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Bush, Trump Trade Jabs in New Hampshire; Trump: Clinton's Scandal 'Hard for Her to Overcome'; North & South Korea Exchange Artillery Fire; ISIS Claims Credit for Cairo Car Bombing; Police Clash with St. Louis Protesters after Shooting. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired August 20, 2015 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A night of dueling town halls in New Hampshire.

[05:58:54] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald Trump versus Jeb Bush.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't see how he's electable.

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Mr. Trump doesn't have a proven conservative record.

TRUMP: The only thing constant is Trump.

BUSH: He was a Democrat longer in the last decade than he was a Republican.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: He thinks Hillary Clinton has a better chance of becoming a convict than a winning candidate.

TRUMP: It's either criminal or it's incompetent. Neither is acceptable to be president.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Heated protests in St. Louis.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They're shooting it on residential streets.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Glass bottles and bricks were being thrown at the officers.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What are you lining up for? There's no one here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Breaking this morning, ISIS moments ago claiming responsibility for a bomb that detonated overnight in Cairo.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY, with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota, and Michaela Pereira.

CUOMO: Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Thursday, August 20, now 6 a.m. in the East.

And up first, a Republican battle royale. Donald Trump, Jeb Bush, sharpening their attacks on each other, letting the verbal jabs fly at dueling town hall events. They were just miles from each other last night in New Hampshire, but they were a world away in terms of what they were saying.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: It was good stuff. Bush challenging Trump's conservative credentials, Trump calling Bush, quote, "unelectable."

Trump's surging poll numbers part of a wide-ranging conversation that he had with Chris here. We have much more on that ahead.

But first, let's begin with CNN's Sara Murray. She is live in New Hampshire.

So Sara, tell us about this unusual town hall that Donald Trump had.

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn.

You're right, it was unusual for these two candidates to have events so close to one another. And it seems like the Trump campaign was trolling the Jeb Bush campaign a little bit by adding their town hall later.

The reason it was such a fiery evening, though, is Jeb Bush's new strategy when it comes to Donald Trump taking him on face to face. Let's take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MURRAY (voice-over): Step aside, Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather.

TRUMP: Thank you. Thank you.

BUSH: Thank you. Thanks.

MURRAY: Donald Trump and Jeb Bush are taking over the ring. In a night of dueling town halls in New Hampshire, just 15 miles apart and within an hour of each other, both Republican presidential candidates threw jabs.

TRUMP: I don't see how he's electable. Jeb Bush is a low-energy person. For him to get things done is hard. He's very low-energy.

BUSH: Mr. Trump doesn't have a proven conservative record. He was a Democrat longer in the last decade than he was a Republican.

MURRAY: Though Bush set the date for his town hall first, his crowd of about 200 got walloped by Trump's 1,200.

TRUMP: You know, we have a lot of people outside, hundreds and hundreds of people standing outside. MURRAY: Some even spilling into an overflow room to see the

candidate in his first official town hall.

TRUMP: You know what's happening to Jeb's crowd, as you know right down the street? They're sleeping!

He was supposed to do well in New Hampshire. He's going down like a rock.

MURRAY: Though he's dubbed himself the joyful tortoise, it seems Wednesday was the night Bush came out of his shell, throwing this punch at Trump's immigration policy.

BUSH: Hundreds of billions of dollars of costs to implement his plans is not a conservative plan.

MURRAY: A blow the GOP frontrunner blocked, telling reporters...

TRUMP: The only thing constant is Trump. All of them change on the bottom. They're going up and down like yo-yos. I'm not going anywhere, folks. I'm not doing this for my health. I'm doing this to make America great again.

MURRAY: Florida former governor doesn't think that's enough to win the fight.

BUSH: People are going to want someone sitting behind the big desk that they know their compass points north, that they have the integrity to act on what they say they'll do, and they have the leadership skills to make it so. That's it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MURRAY: Now Trump and Jeb Bush will be going their separate ways today. Jeb Bush continues barnstorming with two stops here in New Hampshire.

Meanwhile, Donald Trump is looking ahead to Friday. He'll be holding a pep rally in Alabama. They're drawing such a large crowd the aides tell me that they already have 25,000 RSVPs, and they had to pick a new venue for an event. This time, it's at a football stadium.

CUOMO: Sara, you and I were on together last night. Why aren't you as beat as I am this morning? Where is this energy coming from?

CAMEROTA: She is bursting with energy.

CUOMO: Give me some of what you're taking.

MURRAY: It's all the coffees. I'm just throwing back coffee.

CUOMO: Amazing. Amazing. All right. We'll be back with you in a little bit.

So Donald Trump was in rare form when we sat down yesterday. I say "rare," because he had kind of changed. This was Trump trying to present as a frontrunner. We talked about all the big issues: the presidential race, obviously, the politics; foreign policy; the economy; ISIS. But how he talked about these things was a little different.

That is until it came to rival Hillary Clinton. And then it was vintage Trump. Here's what I mean.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: So we have the polls in politics. We have policy, and then we have the personal. They're all "P's." And we'll jump around as seems right to you. OK?

TRUMP: OK, that's fine.

CUOMO: The latest CNN/ORC poll, you don't get more accurate than that, it has you for the first time considered competitive in the general election, six points separating you and Hillary Clinton. You must be shocked.

TRUMP: Well, it's not my focus right now. Right now I have 16 other people that I'm looking at, and that's not my focus; but indirectly it probably is.

And I think that Hillary is going to have a hard time being in the election, based on what's happening with the emails, the servers, maybe even the speeches. I think it's going to be a very hard thing for her to overcome.

When I look, Chris, at what happened with Petraeus on a much smaller level, great general, wonderful guy, everybody loves him. And it destroyed his life over much less. I mean, in terms of confidentiality, in terms of importance, much less and far fewer, and it would seem hard to think that somebody could have a much worse situation than him and escape.

CUOMO: Well, the factual distinction would be that that was classified information with Petraeus; and he knew it and he used it. Here, we do not know yet that Hillary Clinton was doing the wrong thing or mishandling classified information.

[06:05:05] TRUMP: Well, it looks like it was, and it certainly looks like it was very high-level information. And what's the purpose of it? You know, it's always skirting the edge. What's the purpose of it? In the end, she had something in mind. She didn't want people to know or something, but what is she doing? Why is she doing it?

CUOMO: You think this is really going to hurt her long-term?

TRUMP: I think it's devastating. I think it's devastating for the election, but I think her bigger problem is not the election. I think her bigger problem is going to be the criminal problem.

CUOMO: Really? You really think that this could turn out to be a criminal situation for Hillary Clinton? Because there's no reference of that from the investigators right now. TRUMP: I don't think I'm the only one. I mean, the FBI is

involved. They only do criminal. I don't think I'm the only one. Now maybe it's somebody on her staff, but look, it's either criminal or it's incompetent. It's one or the other. There's either gross incompetence or criminal. And neither is acceptable to be president.

CUOMO: I feel like you're skipping the headline. You're six points from Hillary Clinton. Nobody would have expected that. You're kind of glossing over it. Why? Shouldn't you be saying, "Six points, I can't believe I'm not ahead"?

TRUMP: Well, that's one thing I could say, I guess. You know, I think we'll do very well against Hillary. Hillary's record as secretary of state was a disaster. She was in favor -- totally in favor of the Iraq War, which is obviously not a good soundbite. I think we're going to do very well.

And as you know, I've been against it for years, the Iraq War. I said, "You're going to decimate Iraq. Iran will take over the Middle East and take over Iraq," which is exactly what's happening. "And somebody's going to come and take over the leftover oil." And who did that turn out to be? ISIS.

So if you look at 2004, exactly what I said happened. So call it vision -- I have to call it vision because I'm trying to get elected. For the first time in my life. I'm a politician all of a sudden. But there was a certain vision. I've gotten a lot of credit for it.

They've made a terrible mistake, and then they made a terrible mistake the way they got out. And in my opinion, they made an even worse mistake not keeping the oil; because ISIS took the oil and Iran is going to take the rest.

CUOMO: People wanted out, though, Mr. Trump, and they didn't want forces there. They don't want forces there now. If you wanted to do what you sometimes suggest, which is take the oil, that would take troops. That would take danger. That would take blood and treasure.

TRUMP: Well, I'd like to take the oil, and I'd give a lot of money to the people that were -- to the families of the people that were killed, to the incredible wounded warriors that are all over the place. I love these people. These are the greatest people. And they're living in hell. And I'd give lots of money to them, their families.

I mean, all the people -- we spend $2 trillion, thousands of people killed, thousands, tens of thousands of wounded, where we have nothing. Right now Iran is going to take over Iraq; and ISIS has already taken big parts of the wealthy section of Iraq.

CUOMO: Would it be worth creating more wounded veterans in order to do what you want to do here?

TRUMP: Well, see, what I would do, you won't have that many, I will tell you. I would just take over the source of their wealth. A big source of their wealth is the oil.

And also, if you look at what's going on with the banks, the Iranian banks, the Saudi banks, they're funneling money into ISIS. And yet we help these people; we make this horrible deal for every one of the worst -- I think it will go down as one of the worst deals ever made by a country with another country. And it's going to lead to, whether it's nuclear destruction -- you could name lots of bad scenarios. But the deal with Iran is a totally incompetently negotiated transaction.

CUOMO: Wasn't one of the reasons, and I know there are many and it's complex, but that the allies felt they needed to do a deal with Iran was obviously the nukes. But also, Iran has been helpful with ISIS. They've been fighting for ISIS for whatever reasons. Maybe they are good or bad or neutral reasons, but they've been fighting against ISIS, not trying to help us.

TRUMP: There's a whole thing going on. First of all, you look at Iran with Syria, now ISIS is fighting Syria. We're supposed to be Syria's great enemy, but we're fighting ISIS, you could almost say, why are we fighting ISIS in Syria? Let ISIS fight with Syria and, you know, take up the leftovers or do whatever you have to do.

So Assad has to be looking at us and saying, "Hey, these are supposed to be my enemies, but they're the ones that are fighting ISIS." And ISIS is a very, very big enemy from his standpoint.

So there are so many mistakes we're making in the Middle East it's incredible. But when you look at just that one thing, ISIS wants to go after Syria. We're fighting ISIS in Syria.

Now, the other thing is that ISIS is taking oil in Syria. I am all for the oil. I want to take care of ourselves. I want to rebuild this country. We should focus on the wealth of ISIS. We have to do something with ISIS.

While I was against going after Iraq because it will destabilize the Middle East -- I was right -- now we have to do something. When they're chopping off heads because a person is a Christian, and by the way, chop off head of almost everybody anyway, but you have people that are living in hell. I mean, this is like medieval times. So we have to do something.

But I say take the wealth, take the oil, and I also say give lots of money -- and there will be plenty left over; it's peanuts by comparison -- to the families of those soldiers that died and to the wounded warriors. Plenty of money to them, because they deserve it.

[06:10:01] CUOMO: When you think about ISIS and what you do to stop them, how much of it for you is about the military? How much of it for you is about doing other things, political things to strengthen the regions that they're preying upon?

TRUMP: Well, I think a lot of it is about the military. And I think one of the things I noticed in your poll, I came out way, way ahead of everybody on the economy; and a lot of people weren't surprised to see that. But I came way out ahead on the military.

CUOMO: ISIS specifically.

TRUMP: And ISIS. I think the I will be a great sleeper on the military, because people wouldn't think it's my strength, but I think it would be one of my strengths. I want to build up our military. I want to have such an incredible military that nobody is going to play games with us, nobody is going to mess with us. And hopefully, we won't ever have to use our military. But we need a powerful military.

Being in the real-estate business, I get so many listings of bases: Army bases, Navy bases, you know, so many all the time of bases for sale. A place where they have soldiers is for sale. I keep saying, how many of these places do they have where I can get all these listings? You take a look. A lot of sales of bases, military bases.

I would build up our military so strong, so powerful that nobody will mess with us. And I think, actually, that would be the thing that I would be really just about the best at.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: Just on that last one, a lot of generals believe a stronger military is actually a smaller military.

But to justify my introduction, I think that that first question about the poll, ordinarily Donald Trump would have knocked it out of the park and said, "Of course I'm up. I should be up by 25 points."

CAMEROTA: "I should be beating Hillary."

CUOMO: But he didn't. He was more reserved.

Then, however, he can't resist his use of facts as he sees them to advance an argument, others would call hyperboles. And when he goes for his rivals he goes for blood. That's just how he is.

CAMEROTA: Yes, I mean, look, I think it's always interesting to watch you interview him, because you do -- you get into the nitty- gritty. You do a deep dive, and he sort of dances on the surface.

CUOMO: He's very good at deflection.

CAMEROTA: That's what he likes to do. I mean, he just...

PEREIRA: Not a lot of nuance. Not a lot of nuance.

CAMEROTA: Right.

CUOMO: But it's...

PEREIRA: More, right? You've got more coming?

CUOMO: Absolutely. But you know, he's saying what's working for him. Can he deliver? That's the question for the voters. CAMEROTA: All right.

CUOMO: So we will have more on that. He's going to talk about jobs. He's got plans for how he wants to do different things. We also start talking a little bit more about his family, his wife. You know, she's an immigrant. You know, how does that work in that dynamic? Is that why we haven't seen her much? And we'll get those answers along with that, so it's good.

CAMEROTA: Fantastic.

All right. We now turn to several breaking news stories overseas to tell you about.

North and South Korea exchanging fire over their heavily fortified border this morning. The South Korean military says it fired dozens of shells in response to North Korea firing a rocket. We have more on this. Let's get right to CNN's Kathy Novak. She is live in Seoul with all the breaking details.

What do we know, Kathy?

KATHY NOVAK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Alisyn, South Korea's military is on high alert at the moment because of this incident that has happened along the western side of the border that separates North and South Korea.

Tensions have been very high here on the peninsula recently for two reasons. The first, is that the United States and South Korea are conducting their annual joint military exercises. This is something that always makes the regime of Kim Jong-un very angry. And it issued warnings about that over the weekend.

The second thing that is making North Korea very angry at the moment is that South Korea has resumed its program of psychological warfare. It has been using speakers along the DMZ -- that's the heavily-fortified border -- to broadcast anti-North Korean messages into North Korea.

Now as you know, the regime of Kim Jong-un keeps a tight control on any communications that go into the ears of its population. So it really doesn't like South Korea doing this. And it appears that North Korea has targeted these speakers that South Korea is using -- Michaela.

PEREIRA: Interesting development there, Kathy. Thank you so much for that.

Breaking in Egypt, ISIS claiming responsibility for attacking a security building in Cairo with a car bomb so powerful it was felt all across the city. Dozens have been wounded.

I want to turn right now to CNN's senior international correspondent, Nick Paton Walsh, who has all the latest details for us, live from Beirut -- Nick. NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT:

Michaela, 29 injured, six of those said to be police. This 2 a.m. in the morning blast knocking windows out around for blocks, we're told. In fact, a statement from security services saying a car pulled out in front of the building, perhaps using that dead of night to get through, perhaps, a lapse of security. That explains a lower death toll, certainly, in this. And then one man got out of that car, got on the back of a motorcycle and sped away.

A claim of responsibility from an ISIS affiliate, well, ISIS on the headed note paper, saying that they were behind this. In fact -- revenging, in fact, the execution of six militants back in May. It's most likely, though, this is not actually ISIS from Syria or Iraq reaching out into Egypt, but in fact, a local affiliate in an area called the Sinai, known as Ansar Bair al-Maqdis, which has recently taken on the ISIS branding, affiliating themselves to them, are in fact behind this.

A lot of violence in that Sinai province in the past months or so, but this attack in the heart of the capital, the worst, really, since the assassination of the chief prosecutor by a bomb blast back in June.

[06:15:12] The intense pressure from the Sisi government there, the new president Sisi, cracking down on counterterrorism laws there, much in the treatment of his opposition. They're not doing much at this stage to stop militants striking in the middle of the capital, Chris.

CUOMO: And Nick, that extension of the ISIS brand relevant in this situation, as well. Please let us know any developments. Appreciate the reporting.

Also overseas, Thai police now say at least ten people were involved in that deadly Bangkok bombing. Authorities say it's, quote, "unlikely" an international terror group is behind the blast.

Meanwhile, a driver, a taxi driver who picked up the main suspect said he was very calm. He also said he appeared to be a foreigner. Remember, 20 people were killed Monday. Many more injured after a bomb went off at a popular shrine.

PEREIRA: Three firefighters have been killed after their vehicle crashed while battling a massive wildfire in northern Washington state. Officials say flames engulfed the vehicle as the blaze spread around the towns of Twisp and Winthrop. Four other firefighters were injured, we understand one critically. President Obama has been briefed on the fire and has directed his administration to provide federal assistance as needed.

CAMEROTA: More breaking news overnight to tell you about. Police and protesters clashing in the streets of St. Louis following the fatal officer-involved shooting of a black teenager. Police firing tear gas into a crowd of demonstrators they say were throwing bricks and bottles and ignoring calls to disperse. CNN's Ryan Young is live in St. Louis. Ryan, what happened?

RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It almost sounds too familiar, once again, where you're talking about nine people being arrested here. Those bricks and water bottles being thrown in their direction and then police in heavy riot gear once again.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

YOUNG (voice-over): Overnight a car set on fire.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's something on fire down there.

YOUNG: And a house ablaze in the midst of a heated protest in St. Louis. Police say amid the demonstrations, some businesses were burglarized.

SAM DOTSON, ST. LOUIS POLICE CHIEF: Nine individuals, ranging from charges from impeding flow of traffic to resisting arrest, are now in our custody.

YOUNG: The anger beginning hours earlier when officers shot and killed 18-year-old Mansur Ball-Bey as he ran down an alleyway, the grass left stained with his blood. Officials say the suspect pointed a gun at officers after they tried to execute a search warrant. Soon after, demonstrators, incensed by the death, blocked the main street.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police are driving down the street, shooting tear gas where kids are.

YOUNG: Police say after multiple requests to disperse, they began shooting tear gas into the crowd.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: These people are actually standing here not doing a thing, and they are shooting this into where their cars are and kids are taking shelter.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Keep moving!

DOTSON: As officers approached them to ask them to leave the intersection, glass bottles started to be thrown at officers, bricks started to be thrown at officers. Officers had to use shields to protect themselves from the objects that were being thrown at them.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

YOUNG: Now Chris, this case is a little different. There's a Tuskegee Airman who actually had his car stolen recently, and police were in that area trying to execute a search warrant. And then they were chasing behind the suspect, who they say was armed, and that's when this whole incident spiraled out of control.

CUOMO: Ryan, thank you very much. Appreciate the reporting.

So Donald Trump and Jeb Bush working the heavy bag: body, body, head, head. Dueling town hall events in New Hampshire. Both men showed what they have to offer. Who do our politicos say comes out on top?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[06:22:38] TRUMP: Right down the road we have Jeb. Very small crowd. You know what's happening to Jeb's crowd, as you know right down the street? They're sleeping!

BUSH: And I have a proven conservative record; consistent, proven, conservative record. When no one was watching. Longtime, proven conservative record. Mr. Trump doesn't have a proven conservative record. He was a Democrat longer in the last decade than he was a Republican.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: All right. That was Donald Trump and Jeb Bush trading insults in dueling town halls only 15 miles apart in New Hampshire. Trump slammed Bush, as you heard, as low-energy. And Bush attacked Trump's conservative record.

So let's have fun with this and more with Jackie Kucinich. She's our senior politics editor from "The Daily Beast." And Errol Louis is CNN political commentator and political anchor at New York One.

Errol, he said, "They're sleeping!" That was such a funny line. But what's funny about it is, he got right to it. He took the podium. It wasn't the traditional town hall, whereby the audience begins by asking the candidate questions. He just sort of vamped, and he got right to the insults. I mean, do people find this refreshing?

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think they probably find it at least entertaining and maybe a little refreshing.

I mean, look, the reality is Trump is a master communicator who knows what master communicators know, which is that people may not remember what you say and they may not remember what you did, but they'll always remember how you made them feel. And so he creates an event. He creates a happening, something that you had to be there to really witness. And that's really what people are looking for.

I mean, I think probably the average voter, the real conservative voter, would love to have Jeb Bush's record but Donald Trump's presentation. Sort of merge them together.

CUOMO: That's a good way to put it. Someone used a good word the other day to me. He is, if nothing else, a catalyst, Trump. He has people talking. He has the party thinking about what they really want. He has everybody sharpening their elbows for a fight.

The question is, what do they wind up going with? Remember that number from our poll, Jackie: 58 percent of those polled in the GOP did not believe their best chance was with Trump. So there is opportunity for someone else.

What did you see in Jeb Bush last night? Is he bringing the game he needs to bring?

JACKIE KUCINICH, SENIOR POLITICS EDITOR, "THE DAILY BEAST": Well, there is a little bit of incredulousness with Jeb Bush right now. It's kind of like this -- "I'm actually losing to this guy?"

[06:25:03] But I think what Jeb Bush -- he's trying to look like the serious candidate, the adult candidate. That's why you hear him talking about his record. I mean, when you look at his record in Florida, he's kind of a policy wonk. So I think that's one of his strengths, and that's -- he's hoping that GOP voters are listening to the substance and aren't just looking at the shiny object right down the road.

CAMEROTA: Errol, here's the radical suggestion, and I'm going out on a limb, but I felt it last night. I felt it about 15 minutes into his town hall where I thought, "Huh, we've heard this before." He wasn't saying anything new. He wasn't breaking new ground. He was being vintage Trump. And I was thinking, "I wonder if there's a saturation level ahead?" Is that out of the question?

LOUIS: Well, it's not that it's out of the question so much as that, I mean, look, we remember from the campaign trail, and I heard many, many Barack Obama speeches. When he was at this early phase where it was an event, it was a happening, you were there just to be there. People would drive across several states just to hear him. And the substance of those speeches really as nothing to write home about, but the event itself really was. And he would just do it again and again and again.

And so I think this has worked. This has served Donald Trump very well. And I don't think we're going to -- you should expect to see it end any time soon.

Now, if he actually starts taking advice from some people and sort of maybe craft it a little bit, maybe sort of get a crescendo at the end, leave everybody happy at the end, maybe shorten it a little bit, if you're saying it started to drag in the middle, he could really come up with something. He's changing American politics, at least for this cycle. And if it works for him, we might see a lot more of it.

CUOMO: If we're teeing up propositions to get smacked down, I'll tee one up, as well.

Jackie, a supposition I have is that I believe Trump was different in our interview yesterday. It had nothing to do with the fact that he was sitting across from me.

LOUIS: Great questions.

CUOMO: Yes, the questions. He couldn't handle them. It was too much intellect.

He's a frontrunner now. He has the weight of expectation now. He has something to lose now. It's no longer everybody else's fault if it doesn't go his way. It would be, theoretically, his fault. And I felt that he was trying to present himself as more of a frontrunner, at least in the beginning, at least a little bit. Did you see any of that?

KUCINICH: I think his tone is different, but his words aren't different. He's still talking about taking the oil fields away from ISIS. And some of these other things that really, when you break it down, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It's a lot of rhetoric. It's a lot of -- flashy things, but it doesn't really appeal to a lot of people.

CUOMO: A lot of veterans on social media last night, coming back at him about the proposition that he loves wounded warriors but he's going to make more of them.

KUCINICH: He's going to send you back to Iraq. Yes.

CAMEROTA: Right.

KUCINICH: That is problematic.

CAMEROTA: Yes, I mean, and Errol, this is what I was just telling Chris that I find so interesting when he interviews Donald Trump, is that Chris gets into the nitty-gritty. Chris likes to do -- to drill down. And Donald Trump sort of stays at the surface. He's a lot of style sometimes over substance.

LOUIS: That's right.

CAMEROTA: And at what point do people demand more?

LOUIS: Well, I mean, they might not demand more at all. Take him, again, back to 2008. You have this guy who's relatively untested named Barack Obama, and he's saying, "Hope and change, hope and change."

The skeptics would say, "Change what? Hope for what? What are you talking about?" And, you know, a lot of voters didn't really want to get too deep into the weeds.

And so, you know, when Trump -- I mean, I heard your exchange with him as him sort of saying, "I'm writing some I.O.U.s. I'll build a wall. I'll tell you how later. I'll deport 11 million people. I'll tell you how later." And so people...

CAMEROTA: And you're saying that does work. Voters can be...

LOUIS: Of course it does.

CUOMO: Especially when you're not measured.

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: ... all very up to the ballot box.

CUOMO: Especially when you're not measured the way everybody else is. You know, he's getting the benefit of that right now. And he would say, justifiably so, I couldn't believe he called himself a politician in the interview.

CAMEROTA: That was new.

CUOMO: He was just talking about it for the purposes of this.

But Jackie, we've been saying it all along because it's true. He doesn't get measured to the standard of a typical politician, because people don't see him as one. So when he says, "I'm not going to do what they do," seems to be enough for now.

KUCINICH: Well, he also has a sort of fearlessness to his rhetoric. "I'm going to take on ISIS. I'm going to take on Mexico. I'm going to take on the pope." He's going to take on the pope. I mean, he really doesn't have a -- he doesn't...

CUOMO: "ISIS is coming for you," Jackie.

KUCINICH: Yes.

CUOMO: I couldn't believe he didn't say, "Hillary is coming for you." Substitute her in there. That is where he probably went a little bit too far last night. It will work with his base, Jackie, but saying that she has criminal problems, do we see any reason to believe that right now?

KUCINICH: You know, you're hearing a lot of Republican candidates speculate. I think that's one of the ways -- that's one of the places that Donald Trump is actually reflecting a lot of what the Republican field is. Maybe he's gone a little further with what he said, but I think you're hearing that a lot. And they're trying to really pin that on Hillary Clinton.

CAMEROTA: Jackie, Errol, thanks so much.

LOUIS: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Take care, you guys.

CUOMO: So, while there may have been a little bit of a different face, in terms of what he was talking about, if anything, he was more himself than ever in this interview. He doubled down on his contempt for Mexico and especially the American companies that are moving their operations there. listen to what he has to say to people like Nabisco and Ford.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: The United States, no tax, no nothing. Just come right across the border. The next thing you know, they'll have the illegals driving them right across the border. Take them in, drive them in. It's cheaper that way, OK?

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CUOMO: We have much more of our interview and what he says he'll do about those companies ahead. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)