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New Day

Eight Dead, Five Missing in Utah Flash Floods; California's Valley Fire Spreads to Three Counties; Countdown to Tomorrow's CNN GOP Debate. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired September 15, 2015 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You can hear the screams from shocked residents, stunned by the rushing water.

[07:00:06] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Whoa!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What's happening right now?

LAH: Heavy rain falling in the mountains above the canyon town earlier in the day caused the river to rise rapidly, catching onlookers off-guard.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Whoa. It's starting to slide.

LAH: Watch this video of rescue crews racing to save a family from a car, moments from being swept away.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They're getting everybody out.

LAH: Children pulled quickly from the car windows.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) the dam.

LAH: The flood so strong, trees uprooted by the current pile up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's pretty powerful.

LAH: A search is still under way for several people. After two vehicles carrying a total of 16, parked to watch the flood, were swept away by the intense rush of water. At least eight have been found dead. All of the victims, mothers and small children. The youngest just 4 years old.

KEVIN BARLOW, ASSISTANT FIRE CHIEF: There's still active floodwaters and very dangerous, very treacherous. The banks are caving off. A more significant flood than we've had for quite some time.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAH: Back live here now.

Again, about a mile downstream from where those cars were swept away, you can see people actually digging with shovels. And the people in the foreground with their backs to us, they are members of the community that have been holding vigil here throughout the night, we are told, from people who have seen them.

This is a very small community, a community that is home to the FLDS religious sect, a very tight community and one tonight that -- this morning at least, is praying for a miracle -- Michaela.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: A miracle indeed. All right, Kyung, thank you for that update.

Meanwhile, water would be such a blessing right now for the fire crews battling wildfires in Northern California. The Valley Fire, which began just on Saturday, has become the most destructive wildfire of the season. It has already spread to three counties.

CNN's Dan Simon is live in Middletown, California, with the latest.

Looking at the charred remains behind you of all of those homes and -- it's just terrifying.

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Michaela, you know, the severity of this situation is becoming more clear. You have 600 homes destroyed in this fire alone. That statistic itself makes this the worst wildfire not just in California but along the entire West Coast for this wildfire season.

We were driving around, and we happened to find another neighborhood that has been destroyed. You can see, once again, the cars and the homes that have been destroyed, probably three or four homes just on this street. It's just endless devastation.

At this point, Michaela, we know of one fatality, and the situation regarding this woman's death is absolutely heartbreaking. This was a 72-year-old woman who was disabled. She had multiple sclerosis. Her name is Barbara McWilliams. And her caregiver, who wasn't home at the time, she alerted authorities and said that McWilliams needed help. But by the time authorities got there, her home was already fully engulfed. Just a terrible situation.

We know that more people are unaccounted for. So the chances that the death toll will rise, unfortunately, are probably pretty good.

We'll send it back to Alisyn.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Dan, thanks so much for that update.

Well, the make-or-break Republican debate just one day away now. Donald Trump passing on the prep work last night to hit the campaign trail. Instead, he energized a big Dallas crowd with his calls to build a wall along the Mexican border.

Well, hundreds of Latinos outside the rally were not happy. CNN's Athena Jones is live in Simi Valley, California.

Give us the latest, Athena.

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn. Well, last night was quintessential Donald Trump. He used his trademark fiery and controversial rhetoric to talk about illegal immigration while attacking his critics. And the crowd in Dallas seemed to love it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JONES (voice-over): Just hours away from the CNN GOP debate, the front-runner shrugging off mounting attacks from his rivals.

TRUMP: I hear they're all going after me. Whatever. Whatever.

JONES: Donald Trump boasting about his 13-point lead to a crowd of 18,000.

TRUMP: We are killing it.

JONES: And none of his competitors were off-limits.

TRUMP: Carly is giving me a little bit of a hard time, even though her poll numbers are horrible.

Ben Carson, he's a nice man. I think he's in second place.

You have Jeb Bush, governor of Florida. You have a sitting senator in Florida, Marco Rubio. And the poll comes out the other day, Trump is leading in Florida.

JONES: Again, striking a heavy on style, light-on-substance approach, the billionaire candidate neglected to talk policy Monday night, instead claiming success with women voters.

TRUMP: I'm surging with women. I have such respect for women.

JONES: Though he also highlighted his controversial comments about FOX News anchor Megyn Kelly.

TRUMP: We're going to have so many victories that at some point they're just going to be coming out of your ears. Though I have to be careful what I see about coming out of somebody's ears. I have to be careful.

[07:05:18] JONES: Inside, cheers on a hot-button issue, immigration.

TRUMP: We have to end this sanctuary cities crap fast.

The whole subject of anchor babies, we didn't say that somebody could be pregnant for nine months, come across the border, have a baby; and now it's ours, and we have to take care of the baby forever.

JONES: While outside, hundreds of Latinos protested Trump's harsh rhetoric on the issue, marching under the slogan "Dump the Trump."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His words have hurt many people.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have to respect each other. We're human beings, and we're here to stay.

JONES: Now the big question remaining: Will Trump tweak his strategy before taking center stage at Wednesday night's debate?

HUGH HEWITT, HOST, "THE HUGH HEWITT SHOW": He's had the most television training of any candidate in the modern political era. He's a highly skilled television professional. So he's not going to change that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JONES: I've got to say I agree with Hugh Hewitt there. It doesn't seem like Trump has any plans to change his approach heading into tomorrow night. We'll next hear from him later today when he delivers a speech on national security to veterans aboard a retired battleship -- Chris.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Athena, thank you very much.

We have a great guest for you right now. He knows many of the candidates from his time in Congress. He also knows what it's like to be anti-establishment before it was so cool, like it is now. Former Republican senator from Oklahoma, Tom Coburn.

Senator, pleasure to have you here.

TOM COBURN (R), FORMER SENATOR FROM OKLAHOMA: Good morning. Great to be with you.

CUOMO: It is not new for you to hear about going after the culture that's going on in D.C., trying to change from within. What do you think of the tone of the GOP side of the race right now?

COBURN: Well, one, Chris, I haven't watched it very much. Because I think we're way too early for me.

CUOMO: Is it just the timing or is it -- is there another aspect that turns you off?

COBURN: Well, I think it's way too early for us. I mean, if you look historically, people that are ahead at this time usually aren't ahead when we get down in spring of next year. So to me, it's early.

I think what you ought to do, and why you see some out there like Carson and Trump and others, is -- the reason they have votes is because they're appearing authentic. And you know, that's the real deal. It's not about knowing everything. It's about what do you feel, how do you feel about it, and can you express your inner feelings in a way that's not politically correct but still careful to not judge other people?

CUOMO: Is it sounds good versus works well, though? In that analysis, if somebody goes down into D.C., doesn't know the system, doesn't know what's going on, surrounds themselves with the smartest people in the world who, I guess, presumably, would know the system, do you think they could be effective? COBURN: Yes, I do. But I think what you have to do is you have to

fix the real problems, not what appear to be the problems. That's one of the reasons I left the Senate.

CUOMO: What are real problems that we're not hearing about?

COBURN: The No. 1 people the most people in the Senate and the House are career politicians, and that they're conflicted over doing the right thing for the country versus the right thing for the re- election.

And the same is true of leadership. Leadership is going to do what helps them maintain majorities. So -- and what gets lost in that is the fact that the American people's needs, wants and desires are -- take second place.

And so why are we not addressing right now in this presidential debate the fact that Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, federal employees' retirement, military retirement, all are going bankrupt. We don't have the money to pay for them.

Last year, for example, CBO and OMB, Congressional Budget Office and Office of Management and Budget, said our deficit was $480 billion. But we also added $4.6 trillion in unfunded liabilities. So we actually accumulated $5 trillion worth of debt. And we're to the point now where every taxpayer is on the hook for a million bucks. Every taxpayer.

And I just noticed yesterday what was 106,000 for American family on publicly held debt. So why aren't we fixing the real problems?

CUOMO: Because they're too hard to deal with.

COBURN: No, they're not too hard.

CUOMO: They don't sound -- doesn't sound good. You just depressed me. I want to be passionate. I want to be -- you have to capture my imagination. That's what makes me like you as a candidate. Don't tell me how bad things are.

COBURN: No, it's not about -- it's about let's solve the problems and there's not a problem we can't solve if we do it together. But we can't keep lying to the American people about where we are.

CUOMO: Then why is nobody in the field talking about this?

COBURN: Well, Chris Christie is a little bit. They're wanting to get elected more than they're wanting to fix the problem.

CUOMO: But that's the system, right?

COBURN: Well, here's the problem with it. They're going to have -- these things aren't changing. They're getting worse every year. If you don't talk about it during the political campaign, you're never going to get the political will of the country to fix it.

[07:10:02] CUOMO: You'll have no mandate?

COBURN: Right.

CUOMO: So this debate tomorrow night, so you have the whole gamut. You know a lot of the people in there. And you know the woman in there, Carly Fiorina. Looking at what you said about people in the race, you seemed to say the most unqualified positive things about Carly Fiorina. Is that true? And if so, why?

COBURN: Well, I just know her. I know her heart. I know she's authentic and sincere.

CUOMO: Do you think it is silly to ask the question as to whether or not she can stand toe to toe with these guys on the stage tomorrow

COBURN: Yes, I think that's a silly question.

CUOMO: You think that's not even -- she's got as good a chance of shining as anybody?

COBURN: Absolutely.

CUOMO: Why?

COBURN: She's smart, capable. Has worked her way up from a very low position to a very high position. She's experienced toughness in terms of her business dealings. She's experienced success and failures. I'm not endorsing anybody in the race, because I think it's way too early. You're going to see a lot of gaffes come in the next few months.

CUOMO: Do you think that, among the outsiders, because as you said, that's who's catching the imagination right now: Donald Trump, Dr. Ben Carson, Carly Fiorina, less so in the polls but more in the media. Do you think she's the best out of the three of them in terms of who can do it? Excuse me.

COBURN: I don't know. I don't know -- I don't know the others well enough to know that. An answer to that. What I do know is she's not afraid to take on a problem, and -- but she'll never -- it will never get fixed in Washington. What is happening to our country is never going to get fixed in Washington.

CUOMO: Where does it get fixed?

COBURN: it's going to get fixed through a convention of states where we call a convention and we...

CUOMO: A constitutional type convention?

COBURN: No. Well, it's called a convention of states. There's a big difference between a constitutional convention and a convention of states. A convention of states is very specific about what we do.

We force a balanced budget amendment under generally accepted accounting principles. We put term limits on members of Congress and other federal officials. And we cause them to limit the scope and jurisdiction of the federal government, more in line with the enumerated powers, Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution.

CUOMO: Intriguing but what would be the authority?

COBURN: The authority is already in the Constitution in Article 5.

CUOMO: So convention of states, you would harness the power of the constitutional principle, bring the states together, create a quorum and then pass laws that have to be filed by the federal government?

COBURN: Very high bar. You have to get 34 to get to a convention. You have to have 38 to pass anything. So it's not a reckless approach. It's a very smart approach, because Washington's never going to give up power. And they're never going to fix things.

CUOMO: You think the states could do it better? You think you could get them...

COBURN: Well, I think the states as a group want to have their power restored, which has been taken away. I think Congress as a group would like to have their power back, which they've given away to the president.

You know, the fact is bureaucracies write most of the laws in this country, and they're never held accountable by our elected representatives. That needs to change.

CUOMO: Now, you're looking at your party, the GOP. Yes, it's early, but do you believe that Donald Trump is the legitimate face of the GOP right now? He is leading in every poll by a yawning measure.

COBURN: I just can't answer that for you, because I was never a legitimate face of the GOP. I don't know what that is.

What I know is, most Americans don't want us to throw away $400 billion a year, which we are. Most Americans want to get less government, not more. Most Americans love the social systems that we have but want to make sure they're secure. So they have to be changed if we're going to keep them. Most Americans want their freedom more than they want Big Brother telling them what to do.

CUOMO: Let's end on this just as an intriguing idea for people as they are considering these candidates early on. Less government, not more. Less government meaning what? Less defense? No, people want more defense. Less -- you know, the Wall Street guys say they want less regulation, but they want their bailouts and their corporate welfare laws.

COBURN: Sure.

CUOMO: So what does that mean, less government?

COBURN: Less government means that you don't have 212 science, technology, engineering, math programs all independent, half of them -- half of them run through the Pentagon. Think about that: 212 separate federal programs for science, technology, engineering, math. We should have one. It should be efficient. It should be -- have metrics on it, should be measured. Are we successful at educating kids in those areas? How in the world did we get 212?

And I can give you 57 school teacher training programs run by the federal government. And most of them not in the Department of Education. How did that happen?

It happened because members of Congress wanted to look good at home, so they pass a bill, doing something and create a new program. And each one of these wasteful programs has a constituency. So members of Congress aren't going to get rid of them. I tried for years to get rid of all these things. And couldn't get any help from Republicans or Democrats.

CUOMO: So take a breather, get back in the game. We need you in there, Senator Coburn.

COBURN: Good to see you.

CUOMO: It's a pleasure to see you.

COBURN: Thank you.

CUOMO: All right. Well, you heard the senator laying out what really matters. You think you're going to hear about it tomorrow night? That's the big time, the CNN Republican presidential debates starting at 6 p.m. Eastern. Then you've got the primetime event, 11 candidates on the stage. There they is -- 8 p.m. You're not going to want to miss this high-stakes debate from the Reagan Presidential Library, which has been turned into Thunderdome in Simi Valley, Mick.

[07:15:09] PEREIRA: You better get a power nap, my friend.

All right. We have some breaking news this morning. New threats out of North Korea, the regime claiming they're ready to use nuclear weapon against the U.S. and other foes at any time if they pursue reckless and hostile policies. The statement also claimed that North Korea has been improving its nuclear arsenal in quality and quantity. South Korean officials say they are looking into the matter.

CAMEROTA: Malcolm Turnbull, sworn in overnight as Australia's new prime minister a day after Tony Abbott was ousted in a Liberal Party coup. The 60-year-old Turnbull had been the country's communications minister. In his final remarks, Abbott took a parting shot at the media, accusing them as acting as, quote, "the assassin's knife."

CUOMO: Ooh.

More children than ever are getting alcohol poisoning from ingesting liquid hand sanitizer. Yes. Poison control hotlines across the country are reporting a 400 percent increase since 2010, not in crazy teens, in kids under 12.

PEREIRA: Oh, no. CUOMO: The amount of alcohol in hand sanitizer ranges. It goes from 45 to 95 percent. The problem is that's up to eight times more than most beer, wine, really just about anything.

Officials say be particularly careful with the fruit-scented varieties. Why? The obvious. Children find them more attractive.

CAMEROTA: Right. I mean, you know, kids aren't trying to get intoxicated.

PEREIRA: No.

CAMEROTA: They're just licking their strawberry-flavored hands.

PEREIRA: Never occurred to me.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

PEREIRA: You have to be so vigilant as a parent.

CUOMO: And we all have it all over.

PEREIRA: Yes.

CUOMO: I just stocked up yesterday, because we're back to school mode now.

PEREIRA: Take a -- go away from the pretty scented ones.

CUOMO: Yes, I didn't get any. That was more expensive. I went with the cheap stuff.

CAMEROTA: That's better.

Meanwhile, Donald Trump, Ben Carson. Political outsiders appear to have the inside track for the Republican nomination this year. Will the establishment candidates fight back or just give up? Our panel weighs in, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:20:40] CAMEROTA: We are less than 35 hours away now...

CUOMO: How much exactly? I wish we had a clock.

CAMEROTA: I'm going to crunch the numbers.

CUOMO: There it is.

CAMEROTA: I was -- there you go. We're 34 hours, 39 minutes and 22 -- 21 seconds away from the big debate tomorrow night. Three of the top candidates, Trump, Carson and Fiorina, are Washington outsiders. So what will the establishment candidates do tomorrow night to gain traction?

Let's talk about it. Joining us now is Alex Castellanos. He's a Republican consultant and founder of NewRepublican.org. As well as Ben Ferguson, CNN political commentator and host of "The Ben Ferguson Show."

Gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us.

ALEX CASTELLANOS, REPUBLICAN CONSULTANT: Good morning.

CAMEROTA: Ben, let me start with you. Should the establishment candidates just give up and drop out of the race?

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No. We're still, what, almost 14 months away here?

CAMEROTA: Yes.

FERGUSON: I think your biggest thing is how do you survive long enough with your campaign that you don't become the next Rick Perry? And I think each one of the candidates has got to be very specific with what their game plan is.

If Ben Carson comes out swinging at Donald Trump and tries to get into some sort of back and forth war with him during the debate, I don't think that's his best strategy. I mean, he's at 20 plus percent, depending on which poll you look at.

CAMEROTA: Yes, so what is his best strategy?

FERGUSON: For him, you've got to be yourself. That's what got you to that point. You are a 180 from Donald Trump. Don't try to outdo Donald Trump. Don't try to get him in some big back and forth fighting or debate. You're an ideas guy; you're a policy guy. That's what people are responding to.

But if you're on the end of the stage, and you're in that 5, 4, 3 percent rate, you've got to do something pretty quick to keep your campaign alive so people, one, notice you; two, people will give you money. And I think that's where you have to take bigger risks, which may mean bigger rewards. Carly Fiorina did it, and she was on the...

CAMEROTA: Yes.

FERGUSON: ... you know, some said the J.V. stage. And now she's on the big stage. So you've got to look at where you are and have that strategy that works for you.

CUOMO: Well, Alex, you've been confounded by this from the beginning. And we appreciate you being on NEW DAY to talk about this. You've got a lot of experience, watching what works and doesn't work for the GOP.

You know, Carson and Trump are growing out of the same plant right now, which is "We don't like everybody else." And they're coming up and out. What do you tell a John Kasich, who you've got to feel good about on paper. You know? Or, you know, do you tell him to go after Donald Trump? Do you tell him to be the positive opposite? What do you tell him to be? CASTELLANOS: A little bit of everything is required here. On the one

hand, you have to give as good as you get with Donald Trump, because strength is important. If you don't can't stand up to Donald Trump, you can't stand up to the presidency.

So yes, you have to be able to handle yourself in an exchange. But these governors, Kasich, Walker, Jeb Bush, they can be outsiders, too.

CAMEROTA: How?

CASTELLANOS: And that's one of their missions in this debate. Well, because they're agents of change. In their states they were Republican governors who went in and produced some real results. Cut taxes, grew economies, created millions of jobs. They want to bring that same change to Washington.

So part of their mission is don't play Trump's game. You can't ride that rocket. Let Trump do that. He's got between 20 and 40 percent of the vote, depending on the state. That leaves between 80 and 60 percent of the vote. That's a lot of votes.

Play a longer game. Establish your record. You can bring real change to Washington. The wheel will turn.

CAMEROTA: That will be music to the ears of all of the establishment candidates, Alex.

CUOMO: I'm voting for Castellanos.

CAMEROTA: Yes, I know. He's very impressive.

But Ben, tomorrow night, is that going to work for Jeb Bush, to read a laundry list of his accomplishments in Florida?

FERGUSON: No. That's not what people are looking forward to hearing. They want to see a big fight; they want to see a big exchange of ideas. You just have to not overreach when you go for that big punch at Donald Trump, because he is by far the best political debater/trash talker/live TV reality show guy that we've ever seen. I'll give him full credit for that.

And if you come out there and you think that you're going to be able to, you know, get the spotlight from him by talking about your accomplishments "A," "B," "C," "D," "E" and "F" as a governor in Florida a couple years ago, you're going to still be at 5, 6, 7 percent when you leave, or maybe even lower.

CUOMO: Why is there this assumption that anybody would see this in their best interest of going at Donald Trump? I mean, he's got people who like him. He says he's not going to go after anybody else, unless they come at him. And in the last debate they set Trump up to be a target.

FERGUSON: Sure.

CUOMO: You know, they came with that pledge question out of the box. They came at him about personally out of the box. That's probably not going to happen now. You've got the pledge cast. They're not going to go over the same territory.

[07:25:18] CASTELLANOS: Well, this debate...

CUOMO: Why focus on him, Alex?

CASTELLANOS: This debate is a little different. This debate is a little different. Because this debate, Trump, again, it's all about Trump.

Trump's even figured out how to win the first round of the debate before the debate, with that brilliant speech last night in Dallas. He's -- it's already all about him. He's carrying that momentum into the -- into the game itself.

So it's all about being the alternative to Trump. Strength matters. These candidates can't -- they can't allow themselves to be big-footed by Donald Trump every single time.

CUOMO: Too late.

FERGUSON: Last night...

(CROSSTALK)

CASTELLANOS: ... the United States -- the president of the United States is a pretty big job. You do have to have the strength to hold a country and a world together that seems to be spinning apart. If these candidates can't do that, the best advice I would give the other candidates is whether you take on Trump or not, be the president. Be the president we believe you will become.

CAMEROTA: That is good advice. Ben, what were you thinking last night as you watched Trump?

FERGUSON: Yes, last night when I watched him in Dallas here, the one thing I realized, it was very clear, is Trump has literally owned and cornered the narrative of "it's us, the audience, against the world, against the machine, against Washington, against the governors, against the GOP establishment."

And so the other candidates, I think if you come out there -- Ted Cruz is a great example. Come out there tomorrow night and talk about his lack of substance on policies. That's really the only place right now that Donald Trump, I think, is vulnerable. Because even when he talks for more than an hour last night...

CUOMO: Cruz isn't going to do it. He's been buddying up with Trump. He's not going to do that.

FERGUSON: Yes, but my point is this: Last night, when you have an -- over an hour of a conversation with a huge audience, and you really did not put out one specific plan, except for :I'm going to do this. I'm going to do that. I'm going to be the best president ever. You're going to love America again. You're going to be proud of America again. I'm not going to apologize for being an American," if you're one of the...

CUOMO: Sounds good. I'm voting for Ben.

FERGUSON: ... other guys who understands policy, it would be very smart to talk about, "Hey..."

CASTELLANOS: Good luck with that, Ben.

FERGUSON: Well, I think you've got to take that chance at some point.

CASTELLANOS: Good luck with that, Ben. Hold your breath. That's like -- that's like tossing a softball to Trump. Because...

FERGUSON: Not if you can sell it. Not if you actually are a smart guy.

CASTELLANOS: ... next week he'll come out with his tax plan.

CAMEROTA: All right, guys. Alex, Ben...

CASTELLANOS: But next week he comes out with his tax plan.

CAMEROTA: There's so much more to talk about. Alex and Ben, we will have you guys back shortly. Thank you very much.

CASTELLANOS: Thanks.

CAMEROTA: I like that you just will vote for anybody...

CUOMO: Sounds good.

CAMEROTA: The last person who speaks, I think, is what you like.

CUOMO: Sound goods. I like you. I'm voting for you.

CAMEROTA: I know that.

And meanwhile, tune in tomorrow night to see how the establishment candidates do against Trump. The first of two Republican presidential debates begins at 6 p.m., so set your dials for that. Then the primetime event starts at 8 p.m. right here on CNN -- Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right. Ferocious flash flooding in the canyons of Utah near the Arizona border. So far eight people have died. Authorities fear that the death toll will rise. We'll bring you an update from the scene, just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)