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New Day

A Look at the CNN Republican Presidential Debate. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired September 17, 2015 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: There was a lot said last night. This race changed because of the debate. We have a lot more continuing coverage. So let's get right to it. Shall we?

[06:00:01] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Let's.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is about changing the system.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: First of all, I want to build a wall. Rand Paul shouldn't even be on this stage.

SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump has a bit of a point here.

TRUMP: I promise, if I wanted it, I would have gotten it.

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R-NJ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Stop this childish back and forth.

DR. BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: OK, so I just want that on the record.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You better be able to lead our country on the first day.

TRUMP: To assimilate, you have to speak English.

CHRISTIE: We don't want to hear about your careers.

FIORINA: This is about the character of our nation.

TRUMP: I think she's got a beautiful face, and I think she's a beautiful woman.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: Good morning. Welcome to this post-debate edition of -- Alisyn Camerota, line of the day so far, "Same Day" not NEW DAY. It's 3 a.m. in the morning here in Simi Valley, California. We've literally been up all night, Mick, but it was worth it. She's in New York for us. Now, we are in for a big shake-up in the Republican race. I

wrote it as a question, but I'm saying it as a statement. And here's why.

Donald Trump for the first time did not look invincible last night, he took heat from all sides, but it was constructive heat. There were arguments. There were disagreements and criticisms.

The big name this morning for you is not Donald Trump. It is Carly Fiorina. Could she make it on the big stage? She owned it for much of the night.

CAMEROTA: Also Jeb Bush, showing more signs of life than his performance at the last debate. So what were the highlights and lowlights? CNN's coverage of the Republican debate begins with John Berman. He is here with us at the Reagan Library.

Tell us what you saw, John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: It's like a smoldering battlefield the day after. I think I stepped on Rand Paul's kneecap when I walked in here that was still there. You saw these candidates, especially in the main debate, a lot of them going at each other hard on serious issues. You saw them try to execute their strategy, some with great success. Others -- you be the judge.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN (voice-over): From nearly the minute the debate started, Donald Trump was the man in the middle. The middle of a pile-on.

PAUL: His visceral response to attack people on their appearance -- short, tall, fat, ugly -- my goodness, that happened in junior high.

TRUMP: I never attacked him on his look. And believe me, there's plenty of subject matter right there. That I can tell you.

BERMAN: There was Trump v. Paul, Trump v. Fiorina about the "Rolling Stone" argue what he talked about her face.

FIORINA: I think women all over this country heard very clearly what Mr. Trump said.

TRUMP: I think she's got a beautiful face, and I think she's a beautiful woman.

BERMAN: No, she did not seem impressed. Nor was Jeb in Trump v. Bush. The subject: remarks Trump once made accusing Bush for being soft on immigration because his wife was born in Mexico.

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I hope you apologize for that, Donald.

TRUMP: Well, I have to tell you, I hear phenomenal things. I heard she's a lovely woman. BUSH: She is. She's fantastic. She's the love of my life, and

she's right here, and why don't you apologize to her right now?

TRUMP: Good. Good. You know, I won't do that, because I said nothing wrong. But I do hear she's a lovely woman.

BERMAN: The 11 candidates were begging our moderator for their chance to get in the game.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jake...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jake...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jake...

BERMAN: All with the need to break through. Carly Fiorina, the newcomer to the main debate stage, touched the crowd with a reference to sting videos targeting Planned Parenthood.

FIORINA: Anyone who has watched this videotape, I dare Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, to watch these tapes, watch a fully-formed fetus on the table, its heart beating, its legs kicking, while someone says, "We have to keep it alive to harvest its brain."

BERMAN: Marco Rubio flashed passion and knowledge on foreign policy.

RUBIO: The No. 1 issue that a president will ever confront and the most important obligation that the federal government has is to keep this nation safe. And today, we are not doing that. We are eviscerating our military, and we have a president that is more respectful to the ayatollah in Iran than he is to the prime minister of Israel.

BERMAN: While Trump and Fiorina flashed their business background in a tit-for-CEO-tat.

FIORINA: I led Hewlett-Packard through a very difficult time, the worst technology recession in 25 years.

TRUMP: She can't run any of my companies. That I can tell you.

FIORINA: You ran up mountains of debt, as well as losses, using other people's money. And you were forced to file for bankruptcy.

TRUMP: I made over $10 billion.

BERMAN: So what? Who cares, said Governor Chris Christie.

CHRISTIE: The fact is that we don't want to hear about your careers, back and forth, and volleying back and forth about who did well and who did poorly. You're both successfully people. Congratulations.

BERMAN: The debate did have some lighter moments -- or higher, as the case may be. BUSH: Forty years ago, I smoked marijuana, and I admit it. I'm

sure that other people might have did it and don't want to say it in front of 25 million people. My mom's not happy that I just did.

BERMAN: The big laughs came with Bush and Trump's proposed presidential code names.

[06:05:03] BUSH: Ever Ready. It's very high-energy, Donald.

TRUMP: Humble.

BERMAN: And not to be out-partied, Lindsey Graham, who made waves in the first debate with some hard-edged anti-terror policy.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I have a plan to destroy radical Islam, because it has to be. These are religious Nazis running wild.

BERMAN: He also came out for hard liquor.

GRAHAM: That's the first thing I'm going to do as president: We're going to drink more.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: Strongest comment of the night, some say.

All right. Let's discuss. Let's bring back Maeve Reston, CNN's national political reporter. Ron Brownstein is CNN's senior political analyst and the editorial director of "The National Journal." And we also have CNN political commentator and political anchor at New York One. He's coming to us over the satellite. Thank you very much, Errol. And J.B.'s with us, as well.

So Ron...

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes.

CUOMO: When you look at it last night, people had tests. We're not all talking about Donald Trump as someone who ran away with it.

BROWNSTEIN: Right.

CUOMO: Who made it and who fell short?

BROWNSTEIN: I thought when Donald Trump was not insulting people, he really receded. I mean, he had trouble, I think, staying in the detailed policy debate when he was kind of delivering. I counted, was it Fiorina, Rubio, Bush, Walker. I mean, I think there were six in all. But when he wasn't doing that, he wasn't really, I think, as front and center at all.

Look, I think Carly Fiorina, Marco Rubio had had very strong nights. I think that Chris Christie and Rand Paul reasserted themselves, and I thought Jeb Bush had some good moments.

I thought John Kasich also laid out a theory of the case.

The thing I was struck by the most was how divergent the theories of the case were. I mean, Republicans have lost the popular vote five out of six presidential elections. That's the backdrop here.

And they're looking for a way to get in the White House. And between Kasich, Bush and Lindsey Graham in the first debate on the first hand, which was all about outreach and about working with Democrats and about broadening the coalition. And then people like Ted Cruz and Donald Trump and Rick Santorum and Bobby Jindal on the other were really about doubling down on mobilizing the base and kind of bringing out more of their traditional voters.

I think you saw a party that is still in search of the formula that will take it back to the White House. That was my big take-away from the debate.

CAMEROTA: Hey, Errol, give us your headline. What did you see?

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I thought Fiorina did extremely well. I would agree with Ron that there was a lot more diversity. There were a lot more interesting conversations and policy differences than we've heard up until now.

And while, you know, the headline had been Donald Trump issues a personal insult, some juvenile remark. And then the other candidate has to decide what to do, instead of that, you actually had a policy debate. There were some very interesting differences between the candidates about what to do, say, with some marijuana policy. There are some who think it's a gateway drug, and it shouldn't be used at all. There are others who feel very differently. This was a fascinating three hours.

CUOMO: Carly Fiorina may have shut down several conversations last night by overwhelming with insight and intelligence on medical marijuana. But Errol was just talking about she did it a different way. Tell us what happened with that. Kind of surprised the crowd.

MAEVE RESTON, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That was an interesting moment where she actually took it personal and talked about losing a child. In her case, it actually was her stepdaughter.

But it was really an unusual moment for her. She doesn't usually show that more revealing personal side. So that certainly was something that people will be talking about, going forward.

CAMEROTA: And it was startling, because I hadn't heard that story. She looked right at the camera and said, "I know about this. I lost a child." People thought, what does that mean? And they had to go back and sort of see if she's talked about it in public. She has in her book, but this is a new -- a new plan for her, it sounds like.

RESTON: Right. It was certainly not during her 2010 campaign in California for Senate. It was certainly something that was talked about but more kind of like in the shadows. It wasn't something that she brought up.

CUOMO: But also, the test for Fiorina is do you stand toe to toe here, do you have the gravitas or is it just a business person? This was a conversation about medical marijuana that was sort of getting into the weeds, as it were.

CAMEROTA: No pun intended. All right.

CUOMO: But listen to this. Listen to the actual moment, and you'll see how she elevated what had been a petty conversation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FIORINA: I very much hope that I am the only person on this stage who can say this, but I know there are millions of Americans out there who will say the same thing. My husband, Frank, and I buried a child to drug addiction. So, we must invest more in the treatment of drugs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Up to this, it had been state, federal, state federal, and then this.

BROWNSTEIN: But you know what? Her conclusion, to go to Errol's point for her, it was a very dramatic and personal moment, and it humanized her much more than anything else.

There was one downside of the performance, is it seemed a little scripted at most moments. But I would say what was striking in addition to how personal that was, was her conclusion. Her conclusion was, the war on drugs has been a failure. Chris Christie, the war on drugs has been a failure. Rand Paul. I mean, these are -- we saw some new notes here, as Errol was suggesting...

RESTON: In the house of Reagan, right?

[06:10:05] BROWNSTEIN: Right. Yes, in the Republican Party. You had -- you had Rick Santorum and Ben Carson talking about raising the minimum wage. You had Donald Trump defending progressive taxation.

As I said, you had a really wide range of views about what is the policy mix that would lead Republicans to getting back a national majority, which after all, is the point of this. I mean, you can lose sight of, you know, when you're in the bubble of a primary and you're talking to your own people, you know, of whether you're on track to actually produce a winning majority.

Walter Mondale thought he was producing a winning majority in 1984, when Gary Hart was saying, "We have to change the party."

And he said, "No, it's OK. Just give people the true medicine of the day (ph)." This guy behind us won 49 states that year.

And Republicans have to -- I think, you know, the hard part is keeping two things in sight at the same time: getting the nomination and building a majority coalition in the general election.

CAMEROTA: So John, we started with the graphic saying, "Does Trump stay on top after this? What are people saying online? What's the reaction?

BERMAN: You know, I think this campaign has been Donald Trump versus everyone else. I think the question that will be answered in the coming days is this: has his support been built on the ridiculous moments, or in spite of the ridiculous moments? Do they need, the supporters need that crack, you know, that political crack to keep going? Because we didn't really get that much. Yes, there were a few moments. And I don't know what he did to Rand Paul. I mean, there was no excuse for what he did to poor Rand Paul.

CAMEROTA: He went after his looks.

BERMAN: But what we saw was Trump talking about the issues, you know in a much less caustic way, so...

RESTON: Although without much substance, right?

BROWNSTEIN: He didn't follow his plan. We thought he was going to do something else.

RESTON: We thought he was going to be statesman-like, more serious. Instead, he's entering a new September. He's entering a new phase of his campaign. I don't think that he acquitted himself on that last night. As the policy discussion got deeper and deeper into the evening, that was when Donald Trump completely receded.

BROWNSTEIN: Receded, yes.

RESTON: He did not jump in the way that Christie and others did.

BERMAN: What I think is interesting is that it could be -- if you follow that through, it could be then that it's just time that wears Trump down. It's not one slipup. People waiting for the big slip down. There's no...

BROWN: Trump is not likely -- if Trump does not, you know, move all the way through this, more like a plateau than collapse, I think. But look, I think -- I agree completely. I mean, Trump, I thought, really receded as the policy debate got deeper. But I thought one reception.

If you look at the polling, Donald Trump is now running twice, as well, among Republicans without a college degree than the Republicans with a college degree. In a 15-person field, in the ABC News/"Washington Post" poll last week, he was at 40 percent among non- college Republicans. A truly incredible number.

And Johnny, he does continue to talk to them. I mean...

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: Do you think in the next polling, his number comes down? BROWNSTEIN: I think it will come down a little bit.

CUOMO: It will be the first time we've seen that.

BROWNSTEIN: I think -- again, I think it's more -- the question for Trump, I don't think he's going to -- nothing happened last night that will cause him to collapse. The question is whether it will -- and when he said, you know, "In this country, we speak English, not Spanish." That's again, that's kind of what I was going to. That is something that is talking to the people that he is attracting but which is ultimately an issue if you're looking at November 2016.

LOUIS: But you know what, Ron, though? I mean...

CAMEROTA: Ron, Errol, I'm sorry, we have to leave it there. We have so much to talk about this morning. Errol, we owe you one. John, thanks so much.

Because coming up on NEW DAY -- we have to tell you about this -- stick around -- in our 7 a.m. hour, we will be speaking live to Carly Fiorina about her performance in last night's debate. What did she think was the best and most memorable moment? We will also have Governor Chris Christie here about how he fares.

CUOMO: And guess what else? In the 8 a.m. hour, we're going to hear from the Democratic side with contender Senator Bernie Sanders. What did he like? What did he not like?

Also up next, we're going to have the interview with Donald Trump right after the debate. You often get your best sense of how they feel about themselves. Here's a taste.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: It was a beautiful time. I had an amazing time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: He was tired. He also may have been a little bit shell- shocked, although he said, of course, he did very, very well. How did the voters see it? We have Trump in his own words next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:17:53] CUOMO: All right. Back here in Simi Valley, California. What just happened? I'll tell you what: the race for the GOP nominee has changed, that's what happened. Donald Trump did not dominate. We saw a different Donald during and after the debate. We spoke to him in the first post-debate interview he did. And he seemed to feel the strain. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: So, after speaking to your family, what did they say about how you were tonight? TRUMP: Well, they were very proud and very happy. And it was a

beautiful time. I had an amazing time. Three hours is a record- setting long debate. But I guess you were selling a lot of commercials during that, because they increased it. I guess it was supposed to be two.

But they were very professional the way they handled it. CNN did a very good job.

CUOMO: Well, we agree with that. It seems like it was well-run. It was a lot to talk about. Who do you think came out on top with the best ideas for the American people?

TRUMP: I think everybody really did well. There was nobody that did poorly. And I would think, really, everybody did very well. I was very impressed.

CUOMO: Anybody more than anybody else?

TRUMP: Well, I don't want to say that. I think certain people did really well. I would never say that.

CUOMO: Carly Fiorina is getting a lot of good buzz coming out of the debate. She stepped up tonight.

TRUMP: Really well, I thought. I think she's a really nice person. I think that -- really, I think everybody did very well, Chris.

CUOMO: Do you feel that you did something differently tonight than you did in the first debate?

TRUMP: No, I think probably the first debate went very well for me also. They both went very well. They're saying very nice things. I just heard a couple of people come over and say, "Wow, that was great." So I think, you know, I'm very happy with both performances actually.

CUOMO: There seemed to have been more discussion amongst the candidates during the breaks and afterwards here in this debate than in the first one.

TRUMP: I think that's true. Well, we're getting to know each other a little bit. Even though it's quite tough, and sometimes a little bit nasty, we're getting to know each other. And, you know, you develop relationships. I have a lot of respect for a lot of people on the stage.

CUOMO: What have you learned after tonight?

TRUMP: Well, I've learned that I have no trouble standing for three hours. And, you know, that's -- literally, it must be a record. I hope that the audience is OK. Because I actually think it's a little bit too long.

[06:20:04] But I learned that we have a lot of talent in the Republican Party, and I think we're going to do very well, come election day.

CUOMO: When you look to your left and look to your right tonight, did you still feel that you stand above those who else would want the job?

TRUMP: Well, I never say that. I would never say that I do. I think I'll do a great job. I think I'll be the greatest jobs producer that there ever has been in this country. I know exactly what to do. That's what I do.

CNN did a poll. I was the No. 1 in terms of leadership, No. 1 in terms of the economy and jobs. And I don't mean No. 1 by a little bit. You know the poll very well. By many times. And I think I would certainly do an unbelievable job of putting the country back to work. And literally, I think people would be extremely happy and extremely proud of our country.

CUOMO: Can you can point to anything that you heard tonight where you listened and thought, "You know what? I like that idea. I think I'm going to use that"?

TRUMP: Well, I think I think I heard a lot of things, and we'll discuss it on your show at length, because I have a whole family over here.

CUOMO: Do you have to process? What are you doing next? What do you do now?

TRUMP: Well, I'm getting on the plane. We'll go back to New York. And then I'm going up to New Hampshire tomorrow afternoon, and I'm going to Iowa. I'm going all over the place. We're having a lot of fun.

The polls have been amazing, just amazing. The receptivity has been so incredible. You know, in Dallas, we sold out the Mavericks Arena. In -- I mean, we were in Alabama -- Mobile, Alabama. We had 31,000 people. The response has been incredible. They like what I'm saying. They agree with what I'm saying.

CUOMO: What does it mean to have your family in the crowd, your daughter and your son?

TRUMP: Well, here they are. It's just great. To have them, and they seem to be so receptive today. They liked -- I could see they were giving me the high-five and the high sign.

CUOMO: Well, Ivanka must have liked it when you said she should be on the $10 bill.

TRUMP: That's right. I liked her. I mean, she sat for a long time tonight. But we had a great time. Everybody had a good time. And I was very impressed with everybody.

CUOMO: So if tomorrow, after the pundits discuss and the polls come out and they say Trump was on top, will you be surprised?

TRUMP: No, I wouldn't. I think I did very well. I think everybody did well, but I think I did very well.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: He held his own. But look, first of all, he was very tired. He keeps talking about the time. I think there's two reasons. One, he's right. It was a long debate. Two, it's harder for him. Everybody is coming at him, and he knows it, so he has to be aware. And I think last night, the game elevated around him. And I think he's going to have to figure out what that means for him.

CAMEROTA: By the end of your little chat there, he had segued back to vintage Trump. "I think I was great. It was all great. We're going to go. I get great -- I get great crowds wherever I go."

CUOMO: He was a little bit shell-shocked, though.

CAMEROTA: At first. When you first caught him coming off.

CUOMO: Yes. I think Carly Fiorina hit him with some shots last night he didn't expect.

CAMEROTA: Great. So there's so much to talk about, because the reviews are pouring in already at this hour from last night's GOP debate. Trump, Fiorina, Bush, they're the ones who are getting a lot of buzz. Were there any casualties of the showdown? We'll talk about that when our debate coverage continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[06:27:16] RUBIO (?): We don't need an apprentice in the White House. We have one right now.

GOV. JOHN KASICH (R-OH), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If I were sitting at home watching this back and following, I'd be inclined to turn it off.

PAUL: Kids who have privilege like you do, don't go to jail, but the poor kids in our inner cities go to jail.

RUBIO: You should ask them questions in detail about the foreign policy issues our president will confront, because you better be able to lead our country on the first day.

CHRISTIE: I've got to tell you the truth. They could care less about your careers; they care about theirs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Well, post-debate chatter online, at least, seemed to be focusing on three candidates: Carly Fiorina, Donald Trump and Jeb Bush. But there were lots of other candidates on stage. So were there any casualties from last night?

Joining us to discuss that is CNN's political commentator and former communications director for Senator Ted Cruz, Amanda Carpenter; former George W. Bush political director and chairman of the American Conservative Union, Matt Schlapp; and former spokesperson for Spanish- language media under President George W. Bush, Mercedes Viana Schlapp.

Great to have all of you guys. What a night.

MATT SCHLAPP, FORMER GEORGE W. BUSH POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Wow.

CAMEROTA: OK, so let's talk about some of the candidates that are not getting as much buzz this morning. And whether or not they were able to see some bump.

Let's talk about Scott Walker. We started with him. Right afterwards, I found him in the spin room, and we had a little exchange about his poll numbers. Let's listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: You have been struggling a bit in the polls. Do you think that tonight was a breakthrough moment?

SCOTT WALKER (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think so. I think people, what I heard in Iowa is a lot of people have said to me at cafe and diners and places I go to, "You're one of my top two or three candidates out there. What I want to see is the kind of passion you showed when you took on the big government union bosses, when you took on the Washington-based special interests." I think we showed that tonight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Did any of the lower tier candidates have a breakthrough moment?

SCHLAPP: No, I don't really think so. I don't think there was anything -- there was no big flubs. Nobody really blew it, which was a little bit of a surprise. And I think what people did is they fell into typecast. Huckabee, strong appeal to social conservatives. Christie, the tough-talking prosecutor. Rand Paul, legalize drugs, more of the libertarian messaging.

I think they kind of -- these candidates that are having trouble breaking through, they fell into their niche. Niche isn't going to get it done.

Scott Walker, I think he had a sturdy performance. I think it was so much better than the first one.

CUOMO: That's an interesting take. Let's fold in Jindal, Santorum and Lindsey Graham into that, as well.

SCHLAPP: Yes. That's right.

CUOMO: Is that enough? If you fall into niche, naturally, you say it's not enough. But there is a survival. This is an existential battle going on. They can't all raise money, because they're looking at the same pockets. So when the numbers shake out who do you think moves up; who do you think moves down?

AMANDA CARPENTER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I have a very hard time believing that Ben Carson maintains his No. 2 status in the race after last night's performance.

CUOMO: Who takes it?

CAMEROTA: You thought Ben wasn't strong enough?

CARPENTER: I don't think he was strong enough. I don't think that he maintained expectations. There was more scrutiny on him. And frankly, he gave some bizarre answers, particularly on the minimum wage.

CUOMO: Nine-eleven?

CARPENTER: That there should be two minimum wages.

CUOMO: Yes.

CARPENTER: And also in the index sort of to reasonableness. I mean, this is kind of stuff that isn't in the conservative bloodstream by any means.