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Bernie Sanders Interview; Republican Debate Substance; CNN Debate: What Do Republican Voters Think? Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired September 17, 2015 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00] SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: Do something. No scientist that I know believes that. What they think is, if we don't act now, the situation - bad situation will become much worse in late years. In terms of childhood poverty, I didn't hear a word about the need to address the fact that 40 percent of African-American kids in this country are living in poverty, nor did I hear a word, by the way, about racial justice in this country.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: The candidates, as you know, senator, went after each other somewhat last night. And they also went after Hillary Clinton and they took sort of a sideswipe at you in the process. Let me play for you what Bobby Jindal said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. BOBBY JINDAL (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Hillary Clinton is gift wrapping this election to us. They are running their weakest candidate. They've got a socialist that is gaining on Hillary Clinton. Folks, you can't make that up. A socialist is doing well in the Democratic primary.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: He says you can't make it up. It's stranger than fiction, basically. Your response?

SANDERS: My thought is that the more the American people understand the kind of programs that exist in democratic socialist countries like Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland and other countries around the world where healthcare is a right of all people, where college - public colleges and universities are tuition free, where their rate of childhood poverty is much, much lower than it is in the United States of America, where you have much more income and wealth equality and don't have the disparities that we have in this country, where in many cases for the middle class of those countries, their standard of living is a lot higher than it is in this country. Now, I owe - I know for Governor Jindal, it is easy to try to frighten people. We throw out a - a word, socialism. Oh my goodness. We're all supposed to be shaking in our boots. But I think if we look at some of the real success stories in many of these countries, there's a lot that we can learn.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Well, make the case because a lot of people are scared when you say socialist. It doesn't ring the right bell in a capitalist society. The countries you're talking about, the criticism will be, well, it doesn't scale up the way you're suggesting it would. They're smaller populations.

SANDERS: Right.

CUOMO: They're homogenists (ph).

SANDERS: Yes.

CUOMO: They can handle that tax burden differently and that what they're afraid of with Sanders is that you're going to tax us to death in order to give to the people who need, but you'll be taking from everybody else too much.

SANDERS: No, I will not be. And, Chris, of course you're right in saying that, you know, country likes Finland and Denmark and Sweden are much more homogenous than we are. They are much smaller than we are. But there are lessons that we can learn. Why are we the only major nation on earth that doesn't guarantee healthcare to all people?

Forget (ph) Scandinavia. I live 100 miles away from Canada. All of their people have healthcare and they do it much more cost effectively than we do. Why are we the only major country on earth that doesn't guarantee paid family and medical leave so when a working class woman has a baby, she's not forced to be separated from her baby and go back to work a week or two weeks later? Why do we have the highest rate of childhood poverty of any major country on earth? Why is it that hundreds of thousands of bright young kids today cannot afford to go college?

So I think, yes, the United States is a much larger economy, much more complicated economy, much more diverse society, but there are things that we can learn from governments which have programs that represent working people.

And by the way, another issue that did not come up last night in the debate is this disastrous Citizen's United Supreme Court decision which allows billionaires to buy elections and maybe that had something to do with the fact that most of the people up there on the platform have super PACs, which are all funded by the wealthiest people in this country, which forces them, despite Jeb Bush's suggestion, that he is not going to protect the interest of the people who fund him. Well, maybe he will and maybe most of them will end up doing that that.

CUOMO: How do get money out of politics. How to people - help people make more money here without having a tax burden go crazy. These are things to be discussed. As always, Senator Sanders, we invite you on to NEW DAY to discuss these issues going forward and thank you for making your case today, sir.

CAMEROTA: Thanks so much, Senator.

SANDERS: Thank you very much.

CAMEROTA: All right, Hillary Clinton is also going to be on CNN. She will give her first reaction to last night's debate in an exclusive interview with Wolf Blitzer at 5:00 p.m. Eastern on "THE SITUATION ROOM." You don't want to miss that.

CUOMO: You see the look on her face, that's when Wolf says a question. She's like, wow, I can't believe how awesome that question is.

CAMEROTA: It does look like she's thinking that.

CUOMO: There will be a lot of that in an interview with Wolf Blitzer. Look forward to it.

Now, the presidential candidates, they were trying to impress you that they have substance, not just one-liners. How about foreign policy? Healthcare? The issues that matter. You just heard Sanders saying he didn't hear enough. Who delivered the goods? We'll take a look.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:36:39] CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Welcome back. I'm Christine Romans for CNN Money now, "Your Money."

Ask Americans which woman should be on the upcoming remake of the $10 bill. You'll hear Rosa Parks, Harriet Tubman, Eleanor Roosevelt, Sacagawea, Susan B. Anthony. Well, Jake Tapper asked the candidates last night who they would put on the 10. Surprising answers. Trump, Cruz and Rubio want Rosa Parks. Rand Paul, Susan B. Anthony. Scott Walker, Red Cross founder Clara Barton. Chris Christie says first lady Abigail Adams. John Kasich, Mother Theresa. She's not an American though. Jeb Bush also chose a non-American, Margaret Thatcher, a nod to Ronald Reagan's Cold War ally. Ben Carson chose his mother. Mike Huckabee chose his wife. And Carly Fiorina rejected the premise. Ironically, it's the Obama administration that gets to make this call. Treasury Secretary Jack Lew expected to make that decision soon.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: Carly Fiorina spent much of last night taking on frontrunner Donald Trump, the outsiders. There were lots of jabs, but which candidates, if any, delivered the most substance?

Joining us now, our CNN national security commentator and former House Intelligence Committee Chairman Mike Rogers and Jennifer Granholm, she's a former Democratic governor of Michigan and currently a senior adviser to the pro Hillary group Correct the Record.

Great to see you guys. Thanks for waking up early.

REP. MIKE ROGERS, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY COMMENTATOR: Good to see you. Thanks for having us.

CAMEROTA: Governor, we were talking yesterday about how we were going to be watching Carly Fiorina. A lot of people thought she stole the show last night.

[08:40:04] JENNIFER GRANHOLM (D), FORMER MICHIGAN GOVERNOR: She did. I mean I think from a style point of view, she was unbelievable. Really, really sold. I do think - and I think she will be on the upward escalator in terms of poll numbers. CAMEROTA: In poll numbers.

GRANHOLM: But I do think, even though she had such a good answer, a pat answer on her time at Hewlett-Packard, if she were to be the nominee, those 30,000 people who were laid off, there is such ripe commercial -

CAMEROTA: But isn't that the culture of doing business when you're the CEO in that struggling industry, as she said?

GRANHOLM: Well, the question is, did she make some bad business decisions that accelerated the layoffs, right, including the acquisition of Compaq, which was a bad decision. But the point I'm saying is that those 30,000 people who were laid off, each of them could be the subject of a commercial. That's that issue, even though she has a good, solid answer from her perspective, it would not go away.

CUOMO: All right, so, big issue that was on the table, Fiorina scored very well on is -

GRANHOLM: Yes.

CUOMO: What do we do in the war on terror? How do we do it and what is the criticism to date? Marco Rubio wants to own this space. He said something last night that, Mike, I want your take on. Let's listen to Marco.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: They're talking about we have zero responsibility because let's remember what the president said. He said the attack that he was going to conduct was going to be a pinprick. Well, the United States military was not built to conduct pinprick attacks. If the United States military is going to be engaged by a commander in chief, it should only be engaged in an endeavor to win. And we are not going to authorize use of force if you're not putting men and women in a position where they can win. And, quite frankly, people don't trust this president as commander in chief because of that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Let's not analyze this from the perspective of what the military's capable. As we know, they certainly do pinprick because we're using Special Ops more and more and they're the best in the world and they do very discreet missions. His point was something else. It was, we're not being bold enough in what we do. What's the plus/minus on that position for you?

ROGERS: Well, I think it's a big plus and I think he showed himself very strong on national security. That was in his lane, in his space, and I think he did himself some good last night in the debate. He makes a very important point. Three and a half years ago, there was lots of consensus that if you do not do something with ISIS, bringing your Arab League partners in, being aggressive - I think we've had those conversations - you are going to have a big problem. The president didn't want to deal with it. I think his point was, if we had dealt with it then in a more significant way, we wouldn't have the problem that we have, which is the more displacement of human tragedy since World War II, in refugees, and, of course, the sheer threats (INAUDIBLE).

CUOMO: Their push back that when Syria was first heating up and President Obama looked at it and first said, well, we don't know who released the gas on these people. And then a few days later, we had done an interview with him, a few days later, he says I'm bombing Iran. I'm bombing Syria. I'm going in there and doing it. Rubio and others were very slow. They backed the president off. So it was a fair pushback from the administration saying, you know, now you're saying you want to go so big and bold. When we said we were going to bomb Syria early on, you were all against us.

ROGERS: Well, I'm not sure exactly it fell out that way. So, two problems happen. And one thing I think Congress needed to do, and so away from the debate, again, I thought Rubio did well and I think he did himself some good last might. They needed to engage in helping the president get that use of authorization in Syria. I still think that they need to do that. However, the president has never worked it, never pushed on it and he engaged in those bombing runs already. And he's engaged in the plan that he wanted and all is we've done in Syria is nibble around the edges. So that is their - that's the heart and soul of ISIS. You know, we have 56 FBI field offices. We have 56 investigations at least in every one - one investigation per field office on ISIS in the United States. This is a big and growing problem. You are going to have to do something about it. And I think what Rubio's point was, listen, we're issuing press releases. You're dropping a few bombs. It clearly isn't working.

CAMEROTA: Governor Granholm, quickly, what was the moment that most struck you last night?

GRANHOLM: I think that Chris Christie had one of the best moments in reminding people that it's about real people. When Donald Trump and Carly Fiorina were going back and forth. What strikes me though is that middle class - the words "middle class" were only used three times in that three hour debate and yet defund and Planned Parenthood were used 28 times. That's where the emphasis was. And because of that, I would say the person who was not on the stage who won was Hillary Clinton.

CUOMO: Although her biggest critic has been Carly Fiorina in that field and she was strong last night. So -

GRANHOLM: She was absolutely strong but there was a huge -

ROGERS: Big winner.

GRANHOLM: Obsession (ph) around that, rather than around the middle class and jobs.

CAMEROTA: Jennifer Granholm, Mike Rogers, great to see you guys. Thanks so much for coming in. GRANHOLM: Great to see you too.

CAMEROTA: All right, let's go back to Michaela in New York for a look at other stories.

Hi, Mic.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Not just any stories, the five things you need to know, Alisyn. Here we go.

At number one, Republicans are going after Donald Trump in their second debate, as you've been seeing here on CNN. Carly Fiorina with a strong night in her first time on the main debate stage.

Concerning one million people evacuated after an 8.3 magnitude earthquake rocked Chile. Five people have been killed, others injured. Tsunami alerts have been issued in Peru, Hawaii, southern California and New Zealand.

[08:45:12] Burkina Faso's military overthrowing the government. Soldiers have arrested the central African nation's interim president and prime minister. Meanwhile, French president Hollande condemning the Coup.

Some dramatic scenes unfolding at the Hungary/Serbia border. Hungarian police, you can see, firing tear gas and water cannons at the desperate immigrants and refugees trying to break through a razor wire fence. The U.N. calling this treatment unacceptable.

The Justice Department is expected to announce a criminal settlement with GM today. Officials say General Motors will admit it misled the government and the public about faulty ignition switches that have led to at least a hundred deaths.

For more on the five things, be sure to visit newdayCNN.com, as always, for the latest.

So we will have much more on the debate ahead here on NEW DAY. What did Republican voters have to say about it all? We'll talk to them next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:50:14] CUOMO: All right. The pundits have had their chance to chew through the CNN Republican debate. We said it would change the race and certainly looks like it has. But what do real voters say?

Jacob Kohlhepp, an undecided voter who was leaning towards Marco Rubo heading into the last night, Dale Thomas, a Carly Fiorina supporter, and Bobbin Bergstrom, a Donald Trump supporter, are with us now.

You all saw the debate. You all saw the moments. Do you still feel as resolute as you did going into the debate? Are you still all Trumpified?

BOBBIN BERGSTROM, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: Yes, I would say I am. CUOMO: The same or more or less?

BERGSTROM: Actually the same. I think he did a good job holding back and letting some other people take the stage and get some things out.

CUOMO: Let's play a moment where everyone was watching what would happen when Carly Fiorina and Donald Trump encountered each other. They had many exchanges. More than people were expecting. They thought it was just going to be about her face. It was about so much more, including she went after him for his business management and what she said were bankruptcies. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know, there are a lot of us Americans who believe that we are going to have trouble someday paying back the interest on our debt because politicians have run up mountains of debt using other people's money. That is, in fact, precisely the way you ran your casinos. You ran up mountains of debt as well as losses using other people's money and you were forced to file for bankruptcy not once, not twice, four times. A record four times. Why should we trust you to manage the finances of this nation any differently than you managed the finances of your casinos?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: What did you think about Carly Fiorina and Donald Trump's exchanges?

DALE THOMAS, CARLY FIORINA SUPPORTER: I think Carly took him down every time. There is no way Trump is going to trump Carly. I honestly believe that Carly fights with the facts. Carly fights with her opinions. And I think that Mr. Trump is very good at fighting with bully tactics.

CUOMO: Does she have high ground on business when HP, by many people's accounts, rode down the hill of success during her tenure?

THOMAS: I think she does. And I think that the reason that she does is that she had to make some tough choices. And when you are in a leadership position you have to make tough choices. And I honestly believe that Carly is capable of doing that. She proved it with HP. She had to make choices that were difficult for the people who worked for her. But even members of the board of directors of HP have come out now and shown total support for Carly. So definitely, I think, that she does hold the higher ground.

CAMEROTA: Go ahead, Jacob.

JACOB KOHLHEPP, UNDECIDED VOTER: I think it is night and day. I think when you look at Donald Trump, you see a crony capitalist. I think that's what a lot of people see. Donald Trump has used eminent domain to take land from people that really needed it. I think there's a ton of terrible examples of that in his business record, whereas Carly created jobs, she created innovation, she saved a company. I think that is just night and day. I think Carly is an example of what we need in America. We need innovators, we need leaders. We don't need people like Donald Trump that are trying to sell political snake oil.

CAMEROTA: Jacob, you sound like a Carly Fiorina supporter suddenly. When you went into the debate, you were preferring Marco Rubio. Have you changed?

THOMAS: I've been working on him. I'm working on him.

KOHLHEPP: I've been talking a lot to Gale (ph). I haven't changed yet. But I think that - the way I see it is that if Carly or Marco were able to get the nomination, I would be fully in support of either one of them.

CUOMO: Bobbin, political snake oil. That is what they are calling your man, Trump, a salesman of. Do you buy it?

BERGSTROM: I do not buy it. I think that the numbers speak and the American people, the average American citizen, want someone who is right out there with their opinions. And like it or not, he may have an odd way of presenting himself and a little bit brash, but he's speaking to the American people.

CAMEROTA: But what about all the times that Carly went after him? Who did you think won --

BERGSTROM: Oh, I think Carly held her own last night. She's an amazing woman. And I think he conceded and I could tell on his face that he deferred when he said you're gorgeous or whatever his response to that was.

CAMEROTA: She said the women across this country heard what he said about her face and then he said I think you're a beautiful woman. Is that a little too late for him --

BERGSTROM: Oh, yes. But what else could he do?

CUOMO: Did you believe it, by the way?

BERGSTROM: That he felt that way?

CUOMO: Yeah.

BERGSTROM: I don't think he even was really trying to attack her persona. I think that is just his strategy. He goes after every single person and that's what he does in business and he likes to knock people down. And if he knocks them down, he wins. I don't think it is really about her. He just picks something and he goes for it.

CAMEROTA: Bobbin, Jacob, Dale, great to talk to you. Thanks so much for waking up early with us and for giving us all of your impression.

THOMAS: Our pleasure.

KOHLHEPP: Thank you so much.

BERGSTROM: Thanks for having us. CAMEROTA: Pleasure talking to you.

CUOMO: And by waking up we mean never going to sleep, which we have not done.

[08:54:58] This was an important debate. It changed the race and yet there is still more "Good Stuff" to tell you about today and that's coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: All right, guys. Today's "Good Stuff" comes to us from Alabama. Mom Rachel Bridley (ph) was taking care of some housework with her 4 month old strapped to her chest. An officer approached her home and she thought, uh oh, I'm in trouble. Turns out, the deputy sheriff had an unexpected reason for the visit. Apparently the officer spotted someone who needed a hand and did something. He mowed the lawn. Her entire lawn. Rachel posted this picture on Facebook. Her husband, who apparently works away and works long hours, was really grateful.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You kind of get the 'we're afraid to talk to cops' mentality or fearful of them and it is good to just see them being human, you know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: And cutting the lawn. How about that? That's some great stuff. Complements of Alabama.

CAMEROTA: That's great, Michaela. Thanks so much for that and we'll look forward to seeing you back in New York tomorrow morning. It's been a very interesting 24 hours --

PEREIRA: You guys have done great.

CAMEROTA: -- out here in Simi Valley at the Reagan Library but we're going to be happy to come back, too.

CUOMO: A lot more debate coverage to be had. So let's get right to the "NEWSROOM" with Ms. Carol Costello.