's soccer team has advanced to the quarter finals in the World Cup, beating Colombia 2-0. The U.S. team will face China in Ottawa Friday.

For more on the five things to know, be sure to visit NewDayCNN.com for the latest.

Chris?

CUOMO: Thank you, Mick.

The Washington, D.C. mansion murders are not solved. In fact, there's new information about a relative of the suspect and that person's possible role. That's just one revelation in a CNN special report airing tonight.

Here is CNN's Pamela Brown with more.

Hey, Pam.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Chris. So, this is the Savopoulos family, a model family that lived here in Washington, D.C. They were found brutally murdered more than a month ago, tortured in unspeakable ways.

And following that, a big break in the case came from a piece of pizza crust, DNA from that pizza crust and an intense 48-hour manhunt ensued for the suspect Darron Wint.

We spoke to a U.S. Marshal who was spearheading that effort to find Darron Wint. And he talked to us about how it was really a race against time because they feared that he was going to flee the country. He was here in the U.S. on a green card. We learned his green card was in jeopardy.

So, U.S. Marshals believed that he was going to flee back to where he was born -- Guyana. So, here's what he had to say about that intense manhunt.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): Fernandez and a small fleet of law enforcement officials chased two vehicles -- the white Chevy Cruze Wint is riding in, along with a truck of unknown associates.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I could see the truck and the car, and so we pulled in right behind.

BROWN: After the suspect's vehicles pull a bizarre U-turn, Fernandez radios for helicopter back up and makes his move.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I decided that we just had to take the cars down.

BROWN (on camera): And it was right here, right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's right. Command was given, go, go, go.