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Pope to Address Americans from White House; What Will the Pope & Obama Talk About?; Trump and Carson Under Fire for Anti-Muslim Rhetoric; Yogi Berra Dead at 90; Trump: 'I Don't Talk about Obama's Birthplace anymore'. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired September 23, 2015 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a rock star here in Washington.

[05:58:05] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The world is waiting to see what Pope Francis says before Congress.

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president is not meeting with Pope Francis to advance a political agenda.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All eyes zeroed in on Pope Francis.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nobody wants to have a protectee go down on their watch.

DR. BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't care what a person's religious beliefs are.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't have to defend President Obama. He's not going to defend me.

GOV. JOHN KASICH (R-OH), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm not going to go out and say, you know, outrageous things, or make promises that I can't keep, to win.

STEPHEN COLBERT, HOST, CBS'S "THE LATE SHOW WITH STEPHEN COLBERT": Is there anybody you'd like to apologize to right now yourself?

TRUMP: Uh, no.

COLBERT: No?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota and Michaela Pereira.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY. And what a day that will be. Wednesday, September 23, 6 p.m. in the East. Alisyn and Mick are in New York, and I am coming to you live from the White House. The South Portico behind us, this is where history will be made.

Just a few hours from now, Pope Francis will become the third pontiff to visit the White House. But this is a unique man, moment and potential message in our history.

As we witness the politics of intolerance all around us in the presidential election, here comes a man to talk about immigration and tolerance who is an immigrant, himself, from Latin America; to talk about religious tolerance as the head of one of the biggest churches in the world.

How will he use the huge audience he will have here in America? Some of it is a mystery, like many things about this Pope and Catholicism. Some of it is not.

So let's begin our comprehensive coverage with chief national security correspondent Jim Sciutto, who (AUDIO GAP) -- lot of practicalities like security, Jim. Not only do you have a president but a pope. Big challenge.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: No question, in history, of course. This is a history of firsts: Pope Francis' visit in his lifetime to the U.S.; the first time you've had a president and vice president greet any world leader as he or she lands in the U.S.

And then, of course, later this morning, from the White House, Pope Francis' first address directly to the American people. He's going to be doing that in English to help get himself across.

But as you know, he also speaks in gestures. From that gesture yesterday of riding from Andrews Air Force Base downtown in that tiny little Fiat to, out of respect for the Yom Kippur holiday last night, his first night in the U.S., a very quiet one, no public events.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO (voice-over): For the first time, Pope Francis is waking up on U.S. soil this morning, marking the beginning of a nearly week- long visit that millions of people of all faiths have been anticipating.

Today, 15,000 visitors are expected on the White House South Lawn to witness day two of the Pope's visit. Pope Francis and President Obama will speak to the world. Then Obama will present Pope Francis with a customary gift and hold a one-on-one meeting with only translators present. It remains unknown what the two leaders will likely discuss.

VALERIE JARRETT, WHITE HOUSE SENIOR ADVISOR: With two men of this caliber who share ideals and who share values about human decency, respect for human differences, I think that it's going to be a really, really positive visit.

SCIUTTO: The moment the pontiff touched down in Washington Tuesday afternoon, he made history. BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So glad you're in

the United States.

SCIUTTO: Never before had a sitting American president and vice president and their families welcomed a foreign leader.

The people's Pope leaving Andrews Air Force Base not in a limo or Popemobile but in a relatively inexpensive and compact Italian-made Fiat. It's a historic visit requiring an equally historic amount of security.

WILLIAM BRATTON, COMMISSIONER, NYPD: We planned for the worst or the unexpected.

SCIUTTO: The Secret Service and FBI coordinating one of the largest security operations ever, deeming the sometimes unpredictable Pope's stay a national security special event.

DAN SONGINO (PH), FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT: With this Pope he could get out anywhere. So you have to resource allocate all of those -- those special weapons teams and people in the crowd, really everywhere along the route.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: And later this morning, another first when the Pope leaves the White House. Here he's going to get his first ride in his Popemobile. He'll head on to St. Matthew's Cathedral to meet with bishops. That's the cathedral where John F. Kennedy was buried after he was assassinated. And then from there on to Catholic University again in that Popemobile.

And Chris, that will be the first chance for many Americans to see him face to face. We expect thousands of people along that parade route to see him up close. And we know this Pope, he loves to connect with people. I'm sure he's going to enjoy that moment, as well. I think it will be enjoyable for everybody.

You know, Jim, you and I have known each other 25 years. We've covered a lot of events. This one does feel special. And one of the curiosities about what is going to happen here is what the Pope is going to say in all of these different settings.

And we know this. What he says in public is often what is different than what he says in private, especially with world leaders. We saw that in Cuba. Will that be true today when he meets with the president, or will it be all smiles like it was in the press-op, or will there be some tension?

Let's get to CNN White House correspondent Michelle Kosinski for that part of the story. Michelle, what do we know?

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Chris.

The Pope arrives here at the White House around 9 a.m. this morning. Around 10:15 he will meet with the president. We're talking just the Pope and the president in the Oval Office with two translators present, if needed.

But the White House says that this is expected to be in English, which the Pope has been practicing. They say it's expected to be personable and friendly. It will last about 45 minutes to an hour and will surely touch on climate change, poverty and Cuba.

But of course, there are questions. For example, will the Pope express irritation over the administration's stances on abortion, on gay marriage? This is the Pope, remember, and on hot-button issues, topics don't always come up as you might expect.

You look at the meeting that the Pope just had in Cuba with President Raul Castro. I mean, Castro walked away not feeling rebuked over Cuba's lack of freedoms and human rights, but he told reporters the Pope made him feel like he might want to start going to church again and start praying again.

Look at problem's President Obama's last meeting with the Pope last year. There was all this political wrangling going on in the U.S. over the Affordable Care Act, but the president said it didn't really come up. Although the Vatican did express an interest that religious groups would be able to opt out of providing contraception, for example.

The White House says this is going to be about finding common ground, not about politics -- Chris.

CUOMO: Easy to say. But what will be the reality? There are so many points of division in terms of what this Pope thinks should be going on and what the current state of affairs in the U.S. is. It will be interesting to follow. Michelle, thank you very much.

So after meeting with President Obama, Pope Francis is going to leave the White House aboard that Popemobile, if that's what you want to call it, that Fiat. Tens of thousands of people are expected to line the streets along the parade route.

[06:05:06] We have CNN's Carol Costello live at the National Mall.

Spectators already coming behind you, Carol. Most of them are just your fans. But what do you think will happen throughout the morning?

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: I wish that were so.

It's so exciting down here already, Chris. There are literally thousands of people already here. In fact, I just spoke to my man Evan. He's an American University student. He's in his early 20s. He's been around this area since 1 a.m. this morning. He wants to get the perfect spot to see Pope Francis.

And he's exactly the kind of person, Chris, that Pope Francis would like to see come down. He was raised Catholic. He considers himself a lapsed Catholic now, but the Pope intrigues him. He is open to things. And I think that will bring a smile to Pope Francis's face.

OK, let's get down to brass tacks. Security is very, very heavy. Most of the streets are blocked around the parade route. A very short parade, by the way. Just 15 minutes. The Pope will leave from the south side of the White House. He'll travel down 17th. He'll turn on Constitution, and then he'll turn on 15th, and the parade will be over.

But it doesn't matter for the thousands gathered here. They're down here for a special moment; and maybe, just maybe, the Pope will get out of his specially-made Popemobile and greet the crowds. That's what everybody is hoping, and that's why everybody is down here.

Back to you, Chris.

CUOMO: You know, Carol, but there's such a mixed feeling about that, because we saw what happened in Cuba. People were able to get up to him, and they seemed a little hysterical. They weren't moved away right away. So the security concerns are so paramount.

How cool is it that the Popemobile is going to be a Jeep Wrangler? We'll check back with you all morning long. It's going to be an incredible scene along those streets.

So you have the moment, and then you have the message. What can we expect this Pope to say this morning? We've got great insight for you. John Allen, CNN senior Vatican analyst and the associate editor of "Crux" magazine. He's also the author of "The Francis Miracle."

And we have Francis Rooney, the former U.S. ambassador to the Holy See, also known as the Vatican. He is the author of "The Global Vatican."

Gentlemen, thank you very much. We have what is seen as politics and policy in this. But also then the religiosity of this and what he wants to convey on a moral standard.

John, let's start with that. In terms of what the mandate is for the Pope here and his message, coming as Pope, what do we see as the headline?

JOHN ALLEN, CNN SENIOR VATICAN ANALYST: Well, Chris, I mean fundamentally, he's traveling not as a politician but as a pastor. So I think you're going to expect to hear messages that are primarily spiritual and moral. He sees himself as a voice of conscience on the global stage.

That said, there is a kind of political to-do list on this trip. I think he's going to want to encourage the United States to continue to be an open, welcoming society, particularly with regard to immigrants. Remember, he is himself the son of immigrants. His grandparents immigrated to Argentina in the 1920s. I think he's going to want to talk about that experience.

I would also expect, Chris, we'd hear something from the Pope on the issue of religious freedom. That's part of the American heritage, and it's been a flashpoint of tensions between the Catholic community and other religious communities and public authorities. I would expect all of that to be in the mix.

Also, Chris, bear in mind, the Pope is a politically savvy figure. He's aware that there has been some ambivalence about some of his positions. This is his opportunity to speak past the media filter and introduce himself directly to the American public. I would expect him to take full advantage of that.

CUOMO: Ambassador Rooney, this is a pope and a man that we know doesn't really care too much about the criticism that comes his way. And when we're talking about these different categories that John laid out, how attuned is your sense of where the Vatican is in terms of observing what's going on in U.S. culture and politics right now? And how much will that be the premise for what we hear from the Pope, in your estimation?

FRANCIS ROONEY, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO HOLY SEE: Well, I think, as John says, the Pope is the consummate global moral authority as well as the head of a sovereign state. And as such, I think he will stay with the large themes, the global themes and try to urge the United States to rise up and -- and reach towards those lofty goals.

But it's inevitable that there will be political ramifications. And I think we could expect, at least from my experience, dealing with the secretary of state's office, that they will be studied up and deeply in tune with the responses that Americans have had to what the Pope has said so far.

CUOMO: It's interesting. Behind us right now, people are flooding in. They just opened the access. And there are all these people waving Argentina flags and calling for the Pope and staring with fixed eyes on the stage. And we're hours from when anything's going to happen. It's a measure of the excitement here.

Now John, in terms of what the Pope said on the plane yesterday, it's interesting how responsive he was. You know, I'm contradicting a point I just made to Ambassador Rooney. But the -- he was very responsive to criticism that he is left. And he was making the point that everything he's saying is right from Catholic orthodoxy in terms of positions of the Vatican.

How true is that? And when you look at the Pope, can you look at him through the traditional political lens of left and right? Or do you have to look at him through more of a religious Catholic lens?

[06:10:06] ALLEN: Well, Chris, I think, you know, Pope Francis is where that division between left and right goes to die.

I mean, on some issues, he's going to come off by American standards as remarkably progressive: immigration, climate change, concern for the poor, war and peace, all of that.

But on other matters, particularly having to do with the family, with sexual morality, abortion, same-sex marriage and so on, by our standards, he'll come off as quite right-wing. Truth of it is, the word I think he would use for himself is

orthodox. Now, you mentioned a bit ago that the Pope doesn't care about criticism. I'm not sure that's exactly right. I think he's determined not to be hobbled by criticism, but he knows that if there is blow-back and resistance that is based on what he sees as a misunderstanding, he needs to try to clear away that misunderstanding.

And that's what I think he was doing yesterday. You know, he was asked about the news we cover, is the Pope still Catholic? And he jokingly said, "Well, if you need me to, I'll recite the Creed," which is the prayer that Catholics say at mass stating their beliefs.

But I think he was concerned to make this message to America. And he's not coming here as a left-wing or right-wing figure. He's coming here as a voice of conscience that wants to speak to everyone.

CUOMO: Well, and right, that becomes a metaphor here, doesn't it, ambassador? Let's end on that thought, that within Catholicism, it's not about the rules. It's about the rationale for the rules and how you apply them to different situations. That's where this Pope is trying to create some space between the church that he inherited and the church that he'll deliver.

Politically, it's the same thing, right? When he talks about capitalism, it's not whether it's good or bad. It's how it's applied here in the United States. The question is, is whether or not he is trying to be provocative and some indications are, yes, he will be.

ROONEY: Well, I think his capitalist commentary is rooted in his Argentine experience, where it's a totally different situation than we have in the United States. They have no safety net for the poor. Crony corrupt capitalism, large family and corporate enterprises that are embedded with the state.

And I hope he learns here and sees that our unique combination of freedom and of individual and economic freedom has created a different economic model that has provided more to more people than any government system yet. And I think that would be a great outcome for this trip.

I should say also, that he has also resisted -- he's resisted being one way or the other. He's criticized what he called an irresponsible populism in Argentina. And when he spoke originally about social justice, he said, "I'm not calling for a welfare mentality."

CNN made a point of reporting on that last year when he said that. So he's -- as John said, he resists being pigeonholed right or left.

CUOMO: Ambassador Rooney, thank you very much.

John Allen, I'll be leaning on you throughout the morning.

And let's not forget: one of Francis's signature phrases is "haciendo un lio," "making a mess." He likes to mix it up, likes to get into controversial subjects and push the envelope. So let's see what he does with that opportunity this morning.

And of course, CNN is going to have special coverage of this White House ceremony and all of Pope Francis's events throughout the day.

And tomorrow, NEW DAY is going to be live at the U.S. Capitol ahead of what is definitely history, by any measure. The first Pope to address a joint session of Congress. And he's going to deliver his speech in English, Alisyn. Remember, that's not his first language. He doesn't have a lot of comfort with it. Will that change how spontaneous he can be? But one way or the other, everybody will be able to understand it.

CAMEROTA: We like people who mix it up. So it will be great to watch your coverage today, Chris.

We'll get back to you in a moment.

But first we need to talk about mixing it up on the campaign trail. Ben Carson and Donald Trump spending part of the past 24 hours trying to explain their stance on Muslim-Americans. Can Muslims serve as president and does Donald Trump still believe President Obama is not American?

CNN's Athena Jones is live for us in Washington with more. Good morning, Athena.

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn.

Trump defended himself again on CBS. In a response to a question about the man at his town hall who said that President Obama was a Muslim, that America had a Muslim problem, and who advocated getting rid of Muslims. Trump said the man's question didn't mean he was a bigot. Take a listen to what else he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I don't have to defend President Obama. He's not going to defend me.

I love the Muslims. I have many, many friends. We can say there were no problems with the Muslims. There is no problem. There's no terrorism. There's no problem. There's no anything. They didn't knock down the World Trade Center. To the best of my knowledge, the people that knocked down the World Trade Center, you know where they -- they didn't fly back to Sweden.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: So Trump is not backing down on this point, and a lot of his base, the people who were out supporting him, agree with what he's saying.

By the way, Trump is also not answering questions about whether President Obama is a Muslim. Meanwhile, Ben Carson, who said Sunday he wouldn't advocate

having a Muslim in the White House, is now shifting his position. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARSON: I said that anybody who embraces our American values and our Constitution is somebody who is acceptable to me. And of course, if they don't, I don't want them to be the president of the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[06:15:14] JONES: So Carson says he hasn't changed his position here. Of course, a lot of folks would say that changing positions is something politicians do; and what voters like about Carson is that he's not a politician.

In any case, this issue is not going away. We'll have to see if it hurts either of these candidates in the polls -- Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right, Athena. Well, let's actually play that sound from Donald Trump on "The Late Show with Stephen Colbert." He was asked on whether he thinks the president is an American citizen. He refused to answer, even after he was bribed. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COLBERT: Let's talk about immigration for just a second.

TRUMP: OK.

COLBERT: OK. I know that you believe that illegal immigrants should all be deported. True?

TRUMP: That's true.

COLBERT: That's true? OK.

TRUMP: We have to bring people -- look, we have a country, we have borders. We don't have a border right now. No. 1, we're going to build a wall. No. 2, we're going to...

COLBERT: OK.

TRUMP: Listen to this, even with your crowd.

COLBERT: No, they love -- they love the wall. People love the wall.

TRUMP: We have to have a wall. We have to have a border. And in that wall we're going to have a beautiful big fat door where people can -- they come into the country, and they come -- listen to me.

COLBERT: OK. TRUMP: A beautiful door where people can come into the country,

but they have to come in legally. Two thousand years ago, you have the Great Wall of China, 13,000 miles long.

COLBERT: Jesus helped build that.

TRUMP: Here we're really talking about -- you're right. You're right. But here you're really talking about 1,000 miles. You're talking about 1,000 miles. Because in certain areas -- it's 2,000 but you need it in a thousand miles. We can have a great and beautiful wall. When it will be up, it will stop. We'll have our border. And guess what? Nobody comes in unless they have their papers.

COLBERT: All right. I'm going to throw you up a big fat meatball for you to hit out of park right now. OK?

TRUMP: Good.

COLBERT: This is the last time you ever have to address this question if you hit the ball.

TRUMP: OK.

COLBERT: Big old -- there's like sauce all over my hands, this meatball is so big. OK?

TRUMP: I want to hear this one.

COLBERT: Barack Obama born in the United States? Go.

TRUMP: Let me just...

COLBERT: Was he? It's a meatball.

TRUMP: I know.

COLBERT: It's hanging out there. Right there. Come on.

TRUMP: And do you want to know -- I don't talk about it anymore.

COLBERT: You don't talk about it?

TRUMP: I talk about jobs. I talk about our veterans being horribly treated. I just don't discuss that...

COLBERT: You know that meatball is now being dragged down the steps of the subway by a rat.

TRUMP: You're right; you're right.

COLBERT: You missed the meatball.

TRUMP: I saw that rat. That was not pretty.

COLBERT: You missed the meatball. You missed the meatball. TRUMP: I talk about jobs. I'm talking about the vets who are

treated like third-class citizens; they're treated worse than the illegals. I mean, the vets in this country are so mistreated, terribly. I'm talking about the military building up. Those are the things I'm talking about. I'm not talking about that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: All right. We will have much more of Donald Trump's appearance on Stephen Colbert coming up with our pundits.

Meanwhile, Democratic presidential frontrunner Hillary Clinton finally breaking her silence on the Keystone Pipeline, now saying she is against the project. Her decision immediately drew praise from liberals and environmental groups and criticism from Republican presidential candidates.

Clinton said she had not revealed her position until now, because she did not want to interfere with an ongoing State Department review.

PEREIRA: General John Allen, the nation's so-called ISIS czar, is stepping down. Allen informing the White House and the State Department that he will leave his post in early November. Sources say he has grown increasingly frustrated with the administration's policies.

Meanwhile, top U.S. military commanders are urging the White House to provide arms and ammunition to a coalition of 5,000 Syrian rebels now fighting ISIS in northern Syria.

CAMEROTA: Sad breaking news overnight. New York Yankees legend Yogi Berra has died at the age of 90. The Hall of Fame catcher helped the Pinstripes win ten World Series championships over his long and storied career. CNN's Boris Sanchez is here with more.

Hi, Boris.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Alisyn, Michaela.

He used to say, "It ain't over till it's over." And sadly, this morning we have to report it is over for Yogi Berra. The Yankee legend leaving behind a lasting legacy as the heart of baseball.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ (voice-over): Yogi Berra, one of the greatest catchers in baseball history, shaped American culture both on and off the field.

GEORGE H.W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It was Yogi Berra who said you can observe by lot by just watching.

SANCHEZ: Fans watched the Hall of Famer play with the New York Yankees for an astounding 17 seasons, going on to win 10 World Series championships. Born in St. Louis in 1925, Lawrence Peter Berra left school after

the eighth grade to work and follow his dream, baseball. Yogi went on to play in more World Series games than any other player in the Major Leagues, earning 15-time all-star status.

Beloved for his charisma, he became famous for his colorful phrases known as Yogi-isms.

YOGI BERRA, BASEBALL HALL OF FAMER: It ain't over until it's over.

It's deja vu all over again.

I really don't know I say them. It just comes out.

[06:19:59] SANCHEZ: He played his last season for the Yankees in 1963 and was inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame in 1972.

Yogi Berra died at the age of 90 from natural causes, leaving behind a lasting legacy and a charm all his own.

BERRA: It was fun. If I had to do it over again, I'd do it again.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: Yogi Berra leaves behind a plethora of records. He owns more rings than anybody ever. Not just that; he's also going to be remembered for his service. He served in the Navy during World War II, providing air cover for the men and women invading Normandy.

PEREIRA: Boris, he was an original.

SANCHEZ: He certainly was.

CAMEROTA: Yes. And of course, all those sayings...

PEREIRA: I know.

CAMEROTA: ... will live on.

PEREIRA: They'll live on in our lexicon, too.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely.

All right. Dr. Ben Carson coming under fire for his comments about a Muslim political candidate. He's now trying to clarify his previous clarification. Was he misinterpreted? We'll discuss it, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[06:25:01] COLBERT: I also want to apologize to you, because I've said a few things about you over the years that are, you know, in polite company, perhaps are unforgivable.

I hope you'll accept my apology.

TRUMP: Accepted.

COLBERT: And I just want to give you the opportunity. Is there anybody you'd like to apologize to right now yourself?

TRUMP: No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Donald Trump has no apologies on "The Late Show" last night, especially not to President Obama. And Trump refused to answer a question about whether he thinks the president is really American.

Joining us now to discuss this entire appearance is columnist for "The Daily Beast," Patricia Murphy; and political reporter for "The Washington Post," Ed O'Keefe.

Great to have both of you with us today.

Let's play that moment when Stephen Colbert asked Donald Trump if he still believes the president was not born in the United States. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COLBERT: All right. I'm going to throw you up a big fat meatball for you to hit out of park right now. OK?

TRUMP: Good.

COLBERT: This is the last time you ever have to address this question if you hit the ball.

TRUMP: OK.

COLBERT: Big old -- there's like sauce all over my hands, this meatball is so big. OK?

TRUMP: I want to hear this one.

COLBERT: Barack Obama born in the United States? Go.

TRUMP: Let me just...

COLBERT: Was he? It's a meatball.

TRUMP: I know.

COLBERT: It's hanging out there. Right there. Come on.

TRUMP: And do you want to know -- I don't talk about it anymore.

(END VIDEO CLIP) CAMEROTA: Patricia, he says, "I don't talk about it anymore."

What happened to "I'm not going to be politically correct? I'm going to call it like I see it. I'm going to say how I really feel"?

PATRICIA MURPHY, COLUMNIST, "THE DAILY BEAST": Listen, I think this is a pretty smart way for Trump to handle this, because we know that, not only did he used to talk about it, he actually paid his own private investigators to go on the hunt for the president's birth certificate. I mean, he really...

CAMEROTA: So why not own it? Why isn't he owning it now?

MURPHY: Because it sounds crazy, and it is crazy. And I think he's actually trying to broaden his appeal. We've seen him start to tone his message down just a little bit, if only not to get drawn into a lengthy debate about how crazy he used to be. I think this is a really good sign.

And you could hear it from his tone last night: he wants to be president. He thinks he can be president. And I think we're starting to see him back it up a little bit in terms of how outrageous he's willing to be, in order to be taken seriously....

CAMEROTA: OK.

MURPHY: ... not just in the Republican primary but further down the road.

CAMEROTA: Ed, is Trump turning down the crazy?

ED O'KEEFE, POLITICAL REPORTER, "THE WASHINGTON POST": It seems like it. You know, when you spend time with Stephen Colbert and then with Scott Pelley on "60 Minutes," it's certainly a change in strategy. For one thing he's actually showing up in person. He's not phoning it in, literally. And he's sitting for interviews that I think are going to be seen by people who probably aren't his biggest fans and who at least might be able to walk away from watching them, maybe better understanding why is it that this guy is enjoying such broad appeal among Republicans.

CAMEROTA: But Ed, I mean, do you really -- but did that answer satisfy them? The people who are on the fence about Trump, saying -- Trump saying, "I'm not going to talk about my, you know, birther theories anymore," is that satisfying?

O'KEEFE: Probably not. But here he was on a late-night talk show discussing these issues, not necessarily on this one or on a more serious program. And I think it's pretty well-established what we think -- what Donald Trump thinks about the president's lineage.

CAMEROTA: Yes. OK. Let's talk about Ben Carson, because he has spent the past 24 hours trying to clarify when he originally said that Muslim -- no Muslim could ever be president of the United States and that Islam was inconsistent with the Constitution. Here's what he now said yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHUCK TODD, HOST, NBC'S "MEET THE PRESS": So do you believe that Islam is consistent with the Constitution?

CARSON: No, I don't. I do not. I would not advocate that we put a Muslim in charge of this nation. I absolutely would not agree with that.

I said that anybody who embraces our American values, and our Constitution is somebody who is acceptable to me. Of course if they don't, I don't want them to be the president of the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: OK. Patricia, what you heard there were his original comments on "Meet the Press," where he said that Islam was inconsistent, and then what he said yesterday about "That's actually not what I said. I meant that anybody can be president as long as they, you know, vow to support the Constitution."

That's not what he originally said. What do you think of him trying to clean this up now?

MURPHY: It's absolutely not what he said. It's actually the total opposite of what he said before.

But the criticism came not just from the media of Ben Carson. It came from the other candidates [SIC] of Ben Carson. Ted Cruz came out and said, "I think Ben Carson is wrong on this."

Carly Fiorina, "I think Ben Carson is wrong on this."

So there is a play that he can make when the media criticizes him for something he can say. It's "Oh, it's just the PC police." But when you're to the right of Ted Cruz on a question of constitutionalism about whether there's a religious test to be president, I think he knew that he needed to back those comments up very, very quickly.

I do think, though, this also shows his inexperience. This is somebody who is very green in interviews like this. And this is when it starts to really matter, when you really start to put your foot on it; and that's exactly what Ben Carson did.

CAMEROTA: Ed, very quickly, your thoughts?

O'KEEFE: You know who was having problems like this a few months ago? Scott Walker. And look where he is now.

The scrutiny that comes with being a national...