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Pope Speaks Out on Sex Abuse Scandal; Obama, Putin to Meet for First Time in 2 Years; Trump to Unveil Detailed Tax Plan; Iraq to Share ISIS Intel with Iran, Syria, Russia. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired September 28, 2015 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pope Francis now back in Rome.

[05:5845] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The longest trip that Pope Francis has taken since he's been pope.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pope Francis told survivors of clerical sex abuse that he was profoundly sorry.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Donald Trump and Ben Carson neck and neck.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Neither party likes you very much. How are you going to get...

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I would say that's true. Yes.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: You don't think that, in any way, you said anything that could have been said more clearly about Muslims?

DR. BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I made it very clear.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: President Obama and Putin meeting face-to- face for the first time in two years.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Those countries that can must do more to accommodate refugees.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Rouhani talked about possibly releasing an American journalist.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm for anything that's going to get my brother out.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota and Michaela Pereira.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY. it is Monday, September 28, 6 a.m. in the east, and we have a busy, busy morning ahead of us. We have a lot going on in the world. Pope Francis is back at the Vatican this morning after a six-day

trip to the United States that captivated the collective in a way we rarely see. And guess what? He saved his best for last in his speech in Philadelphia. We're going to show it to you.

And in just hours, President Obama will address world leaders at the United Nations General Assembly, and he's going to sit down with Russia's president, Vladimir Putin. What will happen?

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: All right. So we will talk about all of this global news with lots of big-brained people who will be in our studio. We have former secretary of state, Madeleine Albright. We have Deputy Secretary of State Tony Blinken; White House press secretary Josh Earnest; GOP presidential candidate, Senator Rand Paul; and former House majority leader, Eric Cantor.

We begin with that breaking news. On Pope Francis's return flight to Rome, he revealed some things to reporters. He gave his impressions of America and his thoughts on the church sex abuse scandal.

CNN's Rosa Flores was on that flight to Rome. What did he say, Rosa?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Alisyn, good morning.

Three main headlines that we're talking about here. First of all, when it comes to the sex abuse scandal, we heard him say that he vowed to hold those who abuse children responsible. On the plane, we learned he's expanding that number to include bishops, to include anyone who knew that these abuses were happening, as well. That is new.

Now, remember this quote, because we know that Pope Francis is highly quoted. The new one we heard on the plane, "I don't judge someone who can't forgive." Now, there he was talking about sex abuse families, victims, families and those victims who can't find it in their hearts to forgive their abusers. He said, "I understand where they come from." He said, again, quote, "I don't judge someone who can't forgive, in that particular case."

And then finally, conscientious objection, a human right. Now I've got to give you the background there. The question was about government officials who don't abide certain laws, like issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples and who cite religious liberty.

Now, here is what he said, quote, "It is a human right, and if a government official is a human person, he has that right. It is a human right."

Now, of course, Chris, everyone probably thinking about Kim Davis out of Kentucky. Now, he said, of course, that he can't think of every single case in his head of conscientious objection, but of course, everybody in the United States probably thinking about that.

And I have to leave you with this tweet, because Pope Francis, of course, tweeting as soon as he gets to Rome, this tweet saying, "With my heartfelt thanks, may the love of Christ always guide the American people, #GodBlessAmerica" -- Chris.

CUOMO: Very nice. Rosa, thank you so much. You've been great throughout the whole trip. Thank you for helping us understand each step of the way.

Let's turn to our panel. Father Timothy Kesicki. He is the president of the Jesuit Conference of the United States and Canada. And Delia Gallagher, CNN Vatican correspondent. And we also have some big questions here.

Delia, let's start with this. Won't matter most to the pope, but it matters a lot here. The reaction to the reaction. Is the Vatican surprised, Delia, as to the exuberance, the big crowds, the faithful and the non-faithful that the message of Francis brought in?

DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: I don't know if they're surprised, Chris. I think -- I think the Vatican knows that the American people are an exuberant people, are people with a big welcome. I think that was kind of encapsulated in that big hug. Remember the big hug from Cardinal Dolan in New York. I mean, normally you don't hug a pope. You shake his hand or you kiss his ring. But you don't give him a big bear hug. And I think that was kind of symbolic of the hug of -- the Americans were giving to the pope at that time.

I don't think it's a surprise to the Vatican. The Vatican is well aware of how Americans are. It was probably good for the pope to actually be here and feel it, because of course, it's one thing to kind of know it intellectually. It's another thing to be here in the crowd. And I think he made reference to that on the plane when he was talking about the warmth of the American people and the exuberance -- Chris.

CUOMO: Kesicki, Father Kesicki, the Vatican's wrong. It was huge. It was a huge surprise. Nobody expected the crowds would be like this. Nobody expected the media resonance on the way that the message was received here. It's certainly even different, fundamentally, from when John Paul II was here in the '70s.

So the question is how long will it last? What will the legacy of the visit be? And to that we mean we get to the specifics.

On the scandal, the idea of him extending the reach of accountability, the criticism is he could have done that already. The criticism is when he talked to the bishops, he said, "I want to reward your courage." Many see them as the opposite of courageous. How do you understand these points?

FATHER TIMOTHY KESICKI, PRESIDENT, JESUIT CONFERENCE OF THE UNITED STATES AND CANADA: I think the key thing to look at with Pope Francis is that he's addressing structures which will respond to the problem.

Pope Francis could have gone around the world, in a sense, placing Band-Aids on the problem, patching cracks, showing everyone that it's his primary issue. And then when he died, the cause would die with him. By creating a Vatican commission to oversee sexual abuse, by creating a tribunal that hold bishops to accountability, he's putting the structures in place that make sure that there really is equal treatment and equal protection of minors and equal accountability for all bishops.

[06:05:11] CUOMO: Right. The only thing that will really smack of that, at least with the American media and audience, will be that the church comes out first and holds people accountable and delivers them over to the authorities when there is a notice of abuse, as opposed to afterward.

John Allen, I haven't had a chance to talk to you about it yet. Were you as blown away by the extemporaneous comments that the pope made in Philadelphia as I was?

JOHN ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Chris, you're talking about the extemp comments at the vigil prior to the final mass?

CUOMO: Yes, I'm talking about when he was at the concert, he kind of took his speech and tossed it to the side...

ALLEN: Yes.

CUOMO: ... and started talking about the family as the formative structure, not the church. The difficulties of family, the need to fight through; you know, messages that probably resonate more with the American audience than anything else he said.

ALLEN: Yes. Short answer to your question, was I surprised? Absolutely not.

Listen, Pope -- I followed all -- Pope Francis in all ten of his foreign trips. I have become accustomed to this kind of evening at the improv feel with Pope Francis, particularly in settings like that. That's the kind of place he always sort of goes off the cuff.

Now I have to say, a couple of the lines you heard from him that night were part of his standard stump rhetoric. I mean, you'll remember, he sort of brought the house down by making a joke about the mother-in-law and how couples let the plates fly. You know, these are the kinds of things he always says.

But listen, Chris. The family is enormously important to this pope. He has called this extraordinary, unprecedented, really, process of two synods. Those are summits of Catholic bishops from all over the world to really sink their teeth into issues that relate to families in the early 21st Century. One last October, and one coming up in just a few days, beginning on October 4.

Of course, he went to Philadelphia, Chris, primarily to celebrate the World Meeting of Families. So it's not like this pope needs a text in front of him to open up his heart and mind about the challenges he feels the family faces and the richness that he believes the family represents. CUOMO: John Allen, Delia Gallagher, I've decided that you two

are basically in the business of taking everything I find to be somehow extraordinary and say, "No, it's completely ordinary." So I thank you for that.

Father Kesicki, let me ask you something. The latest...

ALLEN: No, no, Chris. This is a case in which the ordinary...

CUOMO: Yes.

ALLEN: Chris, this is a case in which the ordinary is extraordinary. Francis is an extraordinary man. It's just we've gotten used to seeing him do his thing.

CUOMO: Yes. My point stands. Which I say that it was amazing. I think it was the best moment. And you're like, nah. But you know, I should be used to it. You did that for me about 15 hours straight over this trip and what we did at the conclave. You'd think I'd be used to it.

Father Kesicki, let me ask you this. The big point of concern here is going to be, so now what? You know, everybody are imbued with the glow, and what happens, you know, when the man leaves and time passes? Things go back to the same. Change is hard. That's why it happens so infrequently.

But one place that it should happen more is going to be within the church structure itself. As John Allen has pointed out, these synods that are coming up are a big deal.

Do you believe that there will be something imparted from the top, from the Vatican, from Francis, to the bishops to motivate more of this inclusiveness and withdrawal from stricture of the negativity of the rules that we heard in the message to the actual experience of the Catholics in America?

KESICKI: Well, we know that Pope Francis is a great pastor but he has great political sensibilities. And everything that he said in the United States was for the people of the United States, but it was also for the global communion of 1.1 million Catholics and those who will be attending the synod.

His whole approach to the synod has been, "I want open- conversation dialogue. Nothing is off the table."

And so I sincerely believe that every message he delivered in the U.S., in Cuba, everything that has preceded this synod will affect those who attend the synod. And I believe he believes in the Holy Spirit and that the spirit of God and his leadership will help bring about a synod that responds to the pastoral needs of our time.

CUOMO: It will be interesting if, on one level, Delia, you know, in the American politics within the church, it had been agreed that bishops would stay out of politics. And that is a rule that has been flagrantly ignored by bishops all across the country. It will be interesting to see if there's an adjustment on that.

Last moment. Delia, him embracing the inmates, yes, I know that he does that. Yes, I know it is important. But there seemed to be something about it that was uniquely authentic that really set people back on their heels. What do you think that was?

GALLAGHER: Well, I think it's the fact that Francis makes people feel like they are OK. You know? The way they are. Whatever they have done in the past. And that's what he said to the inmates. And that's what he said to everybody at every step of the way. Whatever you've done in the past, God loves you. You are forgiven.

[06:10:10] And I think that has touched the heart of every person, because every person has inside of them something that perhaps they are ashamed of or they don't feel worthy about. And he says, you're OK just the way you are.

CUOMO: Delia, John, thank you so much for holding up the coverage through these days and big events and helping those of us who aren't as read in it (ph) as you are. I appreciate it personally.

Father Kesicki, we will follow up with after the synod to see what the practical impact is of what we heard from Pope Francis on what the bishops in the United States do. Thank you, sir.

KESICKI: Of course.

CUOMO: Over to you, Mick.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Well, Chris, Pope Francis may have left New York, but it's still busy here. World leaders are gathering in New York City today for the United Nations General Assembly. President Obama will speak this morning on the session's opening day, as will Russia's president, Vladimir Putin, who has not attended the U.N. meeting in a decade.

Perhaps the most highly anticipated moment, President Obama and Putin will have a sit-down meeting for the first time in two years.

CNN's Michelle Kosinski is live at the U.N. Good to have you in New York with us -- Michelle.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Michaela.

Right, President Obama is going to be all about diplomacy today, urging nations to keep on trying to find a solution in Syria and to fight ISIS, even though parts of his plan haven't exactly been going all that well lately.

However, possibly stealing all the oxygen out of the room will be none other than Russian President Vladimir Putin. He's expected to deliver this kind of dueling speech, possibly urging countries to back Syrian President Bashar al-Assad in fighting ISIS. The White House thinks that he has that completely backwards.

But as you said, for the first time in about two years, these leaders are going to have a real sit-down today. And in the past few days we've heard the White House call Putin desperate to talk to President Obama. Even make fun of his tough-guy stance and even posture when speaking to other world leaders.

For his part, though, Putin didn't have anything negative to say about President Obama on "60 Minutes" last night. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLIE ROSE, "60 MINUTES": What do you think of President Obama? What's your evaluation of him?

VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): I don't think I'm entitled to give any views regarding the president. That's up to the American people.

ROSE: Do you think his activities in foreign affairs reflect a weakness?

PUTIN (through translator): I don't think so at all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOSINSKI: And the White House says the president is going to be direct in confronting the issues of Syria and Ukraine with President Putin. Behind the scenes, you know, how is this going to go? The White House stance there is kind of they're not super optimistic, but let's see what happens.

Back to you guys.

CAMEROTA: I think we're all waiting to see what happens there today. Michelle, thanks so much.

Meanwhile, Donald Trump expected to unveil his detailed tax plan this morning. This as a new national poll shows Trump and rival Ben Carson now neck and neck.

CNN's political reporter, Sara Murray, joins us live with the very latest. I know you've been pouring over it, Sara. What's in it?

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, good morning, Alisyn.

So "The Wall Street Journal" got an early look at Donald Trump's tax plan. And it does a lot of what he teased and said it would do. It does sort of cut the tax rate on families, as well as for corporations.

Now what he does is he essentially creates four new tax rates. And for individuals who are learning less than 25,000, or couples who are earning less than 50,000, they will pay no taxes.

Now one thing we do have to remember is a number of households already pay no taxes, about 43 percent as of 2013. So we'll have to see how widely this would expand that. As for the top individual tax rate, that comes down to 25

percent. As of right now, it's 39.6 percent. This is definitely something that will help middle-class families, but it's also the kind of thing that will help you if you are one of the one percent, if you are at the top of the income range and you're paying that nearly 40 percent tax rate. That's going to be a big tax break for you, as well.

Now, the Trump campaign has said they want this to be a revenue neutral proposal, and eventually, they want it to reduce the deficit. One of the ways they're going to do that, they're going to do a one- time 10 percent tax on corporate profits. They're hoping that will inspire companies to move any money that's overseas back here in the U.S. And that will help generate a little revenue.

Now as you said, all of this happens, Donald Trump's new substantive approach as Ben Carson is gaining on him in the polls. Let's take a look at the new "Wall Street Journal"/NBC News poll.

You can see there it has Donald Trump still ahead of the pack with 21 percent, but Ben Carson's right there behind him at 20 percent. And you see there other rivals are gaining: Marco Rubio, Carly Fiorina, now at 11 percent. If you look at Fiorina's rise, she came from dash marks in July, now at 11 percent now.

Meanwhile, take a look there at Jeb Bush. He's at 7 percent in this September poll. Look at how his numbers just crumbled there from June, when he was at 22 percent.

CUOMO: All right, Sara, thank you very much.

We're going to talk about these new plans with team Trump. They're here on the show this morning.

And Sara also mentioned -- excuse me -- Carly Fiorina. She's got a new foe in the campaign trail. The stage. Watch this.

[06:15:06] The stage curtain comes crashing down during her speech. She's fine. Everybody was fine. In fact, Carly Fiorina kept talking after that. This is what happened at the Republican -- happened in Texas as the candidate was speaking to a group of female entrepreneurs.

Again, everybody is OK. But what a hell of a thing to happen. Fiorina thanked the women on stage with her for helping shield her head from the falling curtain rod.

PEREIRA: My goodness.

CUOMO: They absolutely did.

CAMEROTA: Her hair was not even messed up.

CUOMO: That's because she had the arms over her. Francis effect, immediately people ran to her aid. Love it. PEREIRA: All right. Some more news for you here. House Speaker

John Boehner taking a parting shot on some of his Republican colleagues. Appearing on CBS's "Face the Nation," Boehner blasted conservative groups and lawmakers, accusing them of misleading voters. Making their constituents believe that they can accomplish things that they know are never going to happen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: The Bible says beware of false prophets. There are people out there, you know, spreading noise about how much can get done. I mean, this whole idea that we were going to shut down the government to get rid of Obamacare in 2013, this plan never had a chance.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: When asked if he was referring to Senator Ted Cruz, Boehner was coy, indicated he was referring to several people.

CAMEROTA: All right, everyone. Turn your attention to the screen, because there was a unique sight in the sky seen around the world. Check out this time-lapsed video. This is from Gilbert, Arizona. This is of the super blood moon.

PEREIRA: So great.

CAMEROTA: The result of a rare combination of a lunar eclipse with the closest full moon of the year. This celestial event will not happen again until 2033.

PEREIRA: I've got it marked down on my calendar.

CAMEROTA: Please, and remind me, if you will.

Meanwhile, NASA saying it has a big announcement later today about Mars. Some say this may have to do with the discovery of flowing water on the red planet's surface.

PEREIRA: You know what that means, a correspondent will go.

CUOMO: That's right. Pack my Tang.

I read something that said that the blood moon is this new parlance that's completely meaningless. That this always happens. It's the same cycle. There is no bloodness to the moon.

CAMEROTA: Well, first of all, I love the poetry of it. It sounds so dramatic and vampirey.

PEREIRA: I know. I'm so glad we got to see it.

CAMEROTA: It hasn't happened in 30 years or 25 years or something like that.

CUOMO: Vampirey. PEREIRA: Thanks for showing it to us.

CUOMO: Especially around Halloween coming.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

CUOMO: All right. So big political news, big showdown; has to be. Can't undersell it. Obama and Putin meeting face to face later today. What's going to be on the agenda? What's going to be the vibe? What's going to be the tone? We'll get diplomatic perspective from former secretary of state and U.N. ambassador, Madeleine Albright.

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[06:21:59] CAMEROTA: Big news today. Because in just a few hours, President Obama and Russian President Vladimir Putin are set to meet to discuss ISIS, as well as Syria, Iraq, everything. The meeting comes amid a surprise announcement that Russia will now share intelligence with Syria, Iraq and Iran concerning ISIS, the terror group.

So let's bring in Madeleine Albright. She's, of course, former secretary of state and U.S. ambassador to the U.N. She is now the chair of the National Democratic Institute and the Albright- Stonebridge Group.

Great to have you in studio with us.

MADELEINE ALBRIGHT, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: Terrific to be here. Thanks.

CAMEROTA: So what are we to make of the news this morning that the Iraqi military is now going to share intelligence on ISIS with Russia, with Syria and with Iran?

ALBRIGHT: Well, it's a part of the peculiar story here in terms of trying to figure out who is on whose side. I do think what is of concern is that the support for Assad and the Syrian government while, in fact, Putin, as I just read, is now saying that our helping the rebels is illegal. So there are kind of a variety of strange threads in this story.

CUOMO: So just to understand it, this should be good news, right? You want Iraqis to get help on the intelligence side and every side in fighting ISIS, but Russia sharing intel, which means there will be an exchange, is a troubling thing because of their support for Assad and what's going on with the Syria-motivated government right now.

ALBRIGHT: Right. I mean, there are a lot of various parts to this, in trying to figure out where this is going. It would be very good to stop the killing in Syria and what is happening to the people there generally, and ISIS is very dangerous. And I think it is good to get cooperation to deal with ISIS. Frankly, the problem really does become one of what are the

priorities? I do think that getting rid of ISIS is a priority. And then there is the question of do we support Assad, and what does that really mean? And that's the difficulty of diplomacy in the kind of situation that we're in.

CAMEROTA: So many different shifting alliances and shifting sands, particularly when it comes to ISIS.

Vladimir Putin was on "60 Minutes" last night. I don't know if you if you saw it, but there were moments where he was almost charming. I mean, he was laughing; he was smiling. It was a different image than we certainly have of Vladimir Putin. But he did maintain his position that he must strengthen Assad in order to fight ISIS. That's the difference than what -- how we in the U.S. see it.

ALBRIGHT: Right. I mean, he does believe that. And what they're trying to do, I think, is the Russians have been interested in having more and more influence in the Middle East. That was something that the Soviet Union did. I think that they do see it as part of their backyard, which somehow seems to keep growing.

But I really do think they believe that. And Putin can be charming. I know when I spent time with him when we were in office, he can be nice. But he also, I think, we have to remember what his overall goals are. Which is in fact to restore Russia to a much larger position internationally.

CUOMO: Witness Crimea. Witness what's going on in the eastern part of Ukraine right now as we speak. There's active fighting over there that, you know, has kind of made its way out of the media cycle.

[06:25:06] So President Obama meets with Vladimir Putin. There is a political optic at play here, among the U.S. media, certainly, that Obama is weak in the face of Putin, that Putin doesn't respect him. Do you believe that that is true, and do you believe that this is a time to reset tone?

ALBRIGHT: I do not believe that's true. I think that Putin tries to say things in order to kind of dislocate people's thinking. President Obama is strong, and he knows what he wants.

And I think that there is a decision that has been made that it is useful to deal with the Russians in order to fight ISIS. There's no question.

But I do think that we have to separate how the Russians have dealt with Crimea from what we believe we can cooperate on in Syria. That is what is difficult about this.

But as I understand it, President Obama is going to be very clear about Ukraine and that that is something that we care about deeply, that what the Russians did there was illegal.

CUOMO: Are doing. ALBRIGHT: And are doing, keep doing. President Poroshenko was

yesterday at the Clinton Global Initiative. And he's very clear about the need for help.

CAMEROTA: It will be so interesting to see what happens if they really do have a substantive talk about it today.

But let's talk about the migrant crisis in Europe. The U.S. -- Secretary Kerry announced that the U.S. in 2017 will take in 100,000 refugees. Is the U.S. doing enough today?

ALBRIGHT: Well, I think that we need to do more. And it is a crisis that, obviously, has affected the Middle East and Europe; and I do think that the United States can and should do more.

CAMEROTA: Why aren't we doing more?

ALBRIGHT: Well, because I think that we are doing so many other things. We have, in fact, contributed a great deal to helping people in the refugee camps in Syria and a number of places in the neighbors and really are doing everything that we can. I think that we need to adjust ourselves to seeing that this is a crisis that also affects us and not just kind of looking at what the Europeans are or aren't doing.

CUOMO: How much of it is a function of vowing to the political tone in the country right now with respect to immigrants? It's an ugly narrative. Do you think that slowed the administration from jumping into the fray with the migrants overseas?

ALBRIGHT: Well, I think there is kind of a sense of who are we and what is our job?

I see this from a very personal point of view. And I'm an migrant. I came to this country as a refugee with my family. Not a terribly sad, you know, difficult story about barbed wire or anything. And I'm such a grateful American.

And I was so fascinated by the way that Pope Francis talked about us as an immigrant nation. And I think that is our value system. And we shouldn't be distracted by the fear factor or seeing that foreigners are people that bring crime. I don't believe that. I think it's a mistake to really make that such a point for the American people.

CAMEROTA: Madam Secretary, great to have you in studio with us. We always love when you come in. Thank you so much.

ALBRIGHT: I love being in. Thank you so much.

CAMEROTA: Thanks so much for talking with us.

Let's get over to Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right. Thanks so much. Dr. Ben Carson, nearly even with Donald Trump in the latest

polling. Does he still have a Muslim problem? Carson was on here at CNN. He tried to clarify previous statements in an interview with Jake Tapper. Didn't end well. We're going to show you what happened.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)