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Report: Victim Did Not Work at Targeted Factory; Nine Killed in Sightseeing Plane Crash; More Details Emerge about Church Massacre Shooter's Plans; President Obama to Eulogize Pastor Pinckney; Prison Guard Admits Providing Tools to Fugitives. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired June 26, 2015 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:00:07] JOHN BERMAN, CNN: There was also a gruesome detail here. The one victim we know of, so far, decapitated. His head posted on the fence outside this factory.

DAVEED GARTENSTEIN-ROSS, FOUNDATION FOR THE DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACIES: Absolutely gruesome. And one thing this points to and you're looking at what might be the organization that inspired this, is that it tilts the balance in favor of this likely being inspired or attached to, in some way, the Islamic State.

If you look at the two major organizations that have been inspirational in terrorist attacks in France, the Islamic State and al Qaeda for jihadist terrorism. And the Islamic State is much more overtly brutal. The beheadings are somewhat of a signature for the organization. And to them, this is a sign of strength.

Whereas Al Qaeda, while also brutal, tends to be a bit more reasonable, at least for its target audience. They want to contrast themselves to the Islamic State's overt brutality and come across as the more reasonable jihadist organization. Again, relative to their particular audience of sympathizers.

BERMAN: And Charlie, this appears to be a multilayered attack. Because this victim, who doesn't seem to be connected to the factory was beheaded outside the factory, and then the two suspects tried to drive a car with explosives into the factory, presumably, said the president of France, to set off a large explosion. What do you make of the multilayered attack here?

CHARLIE WINTER, QUILLIAM FOUNDATION: Well, I think you're absolutely right. It's being multilayered is evident of the fact that the attackers wanted to maximize publicity. So having a beheaded individual with Arab scrawled all over the head, I mean, of course that's going to capture the media's attention.

And it does seem that they're trying to create a much larger explosion than the small ones that went off. So I mean, it's very clear to me that, clearly, this is an attack for publicity more than anything else.

BERMAN: We keep saying there were two suspects inside that car, Daveed. It's a little bit murky right now. The French president, Francois Hollande, said that there is a suspect in custody and has been identified. And he indicates that there may have been a second person involved. Unclear whether that person was killed or could still be on the loose right now.

Let's focus on what we know on. The suspect, Daveed, in custody and identified. That is a new development since we last spoke.

GARTENSTEIN-ROSS: Absolutely. And the fact that he's been identified as an attacker is significant. Often in cases such as this, you have someone who's picked up but who's more peripheral to the plot, rather than someone who is really serving as the tip of the spear.

The other thing is, as I've mentioned basically every time you have a major terrorist incident, you have a flood of information. A lot of it proves not to be accurate. Facts will get adjusted over time. So I mean, we have the sketch of what has occurred. But I expect some of these details will shift a bit as we learn more information.

BERMAN: No, and to be clear, we're relaying what we are being told by French authorities, in some cases the president of France, who seems to be a somewhat reliable source, at least on what they know about the investigation right now.

Charlie, what can you tell me about this area of France, the southeastern part of the country near Lyon, a remote-ish area outside an industrial city. We were in Paris after the "Charlie Hebdo" attack. Are there possible terrorist recruits all over that country?

WINTER: Well, I think we need to be careful in terms of what words we use in dealing with this kind of thing. I mean, there has been a lot of agitation through propaganda that it's been seeking to mobilize jihadists in France, of course.

But in terms of whether there are recruits all over the country, I think that that would be probably a stretch of the reality.

Now, in terms of the target itself, it was -- it is interesting that it was a factory that was targeted. There have been a number of studies of terrorist attacks in Europe and, actually, commercial installations like this one are usually quite low on the ballistic targets.

I mean, an attack in Paris is sure to be very, very high-profile and maximize casualties. It seems that this was perhaps a target of -- well, an easy target. I mean, of course it wasn't easy, but something which is more vulnerable to attack than something like the "Charlie Hebdo" office in Paris. And that could simply be a reflection of the reality of the security situation in France. But it's not so easy to hit towns and cities anymore.

BERMAN: A soft target, per se.

And just to be clear, I wasn't suggesting that there are tens of thousands of possible terrorists running all over France. I was just trying to get a sense of the geographic dispersal of possible activists inside that country. And Daveed, along those lines, I wonder if you can give me a sense right now of the battle against recruits, ISIS and otherwise, in France specifically and also in other countries in Europe, as well.

GARTENSTEIN-ROSS: One of the most interesting developments is that Europol is now standing up a cell which is designed to basically take ISIS recruiters, ISIS supporters, and get them off of social media.

[07:05:05] This is very interesting, because one reason that ISIS has been so -- so good at mobilizing people to its cause is because of its mastery of social media. Terrorism in general has been a group affair. Because to get somebody to carry out something extreme like a terrorist attack where they could lose their life, they might -- the odds are that they'll lose their freedom, it generally takes group dynamics to reinforce their extremism and to spur them onto action and to not allow group members to back out. Social media, increasingly, has been playing the role of this group.

Now, one big change over the course of 2015 has been that Twitter has been much more aggressive at kicking people off of Twitter. I think one reason -- and when I say kicking people off, I mean people who are associated with ISIS, associated with jihadist activities.

Facebook has the same set of policies. It will also remove profiles of people who are terrorist supporters. But they have to be reported by other community members first. They don't police it themselves.

So the Europol cell being set up, which that's the European police organization, would be specifically designed to go after these kind of profiles, to stop this mobilization technique that ISIS has been so effective at.

You have other -- a lot of other kind of measures that are being done by France on the both community engagement and also de-radicalization front that have been implemented, both before and also in the wake of the "Charlie Hebdo" attack. But I think looking to social media makes a lot of sense, given how useful that tool has been for mobilization.

BERMAN: Just reminding people, we're seeing right now, we did have some pictures moments ago of this factory in southeastern France. Suspects apparently tried to drive a car with explosives through the gate of a chemical factory, a compressed air plant, to set off a larger explosion.

French President Francois Hollande calls this a terrorist attack. And the most gruesome detail, there was a victim outside the factory, someone who was decapitated, beheaded. And his head, somehow posted on a fence outside this factory with a note in Arabic writing. We're going to have much more on these developments throughout the morning.

Daveed Gartenstein-Ross, thanks so much.

Charlie Winter, appreciate you being with us.

PEREIRA: Other breaking news that we are following today. A deadly sightseeing plane crash in Alaska. The small plane a floatplane slamming into a cliff. Eight of those victims were cruise passengers on an excursion during their voyage. CNN's Miguel Marquez is here with the details. This is just a horrifying thought.

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So terribly sad. This cruise ship left Seattle on Saturday. Then some of the people wanted to take a flight and see a little bit of the beautiful area east of the Ketchikan, the fjords and lakes by air.

Now an NTSB team is on the way, and searchers are trying to get to the crash site.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARQUEZ (voice-over): Overnight, horrible tragedy. A sightseeing plane smashes into a cliff in the Misty Fjords National Monument south of Juneau, killing all nine people on board, including the pilot.

The sea plane, operated by Promech Air, was found against a granite rock cliff face in steep mountainous terrain 800 feet above a lake. The eight passengers on board, guests of the M.S. Westerdam, a Holland America Cruise Line ship. The vessel left Seattle on Saturday for a seven-day round trip cruise. The flight was a shore excursion sold through the company.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everyone on board is just pretty sad right now. We never like to hear news like that.

MARQUEZ: The names of the victims withheld for now, until their family members are notified. This FAA image captured around the time of the crash highlights the cloudy conditions.

MARQUEZ: That same stormy weather now preventing the immediate recovery of the bodies in the rugged terrain.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of ground to cover at this point right now. The investigative team definitely has its job cut out for them.

MARQUEZ: Officials looking to resume the efforts today.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MARQUEZ: Now Promech has a long history in this area. About 30 years they say they've been flying. A pretty good record, as well, in terms of safety. There was an incident back in 2005 where a similar plane, the De Havilland HD-3 caught fire. It landed safely. They did say that maintenance was one of the issues with that crash.

PEREIRA: Not the kind of thing you think about when you're going on a vacation, a little Alaskan cruise. So many people do it. All terribly sad. Thanks so much for those details. We'll continue to watch that.

In the meantime, we want to turn now to South Carolina to Charleston, where Alisyn is. A big preparation today for a funeral.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely, Michaela. So I am here in Charleston, where the city is preparing for the funeral of Clementa Pinckney. He, of course, the beloved pastor of the Mother Emanuel Church that you see behind me, strewn with flowers. He was one of nine people killed last week in the massacre here.

And there are new details this morning about the gunman and what he was planning. We want to bring in CNNs Victor Blackwell. He joins us with those developments. What have we learned?

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We've learned that there are indicators that Dylann Roof wanted a more powerful gun, more powerful than the one he used here last week.

We now have a police report dated March 13 from Columbia, South Carolina, police in which an off-duty police officer who'd actually busted Roof on drug possession charges weeks prior, spotted Roof sitting in a car in a park. He was wearing all black. He was alone. This officer was off-duty, so he called in another officer, who then questioned Roof.

[07:10:21] Roof apparently then had, in the back of a vehicle, part of an AR-15 and six 40-round magazines. If you'd been following the news, you know an AR-15, this has been used in mass shootings several times. It's more powerful, more accurate on long range.

And when questioned, Roof said that he wanted to buy an AR-15, but he didn't have enough money. He wanted to take it to a shooting range. Now Roof was released that day.

But Alisyn, when you consider the damage that was done, the attack here killing nine people using a .45 caliber Glock handgun. And we know about this AR-15. I think it was best said to a reporter by a former U.S. attorney that we ought to be thankful that Roof did not get his hands on that AR-15.

CAMEROTA: It just -- it makes you actually physically sick to think about the possibilities if he had. Victor, thank you so much.

All right. So it's an active scene here. I think you can probably see behind Victor and me, people of the church are already gathering here, though we're still four hours away from Pastor Pinckney's funeral. Many have told us they did not want to risk not getting a seat. They know that seating will be limited, and they wanted to be here.

Last night we came here, also, and it was a very emotional scene outside. It was Pastor Pinckney's viewing. There were hundreds of people in line. It stretched all the way around the church and around the block. And there was this men's church group, and they were singing outside a gospel hymn which lent an uplifting mood. Perhaps we can play you just a few moments of their voices. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(SINGING)

(END VIDEO CLIP) CAMEROTA: Somehow those words, you know, just those words, that they're "on the battlefield for their Lord," showing that their faith is still strong, and they're fighting through this.

We met one family in line here who had driven 12 hours from Mississippi. And they felt called to be here, even though they didn't know the pastor. They didn't know people at this church. But they felt that they wanted to come, and the mom told us that she wanted her sons -- they were about probably 20 years old, maybe even younger -- to experience this moment and to be a part of this moment in history for what they could learn here.

So at this hour, this very tight-knit community is preparing for President Obama and the first lady. Also Vice President Biden and Speaker John Boehner will be leading a congressional delegation. They will all be arriving here within a matter of hours. So we expect another emotional morning here, and we will bring you all of those developments as we get them.

Let's go back to New York with John and Michaela.

PEREIRA: Alisyn, we so appreciate you helping us feel what you're feeling there on the ground. This is a powerful, this is an emotional day. We know there's so much connection between all of the people of Charleston on this very special and important day.

We're going to give you some other headlines right now.

The second prison worker charged in connection with escape of those two escaped convicts in New York state admitted in a statement that he provided tools and other items that unintentionally made their escape easier. This, as state inspectors take a closer look at the security protocols at that prison.

Boris Sanchez is live in Owls Head, New York, with the latest. There was clearly a series of security lapses happening there.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That is right. Good morning, Michaela.

About a dozen state inspectors are at the Clinton Correctional Facility reviewing protocols and policies that may have made it easier for these men to escape.

Investigators are looking at a series of allegations by Gene Palmer. He says he made deals with these inmates, receiving paintings and information from them in exchange for a number of things -- paint, paint brushes, information that the inmates wanted, including the movement of other inmates, as well as hamburger meat. That hamburger meat that we have been talking about. And access to the electrical boxes in that catwalk behind their cells.

Sources telling CNN those kind of exchanges between guards and inmates were common at the prison.

One more note: while Gene Palmer has not spoken out publicly since these men escaped, he did a public radio interview in 2000, where he talks about the psychological ramifications of working at the prison. Listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GENE PALMER, PRISON GUARD: With the money that they pay you, you'll go bald; you'll have high blood pressure; you'll become an alcoholic; you'll divorce and then kill yourself. It's a negative environment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Palmer spent 27 years working as a prison guard. In that same interview, he says the experience hardened him. He is now in the process of obtaining a new attorney, and he is due back in court on Monday -- John.

BERMAN: All right, Boris. Thanks so much.

President Obama this morning no doubt still glowing after a big victory at the Supreme Court. The justices upheld a key provision of the Affordable Care Act, ruling that healthcare subsidies for low and middle-income Americans are valid, even in states that don't have their insurance exchanges.

[07:15:14] Republican opponents say they will keep trying to get Obamacare appealed.

Today, another decision day at the Supreme Court with four major cases, including whether gay marriage is a constitutional right still on the docket.

PEREIRA: Secretary of State Kerry heading to Vienna this morning. He will join negotiations with Iranian leaders ahead of Tuesday's deadline to reach a nuclear deal. However, the State Department says, even if sanctions are lifted as part of a nuclear deal, sanctions related to human rights abuses, those will remain in place. This after a new report slammed Tehran for cool -- cruel, rather, and inhuman treatment of its citizens.

BERMAN: Cameras were rolling as famed magician Chris Angel jumped to rescue an escape artist who was trapped inside a water-filled box above the stage. Do not try this at home. Happened earlier this week during rehearsals for Angel's "Supernaturalist" show, which opens tonight. Thankfully, Spencer Horsman is alive and OK this morning. It is unclear if he will join Angel onstage during tonight's show.

PEREIRA: Oh, my goodness. This illusionist was on "America's Got Talent." Incredible.

BERMAN: He's got talent, and he got lucky.

PEREIRA: Wow. My goodness. How frightening.

All right. We're following breaking news on the terror attack in France. President Obama, we understand, has now been briefed. We'll

have more on that coming up. But first, let's head to Alisyn in South Carolina.

CAMEROTA: OK, Michaela. You know, the South Carolina church massacre right here at the church you see behind me, it's spurring a lot of soul searching on race relations in the United States. Will this lead to actual change? We'll explore that, coming up.

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CAMEROTA: A few hours from now, President Obama will deliver the eulogy here for Pastor Clementa Pinckney, one of the nine victims gunned down at this historic black church behind me.

Now, the vicious attack may be classified as a hate crime by the Department of Justice. But some say that's not enough. What happens after this funeral? What happens next?

We want to talk about that with our CNN political commentator, Van Jones, as well as John Tecklenburg. He's the former director of the Department of Economic Development here in Charleston.

Great to see both of you this morning. Thanks so much for being here.

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning.

CAMEROTA: Before we talk about what's next, let's talk about the eulogy. What do you want to hear, Van, from the president?

JONES: Well, you know, the president's got an opportunity to really try to bring the country together. I think people don't understand the emotional roller coaster this community is on. People talk about their forgiveness. That's the outcome of a process. The process is deep grieving, a lot of anger, a lot of pain. People come out with the forgiveness, but the president needs to help people get through how much pain, how much hurting is going on and why we have to deal with the racial injustice as well as poverty.

CAMEROTA: John, you're in a perfect position to do that. I should mention you're running for mayor.

JOHN TECKLENBURG, FORMER DIRECTOR, DEPARTMENT OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IN CHARLESTON: I am. Thank you.

CAMEROTA: And so it feels to me, as an outsider, as though we've reached a tipping point here. There's a real grief, but there's also real energy that something has to happen positive out of this. But there's a lot of work to be done here in South Carolina as well as Charleston. Where do you start?

TECKLENBURG: That's right. There's a lot of work to be done. And we do mourn this incredible loss, but there's a lot of hope and joy that we can make Charleston and South Carolina even a better place and be a model to the world, not only in the way we've come together in unity, in hope and love in the last week, but in the way we deal with solving disparities going forward. Disparities in education and economic opportunity. And we're going to work on those problems here in Charleston and South Carolina.

CAMEROTA: Let me put up some illustrations of that disparity, what you are trying to tackle.

In South Carolina, the poverty rate -- this is -- these are the latest numbers from 2013 -- for whites, 13 percent; for blacks, almost 30 percent. The South Carolina per capita income: white, 28,000, basically; for black, 15,300. The South Carolina unemployment rate: white 5.3 percent; for black, almost 10 percent.

So Van, there -- there are issues here beyond the Confederate flag, though, that's gotten so much attention.

JONES: It has gotten a lot of attention, I think understandably so. I think a couple things about that.

First of all, I think people have to understand, the whole region, not just South Carolina but the South overall is still economically lagging. It's been lagging for a long time.

Segregation, you have to have two of everything: two schools, two neighborhoods, two -- and when you divide a little bit by two, you get less for everybody. So you're still recovering from that legacy of segregation. You also don't have the kind of technology power, centers of a technology sector, a financial sector. So you've got still a big agricultural service sector.

A lot is holding the whole region back, and then you have the added overlay of the long-term, still present with us, racial pain of this region. And you put those things together, it requires leadership. This could bring us together. It's going to require that level of coming together to solve that many problems.

CAMEROTA: John, you know, obviously, I don't have to tell you. Charleston is a gem. I mean, it's a gem of a city, and it's really sort of the beacon in South Carolina. What has gone right here?

TECKLENBURG: Well, we have great elements for economic infrastructure here, including our poor. But mostly, our people are incredible people.

And we are doing well in Charleston with high-technology and knowledge-based businesses and attracting industry again, including Boeing and Volvo is coming here. So our economic future is really bright for the Charleston area. We want to see the whole state enjoy that future.

But we have to address these disparities. I believe it really comes first to our education system. And there's really been a disparity in learning and in funding in this state, and our state legislature really needs to deal with that.

CAMEROTA: As mayor, could you do anything about that?

TECKLENBURG: Well, we could. There's a lot of leadership that needs to be done locally to focus on those schools -- and we have some here in the city of Charleston -- that have learning disparity both on income and race parameters. And we need to focus on those schools and make them better.

CAMEROTA: Pastor Pinckney really walked the walk. I mean, everything -- feel as though I know him, though I never met him. But because I've been here for the better part of a week.

He was from a different cloth. He was -- everyone talks about him, and it's not exaggeration. Everything that you hear him having said. And there was this men's group, who were singing out here last night outside of his viewing. And they were saying, "We're on the battlefield of the Lord." They were singing this gospel him. And they were a men's group from this church who came together to be role models, they said. And here they are singing. And to support other men and to show them the way. It was really a powerful moment.

JONES: You know, I think part of the thing to keep in mind is so many tragedies happen at one time. You have the desecration of a really holy, sacred site, a church and also one of the most famous churches in the black community.

You had the murder of nine people, which also is the assassination of a political leader. This is an assassination of a political leader. This church was not picked at random. He was not picked at random. I think people don't understand. That's one of the reasons why when people say hate crime, OK, but this is really, for us, an act of terrorism. You're going after a political site; you're going after a political leader; you're trying to intimidate a community.

So when you say hate crime, that's really not enough. You've got to go ahead and say -- call it what it is. This was an act of racial terror against a community that's been suffering from those kinds of acts of violence for too many decades and centuries.

CAMEROTA: John, how do you define the state of race relations here in Charleston? Because what we see here in these long lines are neighbors. Neighbors comforting each other, neighbors sharing bottles of water. But really, it can't be -- it can't be all just "Kumbaya." What's really going on with race here?

TECKLENBURG: Well, South Carolina and Charleston has been steeped in racism for centuries. And it is part of our heritage. And even though the civil rights removed many vestiges of racism, there's still that inherent racism that exists in housing opportunities, economic opportunities and so forth.

Then you say that Reverend Pinckney was an incredible man of God. I knew him. I met him about 20 years ago. And he was the kind of man that lived the word. And he extended that to his congregation.

And even though we've had this tragedy, the most beautiful thing was the families of the victims calling for the assailant's mercy and forgiveness. And that's just the kind of thing that Reverend Pinckney taught his congregation. It's so beautiful. And it's an opportunity for us to not only continue a dialogue, to bridge racial divide, but to come together going forward. CAMEROTA: Yes, you have your work cut out for you, but there is an

opportunity now.

Van, John, thanks so much for being here on "NEW DAY." Pleasure to meet you.

TECKLENBURG: God bless you.

CAMEROTA: Thank you. You, too.

Let's go back to New York and Michaela.

PEREIRA: Wonderful conversation to be had there on this important day in Charleston.

We are following our breaking news, a terror attack at a factory in southeastern France. We know one person is dead. We're going to give you a live report with all the breaking details in just a few moments.

BERMAN: Also, a big week for President Obama. Perhaps more done in the last few days to shape his legacy than any week in recent memory. And today will be another big part of it. An emotional eulogy for a fallen pastor in Charleston, South Carolina. John King has that and more "Inside Politics."

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