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Clinton Apologizes for E-mail Scandal; Tough Concessions from Trump, Bush; Kentucky Clerk Released from Jail; E.U. Unveils Migrant Quota Plan; British Airways Plane Catches Fire on Las Vegas Runway. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired September 09, 2015 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I could have and should have done a better job. I'm sorry about that. I take responsibility.

[05:58:33] DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If I win, I will tell you something. A lot of different things will be happening in this country.

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't think Barack Obama has bad motives. I just think he's wrong on a lot of issues.

MIKE HUCKABEE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Kim Davis is free!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The reality is what law did she break?

KIM DAVIS, KENTUCKY LAW CLERK JAILED FOR FAILING TO ISSUE SAME- SEX MARRIAGE LICENSES: His people have rallied, and you are a strong people!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The pilots quickly aborted the takeoff.

JAY JENNINGS, PASSENGER: I opened up the cover of my window and just saw flames on the engine.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Passengers literally running for their lives.

ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We're running now with these migrants and refugees who just broke out of the holding area.

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Cafes are selling life jackets.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota and Michaela Pereira.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It's Wednesday, September 9, 6 a.m. in the east. So you want an apology from Hillary Clinton? Guess what? You've

got one. The Democratic front-runner telling ABC News, Facebook and others she is sorry. You think that ends it?

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Well, Clinton says she takes full responsibility for using a private e-mail server. This just a day after insisting she had nothing to apologize for, and she's not the only presidential hopeful making candid admissions.

CNN's coverage begins with senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny. What's the latest, Jeff?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good morning, Alisyn.

How many ways can you say I'm sorry? Hillary Clinton is now trying to find out, going further than she's ever gone before in talking about that private e-mail account she used while she was secretary of state.

Now, until now she's expressed regret but has stopped short of saying she was sorry for her actions. In an attempt to turn the page, though, and move on from this controversy that's shaken her campaign. She's now saying it directly, as she did last night to ABC News.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: I know it was allowed. I should have used two accounts, one for personal, one for work-related e-mails. That was a mistake. I'm sorry about that. I take responsibility. And I'm trying to be as transparent as I possibly can.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: Now only a few hours later, she reiterated this in a message to her supporters and on her Facebook page. She tried to explain even more, saying, "I know this is a complex story. I could have and should have done a better job answering questions earlier."

Now, one part of this new campaign strategy is to see more and hear more from Clinton. She's given more interviews in the last week than during the first five months of her campaign. In that ABC News interview, she grew emotional when asked about her mother, who died in 2011.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: She told me every day, "You've got to get up and fight for what you believe in, no matter how hard it is." And I think about her a lot. I miss her a lot. I wish she were here with me. And I remember that.

And I don't want to just fight for me. I don't -- I mean, I can have a perfectly fine life not being president. I'm going to fight for all the people like my mother who need somebody in their corner.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: Now, she's talking more about her mother than ever before on the campaign trail, to help tell the full story about her own biography. This is an intentional reminder to voters that she's not only a former first lady and part of a political dynasty.

Now in that Facebook message last night, she also said, "I'm not taking anything for granted." This is another sign that her candidacy, Chris, is in a far different place than only a few months ago.

CUOMO: And still a long way to go.

Jeff, thank you very much.

Candid concessions, as Alisyn said this morning, not just from Hillary Clinton, but other contenders that are in the spotlight. Jeb Bush taking issue with his own brother on the premiere of "The Late Show" with Stephen Colbert, and Donald Trump making a big move, saying that there are migrants that the U.S. should welcome to the U.S.

CNN's Athena Jones with more.

Athena, make sense of it for us. What was Jeb really trying to do and what was Donald Trump trying to do?

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.

Well, it seems like they're trying to appeal in a way that's unexpected to more of a larger crowd. It was a very unexpected response from Trump. He's also doing something else unusual today, holding a rally with another Republican candidate here at the Capitol.

Meanwhile, Jeb Bush is trying to show off his funny side and his fiscal side. All of this as the post-Labor-Day pre-debate push gets into full swing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STEPHEN COLBERT, HOST, CBS'S "THE LATE SHOW WITH STEPHEN COLBERT": Governor Jeb Bush.

JONES: Governor Jeb Bush making his late-night debut on the premiere of "The Late Show with Stephen Colbert."

COLBERT: In what ways do you politically differ from your brother, George?

BUSH: I'm obviously younger.

COLBERT: You're younger.

BUSH: Much better looking.

JONES: Zeroing in on his self-touted forte, the budget. BUSH: I think he should have brought the hammer down on the

Republicans when they were spending way too much. He didn't bring order, fiscal restraint. They call me Veto Corleone in Florida, because I vetoed 2,500 separate line items in the budget.

JONES: Later today, Bush is set to unveil his tax-reform plan during a speech in North Carolina, laying out the details in a new op- ed in "The Wall Street Journal," saying his task overhaul will unleash 4 percent economic growth.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Having trouble sleeping at night?

JONES: Meanwhile, Trump releasing yet another slam ad on Instagram Tuesday, doubling down on his attacks that Jeb Bush is, quote, "low energy."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Too much energy? Need some low energy?

BUSH: They have an HSA in some companies; some companies don't. I think the norm ought to be...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jeb, for all your sleeping needs.

JONES: Trump also plans to join forces with Ted Cruz later today, protesting President Obama's Iran deal. In his own op-ed in "USA Today," Trump blasts the deal, calling it, quote, "amateur hour." A sentiment he echoed Tuesday night on FOX News.

TRUMP: I will re-negotiate that deal, and I will make it -- and that's what I do. That's what I do in life.

JONES: Trump also weighing in on the European migrant crisis.

TRUMP: I wonder, you know, where all these people are coming from exactly and do you have people from ISIS in that group?

JONES: His response to the possibility of these migrants being welcomed in the U.S.? A stark difference from his tough talk on immigration.

TRUMP: I hate the concept of it, but on a humanitarian basis, with what's happening, you have to.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JONES: So unexpected words from Trump. As for that rally Trump and Ted Cruz are holding later today, it's rare to see rivals for a party's nomination come together for such an event.

[06:05:03] Meanwhile, Ben Carson, the retired brain surgeon who's been surging in the polls right alongside Trump, is being asked about a Carson/Trump ticket. His response? All things are possible -- Michaela.

PEREIRA: Ooh, very interesting. So much -- so many appearances before the September 16 debate. We're looking forward to it all. Thanks, Athena, for that rundown of everything.

Meanwhile, after spending five days in jail, could Kentucky clerk Kim Davis return to work today? Supporters, including GOP candidate Mike Huckabee gave Davis a bit of a rock-star treatment during her release on Tuesday. CNN's Martin Savidge is in Morehead, Kentucky, with all the latest -- Martin.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Morning, Michaela.

No doubt Kim Davis had a restful night for the first time since she was released from jail yesterday. And that was, you know, such a stunning turn of events. And nobody seemed more surprised than Kim Davis herself.

But the real question now is, what is she going to do?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SAVIDGE (voice-over): It was a stage fit for a presidential candidate, but it was embattled Rowan County clerk Kim Davis who stole the show, fresh out of jail and welcomed by cheers from hundreds of supporters.

DAVIS: I just want to give God the glory. His people have rallied. You are a strong people!

SAVIDGE: Davis went to jail for contempt of court after refusing to authorize all marriage licenses following the June Supreme Court decision on gay marriage. She said she was religiously opposed to having her name appear on a document for same-sex couples. She spent five days behind bars while support from Christian conservatives grew.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Bible trumps man's law!

JONES: The effort to free her drew two Republican candidates to her jail cell, Mike Huckabee and Ted Cruz, this despite the fact that Davis is a Democrat.

But even before they arrived, the judge that sent her to jail suddenly freed her on one condition: that she "shall not interfere in any way with the efforts of her deputy clerks who are issuing marriage licenses," some of them to same-sex couples.

Davis's attorney says she hasn't changed her position on same-sex marriage and hinted another legal showdown could be brewing.

MATT STAVER, FOUNDER, LIBERTY COUNSEL: She'll do her job good. She'll serve the people as they want her to serve. And she was elected. And she'll also be loyal to God, and she's not going to violate her conscience.

SAVIDGE: To many, this small-town Kentucky clerk has become a hero of her faith.

HUCKABEE: And I feel like she's shown more courage than most any politician I know and most every pastor I know. Because she's not only said something; she's been willing to put her life at risk.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SAVIDGE: Which is why we now stand outside of Kim Davis's office, waiting to see if she'll show up for work today. There's no guarantee that she will come in. But she will have to return at some point. And the next step of this drama will play out with the decision she makes of whether to issue, or not, marriage licenses -- Michaela.

PEREIRA: Very curious what some of her colleagues in that office have to say about the whole affair. Martin, thank you so much for that.

We should point out that GOP presidential candidate Mike Huckabee will actually join us in our 8 a.m. hour. We'll talk to him live about yesterday.

CAMEROTA: All right. We have so much to talk about. Let's bring back Jeff Zeleny and bring in CNN political commentator and Washington correspondent for "The New Yorker," Ryan Lizza.

Gentlemen, thanks so much for being here.

Ryan, let's start with Hillary Clinton. What we have heard from so many political pundits is that it's not about the contents of the e-mail, necessarily. We don't really know what was in those. It's about how she handled it. Now that she said, "I made a mistake, I am sorry about this, I should have used two e-mails," does this settle it?

RYAN LIZZA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think unfortunately, for the Hillary Clinton campaign, no. And the reason is, she is stuck in this process, a Washington process story where the e-mails will continue to be released. So there will be continued media interest in that.

She has to go testify before this Benghazi committee up on the hill, so there will be interest in that. She has other former staffers who are testifying, and one of them taking the fifth.

And there will be a -- and then, she has this Justice Department inquiry over the nature of whatever classified information may have been sent or received over that e-mail system. And that has not -- that has not ended.

So she's going to be dealing with and talking about this issue on regular intervals for quite a long time. I do think, though, by coming out and apologizing very clearly, it may take a little bit of the political pressure off, you know, from us in the media off, but the investigations are what will trap her in a continuing news cycle, and we're all going to be talking about it.

CUOMO: Jeff, doesn't this kind of justify her behavior to this point on this issue? She also said, "I should have taken questions sooner." That is obviously directed to the Zelenys and the Lizzas of the world.

[06:09:58] But, you know, because you have all these investigations going on and by saying sorry, no matter what context you put it in, no matter how tearful when discussing her mother and her pledge to help women like that, it seems like she did something wrong. And why would you give that to your opponents?

ZELENY: That's one of the things that has sort of held her back up until now for saying she's sorry. We've seen just in the last week or so saying, "I'm sorry for the confusion this has caused people." And that is the lawyerly answer. But that doesn't cut it when you're running for president.

So she finally has given in to say she's sorry, because she knows she'll be asked this every single time. What they're trying to do here is talk about this so much that people, A, maybe stop asking about it; and, B, are, you know, ready to move on from this.

But she's in a bit of a "can't win and can't lose" situation here, or "can't win" situation regardless of what she says.

But Ryan is right. Had she been more forthcoming in taking questions months ago, this could have been behind her. This is the constant criticism of people who admire Hillary Clinton, who really want her to be president. Is that it always takes so long to get to this point. It was less than a week ago when she sat down with Andrea Mitchell from NBC News and declined to say any of this.

So we can see the sort of strategy changing in real time here, and we'll see what these investigations bring, if anything. But I think she's gone a long way toward sort of turning the page, at least for now on this.

CAMEROTA: OK, let's move on to Kentucky. There was this incredible scene yesterday where one of the presidential candidates, former governor, Mike Huckabee, stood next to Kim Davis as she was released sort of triumphantly from jail.

What is Mike Huckabee's political play? I mean, we now that he has strong Christian beliefs that drive him to this, but politically, since this is not really where the country is, and the majority of the country supports gay marriage, what's he doing?

LIZZA: Well, I think it's pretty obvious. Mike Huckabee has been one of the Republican candidates who has stated clearly that he is going to make the Supreme Court decision on gay marriage a centerpiece of his campaign, that Republicans should not give up the fight.

And, you know, I don't -- I don't have to tell you guys that in the Iowa caucuses, that is a state where the Republican electorate is disproportionately made up of evangelical conservatives who agree with someone like Mike Huckabee on gay marriage.

And in a 17-candidate field where it's very hard to get attention, going down to Kentucky and doing this kind of event with Davis makes him stand out.

I think other Republicans, though, see this as not a winning issue, as you point out. The country has -- the opinion on this is becoming more settled. And in a general election, I don't think a lot of other Republicans want this to be an issue. But Huckabee is appealing to a certain slice of the Republican electorate that really still cares about gay marriage.

CUOMO: Right. But Jeff, you have to look at it from the penny- wise, pound foolish perspective, also, if he wants to be president of the United States. Doesn't it say something that only Ted Cruz wanted to join him down there? The kerfuffle about whether Cruz could get to the microphones or not by -- from the Huckabee staffer.

You know, this is not about whether or not it's OK. That's been settled. This really isn't about someone being forced to go to jail for their beliefs; it was her choice. She could have just decided to resign or do any of the different options that the judge gave her. Where's the high ground here?

ZELENY: Ryan is absolutely right. Although they were in Kentucky, they basically were saying, "Hey, Iowa, are you watching? Are you watching what we're doing here?"

So of course it is a short-term strategy in terms of appealing to those -- those Christian conservatives who are central to the Iowa caucuses, but even in Iowa, even among Republicans overall, Iowa has had gay marriage longer than many states have. And it is becoming settled in Iowa, as well. Some six in 10 Republican voters say, "Hey, we should move on."

But of course, it's the other four in 10 that are key to the support of the caucuses here.

But I think that, you know, there's no question that Governor Huckabee believes this and Ted Cruz believes this. But I think you also -- you know, serious presidential candidates don't go running to every sort of press conference around the country here. And I'm not sure how presidential that was.

CAMEROTA: All right. There you go. Jeff Zeleny, Ryan Lizza, thanks so much. Nice to see you guys.

LIZZA: Thanks.

CUOMO: So with all these people making new statements, we've given them opportunities to come on here and discuss the state of play and the issues that matter to you. We have a request out to Hillary Clinton to discuss her new position; to Jeb Bush to clarify what he's been saying about his brother and his very ambitious new tax plan that's not getting so much attention, because he talked about his brother -- and we're going to talk about that more -- and to Donald Trump, as well, because of what he's been saying about migrants. And he is the only one to accept.

So he will be on NEW DAY tomorrow in our 7 a.m. hour to explain his position on immigrants in the U.S. with what he just said, that the U.S. should let in some migrants because of how terrible the situation is for him. And we're going to have a very big how-to session on his bold promises for the country, how he's going to do it.

CAMEROTA: Look forward to hearing that.

[06:15:00] Also, one week from today, watch the CNN Republican presidential debate. It is Wednesday, September 16, at 6 and 8 p.m. Eastern. Set your dials.

PEREIRA: We want to turn to that migrant crisis that is now unfolding across Europe. The European Union unveiling a new plan for migrant quotas to provide shelter to the thousands of desperate refugees arriving at their borders.

We want to turn to CNN's international correspondent, Arwa Damon. She's live along the Serbia-Hungary border where thousands are forced to live in squalor, waiting for help -- Arwa.

DAMON: Yes, hi. And right now, we're with another group that actually broke out of the holding area, yet again. And they pushed their way through the police line. They were eventually caught or brought under control and are now waiting on the side of the road. They were promised that there would be buses arriving to transport them to the Austrian border.

Why do these breakouts keep on happening? Because people can't take the conditions they're having to wait in. And because, by the time they arrive here, they are mentally, physically, emotionally exhausted. And they just want to keep going.

This family right here, they are from Kobani, Syria. That is where, if you'll remember, a year ago, there were very fierce clashes with ISIS. This particular family tried to go back to Kobani after they had fled because they thought it was safe. But then ISIS launched a counter-attack about two months ago, and then they decided to leave.

This woman -- her name is Shidi (ph) -- in the red sweater, she actually gave birth when she arrived in Greece. She was pregnant in the dinghy. And then the minute they landed, she couldn't walk anymore. And she had to wait in Greece until she gave birth, and then walked. That baby, Miran (ph), a little girl, she is just 11 days old; and they made this entire journey. A big risk for them.

But that is because, Chris, they believe that, if they stayed back home, they would most certainly end up dead. And that's why they are taking this risk, because they want security; not just physical security, but they want to be able to secure a future for themselves and for their children.

CUOMO: And the situation is only getting worse in so many of the countries they're fleeing from. And you have been very forceful in saying that the difference between a refugee and a migrant may make sense on paper, but doesn't make sense in practicality for so many of those who you're meeting every day. Keep telling us the stories. We'll keep getting the message out for you. Thank you.

CUOMO: Now what a scene to tell you about that's unfolding on a runway in Las Vegas. A British Airways flight getting ready for takeoff erupts in flames. Take a look at the picture. A hundred and fifty-nine passengers, 13 crew all had to escape. We have CNN's Dan Simon, live in Vegas. He has the latest. What's going on now?

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Chris.

Well, the plane burst into flames as it began accelerating down the runway. This was the left engine that caught fire. As you can imagine, passengers were scrambling for safety. Some of whom were injured going down those emergency slides.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SIMON (voice-over): A terrifying image at the Las Vegas Airport, as thick black smoke could be seen pouring out of the Boeing 777, just moments after the pilots aborted takeoff. Witnesses describe a frantic situation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was just shouting to people, to run away from the flight, run as far as you can get.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tremendous explosion from behind.

SIMON: British Airways Flight 2276 bound for London Tuesday afternoon with 159 passengers and 13 crew members on board. You can see many running from the burning aircraft, authorities determining it was the left engine that caught fire.

JENNINGS: We were just gaining speed to take off and heard a big buzz. I opened up the cover of my window and just saw flames on the engine. We suddenly start -- we sat still for about a minute, just waiting to hear what to do.

SIMON: The pilots and air-traffic control showing professionalism as the frightening situation unfolds.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: May day, may day. Speedbird 2276. Request fire services.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Speedbird 2276, heavy fire services are on the way.

SIMON: The crew directed everyone to evacuate down the emergency slides. Fourteen people were taken to a nearby hospital, thankfully with only minor injuries. Fire crews racing to the scene in minutes and quickly putting out the flames.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SIMON: The passengers did spend the night in Las Vegas, the airline putting them up at a hotel. It's not clear when they'll be put on another flight. Some of them, of course, might be -- you know, they might have to talk to investigators. We know the NTSB is setting up a team to begin looking into how all this happened -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Scary stuff. And they do need answers. Dan, thanks so much.

Now, to Baltimore. The city of Baltimore is set to pay $6.4 million to the family of Freddie Gray. Gray died from traumatic spinal injuries last spring while in police custody. The payment to his loved ones expected to be approved today. Many city leaders praising the mayor's decision to compensate the family, calling it, quote, a healing offer. But the president of the Baltimore police union calls it premature and ridiculous.

[06:20:10] CUOMO: That Kentucky clerk, Kim Davis, she chose to go to jail. And a judge has now chosen to tell her to go home and get back to doing her job, which means not putting her religious beliefs on those applying for a marriage license. So is she a victim or an opportunist? Debate ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVIS: Keep on pressing. Don't let down, because He is here. He is worthy. I love you guys. Thank you so much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Is that a preacher? Was that a revival meeting? No, it's a public servant. That's the Kentucky clerk, Kim Davis, meeting big crowds waving crosses, many of them, supporting her for choosing to go to jail rather than allow gay marriage.

GOP presidential candidate was next to her, Mike Huckabee, by her side, supporting her, saying as we'll play for you, he would take her place in jail. Do I sound sarcastic? Yes. And here is why.

[06:25:03] What is the issue that is righteous in this situation? That's what we're here to discuss. Is she in the right? Or is she clearly not in the right as a public servant under the law? Let's discuss.

CNN political commentator, host of "The Ben Ferguson Show," guess what his name is? Ben Ferguson. And anchor for "The Blaze," Amy Holmes.

Amy...

AMY HOLMES, ANCHOR, "THE BLAZE": Yes.

CUOMO: ... not only are you an esteemed colleague within this business, but you were once in the notary business, in the business, essentially of selling marriages to people who wanted to marry. What is your perspective on this, as a person of faith yourself?

HOLMES: Well, I'm not a person of faith, but I was behind the counter as a notary public, where I certified marriages. And as I joke with people, that job made me think that the divorce rate ought to be a lot higher than it is with all the heterosexual couples that were coming through. As a public servant, it...

CUOMO: So you told them all not to do it?

HOLMES: Here's what I was going to say, Chris. As a public servant, it was my duty to certify marriage licenses, despite whatever were my personal convictions, my personal judgments about the people coming up to the counter. As a notary public, as a public official with King County marriage licensing, that was my duty.

CUOMO: Right. You were a public official.

HOLMES: Yes.

CUOMO: This is what you were supposed to do.

HOLMES: Yes.

CUOMO: Nowhere in the job description did it say, "if you like it"?

HOLMES: No. And believe me, there were couples that showed up who didn't know each other's middle names, didn't know each other's birth dates, that flirted with me, the other guy at the counter. I mean, as I say...

CUOMO: Wasn't your job to judge?

HOLMES: No.

CUOMO: Ben Ferguson, even you...

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.

CUOMO: ... have said, "Well, she shouldn't have gone to jail." That's her fault. She chose to go to jail to, perhaps, some suggest, create the exact scene that took place outside that jail." Where is the high ground for her in this?

FERGUSON: Well, I don't -- look, here's the big thing. When she talks about her religious freedom, she did not like her actual name being on a marriage license that went against her religious beliefs.

CUOMO: Then resign.

FERGUSON: That is, I would say, at the core -- at the core, that's what she referred to as religious freedom. That's why you see Ted Cruz and Mike Huckabee down there.

I think it was a little bit ridiculous and extreme to throw her in jail for that.

CUOMO: They didn't throw her in jail. They didn't throw her in jail. FERGUSON: No, they threw her in jail. She didn't get -- she

didn't walk up to jail and say, "Hi, I'm here. I would like to be in jail for five days." Let's be candid.

CUOMO: It's not a matter of opinion. The judge said, "You have several choices here, A, B, C, D." She chose D, which is go to jail if you fail to comply. He did not impose it on her. She chose it.

HOLMES: And...

FERGUSON: Well, and she says...

HOLMES: And Ben, she also...

FERGUSON: But she said, "I don't" -- let's just be clear.

HOLMES: Hold on, Ben.

FERGUSON: Hold on a second, hold on a second. Let's be clear. When you give the options that she was given...

CUOMO: Right.

FERGUSON: ... she says the other options went against her religious freedom. So by default, jail was the option that was left from that judge.

They now have allowed her to get out of jail. Whether or not she will go back because this is where I would say, OK, I supported you early on in this. If you go back to work, your name is no longer on that marriage license, and then you still continue to refuse to give out these marriage license -- and it seems from her attorney's perspective, that there's a good chance that scenario may actually happen and play out. That's when I would say, "Now this has gone beyond your personal beliefs. This is going on a crusade."

If you want to be a politically elected official, then go run for an actual political. But the office that she's in, really, in my opinion and most others, is a nonpolitical position. Yes, you're elected...

HOLMES: Right.

FERGUSON: ... but it's more of a service industry, more than it is a political opinion industry...

HOLMES: Ben...

FERGUSON: ... where she is.

HOLMES: Ben -- Ben, I couldn't agree with you more. She was a functionary. She had the weight of the government and the weight of the state behind her. And federal law, as decided by the Supreme Court, legalized same-sex marriage across 50 states. It was her duty as a public servant to follow the law. Let me give you some hypotheticals. Kim Davis has been married

multiple times. What if she had gone to a marriage county -- a marriage license counter where the person behind said, "I'm an orthodox Catholic, and I'm not willing to certify your second through fourth marriages"? She wouldn't be very happy with that.

What if the person behind the counter says, "My religion compels me to support polygamy. So I'm going to give out marriage license to the same person over and over and over again"? Clearly, we wouldn't support that.

FERGUSON: And that's Pandora's box here.

HOLMES: Kim Davis had the option...

FERGUSON: Or if someone said, "I'm not going to give a driver's license, because of my religious beliefs, to a women, because my beliefs are that women should never drive." And there are people that believe that.

HOLMES: Ben, I think we're on the same page.

FERGUSON: That doesn't -- you don't get to do that.

HOLMES: But Ben, she had a fourth option, and she still has a fourth option, which is to resign. She doesn't need to participate in this if she feels so sincerely that it impinges on her religious ethics and her religious morality. She can resign. She can join an organization where she advocates for traditional marriage. She can run for political office where she advocates for traditional marriage and try to find people who agree with her.

FERGUSON: Amy, that's my point.

CUOMO: I'll give you 80,000 reasons she didn't do that.

FERGUSON: That's my point. Well, and that's...

HOLMES: Well, that's again -- I admire Kim Davis for having the, you know, fortitude to go to jail, based on her religious faith.

But I would also admire her if she was willing to give up the 80 grand that she's earning at the taxpayer expense to not give out marriage licenses, as she's required under the law.

CUOMO: So let's do this. Ben, Amy...

FERGUSON: Yes.

CUOMO: ... let's see what happens next.