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GOP Candidates Face Off on CNN Tonight; Firing at the Frontrunner; On Air Shooting Survivor Vicki Gardner Speakers Out. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired September 16, 2015 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: It's not just coming from his own party. Vice President Joe Biden took time to talk about Trump and his rhetoric about Latinos.

[07:00:08] So there's starting to come some fire at the frontrunner. What will it mean? Just 11 hours until the festivities again. Let's begin our coverage. CNN's Athena Jones inside the debate hall.

Look at you in there, surrounded by everybody who's better than you. Nobody.

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Chris.

This is where it's all going to go down a few hours from now. And this is a huge opportunity for these candidates to make a strong impression.

Of course, we will all be watching very closely. Donald Trump has really torn up the usual playbook. Not only when it comes to campaigning but also when it comes to preparing for a big night like this.

And in just a few hours we'll have a chance to see if his unusual approach pays off for him.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JONES (voice-over): Debate day is here. In just hours, GOP presidential hopefuls will be facing off inside the Reagan Presidential Library.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't know how you can prepare for something. I hear everybody's coming after me.

JONES: While some lower tier candidates are gearing up...

SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm going to mix it up, because I like to rumble.

CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I read up on current issues.

JONES: The frontrunner was busy soaking up the spotlight. Donald Trump, as always, doing things his own way. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Donald J. Trump!

JONES: He was on the campaign trail on the eve of the debate, making an appeal to veterans aboard the USS Iowa, a historic World War II battleship.

TRUMP: I am with the veterans 100 percent. We have illegal immigrants that are treated better, by far, than our veterans.

JONES: Tuesday Vice President Biden taking his gloves off, sharply denouncing Trump's rhetoric towards Latinos on illegal immigration.

JOE BIDEN (D), VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There's one guy absolutely denigrating an entire group of people, appealing to the baser side of human nature, working on this notion of xenophobia in a way that hasn't occurred in a long time.

TRUMP: There's tremendous crime. There's tremendous drugs pouring across the border.

JONES: Trump's remarks igniting a firestorm from hundreds of anti- Trump protestors outside.

In typical Trump fashion, his 15-minute speech was short on policy details. Instead, he bashed his rivals.

TRUMP: I'm fighting some very nice people, but they're never going to do anything with these countries. They're never going to be able to do it. It's an instinct; it's something that's special. They don't have it.

JONES: As the candidates get ready for round two tonight, the Donald seemed unfazed by those taking aim at him, both on and off the stage.

TRUMP: I feel good about it. I feel really good about it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any special preparation?

TRUMP: I've been doing this for 30 years, a lot of preparation. But I feel really good about the debate.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JONES: So Trump says he feels really good about the debate. He's also said his whole life has been preparation for a debate and that he's a strong counterpuncher when he's under attack.

And one of the big questions for tonight is going to be whether any of the other candidates can land any punches on him and what he's going to say to hit back.

Back to you guys.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, we will all be watching to are that. So let's bring in now CNN national political reporter Maeve Reston; CNN political commentator and political anchor at New York One, Errol Louis; and CNN political analyst and presidential campaign correspondent for "The New York Times," Maggie Haberman. Great to have all of you.

Maeve, we'll start with you. You're here with us. You've been reporting on this and how everyone's preparing. What are you expecting tonight?

MAEVE RESTON, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think it's interesting, because a lot of these camps have different strategies. I mean, you talk to some of the candidate strategists who say they just are fine with just letting their candidate focus on the message, stay back.

Then you have someone like Jeb Bush who really are expecting to bring it against Donald Trump as he has been out on the campaign trail.

Others like Carly Fiorina, who's been doing a lot of that kind of light jabs at Trump and showing a little bit of humor and flash. So it will be really interesting to watch her tonight.

And of course, Ben Carson, I think, is one of the most interesting candidates. Right now you see him almost beginning to eclipse Trump. So he's really got to show voters that he, you know, has what it takes to -- to be in the Oval Office.

CUOMO: If you think about it, Carson and Fiorina are the only two people on the stage that, in a way, Trump owes something to. He did the wrong thing by Fiorina, whether he wants to admit it or not. So he's got to be a little careful there.

RESTON: Expect her to get the better of that, though, tonight.

CUOMO: And I would hope she would. You know?

RESTON: Yes.

CUOMO: And then -- and then you have Dr. Carson, where it doesn't feel quite right when he goes after Dr. Carson. That's why he's couching it in, "He's a nice guy. He's just not the right kind of guy for this."

But Errol, you know, one of the interesting things that usually happens in a debate is, you plan for what you know the other person is going to say. They're going to say this; I'm going to say this.

Tonight, there's a different dynamic, because you have to watch and wait what all these others do to see how much you have to do to make yourself known. Do you have to be the one to go at Trump, or can you wait for Maeve to do it? And then just counter and say, "I'm not going to be like them."

[07:05:11] So this is more of a listening game tonight than usual.

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, absolutely. And then, of course, you've got the great Jake Tapper in there, who's going to sort of be pairing them up, perhaps in some unorthodox combination, so that the ideas and the personalities and the candidates may not be what a candidate prepared for.

I mean, how do you do debate prep when you've got to assume that there are going to be ten other people on the stage, and who knows what coming from the moderators?

So yes, it's -- it's -- probably the best strategy is to just stick to your knitting, figure out what it is you want to say about yourself, and expect to do that. But keep a sharp ear out and be ready for certain kinds of exchanges.

CAMEROTA: Stick to your knitting. I like that. I don't use that expression enough.

CUOMO: Sometimes you use it.

CAMEROTA: I will be inserting that throughout the morning into our conversations.

But Maggie, with your political reporting, I mean, what's being revealed? What are you hearing?

MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: What you're going to see is, essentially, I think -- and I think Errol's advice is right. But I think that the number of people who are going to be able to stick to that is probably pretty slim.

You have a number of people who have these preexisting fights with Donald Trump, which Maeve was just talking about. Then you have a bunch of people onstage who basically need to remind folks at home that they exist. That's the "I'm here, too" crew.

You've got Chris Christie. You've got John Kasich, who actually had a pretty good debate performance last time in the FOX News debate, and it helped him soar. But he has leveled out a bit, and he needs to remind people that he is still there.

Rand Paul had a very rough outing in the first debate. He seemed like he was flailing, essentially, including physically waving his arms around. He needs to do a much better showing. He has had a lot of money troubles.

You have a lot of people who basically need to have some kind of a moment where they make their mark. Because as we saw with Rick Perry, who dropped out last week, hard dollars and campaign donations still matter. And being parts of these debates and being seen in them and doing well, is part of how you raise them. If people don't have a good night tonight, I think you are going to see a lot of candidates take a dive afterwards.

CUOMO: Spot on, Maggie.

You know, Maeve, we have, like, a mixed relationship with money and politics. Right? We hate it, but we have to deal with it as a reality. After tonight, the reason I keep saying it's got to change, no matter what happens is, they have to go out and they want to raise money. RESTON: Right.

CUOMO: It is hard to raise money between now and February if you don't make the most of every opportunity.

RESTON: Well, absolutely. And as much as Donald Trump likes to talk about how he can finance his own campaign, these smaller dollar donations do show you how much support is out there for a candidate.

And certainly someone like Perry really struggled when he was on the -- you know, the kiddie stage afterwards. Donors just said, "I don't know if I can put my money there."

And a lot of the other candidates are having that problem. Not only the ones that are sort of sliding off the stage. But Jeb Bush has got a lot of eyes on him tonight from donors. They want to see, really, whether he can show that fire and channel the anger that voters are feeling, that Trump is doing such a good job with.

So I mean, will -- it is a money race that's going on behind the scenes. And there's lots of eyeballs out there, but maybe those are the most important ones in some ways.

CAMEROTA: So Errol, last night, Donald Trump was supposed to be giving this speech that was billed as a foreign policy or national security speech. But he didn't really do that. And he just sort of reverted to a campaign stump speech.

Why is that? Why isn't he giving specifics? Can he not do that? Or is this by design?

LOUIS: Well, you've got to assume that it's by design. Let's keep in mind, Donald Trump has his name on two books. I don't know if he actually physically wrote them, but he said that he did. And there are two books, one in 2000, one in 2011, that are chock full of ideas. They're books specifically about what he would do if he's elected president.

So it's kind of perplexing in a way that he never references any of what he put into those two books. He never talks about any of those policies. And he stuck to the -- sort of the bluff and the bluster last night.

One thing to keep in mind, though, is that last night I think, although it was perhaps billed as a policy speech, it looked more like a political favor being repaid. The group that he raised money for, the Veterans for a Strong America, has a very, very low, somewhat shadowy and entirely political profile. And it was one of the few groups that came to the defense of Donald Trump when he said that John McCain was not a war hero.

So it's not clear whether or not he was intending to really give a policy speech so much as raise some money for a very small -- very, very small group that did him a favor a few months ago.

CUOMO: Be that as it may, Maggie, I mean, in politics you do what you have to. He does not have to give specifics. The others do, because they're playing a different game that we're judging, frankly, by different rules.

Donald Trump has attached himself to the feelings of a group of Americans; and they're not asking him for specifics, because they know how they feel. They don't need him to prove it any more than that.

The question is, how does he grow that into this half of his party that isn't buying into him right now?

[07:10:03] HABERMAN: That's right, Chris. That's exactly right. I mean, how he grows from where he is, I think, is the big question.

Look, he has become a much better candidate. I wrote about this today. He has matured as a candidate. He's given in to a lot of candidate conventions, things like sticking around after a speech and shaking hands and working rope lines. He uses notes now. He actually had a lot of notes prepared, I'm told, for the speech last night; and yet, he didn't quite go by them. He went to standard stump.

I do think that it is harder for him to go with things that are unfamiliar; and I think that talking about national security in depth and at a granular level is not quite what he's used to as much as he's used to sort of throwing hats into the crowd and rallying them.

I do think we are reaching a point where he is -- he is approaching -- not max out, but he's approaching a ceiling, maybe, of where he can go in terms of tapping into voter anger and emotion and feeling. And I do think he is going to have to start giving specifics on certain issues. National security is obviously a pretty important one. And I think that there are only so many of those opportunities that he can have and not take and not seize.

CAMEROTA: Yes. I mean, Hugh Hewitt will be asking some questions tonight. We know that he got tripped up the last time that there was an exchange with Hugh Hewitt. So we'll see if that -- what happens.

CUOMO: That worked against Hugh Hewitt.

RESTON: Sometimes it's not just, you know, the policy specifics so much as giving people a level of comfort that you know what you're talking about. That's what voters are looking for.

CAMEROTA: Maeve, Maggie, Errol, thanks so much for walking us through it. We will be checking in with you for the next 24 hours.

Of course, be sure to tune in tonight for the first of two of debates, beginning at 6 p.m. Eastern. The main event with the 11 candidates starts at 8 p.m. Eastern.

CUOMO: And Alisyn and I will there be for you tonight. We'll be talking to the candidates afterwards, and we will bring you those interviews and a lot of analysis tomorrow morning, an especially early edition of NEW DAY, right from here, the Reagan Presidential Library. When does it begin? Five-thirty a.m. Eastern -- Mick. MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: And I think Errol gave me an idea. I

think I'll knit and watch the debate tonight. So it's kind of a mashup of the two.

CUOMO: Stick to your knitting.

PEREIRA: Stick to my knitting.

CUOMO: Stick to your knitting.

PEREIRA: I sure will.

All right. We'll have more debate preview coverage for you ahead, but we want to look at some other headlines at 11 minutes past the hour.

The death toll now reaching 16 in those dangerous flash floods in Utah. Four people are still missing. A wall of water swept away two cars in the small town of Hildale Monday, killing -- killing 12 women and children. Four hikers were also killed in a canyon near Zion National Park.

A very different situation in California. Firefighters slowing gaining ground on that huge Northern California wildfire that has already destroyed nearly 600 homes. The Valley Fire is threatening more than 9,000 structures still.

There are 2,400 firefighters battling this blaze. They got a little relief, thanks to the weather, Tuesday. That fire is now 30 percent contained.

We've lurched the Obama administration has allocated $250 million in emergency funding to help fight those wildfires.

Chilling words from the sole survivor of the Virginia murders captured on live TV. Vicki Gardner speaking out for the first time, telling FOX News she decided to play dead when a gunman opened fire, killing WDBJ reporter Alison Parker and photojournalist Adam Ward last month.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VICKI GARDNER, SHOOTING SURVIVOR: I just fell to the ground as though I had been hit and went into fetal position, because I felt as though he was going to shoot me in the head. Had I continued to stand there, I would not be here talking to you.

My heart just goes out to Alison and Adam. And they're so young. Why -- you know, why save me and take them? I just -- but obviously, there's a purpose; and by golly, I will fulfill it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: What a lady. Vicki Gardner said she was ready to die when the gunman came back to shoot her. The gunman was a former WDBJ employee. He killed himself hours later after posting videos of that horrific attack.

Right. Those are your headlines. Let's head back to Simi Valley, California -- Chris, Alisyn.

CUOMO: All right. This is going to be the big battle, big step in who becomes the Republican nominee for president. The race will change after this, because you have this huge group of people who want to get some of Donald Trump's attention. But how do they do it so they can keep raising money, so they can keep staying in it?

We will discuss what has to happen on the stage tonight from the Reagan Presidential Library in California, live in just moments. It's time to get a good seat. Nobody's taken them yet.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:18:50] CUOMO: We are counting down to tonight's CNN Republican debate. How much of tonight's event will be a showdown between the establishment and the outsiders? We're joined now by Alex Castellanos, Republican consultant and founder of NewRepublican.org, as well as Mr. Ben Ferguson, CNN political commentator and host of "The Ben Ferguson Show."

Now Alex...

ALEX CASTELLANOS, REPUBLICAN CONSULTANT: Good morning.

CUOMO: ... you were prepping us up here before the debate. You said some things that are very helpful. One: this ain't the first debate; it's the second one. And you believe there will be a big difference in terms of tone and substance and that all this focus on going after Trump is not necessarily true. It's about how people see you as the candidate tonight. Make those two points for us and why.

CASTELLANOS: Well, we're talking about the biggest job in the world. And the great mission all of these folks have on stage tonight is to let us see them as the president that we believe one of them is going to become. Whose steady hand do we want on tiller in the stormy seas that we find ourselves in today?

So getting small, getting -- you know, making it look like it's just a high-school election and name calling and all of those things, that can actually take you out of the campaign tonight. Stay big. I think that's one of the things we want to see.

[07:20:05] And it's not the first date. This is not who looks prettiest in the red dress. We know who that is.

CUOMO: She's the only one wearing a dress.

(CROSSTALK)

CASTELLANOS: This is not your first date. We're beginning to develop a serious relationship here. We want some depth.

CAMEROTA: So, Ben...

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. CAMEROTA: ... last time around, you'll remember that Carly Fiorina was thought to have had a good night. John Kasich was thought to have had a good night. Marco Rubio was thought to have a good night, and then nothing happened. I mean, other than Carly Fiorina, they didn't get much traction after that.

What do all of the other candidates, other than Donald Trump, need to do tonight to break free?

FERGUSON: Substance, substance, substance. I think that's how you can separate yourself from Donald Trump. If you can come out there and remind the voters that, one, you're still there and there are other options outside of Donald Trump.

And, two, that you actually have ideas and plans on how to deal with serious issues, that's how I think people like Ben Carson have been able to rise above.

He's not throwing bombs at Donald Trump. He's not attacking him day in and day out. He's not going to war with him. And he's been really a completely different candidate. It's worked for him.

It worked also with Carly Fiorina. She didn't just talk trash as some people, you know, would assume to get a big bump after the last debate. She talked substance in that early debate. And it obviously helped her.

So I think if you're one of these candidates, you've got to be want to be noticed. I mean, if you're up there, you need something memorable. But the memory might not be the classic, "Hey, I've got a one-liner or zinger at Donald Trump." It may be that, "Hey, I came out and looked like I was a lot smarter on the issues than Donald Trump," and that might work.

CUOMO: Well, it's a tough balance, though, Ben.

FERGUSON: Sure.

CUOMO: And I mean, you know that it is. And that's why -- because we sound like we're all kind of saying opposing things sometimes. You have to be remembered, which means you've to have a good one-liner. But you want it to be about yourself. He says you don't want to go small, but you'll probably have to go at Trump. But you want to be big.

That's why these are such good tests, not because there's not a good answer, Alex. But because we want to see how do you handle what's a difficult situation? How do you be big while showing that you can take a punch and give a punch? You know what I mean? These are tough questions.

CASTELLANOS: It's -- guess what? Politics is a lot like real life. It's the way we have to deal with problems in our everyday life. It's the way you raise children.

You know, are you a tough parent, but are you also an understanding parent? Finding that balance. The president of the United States is the head of our political household. We want to see maturity; we want to see strength. At the end of the day, that's more important than a zinger.

CAMEROTA: Ben, it feels like this is high stakes tonight. And it feels that way because Rick Perry got out of the race. So do you think that after tonight, if somebody doesn't see a bump, that we will, within the next week perhaps, see somebody else bow out?

FERGUSON: I think there's a pretty good chance of that. Because if you, tonight, cannot get donors inspired; and you're one of the guys that's sitting at the very bottom, you're going to be in trouble, because this is the second debate. And if you don't get traction after this, am I willing to write you a check?

The other thing is, is anyone going to show up at your campaign rallies? Well, if you don't have people showing up, and you don't have people writing you checks, you're in serious trouble, the same way Rick Perry bowed out.

And I think you can see maybe one or two more after this debate, especially those that are on the pre-debate. You have to have some major resurgence of your campaign tonight, the same way that Carly Fiorina did, or in other words, you're always going to be on that stage. And you're just buying time until you decide to drop out.

So you've got to have a big night in that capacity. Because ultimately, if you don't have money, you don't have a campaign.

CUOMO: You know what you have to do. The question is how. And we've just seen the roads diverge in the wood. One of the roads is I'm taking the high road, Ben Carson: "I know I kind of look like I took a hit at Trump. I've learned this lesson before with the gay stuff. I'm not going to go there again. Let's stay clean."

And then you have Rand Paul, Ben, and Rand Paul is saying, "I didn't give it to him enough last time."

CASTELLANOS: Yes.

CUOMO: "I'll show you who's tough. I'm swinging, and I'm putting my head down."

What's the calculation there? What's the plus/minus on that move?

FERGUSON: Go big or go home. I mean, for him at this point, you have to do something like that. I think he's ready.

I think the biggest thing you can fall into, though, is if you try to preplan a zinger, preplan an attack, a one-liner, that can get you in trouble, because it can fall flat. And it can look like it's prepared.

I think your best chance to go after Trump, if he wants to do that, and that's obviously, I think, going to be his strategy; he's ready to go. It's got to be in a reaction to something that Donald Trump says that maybe wasn't well -- you know, well said or well-thought-out or well-planned. Donald Trump says a lot of things that you should be able to attack him on.

The question is, can you jump in there at the right time and do it? But for him, look where he is in the polls. I think he thinks, "I've got nothing to lose tonight. If I don't do anything big, is it going to matter? And if I do do something big, it might help me, so I'll do it and give it a shot." And I think it's a pretty smart move for him.

I also think people like Mike Huckabee need to think about doing the exact same thing.

CAMEROTA: Alex.

CASTELLANOS: I think -- I think Rand Paul is here in case it rains again, so he can go get our umbrellas. I don't think there's a big...

[07:25:03] CAMEROTA: Ouch!

CASTELLANOS: I don't think there's a big role for him.

There are really only a few candidates on that stage who Americans at this point would trust entering the Oval Office and sitting in that big chair.

CAMEROTA: Who are you keeping an eye most closely on tonight, other than Trump?

CASTELLANOS: Jeb Bush has to remain big and presidential, establish himself as a conservative. Scott Walker is fading.

CUOMO: When you say he has to remain big, he's going this way right now. (GESTURES DOWNWARD)

CASTELLANOS: He is.

CUOMO: So then why do you say "remain"? Do you think that this is a short-term suffering but long-term payoff?

CASTELLANOS: Well, I'd say when you're at 6 percent in the polls, that's pretty flat. So remain.

He's -- he's still a Bush. He's still got 100 million bucks in the bank and TV. We are moving to a new phase of the campaign. Candidates are going to have TV ads now. So it's not just news media with Trump and debates. So -- but Jeb Bush has to have a good evening this evening.

FERGUSON: He has the most to lose.

CASTELLANOS: Tomorrow -- Excuse me? He has the most -- we have Scott Walker, who has been fading. And that's a real concern, because money does dry up; and resurrection is hard.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

CASTELLANOS: If you've declined coming back, that's going to be very tough.

Carly Fiorina has more room to grow tonight, probably, than any other candidate on the stage. She's one to watch.

Ben Carson is safe harbor for Republicans. A good, steady choice, but we don't know if he has the substance yet to be president. Can he establish that tonight?

FERGUSON: And Jeb -- Jeb...

CAMEROTA: Yes, we've got to...

FERGUSON: I think Jeb Bush literally tonight has the most to lose. He has the most. He's the biggest candidate to be underperforming at this point. He has to come out and have a good night.

CAMEROTA: Yes. Ben, Alex, thanks so much. Great to see you guys.

CUOMO: A lot of people on the stage. A lot of different ways to get there. But all with the common goal to come out tonight with a better chance at victory down the line.

What do you think you want to see? What will impress you? What will not? Tweet us, using the hashtag #CNNdebate.

CAMEROTA: You did that right.

CUOMO: I did so far.

CAMEROTA: Well done.

CUOMO: Well, let me see if I get this part right. It's very tricky. There aren't -- there isn't just one; there's two debates tonight. The first one begins at 6 p.m. Eastern. You've got two senators and two governors on there, so you've got heavyweights. The main event has 11 candidates and one excellent moderator, Jake Tapper. And then he has Dana Bash and Hugh Hewitt asking questions. And that begins at 8 p.m. Eastern -- Mick.

PEREIRA: And don't forget: They have to have their Wheaties, because we have 418 days until the election, Alisyn and Chris. We'll get back with you in a second.

CUOMO: Toasties (ph).

PEREIRA: One of the most intriguing matchups that we're watching tonight will involve Carly Fiorina facing off against the Donald after he made those comments of "Look at that face." Will Fiorina fight back?

We're going to speak with Patricia Schroeder. She's a trailblazer who briefly entered the 1988 presidential race. We'll talk to her when NEW DAY continues, live from the Reagan Presidential Library in Simi Valley, California.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)