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Clinton & Sanders Clash at CNN Debate. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired October 14, 2015 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAMEROTA: Thank you so much for breaking all of that down. So interesting as to watch the post-game wrap-up. And we have a lot more on CNN's Democratic debate coverage, so let's get right to it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[05:59:58] HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm not taking a back seat to anybody.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Climate change is real.

CLINTON: I have been as transparent as I know to be.

B. SANDERS: Enough of the e-mails. Let's talk about the real issues.

CLINTON: Thank you.

LINCOLN CHAFEE (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think we need someone that has the best in ethical standards as our next president. That's how I feel.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Secretary Clinton, do you want to respond?

CLINTON: No.

B. SANDERS: My Republican friends seem to have some amnesia.

JIM WEBB (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am the only candidate running for president who is not a billionaire.

MARTIN O'MALLEY (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You are not for Glass-Steagall.

COOPER: You've reached -- you're wasting time.

CLINTON: I'm a progressive who likes to get things done.

B. SANDERS: I believe in a society where all people do well, not just a handful of billionaires.

CLINTON: Diplomacy is not about getting to the perfect solution. It's about how you balance the risks.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota and Michaela Pereira.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY.

It is Wednesday, October 14, 6 a.m. in the East. Alisyn and I in Vegas, baby, Michaela in New York.

So this was the big night. We said the race would be different after this, and indeed it is. We'll have to wait for the numbers, but you've got to see for the first time, face to face, the two main choices in the Democratic ration right now, Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders.

They got a chance to talk policy. It was largely kept clean, and that gave more of an opportunity for them to be drilling down. They had Anderson Cooper really being like a maestro, taking them through, holding them accountable, testing them. The question is who made the grade, who did not?

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: What a night it was. For people who liked policy, you got some of that. For people who liked substance, you got some of that. It was not boring, as Donald Trump predicted. It was very compelling.

So the candidates, of course, were looking for a breakout moment, some of them had it. Some of them didn't. What happens to the Democratic field from here?

Let's begin CNN's comprehensive coverage with John Berman, who has stayed up all night watching it. And he joins us now with highlights.

CUOMO: That's not why you were up.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Fact check true, staying up all night.

Look, what you saw here was a lot of preparation. You saw candidates to looking to hit their marks on policy and personality. Hillary Clinton, she had done 25 presidential debates before this, and last night it showed.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN (voice-over): It may have been the first Democratic debate, but it was clear it was not Hillary Clinton's first rodeo, running down a debate checklist with surgical precision.

CLINTON: I would not ask anyone to vote for me based on my last name.

BERMAN: Her name, check. Her appeal to the grassroots and pragmatic wings of the party, check, check.

CLINTON: I'm a progressive, but I'm a progressive who likes to get things done.

BERMAN: Her gender, check, check, check.

CLINTON: I think being the first woman president would be quite a change from the presidents we've had up until this point.

BERMAN: Even apparently joking about an extended trip to the bathroom during commercial.

CLINTON: You know, it does take me a little longer. That's all I can say.

COOPER: That's right.

BERMAN: But on what might have been the biggest must-do on her list, addressing the questions surrounding the use of her private e- mail for national business, she had a surprising assist from her leading opponent, Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders.

B. SANDERS: The American people are sick and tired of hearing about your damn e-mails.

CLINTON: Thank you. Me too, me too.

BERMAN: Even earning a smile and a handshake.

Clinton didn't exactly return the favor in one of the sharpest exchanges in the night, when asked about Sanders' record of voting against certain gun control measures.

COOPER: Secretary Clinton, is Bernie Sanders tough enough on guns?

CLINTON: No, not at all. I think that we have to look at the fact that we lose 90 people a day from gun violence.

B. SANDERS: What I can tell Secretary Clinton, all the shouting in the world is not going to do what I would hope all of us want. And that is keep guns out of the hands of people who should not have those guns.

BERMAN: Sanders, the self-proclaimed democratic socialist, touted his battle against income inequality.

COOPER: You don't consider yourself a capitalist, though?

B. SANDERS: Do I consider myself part of the casino capitalist process by which so few have so much and so many have so little, by which Wall Street's greed and recklessness wrecked this economy? No, I don't.

BERMAN: Former Maryland governor, Martin O'Malley, looking for a breakout moment, hit hard on foreign policy.

O'MALLEY: Leading us into Iraq under false pretenses and telling us, as a people, that there were weapons of mass destruction there, was -- was one of the worst blunders in modern American history.

BERMAN: As for former Virginia senator, Jim Webb, polling in the single digits and barely campaigning, he fought to be noticed.

WEBB: I've been trying to get in this conversation about ten minutes. I've been waiting for ten minutes. I will say this...

COOPER: You're over your time.

WEBB: Well, you've let a lot of people go over their time.

COOPER: Former Rhode Island governor, Lincoln Chafee, seemed to struggle to answer questions about his record.

[06:05:00] CHAFEE: The Glass-Seagall was my very first vote. I'd just arrived. My dad had died in office. I was appointed to the office. It was my very first vote.

COOPER: Are you saying you didn't know what you were voting for?

BERMAN: Perhaps the most telling moment, maybe aspirational, was when Hillary Clinton was asked to list her enemies.

CLINTON: Well, in addition to the NRA, the health insurance companies, the drug companies, the Iranians, probably the Republicans.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: Now, more than any other candidate on that stage, she repeatedly tried to turn the focus from the ones on stage to the Republican Party. Hillary Clinton looking forward more than the other candidates.

And of course, none of the candidates did mention Joe Biden. There were five candidates on stage, but maybe a sixth candidate in consideration when it comes to this Democratic primary; and there were open questions about what he thinks now about getting in this race.

CAMEROTA: All right, John. Thanks so much for breaking all that down. Stay with us if you would. We want to break down everything that happened, get some analysis of the highlights and low lights.

We want to bring in Maggie Haberman. She's a CNN political analyst and a presidential campaign correspondent for "The New York Times"; CNN national political reporter, Maeve Reston, joins us; and Ron Brownstein, CNN senior political analyst and the editorial director of "The National Journal."

Great to have all of you with us.

Maggie, I just want to start with you, because obviously, you have covered Secretary Clinton on the campaign trail. The big challenge for her last night was to seem relaxed, spontaneous, relatable. How did she do?

MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I think she did great. She had one of the best -- she's a very, very good debater. You have to remember, she debated something like 25 times in the 2008 presidential primary.

She was very good in her Senate debates in 2000 in New York. So she is good at this. But she has not done this in seven years. And she really came back out onto the stage as if she never really left politics. She took a very long hiatus from them. She was poised, but she was not overly polished. She was funny. She was quick; and she was very effective, I think, in making her case against the person who she was most looking at, Bernie Sanders.

She did not shy away from taking a fight to him on specific issues. When an opening presented itself early on guns, she really seized on it. When she had the opportunity to describe herself as a progressive who likes to get things done, that was supposed to be a contrast to him.

There were a couple of not great moments. I would say Wall Street and her answers on breaking up the big banks is going to come back to haunt her. And that is an issue that I think riles up the Bernie Sanders base. But it was by no means a gaffe or a mistake. I think she did very well.

CUOMO: Riles her up with who would be the question. You know, Democrats aren't going to be fighting for the banks that much in the main. You'd have to expect.

But the debate comes down to moments. Let's look at some of the big moments last night and diagnose where we're calling them big in the first place. I think they have to give the headline to Bernie Sanders. He gave what is being called the gift to Hillary Clinton last night, when it comes to the scandal surrounding her e-mail. And in a larger sense, Benghazi. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

B. SANDERS: Let me say something that may not be great politics. But I think the secretary is right. And that is that the American people are sick and tired of hearing about your damn e-mails.

CLINTON: Thank you. Me too, me too.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Now, Ron, I've got to tell you, you do not hear that in politics that often.

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: No.

CUOMO: Asked the senator about it after the debate. He says, you know, "A lot of people would have played to advantage. It's a real issue for a lot of people." He said, "It was the right thing to do."

BROWNSTEIN: And look, we talked about it yesterday. I think there is not a big market in the Democratic primary electorate for attacking each other. They are worried about holding the White House, and they -- it's not the Republican context, where you have all this anger.

CUOMO: You have a lot of Democrats who are worried about whether or not this injures her.

BROWNSTEIN: Exactly. Exactly right. I mean, they have -- this has made it very difficult for the other Democrats to raise this in the rest of the primary. I think it's essentially closed the issue to a large extent in the primary. But it has not closed the issue entirely.

There are independent processes going on. And if she becomes the nominee, becomes an issue potentially in the general election. But it was an important moment for her. And especially when you consider, as we said yesterday, I think the one way they can beat her is, anybody can beat her, is by enough Democrats becoming convinced that she has been fatally compromised as a general election nominee. This makes that much more difficult.

CAMEROTA: On that same e-mail topic, there was a tell. There was a telltale sign when the question came up, and Anderson was asking it, and a smile crossed Hillary Clinton lips, and she began explaining it, meaning she had practiced, she had prepared. She was ready to hit it out of the park.

However, there are some things you can't practice, and that moment where Lincoln Chafee said, "You know, this is about credibility. The American people do care about credibility." Watch the moment that was seemingly spontaneous from Hillary Clinton.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHAFEE: I think we need someone that has the best in ethical standards as our next president. That's how I feel.

COOPER: Secretary Clinton, do you want to respond?

CLINTON: No.

COOPER: Governor -- Governor.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Maeve.

MAEVE RESTON, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: I mean, Joe Biden actually has shown us this before in past debates, the one-word answer just sometimes is devastating. It just shuts down the issue right there.

[06:10:00] And Chafee, interestingly, tried to come after her on character again and again in the debate. And, you know, at first, everyone is a little bit taken off-guard, like wait, who's this guy coming out of nowhere? But I think that those attacks often fell flat, because Hillary Clinton was always ready to come back with, like, just the sharp jab that would make it go away.

BERMAN: And that was the performance aspect where she did well, because you can't rehearse that "no" exactly.

RESTON: Right.

BERMAN: You can't rehearse the question about who your biggest enemies are, which we heard in the piece before. She couldn't know Anderson was going to ask that. She listed them, including the Iranians, then pausing and then saying the Republicans, she did well on her feet in the moment.

CUOMO: You're preaching to the converted here in this room. But what do you think about calling the Republicans an enemy?

BROWNSTEIN: Yes, I mean, you know, Democrats are looking for a fighter in this context. And that was the way she was using it.

CUOMO: Or are they tired of fighters?

BROWNSTEIN: No. I think -- I think in the party right now, in both parties, there is -- as the country is polarized, there's a big market for someone who will go out and assert the party's values.

I think you kind of broaden that point. To me, the biggest single message from the debate was where the overall Democratic Party has moved.

I mean, you see the magnitude of the bet they are placing here, Chris. I mean, relative to Obama and certainly relative to Ben Carson across a wide range of issues, they have all moved to the left. And they are betting that the market will bear more kind after aggressive role for government than the party has thought they could sell in recent election.

The country has changed. The coalition has changed. Has it changed as much as they think? That is now an open question.

BERMAN: And that's where Bernie Sanders won, but he won even before last night. The debate has shifted even before the first official debate.

RESTON: Well, it also was such an interesting contrast. Because you think about the way the Republicans have been doing that on the same side.

BROWNSTEIN: Right, right.

RESTON: So we have both parties moving farther and farther apart. All of these people in the middle watching these debates saying where do I belong?

BROWNSTEIN: Her strategy was she stopped just short of him. Hillary Clinton stopped just short of Bernie Sanders on five or six different issues. She didn't go all the way that he did. But it accumulatively moved her, you know, to the left. CUOMO: And I think the biggest moment of that, Maggie, to end up

with you, will be that she made that Denmark comparison last night.

BERMAN: She came out against Denmark.

CUOMO: When Bernie was trying to explain what socialism is and why he's not hewing to this type of capitalism, Hillary then said, "Well, we're not Denmark." Do you think that really drew a stark distinction for the voters?

HABERMAN: I do. And I think it was a pretty stark contrast. I mean, I think that one of the moments where Bernie Sanders struggled, he was trying to explain what democratic socialism is.

I think that Bernie Sanders did not -- I agree with everything that Ron said, by the way. I mean, I think that the party collectively has moved. And you saw that with all the candidates last night.

There were differences between them, but they were nowhere what we saw with the two Republican debates. It was very different.

And also, importantly, in terms of what Joe Biden's calculation is here or his interest in looking at this debate, I had a hard time discerning what the clear opening was for him getting into this race.

Among other things, you did see Hillary Clinton embrace President Obama. She used him to combat a question about her on the Iraq War. She pointed at him another of time. Another time she sounded very proud to have served in his administration.

So if you're Joe Biden and you're watching this debate, it is hard to see how you come away thinking, you know, she really is so wounded that there is a great opening here.

CUOMO: Well, I was hearing -- I was hearing from F.O.J., Alisyn, during the debate. The friends of Joe.

CAMEROTA: Friends of Joe.

CUOMO: And they were saying who's the alternative? Who's the alternative? That's the calculus. Is, is there an appetite for someone other than Hillary if she winds up getting beat up like a pinata over these e-mail and Benghazi questions? And that's still a real question.

CAMEROTA: All right, great. Maeve, Maggie, Ron, John, thanks so much.

We have much more coming up on NEW DAY. We have Democratic candidate and former Maryland governor, Martin O'Malley, he will be here. He will join us live in our next hour.

We'll speak with Hillary Clinton's campaign chair, John Podesta. And at 8 we'll hear from the Bernie Sanders campaign. His campaign manager, Jeff Weaver, will join us with what they thought were the highlights from last night.

CUOMO: Jeff Weaver has been working for Bernie Sanders for 20 years. Now you've got Bernie Sanders calling for a revolution in this country. We spoke to the Vermont senator right after the debate, and his wife about what it means to be a democratic socialist. Does he think he got past that question with the American voter? What did he say? You test it, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:18:16] CUOMO: This was a very big night for the race for the voter and for the candidates. This was their big moment.

And I'll tell you, in the moments right before those closing statements, I saw Bernie Sanders.

CAMEROTA: Yes?

CUOMO: He was sitting in a chair off the stage. His hands were on his lap. His eyes were closed. He was thinking. You know, you see Senator Sanders, and you're like, he's got this; this is what he does. This was a big night for him. Went up to him after the debate, he looked tired. Hillary looked tired. This was a big...

CAMEROTA: They gave a lot. I mean, they burned a lot of calories on that stage.

CUOMO: I had to chase him down, because he gave what they're calling the gift to Hillary Clinton last night. Yes, these are all Democrats. They're preaching to the converted. But he closed the door on the e-mail scandal. I've never seen anybody do it the way he did it.

We wanted to talk to him about it and about the experience. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: I saw you backstage right before the closing statements. You seemed like you were in a quiet moment. You were getting your thoughts together. Where was your head in that moment?

B. SANDERS: Well, my head was at trying to make the case in the short period of time that we have that, if the middle class of this country is going to survive, if we're going to deal with income and wealth inequality, we need some very profound changes to the way we do business in this country.

CUOMO: You harped on substance from the beginning about what you wanted this debate to be about. There was a lot of substance in it, I think, by all accounts. But the line of the night probably came from you and what people are calling a gift to Hillary Clinton. "Enough with your damn e-mail." What motivated that?

B. SANDERS: Well, what motivated that is that I think the American people want substantive discussions on substantive issues. Look, the middle class in this country is disappearing. We have

27 million people living in poverty. We have a campaign finance system which is corrupt. The rich are getting richer. Everybody else is getting poorer. Those are the issues that the American people want discussed.

[06:20:03] There is a process in place for the e-mail situation that Hillary Clinton is dealing with. Let it play itself out. As a nation, let us start focusing on why it is that so few have so much and so many have so little.

CUOMO: Others would have chosen to play to advantage. You did not because?

B. SANDERS: Because I think it was the right thing to do. I think the American people want substantive debate on the real issues that are affecting their families.

CUOMO: Do you think you overcame questions that people have as to the how with some of your plans and to the what when it comes to how you described yourself politically, democrat socialist?

B. SANDERS: Absolutely. I mean, I hope I did. I can't say that I did.

We are paying for every public policy idea that we brought forth. I think overwhelmingly, the American people do believe we have to rebuild our crumbling infrastructure and create millions of jobs doing that and that we pay for that by doing away with outrageous tax breaks that corporate America is getting.

The American people do understand that we have got to treat public colleges and universities tuition-free, so that all of our young people have the opportunity to go to college, regardless of their income. People are disgusted.

I can't tell you, Chris, whether they're Republicans, Democrats, moderates, progressives, people are disgusted with the campaign finance system that allows billionaires to buy elections.

CUOMO: What do you tell people to convince them that you can create the kind of large-scale sweeping change that you're asking for. Nobody is asking to do as much as you are. What do you tell them about how you can get it done?

B. SANDERS: What I can tell them is that tonight, there are probably 100,000 people at house parties as part of the Bernie Sanders campaign. We have brought out some of the largest crowds that people have seen in many, many years, that there is a level of energy and enthusiasm in our campaign that we're not seeing elsewhere.

People are ready for a political revolution. They're ready to transform America. That's what our campaign is about.

CUOMO: This is going to be a tough question for you. But the word is that the crowds are actually coming out to see Jane. Are you OK with that? She's here now. There's a lot of time where it started on you, the camera, then went to Jane. Are you comfortable with that?

But more importantly, I'd rather hear from Jane. How do you feel your man did tonight?

JANE SANDERS, WIFE OF BERNIE SANDERS: I think he did great. You know, he speaks the truth. He comes from principle. He knows what it believes, and he just put it out there.

CUOMO: Did it go quickly for you? What is the experience like? This was probably the biggest night so far in the campaign for you and everybody up there.

B. SANDERS: It did go very quickly. And I think the point needs to be made, is that while there are differences of opinion up here, this was a serious substantive debate on the major crises facing our country, unlike the Republican debate, which was name calling and, you know, it seemed like a food fight rather than a substantive debate.

CUOMO: Biggest thing that got left on the table tonight that you still want to address with the American people?

B. SANDERS: Income and wealth inequality. I don't think we spent enough time on that. To my mind, this is the great moral issue. It's the great economic issue; it's the great political issue. We should not be living in a country, Chris, where the top one-tenth of one percent owns as much wealth as the bottom 90 percent. That is just not right.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: Yes, I mean, income inequality. He had a laser-like focus on that last night. He kept bringing it back to that. That is his battle cry. And it works for him. I mean, he -- you know, he seems obviously very authentic when he talks about it. He gets applause lines. And so it was interesting to hear what he felt was the big issue.

CUOMO: Well, it works, because it's a real bridge issue. You know, the people who aren't doing well enough in this country are not owned by either political party. They're owned by both, and those who aren't with a party because of their lot in life. So it's certainly fertile ground. The question is, did he make the case to Democrats, to independents, that he's that person? Is he their choice? That's going to be -- that's going to be the bar for him. And really, for all of them, ultimately.

But I'll tell you what: it's a blessing and a curse what happened in this debate last night. He closed the door on that e-mail discussion for a lot of the people on that stage. They're going to be ashamed to talk about it.

But the voters have interest in Hillary's e-mails and in Benghazi.

So speaking of her, she is clearly the frontrunner. And I think objectively, you have to give it to her. Last night she came out strong and showed why she's in the lead. But she also, therefore, has the most to lose. How did she do in terms of protecting her interests for the general election? We talk to the big shots, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[06:28:51] CLINTON: You know, we know that if you are learning, you're going to change your position. I never took a position on Keystone until I took a position on Keystone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Well, that was Hillary Clinton defending her record against claims that she has flip-flopped for political gain. So did she put that criticism to rest last night?

Let's bring in former Hillary Clinton press secretary, Lisa Caputo; CNN political commentator and former Hillary Clinton presidential campaign manager, Patty Solis Doyle; and CNN political commentator and Republican strategist Kevin Madden. Great to have all of you here.

Kevin, I want to start with you. Because I know what the ladies will say as to whether or not Hillary Clinton hit that out of the park.

KEVIN MADDEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I'm not going to offer too many surprises either.

CAMEROTA: Anderson Cooper asked it a couple of different ways about whether or not she -- she says she's evolved. Her critics say she's flip-flopped. Let me play for you one more moment where this came up, and then you can answer how you thought she did.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: Like most human beings, including those of us who run for office, I do absorb new information. I do look at what's happening in the world.

You know, take the trade deal. I did say, when I was secretary of state three years ago, that I hoped it would be the gold standard. It was just finally negotiated last week. And in looking at it, it didn't meet my standards.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: How was that response?