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Dash-Cam of Arrest of Sandra Bland Released; Investigators Looking into Background of Military Recruitment Center Shooter; Why Do So Many Americans Support Trump? Aired 8-8:30a ET
Aired July 22, 2015 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[08:00:00] ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Around here in the case of Sandra Bland there has already been a great deal of mistrust surrounding her case. Many people who don't believe the official lines being provided by authorities and investigators, and this newly released video doesn't do anything to help out that situation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Step out of the car.
LAVANDERA: Newly released dash-cam video of 28-year-old Sandra Bland's arrest is raising new questions about what really took place just three days before she was found dead in this Texas jail cell. For starters, the 52 minute video of the traffic stop and her arrest appears to have several discrepancies.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the car.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don't touch me.
LAVANDERA: Watch as the white vehicle driving on the left sudden suddenly vanishes from the road, and this brief moment when a tow truck driver walks away from the view then quickly reappears at the truck's door. Immediately following the scene repeats. All the while the audio is playing uninterrupted. It's not clear whether the video was edited or if an equipment video was to blame. All of this casting doubt the video reflects a continuous account of the heated encounter with Texas state trooper Brian Encinia.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm going to drag you out of here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're going to drag me out of my own car?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the car! I will light you up. Get out now! Get out of the car!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Really, for a failure to signal?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get over there.
LAVANDERA: A bystander captured images of the trooper holding Bland to the ground, but dash-cam video caught what she's saying.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're a real man now. You done slammed me and knocked me head in the ground.
LAVANDERA: Good, good.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You should have thought about that before you start resisting.
LAVANDERA: Authorities say bland later committed suicide in her cell. This is a look inside where she spent her final hours. The Texas department of public safety says Trooper Encinia failed to comply with the department standards for professionalism. He has been pulled off parole duty as state officials investigate. Police say they are looking into Bland's death as a murder.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LAVANDERA: We reached out to the department of public safety asking about the discrepancies in this videotape. We were told by a spokesperson that they would be looking at that and answering those questions at some point today.
But also another bit of news we could be getting today as well, Alisyn, is that the family that conducted and ordered its own independent autopsy of Sandra Bland, it is possible that we get the results of that independent autopsy back today as well, Alisyn.
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: That would be interesting. Ed, thanks so much for all of that background.
Joining us is Harry Houck. He's a CNN law enforcement analyst and a retired NYPD detective, and Marc Lamont Hill, a CNN political commentator and host of "Huff Post Live." Gentlemen, thanks for being here.
Let's just start with the moment of escalation, the moment that a routine traffic stop because she did not signal when she saw a police officer behind her as she was pulling over turns into something different. This is this moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the car now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why am I being apprehended.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I said I get out of the car.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why am I being apprehended? You opened my car door.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm going to drag you out of here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're going to drag me out of my own car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the car. I will light you up. Get out, now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: He says I will light you up. You can see the way I interrupt it, is that he is escalating. What do you see?
HARRY HOUCK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: The problem I have with the video is the fact of is he taking her out of the car because she would not stop smoking.
CAMEROTA: Right before this he says would you mind putting out your cigarette. And she says this is my own car, why do I have to put out my cigarette.
HOUCK: Right, and she doesn't have to. But the officer asked her. If she didn't, that's fine. I'm fine with that also. Now, was that the reason why he pulled her out? That's the way it looks. I don't know what's going through this guy's mind. I'm not a mind reader. The fact is does he have the right to pull her out of the car on a car stop? Yes he does.
CAMEROTA: But don't you think he's escalating unnecessarily here?
HOUCK: Let's put it this way. Would I do it? No, not because of the smoking.
CAMEROTA: Marc, what do you see?
MARC LAMONT HILL, HOST, "HUFFPOST LIVE": To answer your question, yes. He's clearly escalating this. She could have stayed in the car and they would have never had this interaction.
HOUCK: We don't know that.
HILL: Well, we certainly know that pulling her out of the car lead to everything that happened after that.
HOUCK: She was already, pretty combative at the beginning of the stop.
HILL: Let me finish my thought. When he comes at her and says what's wrong, you seem have a problem. Basically, you have an attitude. Why do you have an attitude? You don't have to ask her that. He could have just given her the ticket. Lots of people have an attitude when they get pulled over. You have a right to be unhappy. You have a right to be ticked off. But he was egging her on and getting her to do this stuff. That's unnecessary. His job as a professional is to diffuse the situation.
CAMEROTA: Harry, lots of people have an attitude when they're pulled over and we don't end up with an officer's knee in our back.
HOUCK: First of all, I agree with Marc, the police officer needs to be more professional. And I agree with that and I've always been saying that since I have been seeing this video. But the fact is he still has the right to pull her out of the vehicle. At the same time may place her under arrest because it's in lieu of arrest, because if the officer decides, listen, now you're going to get arrested for the summons, he can do it.
[08:05:00] HILL: That's a technicality. But you can always do a summons. I could jaywalk and you could arrest me.
HOUCK: Of course I could.
HILL: You can always arrest somebody.
HOUCK: The officer had the option and the fact that she kept coming at the officer, totally disrespect for the police officer.
CAMEROTA: Not coming at him. Verbally. Harry, I want to clarify something because she asks him 14 times why am I being arrested, why am I being apprehended? In your training, doesn't an officer have to tell somebody why they're being apprehended?
HOUCK: No. I don't have to tell you why you're being placed under arrest. I can just place you under arrest. It doesn't matter. You're going to find out and you usually know.
CAMEROTA: Would you tell somebody?
HOUCK: It depends on the situation. In something like that I would have told her you're under arrest get out of the vehicle. That's what I would have said.
HILL: So he asked her why she's upset. He pulls her out of the car for smoking a cigarette, then he's going to arrest her for lane change and then doesn't answer her question. Of course he pulled her over because it appears she made an illegal lane change.
HOUCK: She did. You can see it.
HILL: You can't defer to the whole I'm not a mind reader thing whenever we analyze police behavior. All we have is the tape. And I'm saying based on the tape he could have made different decision at least four different moments that would have stopped this.
CAMEROTA: Hold on. Speaking of the tape, I want to bring up the discrepancies here. The first one, this is why people believe it's edited. The first one you see the tow truck operator and then you see him again. And in the next one you see this white car. It comes in and pops out of frame. And in this one, this is where there's been audio for 52 minutes of this arrest, and then here the audio drops out and the video goes on for the next minute and a half. So nobody know if there was sort of audio. Does any of this arouse suspicion to you? Some looks just like strange video glitches.
HILL: It could be terrible video. Of course that's entirely possible. But the question is, does that arouse suspicion? Absolutely. The police officer's behavior combined with the video combined with the mysterious death, all of it together does arouse suspicion. It doesn't mean we have a full picture here. We need to investigate.
HOUCK: Let's alter the video when the car is being towed. Let's not alter the video during the stop. And that's what's really crazy about this. I think basically what happened is this is where they're cutting the video off to be able to turn it over to the press.
HILL: So there's no chance the video is edited?
HILL: There's a possibility, but I'm saying, why would you do it when the car is being towed? Why would you edit it while the officer is making the stop? This way you can cut things you don't like. It doesn't make sense.
HILL: There will be people like you that said the officer did nothing wrong. Maybe the edited parts are what --
HOUCK: Even these edited parts don't show the officer doing anything right or wrong.
HILL: I'm talking about what's not there. I'm saying the stuff that's not there might be damning.
HOUCK: What's not there, I mean, anything could be there.
HILL: This is why you would edit it, which is I'm saying we need to investigate it.
CAMEROTA: These do seem to be peculiar places to edit it, Marc, to Harry's point, because nothing was happening. But Harry, I want to move out because we talked to the Reverend Jamal Bryant, because he just talked to the family. They want to know about her death. Why was she left in the jail cell for three days after, again, not using a turn signal, using a plastic liner in her garbage can that ultimately killed her, is that common place that in a jail cell there would be a plastic liner?
HOUCK: Sure, why not. If that plastic liner wasn't there and she wanted to kill herself, all she had to do is take her clothes off and do it.
CAMEROTA: You mean she could hang herself.
HOUCK: She can hang herself from her clothes. Take her top off or bottoms off or use the sheet on the bed. There's so many ways for these prisoners to do something like that.
Also, based on the evidence I'm seeing there, there's no evidence to indicate that she was murdered at all. They interviewed the prisoners across from her cell and they said they heard and saw nothing. The video tape clearly shows nobody went near her cell during the time that she hung herself. So I mean people are just pulling things out of the air thinking this is a racial incident and a murder.
CAMEROTA: Marc, where do you want the investigators to start with this case?
HILL: I want two starts. First of all, I want to get to the bottom of this tape because, as you said, these are peculiar places to edit. But if the video is doctored here then there could be doctoring in places we haven't even considered yet.
But I also want to know what happened in that cell. Those things could be connected, they could be entirely disconnected. I don't know. What I do know is even in the best case scenario, even if there is no murder being covered up, there's still the fact that poor police practices lead to a three day incarceration which led to a death, and that in and of itself caused a problem. But I want to know what happened in that cell. I don't take the police's word as gospel. I just don't.
CAMEROTA: We may be getting more information. As Ed Lavandera said, more answers may be coming out. Thank you so much for the analysis.
HILL: Thank you.
CAMEROTA: Let's get over to Chris.
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Lindsey Graham, here's a guess, is waking up with a few missed calls this morning. Why? His rival Donald Trump upped the ante last night in South Carolina and gave out his personal cell number of the state's senior senator. That's not funny, except that it is. It's the latest move as well in the war of words. Let's get to CNN senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny live with the latest. What is going on?
[08:10:14] JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Chris, good morning. I mean, the Republican presidential race suddenly seems like more of a free for all or certainly a playground brawl. Now Donald Trump is off the campaign trail at least for today, but he is still at the center of the conversation whether some Republicans like it or not.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's been a very interesting three weeks, I will tell you.
ZELENY: That's a Donald Trump sized understatement.
TRUMP: They didn't like the way I'm a little loud. I'm a little too strong. They don't like it.
ZELENY: After rocketing to the top of the GOP field, Trump is now trying to stay there. He's fighting Republicans who fear he'll hurt the party's chances to win back the White House.
TRUMP: Every time I turn it on, I have some guy who is hitting me.
ZELENY: This morning a new Quinnipiac poll suggests some concerns of Republican leaders could be justified. In three key election battlegrounds, Colorado, Iowa, and Virginia, nearly six in 10 voters hold unfavorable views of Trump. But for now, his rhetoric is resonating with Republican primary voters. The war of words seemed to start when Lindsey Graham said this to CNN.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM, (R) SOUTH CAROLINA: He is becoming a jackass. TRUMP: Then I watch this video of Lindsey Graham on television today
and he calls me a jackass.
ZELENY: Trump retaliated by giving out Graham's personal cell phone number.
TRUMP: He gave me his number and I found the card. I wrote the number down. I don't know if it's the right number. Let's try it, 202 --
ZELENY: Jeb Bush respects Trump supporters but gently urged him to take a second look.
JEB BUSH, (R) FORMER FLORIDA GOVERNOR: What am I supposed to call him, too? Donald? I'll call him Mr. Trump. If we embrace this language of divisiveness and ugliness we'll never win.
ZELENY: And there are new signs that Trump is starting to get the scrutiny of a front runner. Opposing campaigns are pouring through his old statements, including many from CNN like this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you identify more as a Democrat or Republican?
TRUMP: Well, you'd be shocked if I said that in many cases I probably identify more as a Democrat. And it just seems that the economy does better under the Democrats than the Republicans.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZELENY: Now it's those old views that could come back to haunt Trump. But Trump is pressing ahead and he's trying to change the subject, this time back to immigration. His aides tell CNN this morning that he's heading to the U.S. Mexico border likely tomorrow for a tour with a group of border patrol agents. He is proposing building a new wall to stop undocumented immigrants to come into the U.S. Michaela?
MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: I'm going to go out on a limb and say there's probably going to be some sound bites from the trip to the border, Jeff. We'll be watching.
ZELENY: You're right.
PEREIRA: A huge get for the Pentagon, U.S. officials confirming the death of a top leader of an Al Qaeda offshoot the Khorasan group in an air strike from Syria. CNN Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr is live with more on who this man was and how they were able to do this. Barbara, good morning.
CUOMO: Obviously we're not hearing Barbara right now. We'll get back to her in little bit.
CAMEROTA: We sure will. Meanwhile, did the Chattanooga gunman that killed five servicemen become radicalized? That is the big question this morning as we learn the 24 year old did have an interest in a once key recruiter for Al Qaeda. Investigators are searching for clues now in his web searches. Let's get to CNN's Sunlen Serfaty live in Chattanooga with latest. What have we learned this morning, Sunlen?
SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn, investigators are uncovering many new details about Abdulazeez, and all of these signs really seem to be pointing them to terrorism potentially being the motive there. The FBI says they found internet searches that he made on a smartphone where he was researching if someone was questions whether they could use martyrdom to atone for his sins like drinking.
Additionally they are also scouring though his writings, some done in 2013 where he includes many references to Anwar al Awlaki, the American born Yemeni cleric, the Al Qaeda leader, someone that inspired recent terrorist attacks like the Boston marathon bombings and also the shooting in Paris like "Charlie Hebdo."
Investigators, what they're doing is they're focusing on the 48-72 hour window in the lead-up to the shooting. They're trying to put together a timeline, piece together exactly who he came into contact with. Now as investigators continue to dig in here they're also looking at his uncle in Jordan who is being held and questioned by authorities there. This is not see there's any information that suggests he's guilty or involved in any way, but it certainly does add another layer to this very complicated puzzle, Chris, that investigators are trying to solve.
CUOMO: All right, Sunlen. Some disturbing news to tell you about, and we keep telling you about this story, this report of several incidents again last night of lasers being aimed at planes over New York and New Jersey.
[08:15:05] That's what it looks like and, you know, look, the suspicion is right now that these are fools. That it's not terrorism, it's not criminal activity -- these are fools that are doing this.
At least four different planes including an Airbus near Newark Liberty International Airport, hundreds of people onboard, as well as flights near LaGuardia airport and Newark in New York. Meantime, the Port Authority says a United Airlines plane reports it was effected by a laser on approach to New York.
It literally blinds the pilots. They're going to catch you and when they do nobody is going to feel sorry for you.
PEREIRA: An antiabortion group releasing another undercover video on Planned Parenthood. In it, Dr. Mary Gatter is shown talking with activists posing as medical company representatives. She's heard haggling prices of fetal parts for medical research, at one point joking she wants a Lamborghini.
A Planned Parenthood official responding, saying the video was heavily edited in an attempt to, quote, "support false and outrageous claims".
CAMEROTA: All right. On a lighter note, President Obama joining Jon Stewart for the last time on Comedy Central for "The Daily Show". The commander-in-chief trying to school Stewart on the complicated dynamic in the Middle East. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JON STEWART, COMEDY CENTRAL: So we're fighting with Iraqis to defeat ISIS --
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Right.
STEWART: -- along with Iran. But in Yemen, we're fighting Iran with Iraqis and Saudis.
OBAMA: That's not quite right but that's OK.
STEWART: Whose team are --
OBAMA: Look, here's --
STEWART: Who are we bombing?
OBAMA: Right now, we're going after ISIL and we have a 60-country coalition and that's a top priority.
But with respect to Iran, look, this is an adversary. They are anti- American, anti-Israel, anti-Semitic. They sponsor terrorist organizations like Hezbollah.
STEWART: Sounds like a good partner for peace.
OBAMA: Probably -- well, as been said frequently, you don't make peace with your friends.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: It's hard to trip up the president there. The president joked that he signed an executive order for Jon Stewart to stay at "The Daily Show", but the comedian will sign off on August 6th.
CUOMO: What do you think?
PEREIRA: I think it's funny. I like the two of them together. I think it's a great opportunity for any sitting president to go on a show like that and show a different side of themselves.
CAMEROTA: I like any politician going on these to see if they're quick. You just see them a little bit unplugged. I like being --
CUOMO: How seriously they take themselves, but also a great demonstration of what the risk is with political satire on Jon Stewart specifically, that he was oversimplifying what's going on in the world. He was oversimplifying why you make a deal with Iran. Of course, it's not because they're a great partner for peace.
CAMEROTA: But for comedy, that's OK to oversimplify.
CUOMO: I know. It's just -- or is it, when people start to believe the jokes more than when it comes out of the president's mouth.
CAMEROTA: That's not his fault. CUOMO: That's what you say.
CAMEROTA: That is what you say.
CUOMO: From one jokester to another.
Donald Trump, serious man, leading the Republican pack right now, but as he makes more GOP foes, could he decide to run as an independent? We're hearing no, that he believes he's the man for the GOP, and the faithful seem to be echoing that in the polls.
But we'll take a closer look at Trump as a potential 2016 spoiler. The threat is real. We'll tell you why.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[08:22:06] DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The guy's got zero in the polls. He's got nothing -- he's got nothing going anyway. I don't even think he's very popular in his own state, because you heard the applause I was getting. I did it for fun and everybody had a good time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: Everybody had a good time.
That was Donald Trump unapologetic, as you heard, for revealing Senator Lindsey Graham's phone number. This as Trump is set to visit Laredo, Texas, tomorrow. He will tour America's border with Mexico and go around with border agents. We'll see how that goes tomorrow morning.
We want to bring now our guests to talk about all of this. CNN political commentator and Jeb Bush supporter, Ana Navarro, and former Reagan White House political director, and contributing editor for "American Spectator", Jeffrey Lord.
Great to see both of you.
So, you heard -- Jeffrey, you heard Donald Trump.
JEFFREY LORD, AMERICAN SPECTATOR: Yes, ma'am.
CAMEROTA: He says it was fun for everyone that he released Lindsey Graham's cell phone number. Is this presidential talk do you think?
LORD: Well, he has a sense of humor and I think Senator Graham is determined to make himself the chairman of the Trump for president campaign. When you do the kind of things that Senator Graham is doing, all this does is bring more support to Donald Trump. I'm a little fascinated.
CAMEROTA: You mean calling him --
LORD: A jackass.
CAMEROTA: A colorful name. Yes, that.
CUOMO: I think --
LORD: I can't say that on live TV.
I mean, to be serious here, this is -- this is the problem. They have two of the things that Donald Trump talks about, confidence and the establishment insiders. I have printed out an article this morning. Here's Jeb Bush in "Politico" courting lobbyists, meeting with two dozens of them, raising all kinds of money, and now, he's got some sort of lobbyist reform program.
In other words, this goes to the issue of the double game. I'm not picking on Governor Bush here, this is what the Republican base has a problem with in terms of the Republican establishment --
CUOMO: Right. But, Jeffrey --
LORD: -- saying we've got to win, and the answer is, win for what? Why are we supposed to win?
CUOMO: You're making a good point. I mean, one small point as push back. Trump is a self-admitted purveyor of that same double standard, that he gave money to every politician and he did it because he thought they would return to him in business. So, certainly, he's not someone to point to that problem.
But you do point to a larger issue and, Ana, I can tell by the grave look on your face this morning that there's concern here. Mel Martinez was on talking about how he believes that Jeb Bush is the right candidate for the party.
But when you look at the poll numbers, it's not just that Donald Trump has captured the mood of the disenfranchised, with the outraged or whatever you want to say, but he takes a big bite out of the nalgas of your friend Jeb Bush head up against Hillary Clinton.
ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: He takes a big bite out of what?
CUOMO: The nalgas, the butt cheeks.
[08:25:01] NAVARRO: That's what I thought you said.
(LAUGHTER)
NAVARRO: All right. Cuomo showing off some Spanish today. Let's remember he is married to a Latina.
Look, I don't think he's -- frankly, I don't think he's taking a bite out of Jeb's apple, frankly. I think he is taking a bite out of everybody else's apple. I don't know that there's that much crossover between Donald Trump potential voters and supporters and Jeb supporters. CUOMO: But in the poll, Ana, they go head up against Hillary, he only
takes 4 points away from Hillary when you add them as a third candidate, and he takes a ton away from Jeb. I mean, that's the numbers.
NAVARRO: Oh, that's a different issue. If he runs as a third party candidate, I think it is a different issue and one of the things that I have been saying all along is, look, you know, Donald Trump is a fraud. Go look at his views.
Up until just a few years ago, he was a Democrat. He has donated money to every campaign of Hillary Clinton's. He has praised Hillary Clinton. He praised Barack Obama's stimulus program.
He employs illegal immigrants. He takes government subsidies. He doesn't meet with special interests because he is a special interest. He has given and dulled out money to every side.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
NAVARRO: Now, he's pretending to be a Republican.
His ideology is one, it is the ideology of Trump. He has not said he's not going to run as a third party candidate. He has not said he will support the Republican nominee.
So, what I would say to my Republican brethren is, take a step back. This is for the presidency of the United States. Let's take a deep breath. Let's take a look at people's records. Let's take a look at their views and where they stand, and whether they are electable before we jump on any band wagon.
CAMEROTA: Let's listen to what Donald Trump just said this morning. He says that he will get the Latino vote. Here's why. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have to attack Hillary. She was the worst secretary of state in the history of the country. She's got plenty to lose by. Believe me, if I'm chosen I will beat Hillary.
And I'll also get the Hispanic vote. I employ thousands and thousands of Hispanics. They love me. I will get the Hispanic vote, because I'll bring jobs back from China and lots of other places.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: What do you think of that logic, Jeffrey?
LORD: There's a poll out of Nevada that shows him getting 31 percent of the Hispanic vote. So, I don't think that that's farfetched at all.
And as far as Donald Trump being a Democrat that famous speech that Reagan gave in 1964 there's a line in there that says, I have spent most of my life as a Democrat.
So, you know, there's a lot of precedent going around with the most famous Republican president of the modern error in terms of having been a Democrat. So I don't see that as a problem at all.
CAMEROTA: Ana, he says, Trump says he will get the Hispanic vote because he employees thousands of them.
NAVARRO: Well, I'm not sure that the thousands that he employees are all eligible to vote. If "The Washington Post" is correct and a good number of them are illegal I suspect they won't be able to vote. That would be committing voter fraud.
And I also think that he, you know, I don't know what he -- what he puts on his Wheaties in the morning to believe that Latinos like him or Hispanics like him. I mean, I know he likes himself a lot, but in the event that he's got any doubt. Let me explain it to him in English and then in Spanish.
(SPEAKING SPANISH)
OK? Latinos are not going to vote for you. We don't like you.
You know why? Because you don't like us and you disparage Mexicans in one big broad group. So, you know, look, the guy lives in a parallel universe. I mean, I don't know how you respond to it other than, you know, taking some hallucinogens (ph) and going the same route.
LORD: And that right there is called identity politics, and that's what's wrong with the country and should never be part of the Lincoln and the Republican Party. We should be color blind period, that's it.
CUOMO: But, Jeffrey, but how do you see that as a defense of what Trump is doing?
LORD: See what as a defense of?
CUOMO: You know that proposition? How is Trump representative of that principle being brought to fruition?
LORD: Well, he's looking at, quote/unquote, "Latinos" as Americans. He's talking about jobs. I mean, why is he getting 31 percent in the Nevada poll of the Hispanic vote. I mean, I love to know the answer to that. If he's so unpopular, how could he possibly get 31 percent of the poll?
CUOMO: Do you think that -- I mean, look, who knows what is behind that one poll. Maybe it's reflective. Maybe it isn't.
But we know what he said. He's going to the border tomorrow and do you believe he's going to go down there tomorrow and be color blind and give a message of unity, or do you think he'll stoke the flames of discontent and paranoia about people coming across?
LORD: I have no idea what he will say, but I would imagine he talks about the need for borders. Mexico has borders. If you cross them from the south, you're in big border. We had an American marine that crossed the border into Mexico by mistake, and they threw them in jail for months on end.
