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GOP Candidates Duke It Out Over Immigration; Admitting Syrian Refugees Pose Threat To Homeland?; Kentucky Clerk Speaks Out On First Day Back To Work. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired September 14, 2015 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Just two days until CNN hosts the second Republican debate, Donald Trump and Ben Carson pulling away from the field. In a new "Washington Post"/ABC News poll, take a look, Trump sporting a commanding leading with 33 percent of the vote, 13 points ahead of Carson.

Meanwhile Hillary seems like she keeps backing up, falling below 50 percent in the poll for the first time. In a hypothetical matchup against Trump, it is now a statistical dead heat.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Listen to this, three teenagers arrested in Arizona for shooting rocks at cars and pedestrians using a slingshot. Maricopa County police say the 18-year-olds admitted to shooting at more than a dozen people and cars over the weekend.

They say the attacks are not related to a recent string of freeway shootings along a stretch of Interstate 10 running through the Phoenix metro area.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Here's something generating tons of buzz on social media, it's an apology more than three decades later. The Miss America organization is formally apologizing to singer, actress, Vanessa Williams on stage at the Miss America pageant.

She resigned her crown in 1984 after "Penthouse" magazine published authorized nude photos. After this year's crowning moment, Miss Georgia, 21-year-old Betty Cantrell is the new Miss America.

CUOMO: All right, back to the race for 2016, no issue has attracted more controversy than immigration. Started from Donald Trump's very first speech and it is resonating. We'll show you poll numbers that the impact on voters, what they think of this issue, how important it is and what they want.

Let's discuss those options with Congressman Henry Cuellar, a Democrat from Texas. He is on the House Appropriations Committee and a member of the Blue Dog Coalition. He joins us now.

Congressman, thank you for joining us. Before we deal with the race specifically, let's deal with an issue that's probably not getting enough attention, but it strikes the same chord.

What we're watching in Europe right now is just the beginning. These migrants, refugees, coming from broken down societies, the United States needs to figure out what its role will be, yes, there's been some talk. Many would argue not nearly enough. What is your take?

REPRESENTATIVE HENRY CUELLAR (D), TEXAS: It almost -- it's very similar to what we saw down here in South Texas where I'm at with the people from Central America. What we're seeing here is their societies are having trouble, in that place they're having war.

And South and Central America you have Akon, the drug cartels, problems with the economy. Anytime you have that, look at the history of the world, you'll see people moving around because of war or economic reasons.

We saw this in South Texas. We're seeing it over there. Now after accepting some folks you're seeing countries are starting to clamp down saying we're not going to accept any more.

Until we take care of the root problems you'll continue having people trying to get out of Syria and Iraq and other places. They want to do things to protect their families.

[07:35:03] CUOMO: Are you surprised your party hasn't stepped up more, for two reasons, one, the need is obvious as you're saying, but also it would counter the rhetoric coming out some members of the GOP presidential field, specifically Donald Trump, who turned this issue to the negative on immigrants.

And somewhat ignores the humanitarian nature of it that you're discussing now. Donald Trump himself said that the nature of what he's watching in coverage of the European crisis made him think differently, that those migrants, refugees, demand American help and many should be here.

Should you be pushing this issue more, not just because it matters but because it would matter to your party specifically in terms of changing the narrative on people running for a better life?

CUELLAR: You know, certainly, I think from the Democratic Party, I think we can be more outspoken, even the Republican Party, I really don't think this is a Democrat/Republican issue. We have humanitarian issue like we saw last year in South Texas. We're seeing that in Europe.

The countries in Europe were slower in reacting. Now we're seeing what happens we saw the same thing similar, our United States government reacted very slow last summer also. I find a lot of comparisons, different type of situations but at the same time very similar and, again, there's going to be a lot of questions.

What is the U.S. going to do? What is our policy? Are we going to try to take care of the root problems we're seeing in those countries? And until we take care of some of the root problems, which is more difficult to do, you'll have people flow out of countries to find a better life for their families.

CUOMO: Back here to the domestic issue of immigration, let's look at some of the poll numbers we have from our new CNN/ORC poll released this morning, illegal immigration, 39 percent, in June 2011, 29 percent. The issue is, without question, now high on the agenda.

What do people want? Should the U.S. build a fence, 52 yes, 47 no. Should children born in the U.S. to parents in the country illegally should they not be granted automatic citizenship? Yes, 50 percent.

So they're split on something that you could argue constitutionally is a nonissue. That tells you people are paying attention and they want to see things that are done to keep people out. And not let them be citizens. What's your reaction?

CUELLAR: If you look at the history of immigration in the united states, there's always this type of rhetoric and no matter how ugly it can get, we've seen it throughout history. We've seen this at different times.

One of the reasons we have the 14th Amendment, one of the reasons the Supreme Court made a decision in 1898 dealing with people born here in the United States. We're talking about the Chinese at that time.

We've seen this type of rhetoric over and hopefully the more calm, reasonable voices will come out. People usually try to find a simple solution, like putting up a fence or a wall. I live on the border and I think a wall is a 14th Century solution to a 21st Century problem.

We just can't just wall ourselves, the whole U.S. We have to look at what are the root problems we have in the country and work with those countries. We can't be the police for the whole world, but there are a lot of things that we can do to work on addressing those issues. Bottom line is --

CUOMO: Congressman -- go ahead, finish your point.

CUELLAR: Bottom line is, trump and other folks have been able to tap into the anger and frustration of the American public. He's been able to tap the resentment that's out there. That's probably one of the reasons he's higher in the poll numbers right now.

CUOMO: We had the major face of the Donald Trump camp say the conventional wisdom is wrong. So we'll see what happens. Congressman Cuellar, thank you very much. Please let us know what happens with helping the migrants and the refugees abroad from the U.S. hand. Take care.

CUELLAR: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: OK, Chris. Let's talk about what's going on in Kentucky at this hour. County Clark Kim Davis returns to work. We're about to hear from her live. These are live pictures outside of that courthouse. So if a same-sex couple applies for a marriage license this morning, will she issue one? We'll bring you what she has to say, live.

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[07:43:36]

PEREIRA: The Kentucky County clerk who was jailed for refusing to issue same-sex marriage licenses is set to return to work this morning. She is about to speak live. You can see a live shot outside the courthouse in Moorehead, Kentucky. We'll bring those comments to you.

Just to update, Davis was ordered by a judge not to interfere with issuing marriage licenses. Will she follow that ruling or will she continue to defy it? Joining us now is Jeffrey Toobin, CNN senior legal analyst and former federal prosecutor.

While we wait for a statement from Kim Davis, the clerk, America's best known -- arguably best-known clerk, what do you think will happen today if she defies the order, what happens? She's coming out now. Let's listen in and see what she has to say.

KIM DAVIS, CONTROVERSIAL KENTUCKY CLERK: Good morning. I'm here before you this morning as I return to work to say that I love my Lord Jesus. I love all people and I love my job. I want to continue to serve all three as I have tried to do until now.

Since January of this year, I have been asking the governor, the Kentucky legislature and more recently the judge for one simple thing, an accommodation for my religious beliefs regarding marriage that would allow me to serve the citizens of Brown County without violating my conscience.

My name or official title on the marriage certificate points to the same person, me, Kim Davis.

[07:45:06] To affix my name or authoritative title on a certificate that authorizes marriage that conflicts with God's definition of marriage as a union between one man and one woman violates my deeply held religious convictions and conscience.

For me, this would be an act of disobedience to my God. A simple accommodation I have proposed is to remove my name and title as the clerk of Brown County completely off the marriage license.

These licenses could be issued under another authority, including perhaps the Commonwealth of Kentucky or Governor Bashir himself. If these needed to be recorded in a clerk's office like a vehicle registration, a lien or judgment, that could be done.

That doesn't raise a conflict of conscience because then we as clerks are not the authorizer of the license. Because my pleas for a modest accommodation have been refuse or not acted upon, I have been required to do that which my conscience forbids, as a result, I have spent six days in jail because I could not abandon my faith.

I thank the Lord that Judge Bening released me from jail last Tuesday, but today as I return to work, my simple request from the accommodation has gone unheard. Whether I personally issue the license or whether one of my deputy issues it, the result is the same.

The license is issued under the authority of Kim Davis, county clerk. Besides my conscience, there is a real need for the legislature to address Kentucky's marriage laws. The president of the Senate stated himself and told the court that the marriage laws are shredded.

The statute forbids issuance of a marriage license to someone not expressly authorized by statute to receive one. Even if a court strikes down a law, it cannot create a new statute. That must be done by the legislature.

To issue a license to a person that is not authorized to receive it, under the statute, is a direct violation of law. This, too, needs to be addressed by the legislature.

I'm here before you this morning with a seemingly impossible choice that I do not wish on any of my fellow Americans, my conscience or my freedom.

My conscience or my ability to serve the people that I love, obey God or a directive that forces me to disobey God, even when there are reasonable accommodations available. I have thought and prayed very hard about what to do.

The decisions I have made in this case and the decisions I will continue to make in this case are mine and mine alone. I don't want to have this conflict. I don't want to be in the spotlight and I certainly don't want to be a whipping post.

I am no hero. I'm just a person who's been transformed by the grace of God and who wants to work, be with my family. I just want to serve my neighbors quietly without violations my conscience.

And so this morning, I am forced to fashion a remedy that reconciles my conscience with Judge Bening's orders. Effective immediately and until an accommodation is provided by those with the authority to provide it, any marriage license issued by my office will not be issued or authorized by me.

I want the whole world to know, be no mistake about it, if my deputy clerks, who do not have my authorization or the authority, they don't have my authority to initial any license whatsoever, I love my deputy clerks.

I hate that they have been caught in the middle. If any of them feels they must issue an unauthorized license to avoid being thrown in jail, I understand their tough choice and I will take no action against them, however, any unauthorized license that they issue will not have my name, my title or my authority on it.

Instead, the license will state that they are issued pursuant to a federal court order. Judge Bening indicated last week that he was willing to accept altered marriage license even though he was not certain of their validity.

I, too, have great doubts whether the license issued under these conditions are even valid. This is why, once again, I urge Governor Bashir, the legislature, and the court to intervene.

They have the authorization and the authority to provide these types of accommodations and there's no reason why they cannot do so. Are we not a big enough, a loving enough and a tolerant enough state to find a way to accommodate my religious convictions?

[07:50:08] While my case may be the most visible right now, there are millions of others out there in the private and public sector who face and are in the same position. They also need reasonable accommodations. I urge everyone to remain civil and peaceful.

I pray that our dialogue remains civil and respectful because I love the lord, and I love all people. I harbor no ill will by nine. I love everyone. Because I have been transformed by the love and forgiveness of my Lord Jesus Christ, I love every person.

I love you all because He first loved me. Today, I put my faith and my trust in God and God alone. Thank you.

PEREIRA: There is a lot to unpack with Jeffrey Toobin. You heard what she has to say. She is going to defy the order from the judge.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: I think that's what she said. It was a lengthy word salad, and I couldn't quite unpack all of it. I think the gist seems to be that she will prevent her deputy clerks from issuing licenses to same-sex couples, which she objects to on religious grounds. That is precisely what the judge said had to happen.

CUOMO: I think she hedged. If my deputies want to do it because they don't have my conscience, I'm not going to do anything. It won't have my name.

CAMEROTA: I heard, they won't be legitimate -- without my name, they won't be legitimate.

TOOBIN: It may be that she will allow the deputy clerks to proceed and the courts will decide whether the marriages are legitimate. I think Chris may be right, that she is hedging to a certain extent, in that she is saying she will not do anything, but she will not stop her deputy clerk.

PEREIRA: She's asking for her name to be removed from this. Right now in Kentucky, the state law says that it rests solely on the county clerk to issue the licenses. But they have the authority. Only the legislature has the authority to transfer the authority. That's not going to come until January, right?

TOOBIN: Again, unfortunately, we have to get a little bit into the weeds of Kentucky law on this. As I understand it from other people, that a deputy clerk's signature on a marriage license is legitimate, and you don't need the specific say so of the clerk itself.

CUOMO: We're mixing -- we're not mixing. We're missing the point. Jeffrey, when the Supreme Court says that this is now the law of the land, do you need legislation to back that up or is that enough?

TOOBIN: That's enough.

CUOMO: The Kentucky statute when it talks about religious accommodations, it talks about a burden. Has any court recognized a burden to Kim Davis, an elected official to do this in this situation?

TOOBIN: Not at all. Not yet. The case may yet come through the courts. We've had these cases, as folks know, about wedding photographers.

CUOMO: Mike Huckabee said it the other day. Show me a law that says in Kentucky you can have same-sex marriage. It's what the Supreme Court said. Isn't that perverting the truth?

TOOBIN: There were lots of laws on the books, 19 different states that said you can't have racial marriage before. Those laws became invalid after the Supreme Court, same thing here.

CAMEROTA: Couldn't the governor take her name off? I know it's a special accommodation, but wouldn't that solve it?

TOOBIN: I don't think so. The governor has to act pursuant to an authorization that she has. That is not there. She simply -- we're spending a lot of time talking about Kim Davis' rights. The other rights here are the rights of the same-sex couples, which have been vindicated by the Supreme Court. They have a right to get married and she, as a public official, has to accommodate that right.

CUOMO: Let's take a break. Kim Davis says she's not going to have her name on the licenses. We'll talk about what's going to happen next. Stay with us.

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[07:55:00]

CUOMO: A new poll shows Trump and Carson getting more than 50 percent of the vote among Republicans. Another poll shows that Hillary Clinton is slipping among Democrats. So what about the people who are supposed to be winning this race? What's going on here? We have new numbers and more on what Kim Davis just said in Kentucky, ahead.

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