Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

S.C. Lawmakers Vote to Take Down Confederate Flag; Trump Defends, Expands Immigration Comments; What Impact Will Trading Halt Have on Market?; Baltimore Mayor Fire Police Chief. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired July 09, 2015 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: A new day for South Carolina.

[05:58:21] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is my sincere desire that this bill does not pass.

BERMAN: The final vote.

REP. JENNY HORNE (R), SOUTH CAROLINA STATE REPRESENTATIVE: Take a symbol of hate off these grounds on Friday.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Trading came to a stop on the New York Stock Exchange.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The selloff in China and a bailout bid from Greece.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The music just stopped. It just stopped.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Panic for investors around the world.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: People love me. And you know what? I've been very successful. Everybody loves me.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: There's actually no correlation between illegal immigration and crime.

TRUMP: Anderson, you're not a baby. You're not a baby.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: First thing we can agree with Donald Trump: Anderson Cooper is no baby. That goes beyond any kind of partisan attack.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: There you go.

CUOMO: Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Thursday, July 9, 6 a.m. in the East. And we do begin with breaking news.

The Confederate flag is coming down in South Carolina. Lawmakers approving a bill to remove a symbol that went up 50 years ago as an act of defiance against the civil rights movement, is now coming back and going down in the name of tolerance.

CAMEROTA: It took 13 hours of debate, including an emotional and tearful plea by one lawmaker. The decision marks a stunning reversal in that state, three weeks after nine people were killed at that African-American church in Charleston.

CNN's Nick Valencia is live for us in Columbia, South Carolina, with all of the breaking details.

Good morning, Nick.

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alice -- Alisyn.

It is truly an historic day here in the state of South Carolina. Lawmakers in the House of Representatives here voting by a decisive margin to bring the Confederate flag down in a marathon session that lasted well into the night.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ladies and gentlemen, if I could get your attention.

VALENCIA (voice-over): More than 12 hours after passionate and oftentimes contentious debate...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It isn't part of our future. It's part of our past.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Removing this flag from our front is not going to do anything to change this nation.

VALENCIA: ... members of the South Carolina state house overwhelmingly approving a bill to remove the Confederate flag from the capitol grounds.

This just weeks after nine black church members, including state senator and pastor Clementa Pinckney, were gunned down by a white supremacist at a Bible study in a Charleston church.

A group of lawmakers mounting opposition to the flag's removal, proposing dozens of amendments in an attempt to blunt the momentum of the debate being backed by a group of bipartisan legislators. Tempers fraying into the night, an impassioned plea from Republican Representative Jenny Horne to fellow members of her party.

HORNE: I cannot believe that we do not have the heart in this body to do something meaningful, such as take a symbol of hate off these grounds on Friday!

And if any of you vote to amend, you are ensuring that this flag will fly beyond Friday. And for the widow of Senator Pinckney and his two young daughters, that would be adding insult to injury. And I will not be a part of it! VALENCIA: A black flag draped over Pinckney's chair as debate came to

a head, the final vote overwhelmingly in favor of the flag's removal.

The move to take down the controversial banner a stunning reversal in a state that was the site of the first shots in the Civil War and has flown at the state house for half a century.

The bill now headed to the desk of South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley, who praised lawmakers. "It is a new day in South Carolina, a day we can all be proud of. A day that truly brings us all together, as we continue to heal as one people and one state."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VALENCIA: Under the Senate proposal, Governor Nikki Haley signs the bill, and the flag will come down 24 hours after she does so. She has five days to do it -- Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Nick. And as much as we're focusing on the politicians, this was really about people; namely, those who were lost in the massacre in that church. And one of them, of course, has risen to the top as a leader in what was symbolized in what was lost, and that, of course, was State Senator Pinckney.

And right now joining us is Armstrong Williams. He's one of the senator's cousins and one of the nine victims of that church massacre, of course, was the reverend and the senator. And he has become somewhat symbolic himself, in terms of what was lost on that day.

Let me ask you, you know that we are sorry for your and your family's loss and the loss of the other families that were affected by this situation. But now that you have this moment, what do you think the senator would have said about all this change?

ARMSTRONG WILLIAMS, COUSIN OF SENATOR PINCKNEY: Well, obviously, it was the senator who pushed for body cameras after Walter Scott was just shot like a terrorist in Charleston, South Carolina. And were it not for that, South Carolina would not have passed the law in his state for body cameras. And he was a strong voice for it.

There was no doubt Senator Pinckney -- and it's reflected in his surviving family, his immediate family -- thought this was a very bold and important step towards healing.

And another thing, Chris, is they also realize that that not everyone who embraces that flag see it as something of racism and hate and really see it as a reflection of their heritage. And so we have to be mindful of that.

The Pinckney family is very mindful that, going forward, because of their tragic loss, and the fact that his wife, Jen, his youngest daughter was in the church at the time of that tragedy, when they heard those bullets, want to be mindful that they're not here to divide. They want to heal and bring everybody together. Their loss and the other eight families that lost, and also people who feel a very strong emotion about that flag. But, you know, sometimes we just have to remind people, as you -- as

CNN did in its earlier package, is that that flag represented war against the United States; a war was fought. And when you lose -- when you win the war -- you lose the war, the victors don't -- the losers don't get the right to continue to wave their relics and images and their symbolism. Sometimes it finds itself in a museum.

And even Robert E. Lee, who was the general at the time, when he was asked by his Confederate soldiers, how -- did he want to be buried in his Confederate uniform? And he said, "Absolutely not. That would be treasonous to this country." Even he had the foresight, the understanding of what that flag represented even at that time.

[06:05:06] And so as we move forward, just for the peace of the state -- and it was not easy for some of these lawmakers to come to this conclusion and this decision. There are a lot of threats against them. Their oratory on that floor represented the feelings of their constituency.

And so we much bring people along to help them understand that symbols are very important. They can cause people to do some unbelievable things. And what that terrorist was able to do to those families and to one of their very own colleagues, my cousin Clementa, this is very personal for many of these legislators. And at the least, for the very least for them, they have to show leadership and say it is time to move on from this flag and discuss the issues that can really move South Carolina continuously forward.

And one of the good things, Chris, is that those sanctions in that state which has crippled and harmed that state for so long, will now be lifted as a result of this.

CUOMO: When you say sanctions, what do you mean, Armstrong?

WILLIAMS: Well, the NAACP and other organizations have encouraged different organizations and groups and corporations not to locate in South Carolina, not to do business in South Carolina. They've asked them not to have conventions in South Carolina. Sometimes that's lost upon us. And this has been going on for a very long time.

But now that that flag has pulled or is coming down, businesses and industry and hospitality will return to that state. And it can only enhance and grow the economy of that state.

CUOMO: And that will take us to what will actually matter here. That flag may have represented something during the war and shortly thereafter, but it was put back up during the civil rights movement as an overt act of defiance to that. And now that it is being brought down in the name of tolerance, the question becomes, what does it mean that the flag is now down? What does it mean going forward?

One of the lawmakers said nothing will change in this country because that flag is brought down. Do you agree with that? And if not, what is the hope of what changes or what is a step toward change in taking it down? WILLIAMS: Well, Chris, much has changed. You may not always hear it

in the news, but there are family members who are asking themselves, "What do I pour in my children? Do I pour hate? Do I pour resentment against someone because of the hue their skin is a little different from mine? And this is not just a conversation that's just happening with white families. It's happening with families across the board.

Because what we realize, while we are mature enough to understand that that flag did not leap off the pole and come down and cause what happened with my cousin and eight other families, but yet it played a role because, for some reason, that young man saw it as something that is -- in his mind, was something that symbolized hatred. And that hatred had to do with people that happened to look like me.

He went in that church, and he based his actions, after he sat down there and they showed him love, they showed him compass, they embraced him. He, himself, had a conscious moment to reflect the fact that -- he had second thoughts. But still there was something so deeply ingrained in him that he felt he had to kill -- terrorize these people for no reason at all.

And you have to ask yourself, if he's capable of doing this, how many other young people feel with this kind of hate and resentment just because of what they look like?

And so people are taking a deeper reflection about what they're teaching their children, not just what they're teaching them but the example that they set. So I will wholeheartedly disagree with that lawmaker. It does make a difference, because people are having a conversation.

For me -- for me, I never thought the flag was a big deal. I was never an advocate in days past of taking the flag down, but even I, after the loss of my cousin and being there in South Carolina and realizing the conversations that are going on, that it's time for change. We need to have a deeper conversation on race because race does matter. When someone can walk in a church, and it was one of the most sacred moments of our lives in prayer meeting, and take people's lives just because they are black, yes, we must have that conversation.

And that conversation and the loss of their lives and the removal of the flag and that pole is a step within no question in my minds in the right direction.

CUOMO: Armstrong, to be sure, every journey starts with a first step. This is a big one. And I appreciate so much, despite the pain that you and your family are going through, the way you bring such intelligence to this conversation. Armstrong Williams, thank you very much. Appreciate you coming on NEW DAY.

WILLIAMS: Thank you.

CUOMO: And on the political level, if you captured the change of heart and the passion for change the way lawmaker Jenny Horne did -- you watched a little bit of her speech. But wait until you hear what she actually said to her colleagues and why. Because it may well have pushed this bill over the top. She joins us at the top of our next hour -- Mick.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Very much looking forward to that conversation.

Well, the chairman of the RNC asking Donald Trump to do something usual. Tone it down. Reince Priebus now asking Trump to reign in comments about Mexican immigrants, saying they could have a detrimental effect on Latino support of the Republican Party.

Yet Trump doubling down on his comments about immigrants, speaking candidly with Anderson Cooper last night.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[06:10:06] COOPER: You talked about building a great wall on the border, or at least parts of the border, about being tough. What would you do in...

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: I would do something very, very strong. No. 1, I wouldn't think of anything until I built a wall impenetrable. There would be nobody coming into this country illegally. That's No. 1.

No. 2, I would get the ones that are criminals, drug dealers and the people that are forced in by Mexico. And you know exactly what I'm talking about, because Mexico is smarter and sharper and more cunning. And frankly, have much better negotiators than we have. And I would get the ones that are forced in by the country of Mexico into our country, forced in, those people would get out and they'd get out fast. The rest I would be looking at very seriously.

COOPER: When you say looking at seriously, would there be a pathway to citizenship for -- you're talking 11 million at the very least.

TRUMP: It's too early for me to say. When you say citizenship, the most we'd be talking about is legal. But let me just say, before I even think about that, we have to build a -- we have to build a wall, a real wall, not a wall that people walk through.

COOPER: You're talking about focusing on the criminals, deporting people. More people have been deported under Obama than any other president previously.

TRUMP: And more people are coming in under Obama by far than more president ever. There's never been an entrance like this. And they're walking in. They're walking right past our patrols. The patrols are told not to do anything.

COOPER: But actually, the Border Patrols have gone up significantly.

TRUMP: I can just say this, more people are in this country right now illegally than ever before. I will build a better wall. I will build it for cheaper, and Mexico will pay. COOPER: That's your next plan?

TRUMP: Yes.

COOPER: How will you make Mexico pay?

TRUMP: Because they are ripping us left and right. By the way, I love the Mexican people. Many Mexican people work for me. Many Mexico [SIC] people I do business with, they purchase things from me like apartments, et cetera, et cetera. I have great relationships with Mexico and with the Mexican people. I love the Mexican people. I love their spirit.

COOPER: You said when Mexico sends their people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're sending people that have lots of problems. They're bringing those problems to us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime, and they're rapists. You went on to say...

TRUMP: What did you -- how did you start it off? You said when Mexico sends its people. When Mexico sends its...

COOPER: Well, let me ask you about this.

TRUMP: I'm talking about the government.

COOPER: What evidence do you have that the government sends their...

TRUMP: Everybody knows it. This man or this animal that shot the wonderful, that beautiful woman in San Francisco, this guy was pushed out by Mexico. We bring him back, and they push them out. Mexico pushes back people across the border that are criminals, that are drug dealers.

COOPER: So if the article that you're basing this on, this "Fusion" article that you cited.

TRUMP: That's one of many articles.

COOPER: OK.

TRUMP: That talks about 80 percent. But that's not it. Just look at homeland security reports. Look at all of the reports there.

COOPER: But there are -- you talk about the reports. I've got to look at a bunch of stories here that say there's actually no correlation between illegal immigration and crime. In fact, immigrants actually commit crimes at a lower number.

TRUMP: Anderson, you're not a baby. OK? You're not a baby.

COOPER: I'm not saying that...

TRUMP: The illegals coming in are causing tremendous problems. In terms of crime, in terms of murder, in terms of rape, in terms of... COOPER: I'm going to give you two studies. Northwestern University, cited by "The Washington Post," says essentially no correlation between illegal immigration and violent crime. Pew Research Center, using figures from the University of Massachusetts, found, quote, "the crime rate among first-generation immigrants, those who came to this country from somewhere else, significantly lower than the overall crime rate and that of the second generation."

TRUMP: If somebody is an illegal immigrant, they shouldn't be here at all. There shouldn't be any crime. They're not supposed to be in our country. They're not supposed to be -- and I'm not just talking Mexico. They're coming -- excuse me, they're coming from all over the world. I'm not just talking about Mexico.

COOPER: We're talking central America, as well. But you're saying that there is a correlation between...

TRUMP: And you're probably talking about the Middle East, and you're talking about other places. The southern border is a disaster. I'm speaking this weekend in Arizona. They say the crowd is going to be enormous. Somebody said I'm the most popular person in Arizona.

COOPER: You said there is a correlation between crime and the illegals.

TRUMP: No, I'm not saying it is No. 1. But even if the studies were correct, I'm not talking about correlation. When you have illegal immigrants coming in, if they commit crime they're not supposed to be here.

COOPER: You did indicate that the people coming across the border were raping 80 percent of the women based on this poll...

TRUMP: You are -- you are -- read the article. Did you pull up the article?

COOPER: I did. I pulled up the article.

TRUMP: That article was written by "Fusion." Do you know who owns fusion?

COOPER: Yes, Univision.

TRUMP: Univision. Do you know who I'm suing? Univision. They're going to have a big problem with my lawsuit.

So let me just tell you something. Univision comes out like I'm some bad person. Univision is being sued by me. The thing that they own is "Fusion," and they're talking about 80 percent rapes. I didn't make that up.

COOPER: In the article it says it's corrupt officials; it's traffickers; it's gangs.

TRUMP: Sure, whatever it is.

COOPER: And it's migrants. Eighty percent from Mexico.

TRUMP: But as I said before, it's called rape. It is rape. And it's happening. And it's a shame. And it's horrible.

[06:15:05] COOPER: So you stand by your comments?

TRUMP: I stand by whatever I read from Univision. Univision did it. I didn't do it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: Well, he's consistent. Donald Trump is consistently himself. I think what people respond to and why he's high in the poll numbers is because he takes a stand. He takes it vociferously. He doubles down, as you can see.

PEREIRA: Triples down.

CAMEROTA: And that is, on some level, refreshing because some politicians don't always do that.

PEREIRA: But the other part is how long will that go? How long can that last and is that presidential?

CAMEROTA: We'll ask the man...

CUOMO: You can put a big word to how he defends it, but it doesn't make it any better.

It makes you wonder, what are we doing? Is he making news or is he making noise? If you give more oxygen to ideas that do not hold up, not only to fact and reason, which Anderson tried to do -- he's our best at CNN -- but you're fanning the flames of the worst that people have to offer. And now you're saying that may be a position of leadership?

CAMEROTA: I see it differently. I think he started a national conversation, one that we should be having on immigration. Whether or not you like how he said it.

CUOMO: This conversation existed long before.

PEREIRA: I feel like the two of them will debate this, but we're going to have more on Trump's interview throughout the morning. We'll have more opportunities to debate it here. We're also going to analyze the latest comments and get reaction from the Latino community in just a few minutes.

CAMEROTA: See, we're still talking about it.

CUOMO: It's how we're talking about it.

CAMEROTA: Thank goodness we have two hours left.

CUOMO: Another topic: Wall Street hoping to bounce back today following that technical glitch as they're calling it that stopped trading on the New York Stock Exchange for hours. That outage then added to jitters that already existed from overseas happenings in Greece and in China, the market meltdown there. So what does it all mean today?

CNN's chief business correspondent, Christine Romans, is here to break it down for us. And of course, Christine, if you give us a 100 percent answer on this on how to make a lot of money today.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: I can tell you it was 100 percent insane yesterday in the markets and for a variety of reasons. The futures are up this morning. I want to first point this out. You're seeing a bounce around the world. The Dow yesterday was down 261 points. It is really, really ugly.

And in the middle of that, the New York Stock Exchange shut down for four hours. Now that happens from time to time, but not usually for four hours. The stock exchange telling us it was a technical issue, a configuration issue; and they will be open for trade in a few hours when trading begins, and that will be in exactly three hours, 12 minutes. They will open for trading.

So the stock exchange shutting down, all of that traffic went to other exchanges. That didn't affect prices. That didn't affect prices. What affected prices was China and Greece.

I want to talk about China quickly, because when you look at world markets, China had a really, really horrible day yesterday. Look at the Shanghai Composite. This is all year. And now look at the past three months, a crash down 30 percent.

The Chinese government, you guys, is trying to step in there and stop a bubble from popping. And the more it goes in there and forces brokerages to buy stocks, and the more it goes in there and makes these new rules, the more fear that is spreading in the Chinese markets.

American investors don't have a lot of exposure directly to the Chinese market. The Chinese government keeps it very closed. It's Chinese investors, but it's very, very worrisome. When you look at something like that, a big market pop like that, that can affect commodities; it can affect sentiment. So we're really closely watching what's happening in China.

Chinese stocks bouncing back today, because the Chinese government went in and pushed the market higher. So there's a lot of concerns about that.

Let's talk to you a little bit now about the rest of the markets. Europe is up. We are at the end of the road here for Greece, folks. Greece has got to have major reforms and it's got to have a deal or it will be out of the euro. So there are hopes now that in the next few hours, this is will get resolved. If it doesn't, the dollar will rise, the euro will fall and we'll be talking next week about the ramifications for American investors.

CAMEROTA: Wow. So much going on, Christine. Please keep us posted in the next two hours as to what's happening with Greece and China. Thanks so much.

There's also a major shakeup in Baltimore to tell you about. Police Commissioner Anthony Batts out over his handling of the April riots and the recent spike in murders. Deputy Police Commissioner Kevin Davis is now stepping in. CNN's Suzanne Malveaux is live in Baltimore with the latest.

Good morning. Suzanne, give us the latest.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning, Alisyn.

The mayor is not out of the hot water yet, because she was also named in this report by the police -- the police union just yesterday. blaming them for a passive response to the civil unrest that turned into full-scale rioting.

But let give you a little bit of the backstory here of the mayor's decision, what was happening. There were three people who were murdered at the University of Maryland downtown campus Tuesday night. There was also the city council, some who have called publicly for Batts's resignation. But were privately preparing a letter calling for his resignation to present to her.

Then you also had the Fraternal Order of police. They released this report, scathing report about the handling of the riots. But they were also going to be holding a "no confidence" vote next week. And a recent revelation that there were police districts closed to the public in the evenings here.

And that all made a decision and contributed to the decision of the mayor saying enough is enough.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[06:20:07] STEPHANIE RAWLINGS-BLAKE, MAYOR OF BALTIMORE: Recent events have placed an intense focus on our police leadership, distracting many from what needs to be our main focus: the fight against crime. So we need a change. This was not an easy decision, but it is one that is in the best interests of the people of Baltimore.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: And we heard from the former commissioner, Anthony Batts, telling "The Baltimore Sun" that he was proud to serve the city, that it was his honor to serve the city. But now it is time to move on -- Michaela.

CUOMO: I'll take it, Suzanne. Thank you very much. We'll see what this means in the overall scheme of tranquility down there in Baltimore.

We're going to take a break right now. Question: provocative, Donald Trump synonymous. Do you think he's going to back down? Even Anderson Cooper, maybe he'll get him to back down? Oh, wait until you hear what he said. And wait until you hear what the head of the Republican Party is

saying about Trump.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[06:25:03] JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: (SPEAKING SPANISH)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Maybe you can talk to Donald Trump about that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Well, that was presidential candidate Jeb Bush taking a swipe at Donald Trump over Trump's immigration remarks.

And here's a scoop for you. CNN learning that the head of the RNC called Donald Trump last night with a message to tone it down. So here this morning with us to weigh in is CNN political commentator and political anchor at New York 1 News, Errol Lewis; and CNN senior political analyst and editorial director at "The National Journal," Ron Brownstein. Great to have you both with us.

So let me give you the scoop, Errol, from what our chief congressional correspondent tells us about this phone call between Reince Priebus, head of the RNC, and Donald Trump. He reportedly, Reince Priebus called Trump and has said, "I spent four years trying to make in-roads with the Hispanic community. How we address illegal immigration is very important to winning back Hispanics. Tone it down." Do you think that that holds any water with Donald Trump?

ERROL LEWIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Probably not. It's something I think that Priebus had to say, because he did, indeed, lose an election, in part because of the alienation of Latino voters.

There's also something to keep in mind, Alisyn, that there are people who are not Latino who really are offended by these remarks, as well. And they are swing voters. They are independent voters. They are equally important to the Republican Party's chances in 2016.

So he said what he had to say. It is absolutely going to roll off the back of Donald Trump. His entire candidacy at this point, the attention that he's getting, the conversation that has begun, it is really based on this issue.

He feels very passionately about it. He's not the only one. There are a ton of people out there who are right there with him. It's why he's ahead in the polls in North Carolina and some other places. And, you know, Priebus does not control the party at this point. The candidates do.

CUOMO: So, Ron, what are we doing here? Are we feeding a virus, or are we trying to provide an antiseptic to what Errol outlines as a view that is out there that is inherently wrong-minded about immigrants. What do you think about the media engagement of Donald Trump? Are we helping or are we hurting progress? RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: No, I think the media

is clearly inflating the Trump bubble. And Trump gets more attention than anybody else.

And there's good reason for Reince Priebus to be concerned. I mean, the political equation is pretty straightforward. Mitt Romney in 2012 won a higher share of the white vote than Ronald Reagan did in 1980, and he lost by 5 million votes. In 2016, demography virtually guarantees that the minority share will be larger than in 2012. Which means that either Republicans are going to have to improve their share of the white vote against what could be the first white women nominee ever, or they're going to have to get better on Hispanics and Asian Americans, in particular.

And if you look at what's happened to Reince Priebus's outreach since 2012, look at what happened. The Senate passed a bipartisan immigration bill. The House, Republican House, refused to bring it up. Twenty-six Republican states are suing to block President Obama's action, executive action on immigration. And now for the first time, which is something you didn't have in 2012, you have Republican candidates other than Trump, including Rick Santorum, and to some Scott Walker and Mike Huckabee talking about reducing legal immigration.

So Trump comes at the end of a long series of steps by the Republicans that are sort of pushing back against what Priebus called for after 2012, which is the outreach. And now they face this new challenge with his very kind of volatile and vitriolic language.

CAMEROTA: We're also talking about sanctuary cities because, in part, of the tragedy that happened in San Francisco. And presidential candidates are having to weigh in in terms of how they feel about places like San Francisco. So Jeb Bush did just that. He came out against them. Listen to what he has to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: We'll eliminate sanctuary cities, and here's how we do it.

We shouldn't provide law enforcement moneys for cities like San Francisco until they change their policies to make sure that convicted felons that are illegal immigrants are picked up by ICE rather than released into the community.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Errol, how can you argue with that logic?

LEWIS: Well, it's great on the -- on the stump. It's great as a talking point. The reality is, the 200-plus cities that are sanctuary cities are not a cause of the problem. They are a symptom of the problem. The localities are not going to adopt the cost, the liability. They don't have the legal authority to go out and enforce immigration policy.

So it's great to sort of say, "Well, I'm going to make sure San Francisco runs, you know, federal immigration policy in that part of the state." It's not going to happen. The local authorities don't have the capability. They don't have the legal authority. They don't have the personnel.

CAMEROTA: Why? Because they were requested to.

LEWIS: Well, if ICE wants to take on, you know, 30,000-odd people in any given year, and sort of create capacity to go pick them up, at which point they'll have to sort of initiate some kind of legal proceedings, you don't get to just -- you don't get to just grab people and hold them indefinitely just because you think they're not supposed to be here.

CUOMO: Look...

LEWIS: There's something called the justice system.

CUOMO: Errol is actually -- there is no two sides to this. He's 100 percent right. I mean, one of the things that is very deceptive in this, Ron, as you probably know, is calling them sanctuary cities. It has nothing to do with locals wanting to avoid getting rid of illegals.

[06:30:00] It's that they kept getting sued for discriminatory practices and for over-holding people past any judicial process with a warrant.