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Ben Carson Makes Controversial Statement Denying a Muslim Should be U.S. President; Carly Fiorina Gains in Recent Polls; Pope to Fly to U.S. from Cuba; Anticipation Builds Ahead of Papal Visit to U.S. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired September 21, 2015 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- women of color is opportunity.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And the Emmy goes to --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota, and Michaela Pereira.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: I never knew there was water in the middle of Central Park. Good morning. Did you know that? Welcome to your NEW DAY. It's Monday, September 21st, 8:00 in the east. Would you vote for someone who doesn't think a Muslim should be president? Ben Carson is asking you to do that by voting for him. And not to be outdone, Donald Trump says some think we have a Muslim president right now. How will this impact their campaigns? We have that ahead.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Also, Carly Fiorina's strong performance in last week's debate catapults her into second place in the latest polling. Plus there's new Democratic polls out this morning and it brings good news for Hillary Clinton. So let's begin our team coverage with CNN's Athena Jones. She's live in Washington for us. Give us all the latest, Athena.

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn. Those comments from Carson and Trump about Muslims are getting a lot of attention that morning, and they're angering a lot of people. The question, of course, is whether this will heart either of them in the polls. This is all coming as yet about outsider candidate, businesswoman Carly Fiorina, is on the rise.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I would not advocate we put a Muslim in charge of this nation.

JONES: This shocking statement by Dr. Ben Carson under a spotlight this morning in the Republican presidential race. On NBC's "Meet the Press" Sunday, Carson said a Muslim president should not be in the Oval Office and that a president's faith should matter to voters.

CARSON: If it's inconsistent with the values and principles of America, then of course it should matter. JONES: Later, when Donald Trump was asked about the possibility of a

Muslim president, he said.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Some people have said it already happened.

JONES: A reference to president Barack Obama. Trump later adding.

TRUMP: He said he was a Christian and he said he is a Christian. I'm willing to take him at his word for that.

JONES: But Carson is doubling down on his controversial comments. In an interview with Washington newspaper "The Hill," Carson said, quote, "Muslims feel that their religion is very much a part of your public life, and that is inconsistent with our principles and our constitution." Democrats were quick to pounce.

BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You judge candidates for president not on their religion, not on the color of their skin, but on their ideas, on what they stand for.

JONES: This as the latest poll CNN/ORC poll shows Trump and Carson losing momentum with voters after the CNN debate. Trump is still the frontrunner, but his lead is slipping as Carly Fiorina makes the biggest jump, rising 12 percentage points.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How many of you saw the debate on Wednesday night?

(APPLAUSE)

JONES: Over half of poll respondents who watched CNN's debate think Fiorina did the best job, Florida Senator Marco Rubio taking home second place, far better than his former mentor, Jeb Bush.

TRUMP: I think Carly had a good night, but I think you gave her a lot of very easy questions.

JONES: Trump now zeroing in on the post-debate star, attacking Fiorina's record as CEO once again Sunday, tweeting, "She did a horrible job at HP she never got another CEO job offer." The GOP frontrunner writing "There is no way that Carly Fiorina can become the Republican nominee."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JONES: When it comes to the comments about Muslims from Trump and Carson, a Muslim member of Congress is now weighing in, saying every American should be disturbed two candidates are, quote, "engaging in and tolerating blatant acts of religious bigotry." Michaela?

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, thank you so much. We appreciate that.

Meanwhile, Hillary Clinton's supporters hardened by their candidates bit rebound in the latest CNN/ORC poll. The former secretary of state regaining much of the lead she lost over the last few months. And if Vice President Biden decides to backs out, well, Clinton benefits big time. Let's look at all the numbers with CNN's senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny. How are you doing?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good morning, Michaela. Hillary Clinton's summertime slide appears to be stabilizing for now. Our new poll shows she's gaining ground among Democrats, a sign perhaps she's at least putting some of those concerns and controversy around her candidacy to rest.

Let's look at some of the new numbers. Clinton sits atop the democratic field at 42 percent. That's up five points from earlier this month, followed by Bernie Sanders at 24 percent and Joe Biden at 22 percent. When you take Biden out of the equation, her support soars. She's at 57 percent in our new poll, while Sanders, 28 percent. She's climbing and Sanders is falling, the margin now 29 points from only 16 earlier this month.

Now, this is why so many Democrats are keeping a close eye on whether Joe Biden decides to jump in. If he does, the Democratic contest is much more competitive. Now, there is no concrete timeline for his decision, but one democratic supporter of Biden tells me this morning we'll likely know within the next two weeks.

[08:05:00] One person who is not an obstacle is Jill Biden. To push back against some reports that she does not want her husband to run, her spokesman issued this statement, saying, "Of course Dr. Biden would be on board if her husband decides to run for president. But they haven't made that decision yet."

Now, in a Sunday interview, Hillary Clinton would not comment on his potential candidacy, saying the vice president deserves space to make a decision. She, of course, is trying to strengthen her own standing for what would be an interesting Democratic primary race. But on "Face the Nation" on Sunday, she was asked to describe the real Hillary Clinton. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am a real person, with all the pluses and minuses that go along with being that. And I've been in the public eye for so long that so I think, you know, it's like the feature you see in some magazines sometimes, real people actually go shopping, you know?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: That was real Hillary Clinton. But all the laughter aside here, after a few reinventions along the way, her burden, Alisyn, is still to appear authentic to voters in a year they're craving it more than ever.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely. All right, Jeff, thanks so much for all of that.

I want to get back now to Ben Carson's comments about Islam being inconsistent with the U.S. Constitution and that the U.S. president could not be Muslim. Carson's spokesperson, Armstrong Williams, was on NEW DAY this morning, and we asked him what Dr. Carson was thinking.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARMSTRONG WILLIAMS, BEN CARSON'S BUSINESS MANAGER: He was thinking like someone who loves America first, who wants to protect America. He understands that there are tenants of Islam that hates Jews, will kill homosexuals, will kill Muslims, do not advocate the belief and value systems that made America into the country it is today. It may have been an inconvenient truth but it is the truth.

CAMEROTA: Armstrong, you're talking about an extremist radical strain, not the strain that millions of American Muslims practice here in this country. There are more American-Muslims then there are Episcopalians. You're talking about a radical strain.

WILLIAMS: Dr. Carson was asked his opinion. His opinion was the timing at this point, he would not vote for a Muslim in the White House. This is why he's not a politician. This is why he's not trying to be politically correct. This is America. It's a place of freedom of speech.

CAMEROTA: And freedom of religion.

WILLIAMS: Express how you believe and feel.

CAMEROTA: And freedom of religion.

CAMEROTA: This is not an issue of religion to Dr. Carson. This is an issue of one's belief system, of how they're going to govern. Your beliefs, what you believe in, how you look upon people, how you value people, it's dictated by what you believe.

CAMEROTA: Armstrong, let me read to you Article 6 of the constitution, which says that anyone of any religion can serve in public office. Here it is, "No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States." Dr. Carson's belief system violates that part of the constitution.

WILLIAMS: Dr. Carson, Alisyn, as you're alluding to, was not speaking about religion, not at all. His, like most Americans in their hearts, if they search themselves and you ask those questions, if you see what's going on in the world today, and what we're becoming as a nation, if you search yourself deeply and ask yourself, at this time in the history of our country, in the question posed to him, which he answered truthfully, is that he would not be comfortable with someone who shares the Islamic Muslim faith in the White House.

CAMEROTA: Is Dr. Carson only --

WILLIAMS: If Dr. Carson -- let me finish. If Dr. Carson, because of his love for America, he is willing -- everything is not about winning the White House for him. It's about standing up for what he believes in, telling the truth, even if it makes others uncomfortable. It is what he believes.

CAMEROTA: Is Dr. Carson comfortable with anyone other than a Christian being president?

ZELENY: It is not about Christian. It is not about Jew. It is not about religion. This is about what one believes and what they will advocate if they become president of these United States, a place that you and I -- and I have no doubt about it -- love and cherish and wants to protect. And Dr. Carson is saying what he believes, and he believes that, Alisyn, and he will not take it back.

CAMEROTA: Dr. Carson is talking about religion, Armstrong. He says it here. Let me read you his own words. "Muslims feel that their religion is very much part of your public life and what you do as a public official, and that's inconsistent with our principles and our constitution." What is so striking about this, Armstrong, is that Dr. Carson also believes that his religion is very much a part of his public life. Look at all of the outcry over the Kentucky clerk Kim Davis who was putting her religion over the law of the land in terms of gay marriage licenses, and he and others supported her. He does think this is about religion, and he does think that sometimes, religion can trump the law, as we've seen.

[08:10:20] WILLIAMS: That is unequivocally untrue. Dr. Carson made it clear, even with the situation in Kentucky, that this is a nation about the rule of law. And he embraced and supported the Supreme Court ruling. He may have thought they should have shown more compassion instead of putting her in jail, but absolutely we're a nation of laws, and Dr. Carson's religion would never get in the way of upholding the rule of law in this land ever. He's very clear about that, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Muslim civil rights groups called for him to get out of the race. Obviously that's not happening. But will he sit down with Muslims today to clarify how he feels about them?

WILLIAMS: Only, Alisyn, you and others feel there's something to clarify. You don't need to clarify what you believe in. It is consistent. It is who you are. You believe in America. You love this country. You've seen what's happening in Europe. You see what is happening in the Middle East, in the world. You see what's happening on military bases where people use their faith to shoot our innocent men and women who put their lives on the front lines. What is happening to America? If Dr. Carson is willing to speak for the Americans who are solid in their hearts, who don't want to speech this inconvenient truth, then let it be. Let the chips fall where they may. He believes in telling the truth. You may not like the truth, but it is the truth. You -- and when you tell the truth, Alisyn, there is nothing to apologize for.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: There's so much to talk about. He maintains it's not about religion. It clearly is about religion for him.

CUOMO: It's also not about truth because this is Ben Carson's truth. You certainly cannot say that it is an objective truth, that all Muslims are against the U.S. constitution. But, look, is this going to hurt his numbers, because that's what we're talking about, is an election, right? Probably not.

CAMEROTA: You don't think so?

CUOMO: His base, the people who like Ben Carson may, in fact, share this. It will be a test of their tolerance, because that's what this is about.

CAMEROTA: We have two prominent Muslim-Americans coming on in a few minutes to talk about their reaction and what they're hoping for now from Dr. Carson.

PEREIRA: Meanwhile, headlines for you. This morning, two American hostages held for months by Houthi rebels in Yemen are free. However, the fate of another American still being held is not known. CNN senior international correspondent Nick Paton Walsh is live from Beirut with the latest on all of this for us. Nick?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Michaela, agonizing when first reports suggested three Americans were in fact on that plane that left the Yemeni capital Sana'a, bound for the capital in the east, it turned out according to American officials that was not the case. The third American was left behind was Scott Darden, and Sam Farran respectively were back with their family after a month's long ordeal.

We understand that this was permitted by the Houthi rebels that were holding them captive as a good will gesture. Those Houthis are in a brutal civil war with a Saudi Arabia backed coalition. They are closing in on the capital which the Houthis still control, Sana'a. They put them on the plane as a good will gesture. We understand the Americans are backing the Saudi Arabian campaign there. There were three other Saudis and a Briton on that plane. The U.K. government has confirmed that latter fact. The hope being the Houthis that traveled with them might be able to start kind of peace talks. That, many diplomats say, is a long spot. Pessimism around the negotiations in that group. But still after yesterday's tense moments, two American families very much relieved, one still in deep concern. Back to you, Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Nick, thank you for staying on that story for us. We'll check back with you later on.

So the Pope is making his highly anticipated arrival in the United States of America tomorrow -- Washington, D.C., New York City, Philadelphia, all on the agenda. Right now still in Cuba. And his trip is already forever etched in history. Let's get the latest from CNN's Patrick Oppmann, our man in Havana, who taught me so much in Cuba this weekend. He joins us live.

PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Reporter: Hola, amigo. The Pope took off 10 minutes ago. This is the city where Christopher Columbus arriving in Cuba first spotted land. He said it was the most beautiful sight his eyes had ever seen. The Pope will be there for just a few hours before heading on to Santiago, visiting one of the most important shrines in Cuba. We expect that Raul Castro, Cuba's president, will be with him every stop of the way. Then he goes to the United States, flying American Airlines from Santiago to Washington, D.C. That's never been done before.

[08:15:00] Other stops in the U.S. include addressing Congress, visiting New York City. He will be all along the East Coast. It's going to be a very, very busy week for the Pope, but he's already, as you said, Chris, made a big impact here in Cuba.

And perhaps the most interesting thing, you know as we saw yesterday when we were in Havana's Revolution Square, when the news broke that he had met with former Cuban leader Fidel Castro. They were together for about 40 minutes, the Pope giving him gifts and books, Fidel giving him a book of his own about religion. And these two men, these two world figures, chatting very amicably. But of course, a very, very different man, Fidel Castro, all but outlawed religion here. The Pope is finding a very different Cuba. He's finding a Cuba that is embracing him and embracing religion and we expect him to get more of that, frankly, rock star treatment throughout the next several days as he tours Cuba, Chris.

CAMEROTA: I'll take it here, Patrick. It has been fascinating to watch the reception there. Thanks so much.

Well, two monster wildfires burning in northern California, destroying nearly 1600 homes. The valley and butte fires are among the most destructive in the state's history. Official says one person has died and nearly a dozen homes burned in a new fire that began over the weekend south of Monterey.

PEREIRA: A Massachusetts woman and her boyfriend are due in court today on charges they were behind the death of the little girl that became known nationwide as "Baby Doe." One of the accused is the girl's mother, the other, her boyfriend. The little girl was finally identified last week as Bella Bond. A source says the little girl was allegedly punched by the mother's boyfriend because he believed the little one was possessed.

Such a situation on adults failing this little girl. The state, the system failing this little girl. The Department of Child and Family Services had taken away other kids in the family. They had been to visit Bella numerous times.

CAMEROTA: Right. Which is why, as you've explained to me, why people in the apartment complex didn't know that she was missing - That Bella was missing or didn't put two and two together, because the mother said the DSS had taken her. That was the lie.

CUOMO: Well in this type of situation, you start with, who killed this kid? And the authorities are going to go from there. Let's see what they find.

All right. So Pope is coming. What do you think he wants you to know? His message and his mission. We're going to talk to Cardinal Timothy Dolan, the Archbishop of New York, coming up. There he is. Good to see you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:20:59] CUOMO: Catholics and non-Catholics alike are excited and preparing to welcome Pope Francis, Francisco, on his first visit to the United States tomorrow. Now he's going to go to Washington, D.C. It'll be the first Pope to ever address Congress. He's then coming to New York and will wind up in Philadelphia. They're having a big council on family. The Pope really wanting to communicate the message of what he thinks the family should be here and around the world. A big deal. Right now he's in Cuba. We were there this weekend, saw the huge and historic occasion that he created there. What will happen when he comes here?

Let's talk to someone who can help us understand. Cardinal Timothy Dolan, the Archbishop of New York. Father, great to have you here --

CARDINAL TIMOTHY DOLAN, ARCHBISHOP OF NEW YORK: Good to be here with you, Christoper.

CUOMO: -- as always.

DOLAN: Appreciate the invite.

CUOMO: Do you think that it's almost divinely inspired that Pope Francis is coming to America right now, with what we're experiencing in our own culture?

DOLAN: I think so. Look, he's -- We like to use the term "good news," that's what the Gospel means. "The good news." The world is filled with bad news. All we hear about is division and violence and set backs and disappointments and war and hunger and refugees. He wants to give some good news.

You know what we call him? The pontiff. That's the Latin word for "bridge builder." He's our pontiff between us and God and bridges among ourselves. So you bet it's providential that he would come to New York with St. John Paul II, called the capital of the world. The United Nations, talk about the family. Go to Cuba, which is sort of -- was kind of a good exhibit A about what countries can do when they come together in dialogue and respect with the United States and Cuba. He's going to point out good news. I don't know about you, but I need it.

CUOMO: Absolutely. We do "The Good Stuff" every day. Not the way Pope Francis does. When he gets to Congress, do you think there will be any of this going on? Because we know how strong he is about what he thinks about the excesses of capitalism can be, which is not unusual from a Catholic's perspective. But it would be very unusual from a congressional one.

DOLAN: Yeah. Yeah. He's got a touch of what you might call "the Hebrew prophet" in him. You know, when we talk about the Ezekiel and Isaiah that our Jewish neighbors celebrate, and rightly so, and so do we look to the Jewish prophets as a source of revelation too. So he's got a bit of challenge. I wouldn't say it's (INAUDIBLE) reprimand. So I bet you you're going to see a little bit of discomfort on both

sides of the aisle in Congress. But in general, he doesn't so much do this, as much as affirm and reach out. And that's what I think he's going to do. He's a good teacher. He's a classical Jesuit. He's an effective pedagogue. He knows one of the more effective ways to teach is to reaffirm what's good. To congratulate us on what we're doing well. And when you do that, a savvy person says, boy, that's sure good of him, that he's affirming what we do good. On the other hand, are we doing it as well as we should? And there's where the examination of conscience comes in. I bet you that will be his pedagogy.

CUOMO: Now, just to remind people, during the conclave, you were there.

DOLAN: I was there.

CUOMO: You and the other - of course you were there - but you and the other New York -- not New York -- the others American cardinals, you were key. You supported Bergoglio -- I'm not saying within the conclave, I'm not asking you to give anything away -- but when I was there with you, you know, when Bergoglio became Pope Francis, you were like this, this man -- we love this man. This is a great man. And to the media, we were like Bergoglio, you know, unless you had covered the previous conflict.

What did you see in him? Because it's not an election. It's a selection. It's a divine hand and what you're trying to figure out. You explained that to me many times. I kept saying election., you kept saying -- What did you see in him that you think is being made manifest now?

DOLAN: Well here - All right, it's --Yes, it's what we saw in him. It's what we heard about him. And it's what we heard him say in those days leading up to the conclave. What we saw is a man who exudes a sense of interior peace. A man who knows what he's about. What we saw is a man who is extraordinarily simple and sincere. What we saw is a man of prayer. You know, who can sleep during the conclaves? Most of us would sneak down to chapel at night and a couple times I was there, guess who was there? Jorge Bergoglio. So a man of prayer and faith.

[08:25:02] We also heard his brother bishops in South America speak well about him. This guy is a leader. This guy -- You wouldn't know it from the headlines, but he's always a go-to guy when we need wisdom or somebody to bring us together. It's what we heard him say. He made a very astute intervention during that time of meetings with the College of Cardinals before we entered the Sistine Chapel. It really touched our hearts. It was those things that came together, I think, that so many cardinals detected the movement of the Holy Spirit there.

CUOMO: We're doing a documentary tomorrow night, 9:00. We went to Buenos Aires, where he grew up, and we're going to show the Pope as the man, how he became who he is right now.

DOLAN: Way to go. CUOMO: And I'll tell you, the consistency that people will see in who

this man was as a boy, stories like, he has very small handwriting.

DOLAN: He does.

CUOMO: And a teach said to him, your handwriting is too small, Bergoglio, you've got to make it bigger. I think you're trying to trick me on the answers. And he says, who am I to have big handwriting?

DOLAN: Wow. Wow.

CUOMO: As a child. So it'll be an interesting take on it. Let me ask you something as the Archbishop, the Cardinal here in New York. What we see going on in politics with religious tolerance right now, most notably what we saw over the weekend about Muslims, Ben Carson saying Muslims can't be president. Forget about the Constitution. What's your message to the faithful about how to see other faiths?

DOLAN: Here's - my message would be that of Pope Francis. What he says is there's no better force in the world for affirming the nobility, the innate dignity of the human person and the sanctity of human life. There's no engine that is more for genuine human progress than religion. What the Pope is constantly reminded is this tragic caricature that we have of religion today as being a source of intolerance, hatred, division, violence, persecution. That's a nauseating perversion of what religion is meant to be. That's going to be his message.

I think, Chris, one of the reasons he's coming to New York is because we've been a living laboratory of friendship and amity when it comes to religion. One of the things he told me when I said, Holy Father, what would you especially like to do in New York? He said, I'd like to have an inter-religious meeting. He said, you New Yorkers, you're a light to the world, you Americans, in showing how religions can get along and respecting one another. That's one of the things, I think, he's going to reaffirm in the American drama, is that we need to be a light to the world in religious toleration and freedom of religion because the world so desperately needs it.

CUOMO: Religion should be about tolerance, not intolerance. You know in Cuba, they were chanting that Francisco is the new light. He will change everything. And just to not put the burden on him - because you got to keep relations good with the Pope, this is your city - I'll take care of you with the cigars.

DOLAN: Yeah, you're on. All right. Way to go, Chris.

CUOMO: I'll take you on.

DOLAN: Good being with you. We'll see you through these historic days.

CUOMO: Absolutely. It will be a privilege to have this as part of profession.

DOLAN: Privilege to have you with us. Way to go.

CUOMO: Cardinal, thank you very much.

CNN, of course, is going to have comprehensive coverage of the Pope's visit to the United States. We'll be with him every step of the way in full force. Tomorrow night, as I said, this is a "SPECIAL REPORT" from us. "THE PEOPLE'S POPE." You'll get to Jorge Bergoglio as the man who became Pope Francis. Tomorrow, 9:00 p.m.

Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: Chris, what treats did you bring Michaela and me?

CUOMO: I have things for you.

CAMEROTA: Do you?

CUOMO: So behave. Be nice, compliment my hair, all the nice things I like to hear.

CAMEROTA: All the usual things you demand. We will continue. All right. Thanks so much.

Meanwhile, GOP candidates Ben Carson and Donald Trump facing heat for comments they've made about Islam and Muslims. Two prominent Muslim- Americans will be on NEW DAY with their response next.

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