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New Day

Carson: "Not Hyperbole" To Use Nazi Comparisons; New Reports Find Tamir Rice Shooting "Reasonable"; Giants Grab Last-Second Win Over 49ers, 30-27. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired October 12, 2015 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Hillary Clinton enjoying big leads in two critical states on the eve of the first Democratic debate. A new CNN/ORC poll gives her a 16-point cushion over Bernie Sanders in Nevada. That lead widens to 22 points without Joe Biden running.

Meanwhile, in South Carolina, Clinton leads Biden by 25 points. Sanders trails by 31 points. Without Biden, Clinton's margin over Sanders is 50 points. The debate airs tomorrow night, 8:30 Eastern right here on CNN.

Some other news, NATO officials are investigating a helicopter crash in Afghanistan. It killed five coalition members and injured five others. The chopper crashed Sunday while landing at a base in Kabul in a non-hostile incident.

The victims were part of NATO's resolute support mission, training Afghan Security Forces. Two of those killed were members of the Royal Air Force.

The U.S. military officer in charge of last month's hearing for Bowe Bergdahl has recommended he not spend time in jail. His legal teams say Bergdahl might be referred to a special lower level court- martial where he would receive neither jail time nor punitive discharge.

Bergdahl as you recall vanished in Afghanistan in June 2009 after deserting his unit. He was captured by the Taliban and held captive for five years.

Imagine this, having unlimited vacation days at work. It's going to soon be the real deal for folks at LinkedIn. Under their new discretionary time-off policy, employees work out with their managers to hammer out their days off. They're also given 17 paid holidays. Don't worry.

As part of the tech company's growing movement to place more focus on results, not hours worked. That goes into effect next month. Can you imagine the chaos at CNN if we had to negotiate this?

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Let's see how it goes at LinkedIn first.

PEREIRA: We'll use them as our test case. CAMEROTA: All right, Michaela, see you in a second because first we want to talk about this new CBS national poll. It shows Donald Trump and Ben Carson running away from the pack. But it's not all good news for Ben Carson.

He did spend the weekend defending his controversial comments about the holocaust, gun violence and Muslims. So let's talk about it all with Armstrong Williams. He is Ben Carson's business manager and close friend. Armstrong, great to see you on NEW DAY.

ARMSTRONG WILLIAMS, BEN CARSON'S BUSINESS MANAGER: Good morning, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, let's talk about what Ben Carson once again talked about yesterday on "Face the Nation." He was, again, trying to explain his position that the holocaust would not have happened had Jews had guns. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's not hyperbole at all, whether it's on our door step or whether it's 50 years away, it's still a concern. It's something we must guard against. That's one of the real purposes of having a constitution.

I think the founders were really quite insightful into looking at possibilities and understanding what has happened in other places and trying to put together something that would prevent that from happening here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Armstrong, does Dr. Carson have any sense of how hurtful this is to American Jews, who may have lost grandparents or great grandparents in the holocaust?

ARMSTRONG WILLIAMS, BEN CARSON'S BUSINESS MANAGER: Hurtful is not the word, Alisyn. Dr. Carson who spent part of last December in Israel, has been a champion of his Jewish brothers and sisters throughout the world, not at all.

Dr. Carson is making a point, which I think most Americans clearly understand. All he's saying is that if the Jews of Nazi Germany were not disarmed by tyrannical government headed by Adolf Hitler over the years, maybe they could have sustained the sort of resistance that would have minimized the damage that had been done.

He's not saying that the holocaust would not have happened and that many of his Jewish brothers and sisters would not have died.

CAMEROTA: Isn't he saying that if they had been armed that they could have staved off the holocaust.

WILLIAMS: Let me raise this with you, Alisyn and the rest of the media that can't seem to get over this. What would have happened had the British disarmed us during the American Revolution? Do you think America would be in the same place it is today if they were successful in doing so.

All he is talking about is the fact that when you're armed you have a better chance of fighting against a tyrannical government, dictators and people who see you as less than (inaudible). That's all he is saying.

CAMEROTA: Let me read for you what the anti-defamation league obviously strong supporters of the Jewish issues.

[07:35:09] Let me read for you what they're saying this historical second guessing is deeply offensive to Jews, holocaust survivors and those who valiantly fought against Hitler.

"It is mind bending to suggest that personal firearms in the hands of a small number of German Jews could have stopped the totalitarian onslaught of Nazi Germany." This is the anti-defamation league. They're saying that they're offended.

WILLIAMS: You know, that's the beauty of freedom of speech. They have a right to their position. They are just clearly not understanding what Dr. Carson is saying and Dr. Carson would never intent to be offensive.

That's why if you started that CBS poll as you talked about as you were introducing the segment, they talked about they felt Dr. Carson was caring. He was very trustworthy. Anybody who's gotten to know Dr. Carson knows that he is just not an offensive human being. That's not who he is.

CAMEROTA: But at this point he has offended some American Muslims by suggesting that he could not support a Muslim president. He has offended at least one victim of the Oregon massacre, who said that he does not -- he felt hurt by what Dr. Carson said about how had he been in that room, he would have rushed the gunman even though one person in the room did rush the gunman and ended up being shot seven times.

He's now offended some American Jews and the Anti-Defamation League. Is it possible that Dr. Carson, while meaning well, is missing some sort of sensitivity chip?

WILLIAMS: You know, Alisyn, I appreciate your continuing to drill down on these points, you know, that's the price of leadership. Sometimes you say things that you really believe. You say because Dr. Carson is a trained surgeon, he's trained to react.

That's why he was able to save so many lives and prevent injuries over so many decades. He reacts. He's the kind of guy that would have jumped in the middle of it and not stood around and wait for the gunman to shoot him.

He knows that no one would react the same or know how they will react until this situation is unfolding. While you continue to believe that is offensive to the government, obviously people are sensitive in those type situations.

We firmly believe that most Americans understand that if Alisyn and many others were in a place and a gunman was firing, there are a few people that would jump in the line of fire to save your life. That's simply the way we are as human beings. Some people would sacrifice everything for the love and future of this nation.

CAMEROTA: He has talked about it when there was a holdup at Popeye's fastfood restaurant, and that he sort of redirected the gunman and said I believe it's the guy behind the counter that you want.

I want to say that "The Daily Beast" called Dr. Carson's biographer and said that story never came up during the research into his past as well as the Baltimore Police Department have said they have in record of that incident. Does he stand by the facts as he has laid them out?

WILLIAMS: You know, Alisyn, it is true that "The Daily Beast" did speak with Greg Lewis, who was Dr. Carson's biographer on three different books and Greg Lewis made it clear that Dr. Carson never mentioned those things during those moments when he was assisting Dr. Carson.

He knows Dr. Carson is very truthful. Alisyn, there are things in our lives, your life and our lives that we don't talk about, that sometimes can be very painful.

One of the things that happened during this is that we assumed that it may have been to take the risk. I'm the guy that spoke to "The Daily Beast," trying to react when the story was unfolding, I could not remember all the details from what Dr. Carson explained to her.

We since found out this happened back in '80 to '83. He could not recall the details. He talked to very few people about this. It did happen. As you continue the investigation, you find the truth out that Dr. Carson is honest and his credibility will still be intact.

CAMEROTA: Armstrong Williams, thanks so much for being on NEW DAY.

WILLIAMS: Always a pleasure.

CAMEROTA: Nice to talk to you. Let's get over to Michaela.

PEREIRA: Two outside investigators released new reports concerning the fatal police shooting of 12-year-old Tamir Rice. The results upsetting a whole lot of people. We'll take a look at the case, what's going on, get some reaction.

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[07:43:31]

PEREIRA: It's been nearly a year since 12-year-old Tamir Rice was shot and killed by a Cleveland police. Now two independent reports find that the officer's use of force was reasonable. Rice who was carrying a pellet gun was shot within seconds after police responded to 911, a call of someone with a gun.

Want to break it all down with CNN law enforcement analyst, Retired NYPD Detective Harry Houck and also with us CNN political commentator and host for "BET News," Mr. Marc Lamont Hill. Gentlemen, good to have you here.

This is tough for a lot of people to take. In particular, Harry, one of the reviewers or two reviewers, one of is a prosecutor and one of them is a 20-year veteran of the FBI.

The appearance of all of this we have to discuss. The body that will present info to the grand jury is posting this information. Is that going to compromise trust? Why release it now? What good does this going to do? Will it taint the jury pool?

HARRY HOUCK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: You see stuff like this happen all the time. This is a terrible tragedy that occurred to this young man, the fact that these are one of the tragedies that happen out there on the street from time to time. There's probably nothing you can do about it, the fact that these officers have been found that they were justified.

The grand jury is going to hear that now. They'll hear all that evidence. I read over the Ohio State Police report. They're going to get that. That's a 60-page report with all the information about how the shooting occurred. The grand jury will make a final decision here.

PEREIRA: What about the point that this will potentially taint the jury pool?

[07:45:00] HOUCK: I mean, is there a possibility? Yes. All these different cases that come out, you always have reports come out. You have the grand jury pools, jury pools for cases like that. This is what happens. We can't stop it.

PEREIRA: Is it what happens, Marc, do you think?

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: We can stop it, though. We absolutely can stop it. We can stop it by not doing it. It didn't have to be posted to the prosecutor's website or to the public. This was an inevitable result.

We could have not done this. Harry says that we could have a grand jury that can make its own decision. The truth is, the odds of a grand jury making a certain decision that goes counter to what the prosecutor had expressed or implied is almost impossible.

It's already nearly impossible to convict a police officer for the murder of a citizen. But when the prosecutor doesn't support a conviction or even a charge, it's absolutely impossible.

PEREIRA: I want to play some sound for you. This is from one of the attorneys for the Rice family. I want you to hear her reaction to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SUBODH CHANDRA, FAMILY ATTORNEY: These two so-called expert reports are written by pro law enforcement, pro-police folks. They have selective amnesia about certain critical facts that a reasonable jury could find means that those officers have committed a crime.

I'll give you a few of them. That the officers rushed up to Tamir in the vehicle and immediately got out and killed him. They didn't assess the situation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: Apologies to the attorney there. Harry, what is this criticism that the two people that are conducting these interviews or doing the investigation, rather, the review are pro-police?

HOUCK: Well, first of all, who can do the investigation? The police, the police conduct all these investigation, nobody else. This guy here is conducting an investigation on his own and he's not even stating any points of law here.

The fact that these police officers got on the scene and got out and shot the kid, it has nothing to do about the legality of what occurred, all right? You're talking about tactics here.

Of course, this is a defense attorney. He's not going to sit here and indemnify the officers if he thinks that they were right.

PEREIRA: Mark, I know one of the issues that is causing so many people consternation is the age of this child, 12 years old. The fact is, the dispatcher didn't alert those responding officers to the fact that the 911 caller said, "This person appears to be a juvenile." Should that dispatcher also take some of the blame for this? Bear some responsibility?

HILL: We'll certainly probably see that on the civil side. I'll leave it to the attorneys to decide whether or not the dispatcher should be charged. That was critical information to convey, not just his age, but also the fact that the gun is likely not real.

That's something that the officers should have been communicated. I don't blame the officers for that. What I do blame the officers for, is not making good decisions.

When harry says, well, that's a tactical choice. He's right. It's absolutely tactical. The fact that they made such a bizarre tactical choice to roll up on someone, thinking he had a gun and immediately get out and shoot.

It's not protocol to not cover themselves and not communicate from a distance. These are all basic police tactics.

HOUCK: We'll not talking about criminality here --

HILL: Hold on. Let me finish.

PEREIRA: Go ahead, Harry.

HOUCK: People want police officers to be shot at first, all right, to make sure their weapon is a real weapon instead of a toy here. Nobody knew at the time, as far as the officers were concerned, I don't care what the caller says, it's a toy gun. How does he know?

HILL: Are you serious?

HOUCK: If he pulls a weapon on me --

HILL: He didn't pull a weapon. You're not being honest.

HOUCK: That's the bottom line.

HILL: Harry, he didn't pull a weapon.

HOUCK: He had a weapon in his hand.

HILL: But the --

PEREIRA: All right. We'll leave it here, gentlemen. We have to wrap it up. It's a little difficult to do this when one of you is on remote, one is here. Thank you for bringing your passion to the subject as always -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: All right, Michaela, we're gearing up for tomorrow's big CNN Democratic debate. We have poll numbers on Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders and even the wild card, Joe Biden.

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[07:53:43]

CAMEROTA: So if you went to bed early last night, as you and I no doubt did, you missed an amazing finish in the last seconds of the Giants-49ers game. Coy Wire has all the details in this morning's "Bleacher Report." Tell us what we missed.

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn. Good morning, Michaela. The Niners had lost three in a row so they needed a win badly. Eli Manning was a man on a mission. My oh my, did this game end with a bang.

Just 1:45 left in the game. Niners Carlos Hyde, punches through, rings up the go-ahead score. Did the Niners leave Eli Manning too much time? Giants drive now, 26 seconds left, Manning to Donnell. Money. Who loves you, New York?

That's Larry Donnell with a great catch. What a throw by Eli. Giants win, 30-27. Eli Manning, the two-time Super Bowl champ becomes the winningest quarterback in Giants' history.

Now big baseball news breaking last night, the Dodgers Chase Utley has been suspended for this slide into Rubin Tejada. It happened in Saturday night's game two of the National League division series. Utley broke Tejada's leg in that collision.

Utley will appeal the decision, which will likely be heard before game three tonight. That's at 8:30 Eastern on CBS. The series is tied at a game a piece. Now the Cardinals and Cubs play before that on CBS as well with first pitch at 6:00 Eastern.

[07:55:05] American League action is on tap as well this afternoon where two teams have a chance to end their series. The Astros are up, 2-1, over the Royals. The Rangers need one more win over the Blue Jays.

Let's head to Vegas where John Berman is celebrating his win over the Cowboys and finding time to cover the upcoming Democratic debate.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR, "EARLY START": The Utley decision, interesting. Not so much about the playoffs, changing the tone going in Major League Baseball for plays like that. Coy Wire, thanks so much.

We are here for the Democratic debate, the first Democratic debate. It will take place right behind me at the Wynn Las Vegas, Tuesday night. What do the candidates need to do. We have brand-new polls out this morning, changes everything. It might change the strategy for Hillary Clinton. It might even change the calculations being made by Joe Biden. Stay with us.

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CAMEROTA: The final countdown to the first Democratic debate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Senator Sanders has been giving Hillary Clinton a run for her money in the polls.

CAMEROTA: The panel of voters gives us their take. Who wants Vice President Joe Biden to get in?

PEREIRA: "Washington Post" journalist, Jason Rezaian has been convicted.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There has been talk of the sentence possibly being between 10 to 20 years.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The victims' families --