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Obama Calls For Sweeping Criminal Justice Reform; Republican Leaders Vow To Derail Iran Deal; Obama Defends Terms Of Iran Nuclear Deal; Study: More Americans Could Be Advised To Use Statins. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired July 15, 2015 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: President Obama going on the offensive to sell the nuclear deal with Iran. He said it meets every bottom line for keeping Iran from developing a nuclear weapon at least for now. What does Congress have to say?

Well, they have 60 days to review and debate the deal. Many are skeptical, that's putting it nicely. The president will hold a news conference on the Iran deal at 1:00 Eastern.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: El Chapo's prison break caught on surveillance tape. Mexican authorities releasing this video of the moment the drug kingpin vanished from his cell. You see him pacing, first, then turns around and he steps into a shower stall here and vanishes. A law enforcement source tells CNN that U.S. drug agents warned Mexico El Chapo was planning a prison break last year.

CUOMO: Revelations coming to light about the MH-17 almost a year to the day the plane was shot down allegedly by pro-Russian rebels. A draft report includes the exact type of missile used, trajectory and pinpoints where the missile was fired from. The report also put some blame on Malaysia Airlines for not avoiding the conflict zone over Ukraine.

CAMEROTA: All right, well, President Obama with a fiery speech at the NAACP convention calling for big changes to the prison system. He says it current laws disproportionately affect blacks and Latinos. He wants sentences also for nonviolent criminals reduced and solitary confinement reconsidered among many radical ideas actually.

So here to discuss all of this is our CNN political commentator, Van Jones. Good morning, Van.

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Hi, good morning to you.

CAMEROTA: So this was a second term speech, you know? This is where no holds barred. He can talk about this issue that is so vitally important, but most politicians don't really talk about prison reform. I mean, that's sort of further down on the ladder from things that politicians like to talk about. What did you make of his timing and his speech? JONES: Well, first of all, that used to be the case and these ideas used to be considered radical. What's interesting is, President Obama, got bless him, is actually behind the curve because Republicans have actually endorsed every one of these ideas ahead of him.

You have Republican governor, Rick Perry, he closed three prisons as governor, Kasich from Ohio, Republican governor running for office, big criminal justice reform guy. The Republican governor of Georgia, Governor Deal got 100 percent of the state legislature to sign off on criminal justice reform.

We now have five bipartisan bills in the Senate and one in the House all pointed toward criminal justice reform because as Newt Gingrich will tell you --

CAMEROTA: Yes, it's interesting to hear you giving the Republicans props that this is something that they have spearheaded.

JONES: Well, I guess the politics of this have changed so much. Newt Gingrich, I disagreed with him. We had a show together on CNN and we fought together every day. The one thing we agreed on, Newt said the prison system has become something conservatives can no longer support because it's a big failed government bureaucracy sucking up money and stealing liberty.

And it gets more money the worse job it does. Corrections doesn't correct anymore so now the conservatives have turned against it. Now obviously President Obama turns the plate on it, it changes the entire conversation and makes it even bigger.

But what I like about that president's speech is that he was talking about common sense stuff. Nobody thinks somebody should go to prison for 30 years for nonviolent drug charge and 25 years for shooting a cop. We have gotten so far out of alignment now.

CUOMO: Right, but Van -- you know, the pushback is that it smells like being soft on crimes. Even though Republicans have done a lot of this especially when they are in executive position because they know the price tags involved of what they do with people in the prison population.

It's still politically compassion towards the incarcerated hasn't won a lot of votes over the years, but the president is now pushing it. Let's play the sound about something that will be certainly controversial that felons should be able to vote.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Let's follow the growing number of our states and cities and private companies who've decided to ban the box on job applications.

[07:35:05] So that former prisoners who have done their time and are now trying to get straight with society have a decent shot in a job interview. If folks have served their time, and they have re-entered society, they should be able to vote. (END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: How about that, Van?

JONES: Listen, well, first of all, I think that's exactly right. I have talked to a lot of conservative Christian Evangelicals, who say, listen, if you believe if you are a Christian, you believe in redemption. You believe in second chances. You believe every soul matter.

How can somebody make a mistake when they are 19 years old and then when they are 90, they still can't vote, get a job, a student loan or apartment. Where is the redemption? Where are the second chances?

States like California allow people when they complete their parole successfully to vote again and it does give people at least some kind of stake in society. We are going through a big reconsideration as a country.

When you have -- in the United States, we only have 5 percent of the world's population. We are pretty small by population. We have 25 percent of the world's prisoners. One out of four people locked up in the world are locked up in the United States.

Are we that bad? No. We overreacted to the epidemic and we have stripped judges of the right to judge. Now they have to rubber stamp the stuff. Listen, let the judges judge. Let corrections correct. Let's save money and do smart stuff.

I don't want my kid using drugs or anybody else's kid using drugs. I saw kids using drug at Yale, they didn't go to prison. They went to rehab. Let's do the same thing for poor kids that we do for rich kids when they trouble with drugs.

CUOMO: And I tell you what, a lot of prisoners go into jail for drug offenses, a lot of them don't and get on drugs in prison because there is the corruption trade in so many of the places. What is the history of the first visit to a prison? Why is it the person? What will it mean? Give me a quick take.

JONES: Well, listen, no president has ever gone before. It's a big deal, sends a big signal. Also, there is legislation. You will see hearings next week. In the House, there is something called the safe justice act. You can go to justicereformnow.org and find out about this thing.

It's actually everything the president said there are Republicans, bipartisan, ten Democrats and ten Republicans including Neil Love (ph), including Sensenbrenner have signed on to a bill in the House.

This thing might actually get passed and signed by the president this year, shock the world, bipartisan unity on nothing except criminal justice reform. CAMEROTA: Really interesting. Van Jones, thanks so much for breaking it all down for us. Important conversation that it's time to have in this country.

CUOMO: There's another really important conversation that needs to be had, which in Congress about this deal. There are a lot of critics coming out. This deal is going to take some time to understand.

We are going to ask Republican Senator Tom Cotton, a major critic. You will remember him, he wrote that controversial open letter to Iran back in March. What does he think? Will it be approved? If not, why not and what is his alternative?

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[07:42:05]

CUOMO: All right, so the ink is barely dry on the Iran nuclear deal, but it's already facing crucial tests in Congress. The Senate and House will have 60 days to weigh the deal and debate and then decide whether or not to approve it.

Many in Congress already are vocally opposed to the agreement. One of them is Senator Tom Cotton, a Republican from Arkansas who authored that controversial letter to Iran a few months ago regarding the negotiations.

Senator, always a pleasure to have you on NEW DAY. Thank you for taking this opportunity to test your ideas on this. Have you had a chance to make it through the entire deal yet?

SENATOR TOM COTTON (R), ARIZONA: Yes, of course, Chris, I have reviewed the entire deal. Unfortunately, it's not as bad as I feared, it's actually much worse. First, before we get into the details, we have to remember who we are dealing with.

Iran is anti-American terror-sponsoring regime with the blood of hundreds of American soldiers on their hands. They cannot be trusted with nuclear weapons or even nuclear threshold capacity.

This deal puts them on the path to that whether in the coming months and years they violate the deal or even in eight to ten years if they keep the deal.

CUOMO: The pushback to that position will be if you have gone through this deal in detail, which is impressive, many of your colleagues have not yet. We hope that they do, as you have, this puts in a set of conditions and timing and restrictions that you had none of before this deal and even under the sanctions, the Iranians have built up a pretty sizable stockpile of potential.

COTTON: Chris, we started these negotiations two years ago in the president's own words to stop Iran's enrichment capability. Iran has no right to enrich uranium and as long as they have any enrichment capability, as long as they are testing new centrifuges and as long as they conducting advanced research and development, they are going to be mastering the process to develop the nuclear weapons.

Again, it doesn't really matter whether it happens next year or whether it happens eight to ten years from now. That is the blink of an eye in the lives of nations and this is a massive gamble on the hope that Iran will change in eight to ten years.

To give you a sense of how unlikely that it is, nine years ago, Iran was trying to kill me and my soldiers in Iraq. We were lucky, but hundreds of other American troops were not.

CUOMO: We understand and we know well of your service and you know, as I have said on the show before, we thank you for it and certainly Iran's activities and what seems at best terrorism around the world is now part of this deal that rankles a lot of people.

Let's listen to the president, though, and hear why he says that the premise of these negotiations, which was, even in Israel's mind to keep them from getting a nuclear weapon was achieved.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We are measuring this deal. That was the original premise of this conversation including the premise for Netanyahu. Iran could not get a nuclear weapon.

That was always the discussion and what I'm going to be able to say and I think we will be able to prove is that this, by a wide margin is the most definitive path by which Iran will not get a nuclear weapon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[07:45:05] CUOMO: Now other than their right under the NTT to which Iran is a signatory to deal with enrichment of uranium in a peaceful way, the president says this was the best set of restraints on the table. What would have been a better alternative?

COTTON: Well, the president said all along that no deal is better than a bad deal. I think this is a bad deal.

CUOMO: Why?

COTTON: He said at the beginning of these negotiations that the basic approach was to dismantle Iran's nuclear program in exchange for dismantling the sanctions. In fact, we are going to keep Iran's nuclear program in place. In fact, western countries are going to help Iran in some ways develop advanced nuclear capabilities and secure those capabilities.

CUOMO: Well, how so, though, Senator? Let me stop you there because if you read through the deal, you know, that two-thirds of centrifuges are going to be taken offline, 98 percent of the enriched Uranium is going to be sent somewhere else. We are not exactly sure where yet.

So therefore the potential for them to enrich uranium to weapons grade is down and their ability to have themselves checked exists in a way that it did not exist before. How does it make it more likely, this deal, that they get a weapon.

COTTON: Chris, let's just start with enriching uranium in centrifuges. Iran is currently using the most basic kind of centrifuges. Over the coming eight to ten years, they will have advanced research and development into extremely advanced fast spinning centrifuges, which will help them master the process to enrich uranium.

They don't necessarily need to develop the uranium stockpiles now. They can wait eight to ten years to develop it. Of course, they could do the same in a covert facility.

Let's talk about protecting their capabilities. The text of the deal explicitly says that the west will help Iran protect their nuclear capabilities from sabotage. That is a direct quote.

Imagine the fact we are going to help Iran develop their capabilities to protect what could be eliciting facilities from the kind of sabotage that their nuclear facilities have faced in the past. I think this is a very bad deal that's going to put Iran --

CUOMO: There's no language that reads elicit facilities, but that the Iranians want some type of assurance that in the name of inspection the IAEA or others wouldn't go in there and actually sabotage their own equipment. That's what that was. It wasn't about helping them create a bomb. What would you do to stop them from getting a bomb?

COTTON: Well, first, I believe the American people repudiate this deal and Congress will therefore reject it. That will give us a stronger negotiating position and the opportunity to re-impose sanctions that will be tougher, the kind of sanctions that I and 400 members including most Democrats have voted on two years ago in the House and we will have to restore the credible threat of military force.

CUOMO: Hold on. You just laid out two big ideas. Let's look at them one by one. One, where do you get the support internationally for these kinds of crippling sanctions when you know that is eroding more and more all the time that other, big, major players at the table want to do business with Iran so where do you get that support?

COTTON: Actually, Chris, that's not the case. The only place where sanctions were eroding is in Washington, D.C. --

CUOMO: No. India, China, Russia, they all want to do business. Some of them, we suspect, if we listen to sources in government, were starting to go around the back door way to doing business with Iran. There are others who are very questionable about keeping the sanctions up.

COTTON: Chris, we were the weakest link in these negotiations. The socialist government of France was driving the hardest line of all. The sanctions were not eroding until President Obama decided to lift them two years ago. We could have enforced the sanctions. America has by far the world's strongest and biggest economy

and we have the unique access to the world's international financial markets. Even China and Russia, in the end, though they might not have liked to go along with the sanctions did in the early days after 2010 and 2011.

They were beginning to work, but we let Iran out in 2013. There's no reason with the political will that we couldn't re-impose those sanctions and the credible threat of military force.

CUOMO: OK, that's the second point. Creditable threat of military force especially coming from a veteran such as yourself who understands better than many colleagues, the reality of the war versus the discussion of it as a tool, would you really be willing to use military force against Iran and why do you think that that would lead us to a better place given our history in Iraq and other places?

COTTON: Well, Chris, not only would I be willing, the president has said all along that the threat of force had to stay on the table. I don't know if Iran believed him, but last week, the incoming chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff testified that the United States has the capability to destroy Iran's nuclear facilities.

This would not appear like what the war in Iraq looks like for most of the last decade. We are not talking about 100,000 heavy mechanized troops on the ground. We are talking about the kind of action that President Clinton took, for instance, in Iraq in 1998 over several days of bombing campaigns against Saddam Hussein's command and control --

[07:50:02] CUOMO: But Iran is a much better militarily equipped entity than Iraq was. As you well know, it's not an easy target.

COTTON: No. But, Chris, just a couple months ago President Obama himself said in almost mocking tones we spend $600 billion a year on defense. Iran spends $30 billion a year on defense. We have the capability to utterly destroy Iran's nuclear facilities, their command and control facilities, their air defenses, and their coastal defenses. That is without question. The incoming chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff testified to that last week.

CUOMO: But whether you can do it and whether you should do it are two very different questions. Senator, thank you very much for taking the first step into this conversation with us. As the debate continues, please come back on NEW DAY so we can give our audience the state of play.

COTTON: Anytime, thanks, Chris.

CUOMO: Thank you, Senator -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Chris, we have an interesting segment coming up on NEW DAY. A former actor on the Cosby show coming forward to speak out about Bill Cosby. Stay tuned.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) CAMEROTA: In today's "New Day New You," new research could lead more Americans to take statins, that's the cholesterol lowering drug. A new report by doctors at Massachusetts General Hospital and Harvard Medical School backs up 2013 research the broadens the number of people who should get statins.

[07:55:07] That research has come under question, but now the updated criteria broaden preventive efforts to focus on all forms of heart disease. This treatment guidance could also be more cost effective for people preventing more spending on worst illness later in life they say.

All right, meanwhile, coming up, this video shows the moment that the drug lord known as "El Chapo" escaped from a maximum security prison in Mexico. This video raises far more questions. We'll analyze it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: How did the notorious kingpin remove a tracking bracelet before escaping through a mile-long tunnel?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The ventilation system, lighting, and a modified motorcycle presumably used to dig through that tunnel.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The world is a much more dangerous place today than it was yesterday.

PRESIDENT OBAMA: We have cut off every pathway for Iran to develop a nuclear weapon.

REPRESENTATIVE JOHN BOEHNER (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: The deal that we have out there is unacceptable.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: More bad news for Bill Cosby.

CUOMO: A former Cosby show actor says his idol is guilty.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It looks bad, Bill. Either speak up or shut up.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We crashed and I was the only one that made it out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As they came out of the clouds, she said all she saw was trees.