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New Details on New York Prison Inmates' Escape Plan Emerge; NBC Cuts Business Ties to Donald Trump after Presidential Candidate's Controversial Remarks on Immigrants; Greece Announces Debt Default. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired June 30, 2015 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: -- your NEW DAY. It is Tuesday, June 30th, 8:00 in the east. Alisyn is off today. We have got Michaela and I. And we have new information for you. David Sweat, the escaped convict, is coming clean to investigators, revealing details of the escape plan and three weeks on the run with fellow fugitive Richard Matt, now dead, secrets coming to light on where they planned to go and why they had to improvise.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: And all of this, Chris, comes as the FBI launches an investigation into possible drug trafficking inside the prison that Sweat and Matt broke out of. CNN's Sara Ganim is live at the hospital in Albany where Sweat is now recovering. Sara?

SARA GANIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Michaela. You know, for three weeks while these guys were on the run, authorities really wondered, did they really plan to run off with that prison seamstress, Joyce Mitchell? Was she part of their plan? Now that David Sweat has been captured and he's alive and he's talking to authorities, we're learning that, yes, she really was their plan A. They planned to run off with her to Mexico. But when she got cold feet and didn't show up that night that they escaped, they were forced to improvise.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GANIM: Investigators hoping convicted killer David Sweat continues to talk this morning. The former fugitive's condition now improving after being shot twice in the torso Sunday.

ANDREW WYLIE, CLINTON COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: He's going to be brought back to the department of corrections when he's cleared medically.

GANIM: Police wanting answers to exactly how Sweat and Richard Matt planned and executed their escape from the maximum security prison, 35-year-old Sweat already confessing that he and Matt initially planned on running away to Mexico with former prison worker Joyce Mitchell.

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO, (D) NEW YORK: They would kill Mitchell's husband and then get in the car and drive to Mexico. GANIM: When Mitchell didn't show up, the duo headed to Canada

instead. But 18 days after their escape the men separated, Sweat telling investigators 49-year-old Matt was slowing him down. A source telling CNN there's evidence Matt was sick, possibly from contaminated food or water. An examination of his body found blisters of his feet and minor cuts.

SHERIFF KEVIN MULVERHILL, FRANKLIN COUNTY, NEW YORK: You know, for as intelligent as these guys are breaking out of a maximum security prison, evading police for three weeks, Joyce Mitchell was plan A.

GANIM: Both men were found dressed for the woods. Inside Sweat's bag there were tools, bug spray, maps, and Pop Tarts. Authorities say Matt's body reeked of alcohol. The inmates DNA initially found inside this cabin along with an open bottle of grape gin.

WILLIAM FARRINGTON, FOUND CABIN WHERE INMATES STAYED: There was nice cooking gear. There was barbecue, there was bedside. It looked pretty well equipped for a place that far out in the woods.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GANIM: Now, Sweat remains here in Albany at the medical center in critical condition. He is under heavy security and is expected to be here for a few more days. The Clinton County district attorney saying he does plan to charge Sweat with escape, with burglary, with any other crimes he may have committed on the run, also saying that it's likely when he is released from this hospital, goes back to the department of corrections, he will be under 24/7 solitary confinement. Chris?

CUOMO: All right, Sara, thank you very much.

In other big news this morning, breaking overnight, President Obama proposing changes to overtime pay. He says this is going to help 5 million American workers. It comes as a new CNN/ORC poll conducted after a series of wins for the administration finds the obvious, the president's approval rating is up. In fact, it's at a two-year high. So let's get to CNN senior White House correspondent Jim Acosta live in Washington. What is the good word?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Chris, they feel like they had a good week here at the White House last week and they're trying to keep those good times rolling. The White House is setting new overtime rules that will raise the pay of nearly 5 million Americans. President Obama announced the move on the "Huffington Post" last night, saying, we'll bring it up on screen, "In this country, a hard day's work deserves a fair day's pay, and that's at the heart of what it means to be middle class America."

You've heard those talking points before, the president rolling them out again. And here's what it means for you. Under the old overtime rules that extra pay of time and a half stopped at $23,660. That threshold will now be bumped up to people making just over $50,000 a year. And this announcement comes as the president is receiving higher marks for the way he's handling his job. According to our new CNN/ORC poll numbers, the president's approval numbers are on the rise. There you go, approve 50 percent, disapprove, 47 percent. That is his highest number in two years.

And just over the last year you can see the difference. Obviously the public is warming up to the job he is doing. One reason is who you he is handling race relations in America. That was a big issue in this country since the Charleston church massacre and the president's speech down there last Friday. The president is now at 55 percent in that category, up five points from last month when it was 50 percent in May.

People are also generally feeling better about race relations in America under this president, 20 percent say they are better. That's up five points since February.

[08:05:00] But getting back to these overtime rules and the president's handling of the economy, that's another big reason for the upward swing in the CNN/ORC poll. As you can see he's up six points on the economy from last month. Michaela, the president had a big week last week. That is clearly showing up in these approval numbers this morning.

PEREIRA: It certainly is Jim. All right, thank you so much for that from the White House.

Donald Trump out at NBC. The network is cutting ties with the real estate mogul turned candidate after those derogatory remarks he made about Mexican immigrations. And now the Donald is venting his rage. CNN's Athena Jones is live in Chicago with the latest. He's venting it in the form of a potential lawsuit, right?

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning. That's right, Michaela. He says he's suing Univision, maybe now he'll sue NBC for the same reason. But the reality show star and now presidential candidate had already planned to give up his hit show on NBC, "The Apprentice," because he's running. On Monday the network made it official. They are keeping the show without him and using his famous line "You're fired."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Somebody has to come out and tell it like it is.

JONES: In front of a packed house in Chicago Monday, Trump stood by the comments he made about Mexican immigrants during his campaign announcement two years ago.

TRUMP: They're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime. They're rapist. And some, I assume, are good people.

JONES: He cited a report by Fusion, owned by Spanish language channel Univision and ABC. TRUMP: They think it's like Mother Teresa is coming across the

border, OK? This one says 80 percent of Central American women and girls raped crossing into the United States. Well, I said drug dealers, I said killers, and I said rapists.

JONES: Asked if he would apologize, Trump said --

TRUMP: There's no apology because what I said is right. I mean, what I said is 100 percent right.

JONES: On Monday NBC announced it will no longer air the Miss USA or Miss Universe Pageant, partly owned by Trump, following a similar step by Univision which also dumped the event.

TRUMP: I'll be using Univision. Maybe I'll be suing NBC too.

JONES: NBC was facing growing pressure to respond with more than 200,000 people signing onto a petition on Change.org, calling on the company to dump Trump. Amid the controversy, Trump has been surging in the Republican polls up to second place in the first primary state of New Hampshire. He touted the latest CNN/WNUR poll.

TRUMP: There's a CNN poll that just came out. And they have interesting categories. Who's the best on terrorism? That's a pretty important subject. Trump right at the top. Who's the best on handling international trade? Like not even close. Trump is almost double anybody else, right? That's incredible.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JONES: Now it's unclear where if anywhere the Miss USA Pageant will be televised since it's not airing on NBC, and you can imagine those contestants have been preparing for this annual event for months.

Meanwhile, Trump has issued a statement slamming NBC. He said in part "They will stand behind lying Brian Williams but won't stand behind people that tell it like it is, as unpleasant as that may be." So there you have classic Donald Trump, quite defiant, and he sees himself as a truth teller. Chris?

CUOMO: All right, thank you very much, to be continues.

Another big story this morning. Greece is preparing to go into default. They owe money and they are about $1.7 billion short. The finance minister declaring the nation will not be able to pay their interest, the vig that they owe the IMF, today.

We have team coverage starting with CNN business correspondent Richard Quest live in Athens. Richard, the last time I saw you there was someone on the street taking out their anger on you. What is the mood this morning?

RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: The mood continues to be one of quiet, determined resignation. They see the prime minister here as having put the "G" back in "Greece," the dignity they see is back. But they are also suffering from the capital controls. They can't get the money out of the bank. And they know that whatever happens, Chris, and this is crucial, whether they stay in the euro or they leave the euro, that the economic situation is going to get worse in Greece.

And that's the dilemma. That's the conundrum. That's what they have to decide. We understand talks are taking place today between Greece and the European partners. But frankly, as the American saying goes, it's a day late and a dollar short, and no one's expecting a deal by tonight's default.

PEREIRA: I love your use of American realism. Richard, thank you so much.

So of course, what does this all mean for U.S. and global markets? U.S. markets suffered their worst day of the year Monday amid all of this Greek crisis. So should we be worried? Here to break it down we turn to the Romans, Christine Romans. What does it mean for us?

[08:10:04] CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: Hello. A day late and $1.7 billion euros short.

Let's take a look at Greece here. Greece is a small economy, right? It's a little bigger than Alabama and a little smaller than Oregon. So why did it cause this? Why did it cause this yesterday? The market, Michaela, down 350 points for the Dow. It's a small economy with a lot of impact because it has a lot of debt. Greece has too much debt, and paying off that debt is a real problem.

And, look, there are these other countries also in the EU that have a lot of debt as well. They've already at their bailouts, their painful medicine. There's a lot of worry that if Greece gets out, it could mean those other countries will try to get out. Or it could destabilize the EU. And destabilizing Europe is a bad thing because we sell this much stuff to Europe every single year. So that's why that very small, little economy matters so much for the American economy and for the rest of the financial system.

Here's what's happening right now, you guys. These are global markets. London down just a little bit, Paris down just a little bit, and Frankfurt actually up. So you've seen a recovery, really, amid all these rumors that something must be amiss. They must be able to get something resolved. But at least they're talking right now.

Here's what's happening in U.S. markets. Dow futures are up. You could see a little bit of a bounce back this morning. So we're hoping at least that you're not going to see a resumption of the big selling we saw yesterday, guys. But a little economy with a very, very, very big, outsized effect on global markets.

CUOMO: And regardless, the reality of what could happen, all gains of a year wiped in and out a day. Christine Romans, we'll stay on it. Thank you very much.

We also have to tell you this morning that the death toll is rising again in the last hour in that military plane crash in Indonesia, now at least 53 people confirmed lost. This after the jet crashed in the city of Madon. The plane went down shortly after takeoff from Sumatra. Fears are as many as 113 could be dead. The plane made two stops along the way, so right now it's not clear how many people were on board when it crashed, and also the cause is still under investigation.

PEREIRA: The FBI says agents have arrested New Jersey man for plotting to provide material support to ISIS. Investigators claim this young man, 23-year-old Alaa Saadeh planned to join the terrorists in Iraq and in Syria. Just two weeks ago another New Jersey man was arrested on similar charges. This month alone nine people have been arrested across the U.S. on terrorism related charges linked to ISIS.

Quite a stroke of luck for Bob Sabo of Fairfield, Connecticut. So he goes to the local store to buy lottery tickets. One problem -- he didn't wear his glasses. So without his glasses on he accidentally bought a $30 ticket instead of the $20 ticket he intended to buy. When he got home he realized the $30 scratch off was worth $30,000. That is the kind of mistake I can get behind.

(LAUGHTER)

CUOMO: Of course, he has a winning smile. And so is yours, of course.

Back to our top story. The FBI launching a probe into corruption and drug trafficking and a lot of other bad stuff at the Clinton Correctional Facility, citing evidence uncovered during the investigation into the escape of Richard Matt and David Sweat. What's going to happen? How unusual is this? Lucky for you we have someone who knows. Ed Gavin is the former deputy warden for the New York City Department of Corrections. Ed, it's good to have you. Thank you for being here.

ED GAVIN, FORMER DEPUTY WARDEN, NEW YORK CITY DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS: Pleasure.

CUOMO: First of all, what should be our level of -- that this kind of stuff was going on inside the prison?

GAVIN: It happens. It recently happened in New York City. They charged a female correction officer with bringing in cocaine and marijuana to inmates in Manhattan. So this is nothing new?

CUOMO: How does it happen?

GAVIN: People compromise their integrity. They violate their oath of office. It's that simple.

CUOMO: And there's got to be some kind of collective consciousness at play also, right, because they always say everybody knows everything that happens inside the walls. So if I'm selling drugs, even heroin to inmates, do you know if we work together?

GAVIN: Not necessarily. CUOMO: So you may not know. So it's not as much as a huge

conspiracy of all the employees have to be taken down.

GAVIN: No. It's a handful of bad apples. And 95 percent of the officers and supervisors are doing a phenomenal job.

CUOMO: What do you make of the idea that you have to let this stuff go on because it's like a codependency. It's a way of keeping the inmates calm and creating less problems, that's why this stuff happens. That's what you get told sometimes as a whisper. Do you buy it?

GAVIN: Not at all.

CUOMO: Why not?

GAVIN: Because correction officers are officers of the law. Their job is to enhance the safety and security of the institution, not bring in drugs to inmates and make them potentially more violent, maybe make them crazy, causing them to act out. That's not what we're supposed to do.

CUOMO: As we learn these things about what was going on inside this prison, does it make it more clear to you why these two men were able to escape?

GAVIN: Yes. I believe that the facility superintendent wasn't on top of his game. There is a directive in place. It's called directive 4910, the control and search for contraband. In that directive it mandates that correctional staff conduct weekly, at the minimum, weekly inspects of all the cells and all the housing areas.

[08:15:05] And that report is to be submitted weekly to the superintendent. Were those reports submitted? I doubt it.

CUOMO: Because you think that they would have find what's going on.

The one guard who right now they have in custody and they're talking to putting on trial, the hacksaws in the frozen meat, could he have clean hands and just been passed by something, by someone, who knew the employee and it was something that these guys were allowed to have because they cook for themselves in there. Does he necessarily have to have dirty hands?

GAVIN: Not necessarily. But I question his motivations. Why did he allow himself to become so close to these two inmates? And I'm sure that ticked off a lot of the other inmates on the honour block. Because he was probably giving them special privileges that he wasn't necessarily giving to the other inmates. And that's a recipe for disaster.

CUOMO: Now you said the words superintendent. For most of us, when we think of prison, we think of wardens. The system here works a little different, but there is someone in charge at the end of the day, right? GAVIN: Well, in the New York State Department of Corrections,

the superintendent is the warden. In New York City Correction, we have a warden. It's the same thing. It's just a different title.

CUOMO: Is that person in charge of just this facility or do they have regional supervision? Or multiple facilities. How much accountability is there here?

GAVIN: Well, the superintendent is in charge of the Clinton Correctional Facility. And he reports directly to central office, to the deputy, you know, commissioner for security.

CUOMO: Where is this person? How come we're not hearing from them about what's going on in the prison?

GAVIN: Your guess is as good as mine.

CUOMO: But that's who's got to have the answers, right? Because, you know, they just go to the guards, well, they're not overseeing themselves. And it's just to say, well, let's go to the state. Well, they're not really running the prison. It's about the superintendent, right? Doesn't the accountability lie there at the end of the day?

GAVIN: With the superintendent and the deputy superintendent for security. And the tour commanders and the sergeants. You know, it runs downhill. But these people should have been doing their job.

And the thing, the directive, and following that directive that I spoke about earlier, that's correction 101. I mean, if those things were followed, if that directive was followed, even if one correction officer who cycled into the honour block in the last 12 weeks did his or her job, if one of them on the midnight tour, you know, went by the cells and checked for signs of life, to check to see if those inmates were there, this probably would have been foiled. But it's a total breakdown. To me, it's a catastrophe.

CUOMO: Do you think it's going to wind up being the case that there were a number of employees there that helped these guys? Not just the two that we heard about. Or do you think it's going to be more about just the environment of laxity that was in there in terms of how strict it was that enabled these guys to get out and some dumb luck on their part?

GAVIN: Let's talk about the laxity for a minute. Let's go back to 2013. Let's go back to Joyce Mitchell, those allegations of undue familiarity. I want to know who hired Joyce Mitchell. Was she hired off the civil service list? Or was she a provisional appointee? Would she have a contract to some other prison employee? And maybe that's why they didn't come down on her when she was involved with the undue familiarity.

I mean, at the very least, when someone -- I want to know, who was the person who made the complaint against Joyce Mitchell? Was it an inmate? Was it a civilian employee? Was it an officer or a sergeant? You know, how come the inspector general didn't deem that allegation credible? At the very at least, what I would have done is I would have transferred both of those inmates to different facilities.

CUOMO: Just to avoid the propriety.

GAVIN: Just to avoid it. Yes.

CUOMO: Ed Gavin, thank you very much for the insight. The more we learn, the more we come to you so you could tell us what it means.

GAVIN: The pleasure is all mine.

Mich?

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right. We want to turn to weather. Thanks so much, Chris.

Thousands have been forced to flee as a massive wildfire burst through Central Washington State. That fire getting dozens of homes now just outside of Seattle. At this point, we're told the flames are 10 percent contained. They are being fuelled by blistering heat and strong winds.

We want to turn to CNN's meteorologist Chad Meyers with a look at the conditions and what they can expect today. Are they going to get any kind of handle on this with weather cooperating?

(WEATHER REPORT)

PEREIRA: OK.

CUOMO: Appreciate it very much. I was thrown because it says Chad --

PEREIRA: I know.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST (voice-over): Overnight more than a thousand residents fleeing their homes as firefighters battle catastrophic wildfires ranging on for a third day in central and eastern Washington state showing no signs of slowing.

STEVE CLIVE, WASHINGTON RESIDENTS: He just opened the door and said get out, get out. There are -- houses on the backside, they're on fire. Just go.

MYERS: More than two dozen homes incinerated.

DARYL FERGUSON, NEIGHBORS SAVE HIS HOME: A lot of friends' houses burn down. And that was hard.

MYERS: Entire neighbourhoods like this one in Wenatchee reduced to chard, rubble and ash.

MEGAN CASTILLO, WASHINGTON RESIDENT: It happened so fast. It doesn't look like there's anything left.

MYERS: Plumes of black smoke visible for miles away after flying embers have a recycling plan on fire.

ANDREW ROCKNE, WASHINGTON RESIDENT: It's devastating. And it's been burning like this for hours.

[08:20:15] MYERS: The sleepy hollow fire swallowing now 4,000 acres.

CARMEN RIGGAN, WASHINGTON RESIDENT: The flames looked evil. It was scary. Scariest scene I have ever seen.

MYERS: Sweltering heat, gusty winds, coupled with little rain, making it that much harder to slow this fire which officials estimate is now only 10 percent contained.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It most likely will pick up in some manner. How strong it goes and how far and fast it goes, it's just unpredictable.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MYERS: And the wind today, guys, is going to be 25 to 30 miles per hour. Just nothing those firefighters can do other than get out of the way at times.

Back to both of you.

CUOMO: It's like a turbo charger.

PEREIRA: It really is. Yes. Dire conditions there.

CUOMO: All right. So we have new poll numbers for you this morning. They show the president's approval on the rise. What's behind the sudden spike? What does it mean going forward? Answers ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: President waking up to some good news from poll results this morning. The president's approval rating hits the 50 percent threshold for the first time in more than two years from the CNN/ORC Poll.

What's behind the spike? Let's put that question to CNN's political commentator Paul Begala. He's also a Democratic strategist and the senior adviser to Pro-Hillary Clinton super PAC. Tara Setmayer. She is also a CNN Political commentator.

So I think we should just ask you both to react. Since the lady is here with us, your reaction to the approval rate of the president at 50 percent?

[08:25:09] TARA SETMAYER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I'm not surprised with that. The president would see a bump after a week of what's been categorized as wins for Obama. There's been headlines. And I think in Politico said --

(CROSSTALK) PEREIRA: Were they wins?

SETMAYER: Yes. Well, it depends on how you look at it. Is it a win for Obama? Is it a win for the country? I mean, people are looking at the SCOTUS decision as a win for the administration. The trade deal was a win for the president, which it was based on the political calculations of what happened there.

And so you're inundated with headlines for a week of the president's wins. You know, people feel like, oh, OK, he's doing a good job. But the real clear politics average, which is an average of seven major polls, Reuters, Wall Street Journal, Rasmussen, Gallup, that has the president's approval of 46.1 and disapproval at 49.9. And that's an average over the last two weeks of seven major polls.

So I think that's a more accurate portrayal of then just one poll, one snap shot in time after a significant week of positive headlines for the president.

PEREIRA: Paul, she's poking holes in our poll. I don't know about that. But what are your thoughts? Give us your take on the approval rating of the president at 50 percent.

PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think Tara makes a very good point about the week, this remarkable and somewhat heartbreaking week as we saw the president eulogizing Senator and Reverend Pinckney in Charleston. And that was enormously moving. And I think the whole country is move by that.

There were also fundamentals, though. And fundamentals, whether it's 46 or 50 are helping the president as well. There's a story on CNNMoney.com about how finally the middle class is getting a pay raise. Middle Class incomes went up 4.3 percent last year, the story said. That's going to drive fundamentals. He may bounce up or down, but he is at 50 percent now. By the way, exactly where Ronald Reagan was at this stage of his presidency. Far above where George W. Bush was. Bush was at 32 at this stage of his presidency.

So this president has some big fundamentals working for him. Middle class income is going up. By the way, health care cost increases, the lowest rate of increase in health care cost that we've had since they've started tracking these things.

This 4th of July weekend, gas prices are comparatively low. So the fundamentals, not just a good week for the president, the fundamentals are good for him, too.

CUOMO: Paul, defend two of the big moves he did. And some are calling it over reach. You say, why it's not.

One, painting the White House in the colors of the rainbow. That was seen by some as owning an advocacy position that maybe the White House should not have done. Number two, the proposal to pay more for overtime. The business community pushing back and saying you shouldn't be setting wages, we should. BEGALA: Yes, well, first, the president took a step. He

evolved. He did not get elected in saying he was for same-sex marriage. But he did evolved, very publicly. And before his re- election, he endorsed same-sex marriage.

He sent America's solicitor general to the Supreme Court to argue that case. So he owns some small piece -- no, some large piece of that victory. And I just thought it was wonderful and inclusive for the White House to be bathed in those rainbow colors. It was very moving and beautiful thing. I'm so glad he did it.

And on overtime, paying overtime money for overtime work has been the law of the land for decade. All this stir as how Cecilia Munoz domestic policy adviser being interviewed by you, refusing to slime into political analysis like I do and staying on the merits of the issue, the policy, which is if you work overtime, you ought to get paid overtime. And they're updating those rules.

Of course special interest lobbyists don't like it. They don't want any minimum wage either. They don't want anything that helps workers. But I think the president is on the right side of working people on this.

PEREIRA: I want to pivot to some new names -- well not new names, but some names that are going to be making announcements in the next little while. One for sure, we know, Chris Christie is set to make an announcement that he is putting his name in. Thoughts on that, first of all, from your point of view.

And in terms of all the controversy that has been around him, how much do you think that's going to get in the way? And how do you think he thinks he can stand out from the rest? That will make it 14.

SETMAYER: Yes, it's amazing the difference a year and a half or so can make. I mean, Chris Christie was a frontrunner not that long ago. And now he's barely -- you know, about a year and a half, but prior to Bridgegate --

CUOMO: Sure.

SETMAYER: He was the front runner in a lot of polls. People thought, oh, Chris Christie, he's great.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: Do you think it's Bridgegate? Or do you think that that's --

SETMAYER: I think Bridgegate was the beginning of the avalanche. And then there were series of things after that. A couple of public spats with folks that didn't go over so well.

CUOMO: You don't think it's built in that he's not right enough for this primary season?

SETMAYER: Not necessarily. I mean, look at Jeb Bush. Jeb bush is pretty moderate on a lot of things. There are other people in this race that you would consider. John Kasich is, you know, some people would consider moderate. And he's the governor of Ohio.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: You think he could be the strongest in the field, by the way?

SETMAYER: Who?

CUOMO: Kasich.

SETMAYER: I think Kasich is a serious contender. I think his problem is name ID, but if people start to hear him and get to know him. You know, people talked about Donald Trump being straight talk. John Kasich is a very straight talk kind of a guy. And he talks in colloquial language. People understand what he's saying. He's not a policy wonk. I think people will be interested to hear what Kasich has to say. I think he'll be competitive.