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Pope to Address Joint Session of Congress; Interview with Senator Tim Kaine; Poll: Trump Maintains Lead as Rivals Rise. Aired 8- 8:30a ET

Aired September 24, 2015 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: The pontiff to address a joint meeting of Congress.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some on the right will like what he says. Some of the left will like other things that he says.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm very concerned that a religious leader, the head of a church, is being recognized as the head of state.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And 818 tons of concrete.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're doing our best to ensure certainly the safety of the Pope.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And 37 miles of barriers and fencing.

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If I do something wrong, Alisyn, I have very thick skin. I don't mind being criticized.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He is boycotting FOX News.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think this is divorce. I think it might be a momentary separation.

TRUMP: I am so tired of this political correct crap.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota, and Michaela Pereira.

CUOMO: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and those around the world. This is NEW DAY. Alisyn and Michaela are in New York. We are coming to you live from the U.S. capitol building where big crowds are already gathering awaiting the main event. Pope Francis addressing a joint meeting of Congress in just about 90 minutes. Catholics, non-Catholics, believers, nonbelievers all alike are here to hear the pontiff's words. And if his comments so far about immigrants, climate change, and poverty are any indication, today's speech may make some uneasy. Whether you are a Republican or a Democrat, you could be an awkward spot.

Let's begin our comprehensive coverage with CNN's chief national security correspondent Jim Sciutto who joins me now. You have got the mix of the man, the message, and the moment. Pope Francis couldn't be here at the better time.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Chris, that's right. And we expect this speech to be more of a gentle nudge than a stern scolding, but this is a Pope with a powerful voice and deep conviction. And he's going to be addressing some of the most controversial, divisive issues here, certainly in Washington, but in the country -- immigration, abortion, climate change. And he's going to address them with conviction. Of course a third of the Congress there Catholics, but this speech is meant for all faiths, certainly for both parties and really for all Americans.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: This morning Pope Francis making another historic stop on his whirlwind U.S. tour, this time speaking before Congress on Capitol Hill, a first for any pope.

REP. JOHN BOEHNER, (R) HOUSE SPEAKER: There is one thing we know about this Pope. He's not -- he's not afraid to take on the status quo or not afraid to say what he really thinks.

SCIUTTO: House Speaker John Boehner and the Vice President Joe Biden, two of the most prompt Catholics in Washington, will be seated right behind the Pope, who may touch on divisive political topics such as same-sex marriage, abortion, even the Iran deal. At the White House Wednesday, a preview of sorts as the pontiff tackled immigration.

POPE FRANCIS: As the son of an immigrant family, I'm happy to be a guest in this country, which was largely built by such families.

SCIUTTO: He also spoke out strongly on climate change.

FRANCIS: Climate change is a problem which can no longer be left to our future generations.

(APPLAUSE)

When it comes to the care of our common home, we are living at a critical moment of history.

REV. EDWARD BECK, CNN RELIGION COMMENTATOR: For him, these are issues of the gospel because they affect people, especially the poor. And he sees himself on as a man on the side of the poor.

SCIUTTO: In keeping with his style the Pope has decided to forego a lunch with members of Congress and instead after his address he will go to Catholic charities and will me with some 200 homeless.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: There will be at least one member of Congress who will not be in the chamber for the Pope's speech. That's Representative Paul Gosar. He's a Tea Party Republican, also a Catholic. He said he is boycotting the speech because he says he does not want to be lectured by the Pope on climate change. You know, Chris, this Pope has a very powerful voice. He's very popular. He's is the people's Pope. But even this Pope may not be able to bridge in many of the divides here in Washington.

CUOMO: That's an interesting rationale. The Pope says climate change is real. It is a matter of science. He's a chemist. So if it's real than I default right to my teaching as a Catholic and here is what we have to do for the environment. So it is an interesting mix.

SCIUTTO: Of course, a man of faith who accepts the science. Imagine that. So that's something we know is a very political issue here.

CUOMO: And what will he do with those who do not. What will his tone be? We're about to see. Prominent Catholics from both sides of the aisle are going to be here to greet Pope Francis when he arrives. So what can we expect in this speech? CNN senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny is live on the east front of the capitol awaiting the Pope's arrival. Jeff?

[08:05:00] JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Chris. We are on the east front, so we're on the opposite side of the capitol where all of those thousands of people are gathering. We're on the side of the capital towards the Supreme Court. You can see behind me here, this is the House of Representative chambers. This is where the Pope is going to arrive in a little over an hour's time. He's going to be greeted by Speaker John Boehner, a Republican of Ohio, lifelong Catholic who is the man behind inviting the Pope to deliver this joint meeting of Congress here. He will have a private session with Speaker Boehner and Vice President Joe Biden, of course the first Catholic vice president in this country.

Inside the chamber, though, there are going to be so many representatives and senators who are Catholic, 30 percent of this U.S. Congress is Catholic. And Supreme Court justices as well. Six of the nine Supreme Court justices are Catholic, and four of the justices will be on hand today for this address, including the chief justice John Roberts.

We're also going to have presidential candidates in the room. Of course all five senators who are running for president as well as Dr. Ben Carson. He's the invited guest of Congressman Mark Sanford from South Carolina.

Now, some Republicans are slightly uneasy about this message of climate change as Jim was saying. Some Democrats are slightly uneasy a about the issue of abortion and same-sex marriage. They think they might be lectured to a little bit. But John Boehner had a message to all of them. He said this. He said that "the best thing we can do is listen and open our hearts to his message." So this is not a typical political day where things fall into line on liberals and conservatives. His message, of course, is a bit bigger that be that. We'll hear it in about an hour and 15 minutes or so, actually just about the couple hours time. Chris?

CUOMO: Very exciting. Do you know who doesn't care if they get uneasy? Pope Francis. His signature phrase, "make a raucous." Get involved with things even if controversial. Jeff, thank you very much. We'll check back with you in a little bit.

And boy, has the Pope made an impact already. Thousands gathering outside the capitol building waiting to get just a peek. Remember, as the Pope passes you, you get a blessing. And to 70 million Catholics that would be a dream. CNN's Rosa Flores is out there in the midst of all the excitement. You were by my side yesterday. What is it like out there this morning?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Chris, a mess like the Pope likes to say. Take a look behind me. There is already lots of people here waiting to get a glimpse of the Pope. We were talking about all the pomp and circumstance that's going to happen inside the building, but I'm almost sure that Pope Francis would rather be with the people you see behind me, young and old, babies. I'm looking at the crowd and I see some flags. I see the Mexican flag. I see the flag of the Vatican.

I almost think that he would rather be here talking with these people than actually delivering that much-anticipated speech before Congress. But of course we're expecting him to speak in English. And Chris I've got to tell you, on the papal plane he was asked very casually if he was practicing his English or how good his English was. And he said oh, English is not my forte. But he's doing pretty good, and I'm pretty sure he's be delivering a powerful message.

CUOMO: And he thinks it's very important to speak in English not only because obviously the native tongue here, but also because it will allow the people here to actually see what he emphasizes and why. Rosa, thank you very much. We'll check back with you as well.

We have Democrat Senator Tim Kaine. Kaine is a devout Catholic. He's going to be attending this morning as well. Senator, great to have you here.

SEN. TIM KAINE, (D) VIRGINIA: Thank you.

CUOMO: Let's not avoid the obvious. We always like to say well, I'm religious. That's my business. Not today. You are a Catholic. The Pope is here. The reception has been amazing. You did missionary work with the Jesuits when you were going back. What does this mean to you personally?

KAINE: This is going to be a day I'll remember my whole life. There's not many days where you wake up in the morning and you can say I'll remember this day the rest of my life. Today will be one of those days. I worked with Jesuits in Latin America in Honduras in 1980-81, military dictatorship. The Jesuit were not popular because of their work with the poor. It was very similar to the Argentinean situation.

And get this. I go to a parish in Richmond where the head of our parish council is named Francis Pope. So I'm really connected to this. I have Francis Pope at my church and Pope Francis here, so it's going to be a great day. And my wife is with me and she's every bit as excited as I am.

CUOMO: And the timing. Obviously Catholics believe things happen for a reasons. You've got religious intolerance going on right now as one of the main themes in the GOP political discourse. You have it bleeding over into just the entire election. You have denying of climate change that goes on all the time, the science is doubted. You have Donald Trump dominating the dialogue, using negativity towards others that's lifting him in a big way with American voters. And then you have the Pope coming

KAINE: And can I add a couple?

CUOMO: Please.

KAINE: We've got a migrant crisis worldwide. The book of Exodus is about migrants and wanderers and the Old and New Testaments are filled with injunctions about that. And this is Hispanic heritage month. And the Pope is the first Latin American Pope, and he's coming to us at a real Hispanic moment in the United States with the growing influence of the Latinos in business and politics. You have two Latinos running for president. So all of this is converging. It is not by accident, and that is what makes it so special.

[08:10:16] CUOMO: And, again, it's not a criticism of Donald Trump. The people want him. He is number one in the polls. It is not an accident. It is not a mistake. It's not a glitch. People resonate with what he says. They don't like political correctness. They don't like that people aren't direct. They don't like that they think people avoid these really ugly realities around us. So what do you think the Pope can do in a message that will reach people?

KAINE: The first thing that will reach all of us, or should, is his style of leadership, the humility. I think we live in an age, Chris, where leaders, political leader, certainly business, military, leaders of churches, sometimes the title matters. The salary matters. The perks matter, the distance between ourselves and our flock or our constituents. This guy is turning it all on its head and saying if you want to be first you should be last, if you want to be a leader you need to server. You need to wash the feet of those you lead, using the good Thursday analogy. And that is something we need hear this in Congress.

And the other thing he can do is I think he can set high expectations for us. You know we're in a low expectations game. People hate Congress. And the members bash each other and they often bash the government. What he can say is you are a great nation and you have a unique moment at this moment with so many challenges to really do something powerful. Don't have low expectations of this place. Have high expectations of it. He can tell us that he has high expectations of us. And sometimes you will live up to higher expectations, and that is something that he can uniquely do.

CUOMO: Another interesting statistical coincidence, 83 members of Congress are Catholic. Split evenly. You can't split it in half you have half a person, but very interesting. What does that tell you about the disposition of both parties?

KAINE: This is one thing I love about being Catholic. If you go to mass and look at the bumper sticker, you are going to see bumper stickers of all political persuasions. That is a great thing of our churches. So much of our life now we self-sort into just wanting to be around people who think like us. I like being part of a church that is small "c" catholic, universal, that encompasses a lot of different believes and views. You can go to mass anywhere in the world. You may not know the language but you know what's being done because the order and the mass and the readings are the same anywhere in the world. We are split politically, but that can be a benefit, because we can challenge each other and learn from each other --

CUOMO: And it's how you do it. And I think that is the beauty of what the Pope brings with him today almost assuredly, which is how he stacks it, what he emphasizes. You know it is going to be different than the south lawn, otherwise he wouldn't have had the two appearances. So you know it is going to be different. We'll have to see how. But the tone, yes, our political process is adversarial. That is a good thing. But how are you adversaries. You know, if it is just relentlessly negative and pejorative you wind you have going nowhere. I'm sure his tone will go a long way to appeasing those who even don't agree with what he says.

KAINE: I hope so. And I hope it is like the parable in the New Testament about the seed. Does it fall on good soil, does it fall on thorns, does it fall on rocky ground? I hope today we're good soil and I hope the message falls and we ponder it and reflect upon it.

CUOMO: Are you surprised by how electrifying has the environment been around Francis? I remember growing up as a kid when it was John Paul II and sky-scrappers and we were amazed by him and what he had been doing in Europe. But now I feel like -- I'm an old man now, but I feel like the intensity of the enthusiasm was more than I expected. What's your take?

KAINE: I remember when John Paul II came to celebrate mass on the Boston Common. And the excitement of the Polish Pope at a time when the Solidarity movement was in place and he was facing off against leaders that were against organized religion. That was so powerful, and this has a connection to it. But the fact that this Pope is from America, you know north, south, and central, we're all Americans. We all call ourselves Americans.

CUOMO: You sound like the Pope. That is not something we're used to hearing in this country when he talks about the continent as the whole.

KAINE: This is the month. You know, 450 years ago, the settlement by the Spanish of St. Augustine, Florida. We were a Hispanic nation before we were an English nation.

CUOMO: Spanish was the first nonindigenous language spoken in this country. Senator. KAINE: Thanks. It's going to be a wonderful day.

CUOMO: It is. Enjoy it.

All right, so, Alisyn, back to you.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: OK, Chris, it will be fascinating to watch all of your coverage down there as it has been. So we will stay tuned and get back to you shortly. But we do have some breaking news to tell you about. This is out of Saudi Arabia, because more than 450 people are dead and 700 hurt during the Haj pilgrimage near the holy city of Mecca. Officials say a stampede broke out during ritual known as stoning the devil. That's where crowds of pilgrims throw stones at pillars meant to symbolize rejection of evil. This one, it is not clear what sparked the stampede.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Back here at home in America, charges have been filed against a man accused of four shootings along Interstate 10 in Arizona.

[08:15:02] Leslie Allen Merritt Jr. has been charged with 16 felony counts. Authorities say the 21-year-old's gun, which was pawned, matched bullet fragments in four of the shootings. Merritt insists they've got the wrong guy. However, police say the gun was not pawned at the time of those incidents.

CAMEROTA: Three Chicago area schools remain closed because of the threat of the Legionnaires disease. The schools were shuttered Wednesday after tests showed abnormally high levels of the Legionella bacteria in cooling towers of each of the three sites. School district officials say there is no indication anyone in the affected buildings has contracted Legionnaires disease.

PEREIRA: Alisyn talking to Donald Trump earlier this morning on NEW DAY. So, we're going to take a look at the polls. He may still be leading his Republican rivals, but these new polling results show his lead appears to be softening somewhat. Alisyn asked him about that right here on NEW DAY. We'll talk about it with our political experts, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: When was America great?

TRUMP (via telephone): It was before the president.

[08:20:00] Going into Iraq was tremendous upset for our country. It destabilized the Middle East. And that was Bush's fault.

I would say that Reagan, Clinton, we didn't -- the country wasn't decimated like it is now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Well, that was Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump. He's still topping rivals in the poll. According to a new poll from Quinnipiac University this morning, the front runner's lead is shrinking slightly while outsiders and opponents are closing in.

Let's discuss everything that he says with our CNN political commentator S.E. Cupp, and CNN political commentator and Democratic strategist Maria Cardona.

So, great to see you ladies.

MARIA CARDONA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Good morning.

CAMEROTA: S.E., I'll start with you because I did want to ask Trump about when was America's heyday. And you heard, he thought it was during the Reagan, that is predictable, and Clinton era. What did you think about some of the things he said?

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Oh boy. Well, kudos to you for trying to get somewhere with Trump. I think I would have hung up the phone had he told me that he has foreign policy ideas but they are a secret. Yes. Bravo to you.

Look, America was having a tough time in the '80s. It had a tough time in the '90s. Again Trump -- I don't know what Trump's sort of view of history is. He doesn't like to get too specific.

But I think the polls are an indication that people are getting a little tired of the Trump show. It was certainly entertaining in the beginning. But I think people now want some substantive answers on how he would solve some pretty significant problems in this country.

And what's really weird and frustrating is, you know, Trump just put out a policy paper on guns on the Second Amendment. And he had some help with that I know. But it was very, very good.

And instead of going out on the stump and talking about that or sitting down with you and saying, you know what, Alisyn, here is what I want to talk about. I have the policy paper on guns and it is really important, he's talking about Marco Rubio's hair and Chris Christie's weight and Hillary Clinton's voice. It's just -- it's a farce at this point.

CAMEROTA: Maria, he didn't exactly say that his foreign policy strategy is a secret.

(LAUGHTER)

CAMEROTA: But he wouldn't reveal -- I mean, S.E. is right, he wouldn't reveal any specifics. But he says this is all part of his strategy. Listen to this moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: You got to be cool and you got to be unpredictable. And you just -- you just can't go in and say exactly here is my plan. And I do have plans. And by the way, plans are always subject to massive change. And they change.

You got to win. And I know how to win. These guys don't know how to win.

Marco Rubio, he's like a kid. He shouldn't even be running in this race as far as I'm concerned. He's a kid.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Maria, what he's saying there is you don't want to tip your hand to your enemies about your military plan. Doesn't he have a point?

CARDONA: Well, no, because there is a big difference between not wanting to tip your hand to your enemies and actually laying out a sensible framework in terms of a strategy of how you would approach something. But this is clearly something that Donald Trump either doesn't understand, or he does understand it but has absolutely no clue on how to do that in a campaign where -- and you saw this in this debate -- issues are going to start to become more important.

What happened at the debate is that he went completely silent. I think it was like 37 minutes where he didn't speak. And we know that in itself was a first. But he wasn't speaking for a reason and the reason was he had nothing to contribute to the debate which was actually quite robust that was going on on the stage between all the other candidates on foreign policy.

And voters are starting to see the chink in that armor. They are starting to see that perhaps the emperor has no clothes.

CAMEROTA: OK, both of you say the voters are starting to see that. But let's look at the latest Quinnipiac poll that was out at 6:00 a.m. this morning. So, let's pull that up, because I'm not sure it reveals what you are saying. Yes, he's down three points. It's within the margin of error from August, from 28 percent to 25.

And yes, his rivals are creeping up. Ben Carson up to 17 percent, Fiorina up from 5 percent to 12 percent. Even Jeb Bush up from 7 percent to 10 percent. Rubio up 7 to 9.

But, S.E., he's still the far and away leader here. It is not that voters are rejecting him.

CUPP: Well, no -- well, actually you could say 75 percent of conservative voters are rejecting him. And he has high unfavorables and he's still guy most conservatives and in particular, most women say they would never vote for. So, there is still a bit of a rejection even if he is the front runner for 25 percent of the party.

But Trump has not gone down in the polls since he entered the race until now. So, whether you think that is because of the bad debate performance or because of the incident, you know, with the -- the Muslim question that we got at that rally.

(CROSSTALK)

[08:25:00] CUPP: Yes. You know, or some of his comments he's made about the other candidates recently, and now his new feud with FOX News. I mean, something has to have, sort of, changed against Trump. And maybe it's more of a recognition that someone like Carly Fiorina is coming up and is a more believable, more credible outsider. But I think something is going on here.

CAMEROTA: Maria, speaking of FOX News, there is a new FOX News poll out also which shows Trump actually ticking up a point from 25 percent to 26 percent. But I did ask him about his feud with FOX News. And I said, don't you need FOX News and FOX News viewers in order to win the primary? And he said, I don't know. I just don't know about that.

(LAUGHTER)

CAMEROTA: I mean, that's a rare admission.

CARDONA: It is.

CAMEROTA: But isn't it un-strategic of him to pick a battle with FOX News?

CARDONA: Of course, it is. But if I think if there is anything we've learned about Trump in this campaign season is that he's been completely un-strategic up to this point. But it has worked for him up to this point.

I think one of the things that was very telling in that Quinnipiac poll that you mentioned, Alisyn, is that overall less than 4 in 10 of the voters believe that the front runners, Trump, Carson and Fiorina, have what it takes to become president.

I think that is completely telling in terms of where we are with this race, which is that the voters aren't perhaps just kicking the tires of these candidates. They are getting into the cars because they think they are pretty. They think they sound good. They think they make them look good perhaps or make them feel good.

But perhaps at the end of the day, they are going to feel that these cars are lemons and are not going to be able to take them down the path that it takes to get to the White House.

CAMEROTA: I like the analogy, Maria. That's --

CARDONA: A long road.

CAMEROTA: A long road. There you go. To just finish it off.

S.E., Maria, thanks so much. Great to talk to you, ladies.

CUPP: Thanks.

CARDONA: Thank you, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: All right. Let's get back to Washington, D.C., and Chris Cuomo, who's, of course, watching all things papal.

Hi, Chris.

CUOMO: And as we are steeped in this quagmire of political negativity, here comes the pope. Pope Francis will be the first pontiff ever to address the U.S. Congress. What he's going to say? It's the big test for Pope Francis and our lawmakers. We'll discuss, coming up.

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