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Biden Nearing Decision on White House Bid; Who's Winning the 2016 Money Race?; Benghazi Committee a Political Witch Hunt? Aired 6- 6:30a ET

Aired October 16, 2015 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have you made your decision yet?

[05:58:31] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We may be days away from learning whether Joe Biden will join the race for president.

JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Is there a lane? Yes. Is there a wide lane? Absolutely not.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have you made your decision yet?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's almost as if the Clinton campaign doesn't mind talking about Benghazi any more.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I love being la Hillary.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Money was never an issue for Jeb Bush.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If I don't win, I consider it to be a massive failure.

SGT. JONATHAN FROST, POLICE OFFICER: Refusing to give me you I.D. in a traffic stop is a misdemeanor.

DEVEN GUILFORD, KILLED DURING TRAFFIC STOP: I don't have to do that.

FROST: Get out of the car. Get out of the car. Son, get your hands behind your back. You're under arrest.

GUILFORD: You can't do that. Ow!

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota and Michaela Pereira.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Friday, October 16, 6 a.m. in the East. Brooke Baldwin by my side. Mick and Alisyn are out today, and they're missing big news, because there is a message from Joe Biden. A letter has gone out, telling supporters to get ready to give their all. CNN has learned the Biden family is totally on board with a

presidential run. All indications are that an announcement is eminent.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT/ANCHOR: All right. Here's what we know this morning. We're learning new details about what Biden's campaign message would be if he were to run.

What impact will a Biden bid have on the Democratic ticket? And we'll take a look at the money race. Which candidates are raking in the most -- the most dough.

We have the story covered for you only the way CNN can. So let's start with our senior Washington correspondent, Jeff Zeleny, who is live this morning for us in London.

Jeff Zeleny, what do you know? Good morning.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Brooke and Chris.

Right, Vice President Joe Biden has been calling top Democratic strategists in Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, those important early voting states, asking them if they would be on board if he decides to run. Now he's been doing all this stuff behind the scenes, but he's getting closer and closer to making his announcement, perhaps in the next week.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have you made your decision yet?

BIDEN: I can't hear you.

ZELENY (voice-over): As Vice President Joe Biden continues to evade the big question, this morning it appears he's closer to answering that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is there still an opening for you in the race, sir?

BIDEN: I'll tell you what, good to see you all.

ZELENY: Sources telling CNN that Biden's family supports a presidential run. The vice president personally making calls this week to Democratic strategists from Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina. The conversation how, not whether, he'll launch a campaign.

STEVEN SCHALE, DRAFT BIDEN STRATEGIST: With the stature he would bring to the race, the minute he got in the race the entire narrative would change; and we'd start talking about the first debate in Iowa in November.

ZELENY: New this morning, a look inside Biden's possible 2016 run. A close adviser to Biden, former Delaware Senator Ted Kaufman sent an e-mail obtained by CNN to his former staffers, asking for their help if the vice president decides to run. In it, Kaufman says, "It will be a campaign from the heart. A

campaign consistent with his values, our values and the values of the American people." Kaufman went on to say, "If he runs, he'll run because of his burning conviction that we need to fundamentally change the balance of our economy. And the political structure to restore the ability of the middle class to get ahead."

Kaufman also writing in the e-mail, Biden believes we must win this election or, in the hands of the Republicans, everything that he and the president have worked for and care about is at stake.

Friends of Biden who have spoken to him say he's not afraid to lose, even in the wake of a strong debate performance this week by Hillary Clinton and Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: How are you? Nice to see you.

ZELENY: The vice president has asked several Democratic strategists in early states to work for him if he decides to run. Fundraisers and supporters are also waiting in the wings to join his campaign if he moves forward.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZELENY: Now, Biden has run for president twice before, of course, and lost, in 1988 and then again in 2008. But he's never run before, of course, as a sitting vice president. He truly believes that he would be the best person to carry on this Democratic message forward. And he knows that time is running short and will announce his decision in the coming days -- Chris and Brooke.

BALDWIN: In the coming days we will wait for it. This could potentially be huge, obviously, for this 2016 race. Jeff Zeleny, thank you so much. We're going to loop back to that in just a moment.

First a 2016 candidates reporting their third-quarter fundraising numbers now. So who is winning the money race and building momentum coming out of those debates?

CNN chief business correspondent Christine Romans was singing "money, money, money" as she was walking into the studio this morning.

Good morning.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.

Look, money makes the political process go round, right? And they are raising an awful lot of money out there.

I want to show you the fundraising totals so far. These are year to date numbers right here. Remember, this is money raised by the campaigns. This does not include super PAC money. When you include super PAC money, there's a huge disparity. This is what the candidates have raised so far. And I think what you see here is the outsiders, you guys, are

disrupting the money game, just like they're disrupting the polling. In the third quarter, Ben Carson, almost $21 million. What's important to note here is the momentum here for Dr. Carson.

Jeb Bush, his supporters relieved this morning. He is still raising an awful lot of money, 13.4 million. More than in the first quarter. He's got a very aggressive ground game, guys, an expensive ground game. And we lost our board. He needs that money to keep coming in, and it is.

Look at Ted Cruz for me, please. Second quarter, 10 million. He raised more than 12 million in the third quarter. Again, that's the narrative of the outsider still drawing the money.

And Donald Trump, 3.8 million. He's not even soliciting donations, and he's still raising money.

Let's take a look at the Democrats. Hillary Clinton in the second quarter, 47 million; 29 in the third quarter. Look at Bernie Sanders. He's the outsider, again, with that momentum.

So again these are the numbers. This is what the candidates have raised. It's not super PAC money. That super PAC money is hundreds of millions of dollars. That can't be used for the day-to-day campaign operations. You'll see that in TV advertising probably later.

But these numbers show you that it's the outsiders still getting so much momentum. Worth noting, Bernie Sanders, 650,000 individual donors. That's way more than Hillary Clinton with 400,000 -- guys.

CUOMO: Yes. That is certainly a notable distinction. But otherwise, the main headline has to be, boy, there's a lot of money out there.

BALDWIN: A lot of money.

CUOMO: And people willing to give it to get influence.

All right, let's discuss the big news of the day, as well as this money round-up. Let's bring back Jeff Zeleny in London. Thank you for coming in on vacation, my friend. CNN national reporter Maeve Reston; and CNN political commentator and political anchor for New York One, Mr. Errol Louis.

Jeff, so in terms of let's circle back to your reporting there on Joe Biden. What is going on right now? Obviously, we're watching the timing, but if this is about the question of why more than how for the Biden people, what are you hearing?

[06:05:12] ZELENY: There's no doubt about that, Chris. He is calling around to gauge support, to see if there is the traction, if there is the space, the oxygen in this Democratic presidential campaign. He simply believes that he would be the best nominee for this party. Not surprising, of course. He was in the Senate for, you know, four decades. He's long

wanted to be president. Being so close to President Obama all these years has made him want that even more.

He believes there is room. In this year of authenticity, when voters are craving an unscripted, authentic candidate, he believes he could be that person.

Now, the question is will he go forward with this? The Democratic Party has seen him flirt with this before and then back away. Many people believe he will back away this time.

But I can tell you, Chris, people who he is actually talking to are left with the impression that he is running. I talked with somebody who talked with him just last night, and they said, "Gosh, he sure sounds like he's running." So we'll find out in the coming days.

BALDWIN: So here's my question, Errol, to you, if he does go for it, there are a lot of Biden people who are currently working with the Hillary Clinton campaign. They know the secret playbook. They know strategy. Would they be able to jump ship and support Biden, therefore, taking trade secrets with them?

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, the highest level of these professionals, they may, in fact, have signed nondisclosure agreements. So that's how you take care of that.

On the other hand, you know, this is -- it's not really rocket science how you decide to sort of run and where we're going to put the emphasis on this state or that state. And frankly, we could probably game it out here at the table about as well as anybody could sort of take to the Biden campaign.

So if he's going to get an advantage, it's not going to be from that. I mean, it's going to be from some of the endorsements that she's gotten. I think she has, like, over 100 members of Congress have already endorsed Hillary Clinton. When some of them start to peel off or maybe shift to neutral, that's where it really starts to make a difference.

The strategy itself, though, it's going to be money, money, money, very much as Christine said, plus getting a ground game in place very, very quickly in the early states.

CUOMO: Well, also, trade secrets are really not a big factor of doing these types of campaigns. There's very little that is unknown, right? It's about who you locked in in terms of the bigger names, the more valuable names in terms of analysis and polling to help you with your ground game. A lot of them are taken up. That's true.

But Maeve, to you, the question with Joe Biden is a different analysis than it would be if it were a different politician, because this is a man who's going to run if he feels it, as opposed to whether, forensically, it makes sense. It is a stark contrast between team Biden and team Clinton. What are you hearing about that? MAEVE RESTON, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, when you

talk to Biden sources out there, they say that, as Jeff noted, that the first concern here is family. We know that he's spending every weekend with his grandchildren right now. His family has obviously been through a very difficult time.

And so that is what's made it such a difficult decision for him at a time when everyone is grieving. But there is a very clear calculus here, not just on the family side, the personal side but also the money side. I mean, you have to think about Hillary Clinton's donors, right?

The Clinton world has known -- been known for a long time about, you know, keeping their enemies close and making sure that people stay on their side. So you're not going to see a situation like you do on the Republican side where donors are giving to two candidates at the same time.

And I think that's really one of biggest factors here for Joe Biden. He's got staff out there that want to work for him. He's got, you know, the ability to pull a ground game together really quickly. But the question is whether or not donors will give to him without fear of retribution from Clinton's campaign.

BALDWIN: What about just from money, Jeff Zeleny, to just the thrust of his campaign? You talked about this letter from Senator Kaufman to the Biden network. What more have we gleaned from that as far as platform campaign? I know it's an optimistic campaign, they say.

ZELENY: It would be. It would be an optimistic campaign as a fighter for the middle class, middle class values. Essentially a third term of this president, which of course, would not necessarily be welcomed by a lot of voters out there. I mean, the president's approval rating is still pretty low, hovering just below 50 percent. So that would be a challenge. But in the Democratic primary, it would be a welcome message here.

But one other thing to keep in mind here. One advantage that the vice president would have, he, I'm told, would have access to that e- mail list, the Obama campaign e-mail list that served him so well in 2008 and 2012. Joe Biden was his running mate, of course. So he is a part owner of that. So he would start out with that huge advantage he could use.

And he's also looking to some potential early endorsements from some labor unions. Some key international labor unions have been sitting on the sidelines, essentially waiting for this. The firefighters, SEIU, Teamsters, steelworkers. And he has a long connection in history with them. So if they would -- if he would jump in, look for some early labor endorsements to help him out.

CUOMO: Do you think money matters, Errol, to -- in terms of making the decision? In terms of how you run the campaign? Obviously, money greases the way. But with Joe Biden specifically, do you think he's out there, asking the people whether or not the money is there, or do you think he's more just figuring out who's with him to take on this last cause?

[06:10:12] LOUIS: Well, of course, it's all of it. But I don't think -- I think you're right. The money is not the big question. The big question is the why. You know? We understand he's going to try and sort of put things in place, and he's talking to strategists and so forth.

But which parts of the Obama agenda is he going to separate himself from? If he goes -- and carries that whole book of business in, if he, as Jeff suggested, maybe essentially is trying to run for a third Obama term, there's -- there's a lot that he's going to have to answer for. The Arab Spring, the faltering of the economy this summer.

You know, I mean, there are going to be a lot of different things. So we want to see, we'll need to see, which pieces of the Obama agenda is he going to sort of create a subtle distinction from?

And this is something that Hillary Clinton had been doing for the last few months on the Keystone XL Pipeline, a number of different -- Arctic drilling, a number of different issues. If Joe Biden is going to just be one more time the same old stuff, you know, hope and change but, you know, minus the change, I don't know if that's going to work.

CUOMO: The easy decision for him is to not run. Everybody would understand it.

BALDWIN: Right.

CUOMO: He's had, you know, a very established career. This was a pinnacle of it being vice president of the United States. I can't tell you how many Democrats are saying after the debate. That's great; everybody's good. They did a good job.

But wow, imagine if you could combine Hillary Clinton, her head, her idea, her pedigree with the passion of Bernie Sanders to tap into the base of the party. And for a lot of people, that combination is Joe Biden. So that's a very tempting thing for a guy who's always wanted to fight the good fight.

BALDWIN: Since 1988, the first time he ran.

CUOMO: Since right before that. You know, Joe's always had his heart in the -- Maeve knows, anybody who's been around Joe Biden, he is a fighter. He wants to make the fight.

So this has got to be some balanced decision that he has going on inside him right now. Great reporting from you, Jeff; perspective from Maeve, thank you. Errol, thank you for the inside word.

As always, this afternoon, great perspective for you on this issue, Jake Tapper sitting down exclusively with Hillary Clinton. I wonder what he's going to ask her.

BALDWIN: How about that?

CUOMO: Watch "THE LEAD" today with Jake Tapper right here at 4 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.

BALDWIN: Now to this: split reaction from Republican candidate over the president's decision to delay U.S. troop withdrawal in Afghanistan, Senator Lindsey Graham and former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee, blasting the president while Ohio Governor John Kasich and New Jersey Governor Chris Christie support Obama.

The president standing firm, saying he has no choice as the Taliban gains ground; and Kabul appeals for an ongoing American aide.

CUOMO: Former House speaker Dennis Hastert in the news, reaching a plea deal on charges he lied to federal investigators about $3.5 million in hush money payments.

Two sources with knowledge of the investigation tell CNN back in June that Hastert was paying a former student to stay quiet about allegations of sexual abuse during his team as a wrestling coach and teacher. The plea deal, well, we know what that means: allegations may never be made public, including the identity of the accuser, only known as "Individual A."

BALDWIN: Also this morning, a Kosovo man under arrest, accused of handing over U.S. military data to ISIS. Federal investigators say Ardit Ferizi allegedly hacked into the computer system of a U.S. company and stole personal information of at least 1,300 members of the military, federal employees, as well. That list later posted online by a group calling itself the Islamic State Hacking Division. Ferizi is being held in Malaysia, where he had gone to study computer science. U.S. authorities have asked for his extradition.

CUOMO: The family of a Michigan teenager fatally shot by a police officer during a traffic stop is now suing the officer and the county for wrongful death. According to the suit, five minutes after 17-year-old Deven Guilford was pulled over for flashing high beams at a cop, he was shot seven times and killed. And for the first time, we're seeing the video of the encounter.

CNN's Jean Casarez joins us more with that. What do we see?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Chris and Brooke, this is very difficult video to watch. But look at the details. Focus in on the fine points, and trust me: you will think about this story all day.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FROST: Driver's license and registration, proof of insurance. I pulled you over because you flashed me. And you're having a great time.

CASAREZ (voice-over): Watch this police body camera video, 17- year-old Deven Guilford, on his way to his girlfriend's house back in February. Sergeant Jonathan Frost pulling him over for flashing his high beams.

FROST: Driver's license, registration, proof of insurance, please. I did not have them on. Driver's license, registration, proof of insurance, please.

GUILFORD: How do I even know you're an officer?

CASAREZ: Sergeant Frost asked several times for Guilford's license. He refuses, questioning why he was stopped.

GUILFORD: Am I being detained?

FROST: Yes, you are.

GUILFORD: For what crime?

FROST: You flashed me with your high beams.

GUILFORD: You had your lights on, sir.

CASAREZ: Guilford begins recording their interaction on his cell phone.

[06:15:03] FROST: You can start to comply with this traffic stop or you're going to be taken to jail.

CASAREZ: The officer calls for backup as the situation escalates.

FROST: You do not have your driver's license on your person, correct?

GUILFORD: Yes, I do.

FROST: Where is it?

GUILFORD: You don't have to see it. I cannot see -- you had your lights on, sir. I'm not lying to you. I was just doing that to be polite. I didn't want you to flash someone and have someone go off the road and crash, you know?

FROST: You realize if you don't comply with this traffic stop, it would have gone a whole different way for you.

CASAREZ: The officer sees Guilford try to make a phone call and orders him out of the car.

FROST: Out of the car or you're going to get Tased. Everything is being recorded, son. I've got no problem with that. Get out of the car. Get down on the ground now. Down on the ground.

GUILFORD: Oh, my gosh, stop yelling at me.

FROST: Down on the ground. Right here. Facing me. Down on the ground. Now.

GUILFORD: What do you mean?

FROST: Get on your belly. Right now.

GUILFORD: This is what American...

FROST: Put your phone down and put your arms out to your side now.

CASAREZ: Sergeant Frost kicks Guilford's cell phone away.

GUILFORD: I don't have a weapon. You can't do that.

FROST: Get your hands behind your back. You're under arrest.

CASAREZ: Just about 90 seconds before backup arrives, Sergeant Frost Tases Guilford, but he's too close for it to work properly. Roughly 14 seconds later, you hear gunshots.

Sergeant Frost says Guilford attacked him, hitting him repeatedly with his fist. Take a look at this slow-mo, frame by frame. You can make the scuffle out just a little more clearly.

FROST: Central Point 272. I shot one. Priority backup. Send EMS. I'm bleeding.

CASAREZ: This body cam video captures Sergeant Frost at the scene, transported to the hospital with these injuries.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CASAREZ: Sergeant Frost was cleared of all wrongdoing, the prosecutor concluding that Frost was acting in self-defense, that he reasonably believed at that moment that he could die or receive serious bodily injury.

Now, the damage to the body camera, it was found all over the scene; and the medical examiner is finding that Guilford's wounds were from the front. The trajectory also indicated a fight happened.

The family now filing a federal and civil lawsuit alleging officer excessive force. And I've got to tell you this. The prosecutor's report says the father said that, before that, in the days before his son had become so focused on the Internet with officer/civilian shootings, pulling over cars and perceived officer misconduct. And his father had tried to tell him, all officers aren't like that, but it formed his state of mind, apparently, at that point.

BALDWIN: He pulled out his own cell phone. You see the split screen of his own cell phone with the body cam. We're talking to two family attorneys here from this case later on this morning. But how quickly -- how quickly it escalates there. Jean, thank you so much.

CUOMO: All right. We're going to be talking a lot about politics this morning, as well. Hillary Clinton's top aide is set to appear before the House Benghazi Committee behind closed doors today. Why is that politics? Well, because of all the suggestions that this committee has become as much about political motivations as it is keeping Americans safe.

Was it just a waste of taxpayer dollars? What will Huma Abedin say when she sits down? What will Hillary Clinton say next week when she testifies? She may have more questions than answers for the panel.

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[06:22:16] BALDWIN: With less than a week before Hillary Clinton's testimony before the Benghazi committee, her top aide, Huma Abedin, is set to be interviewed by the panel today. The committee dealing with its own problems, with mounting criticism of being politically motivated.

So with us this morning, CNN political commentator and Washington correspondent for "The New Yorker," Ryan Lizza. And he is back: Errol Louis, CNN political commentator, political anchor at New York One.

So Ryan Lizza to you first here, with Abedin's appearance at this committee today, what kind of back and forth should we expect here?

RYAN LIZZA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, remember, her appearance today, Brooke, is going to be behind closed doors.

So we're not -- you know, stuff will leak out. Maybe she'll come out and talk to the press afterwards. We're not going to know exactly what goes on.

The other thing is, Congress is on recess this week, and that means that most members of the committee are not around. So it's likely that the professional staff on this committee will be the ones grilling her.

BALDWIN: You don't think the committee members will all be present?

LIZZA: I mean, have you ever talked to a congressman who likes to come back to Washington, D.C., while they're on break on a Friday?

BALDWIN: Have you talked to congressmen about what happened in Benghazi?

LIZZA: Even for something more high-profile. Maybe some of the ones who are really committed to talking to her will be there. But CNN is reporting, and some of the other "Washington Post" reporting is that most members are out of town and might not be there.

CUOMO: But they're going to have -- you have organizational requirements in terms of the formation and function of the committee. Certainly, they know there's heightened scrutiny right now. It's not a good day to skip, you could argue. Ryan, Errol, the question becomes how does this committee change in light of the recent suggestions? I mean, one would think, common sense dictates that they better get very wholesome, and pure and focused on what a committee is supposed to do real fast. Right?

LOUIS: Well, I think we left common sense behind, gentlemen. That's why this has now lasted longer than the Watergate inquiry has lasted. This is not being driven by common sense. And to a certain extent I think these folks are going to, really, sort of play to the very bitter end the same hand that they've been playing all along, that something nefarious has happened, that everyone is lying, that there's some kind of cover-up and that they are going to find it.

I think they're going to be greatly disappointed in that process, because whatever, for good or bad, whatever happened in Benghazi, whatever we know about that, and frankly, the derivative issue of the e-mails, I think -- I think everybody has sort of made up their mind about it. I don't think there's going to be some kind of smoking gun memo that they're going to discover.

CUOMO: Right. But you have the tantalizing nature of the unknown, right? Well, we don't know what else happened.

LOUIS: Right.

CUOMO: You can read so much into that suggestively, especially in a toxic political environment. But then you have to cut that against what is a legitimate pushback? OK, the Democrats are saying, team Hillary especially is saying, look what they said, McCarthy- Hanna. This is about...

[06:25:02] BALDWIN: Whistleblower.

CUOMO: That doesn't mean that it's a witch hunt. Of course, if it's about you, if it's about what happened at 2 p.m. in the afternoon on CNN, we're coming after you. That's your space.

BALDWIN: Right.

CUOMO: So how do you decide, Errol, whether or not that's a witch hunt, or "You were in charge. We don't know what happened. We're coming at you"?

LOUIS: Well, keep in mind, you know, the original witch hunt, there are no witches, right? So if this is a witch hunt, they're not going to find it. They don't exist, right? They're not going to find anything.

I mean, I think in this case, what they're going to do is Huma Abedin, for better or worse, and I've met her a few times. I worked with her husband a little bit in the news media. They -- they have started to use her name in the right-wing talk circles. If you turn on radio and you listen to some of it, she's sort of listed with Cheryl Mills and Hillary Clinton as the bad guys, the bad team. So I think there are going to be some people who want to ritualistically...

CUOMO: Cheryl Mills in the council's office.

LOUIS: Yes. Who want to ritualistically, almost, sort of beat up on her or say that they beat up on her, that they asked her and they didn't like her, and she didn't say what they wanted to hear.

Whether it's behind closed doors, whether they sort of come out and tell tales about it, I think we all know how this will play out. The main event, of course, is next week when Mrs. Clinton herself appears before the committee.

LIZZA: Can I -- can I make one point about this committee that's the real tragedy of what the Republicans or the mistake the Republicans made here?

We had a pretty major policy failure in Libya, right? We attacked a country, were part of a coalition that attacked it, and didn't really have a plan for what happens after Gadhafi fell.

The last time a president did that in Iraq, it was a pretty big deal, right? And I think this committee had a bit of a responsibility to sort of investigate that. Why did this policy failure happen?

Instead, they got so caught up in the rabbit hole of the details of exactly what happened on that night in Benghazi, trying to get Hillary Clinton and her aides and frankly delving into what sounds like...

CUOMO: Did they get caught up or did they create it?

LIZZA: I think they just -- they wanted -- they decided the committee was more -- it was more important to damage specific people politically, rather than get to the bottom of how did Libya turn into this hell hole of -- of terrorists?

And if you want to answer that question, you've got to go back to the original policy. And I think that's a very important question that they missed by focusing so much...

BALDWIN: But do you think they'll deliver on that? You know, we talked about the witch hunt and the lack of witches? Do you think on that very short point, they'll deliver?

LIZZA: Some of those questions have been raised and some of the committees have been about those subjects.

But when the e-mail scandal started, they decided that "Aha, this could be what takes Hillary Clinton down." And they just obsessively focused on that.

Now Hillary Clinton uses Benghazi and the committee as a shield to block questions about Libya policy, e-mails, anything. It's just, "Oh, it's that partisan Benghazi committee." I think they've shot themselves in the foot and prevented a real investigation from happening -- happening.

CUOMO: Of course, Brooke, they'll get plenty of other bites at that April, though. You could make the same argument about Afghanistan. You could make the same argument about what's still going on in Iraq and probably add Syria to the list in the not too distant future.

BALDWIN: We'll talk a ton more about Afghanistan. It wasn't necessarily an issue in the debate, but it was big news from the president yesterday. Repercussions looking ahead to 2016 and 2017. Errol Louis and Ryan Lizza, thank you so much. CUOMO: All right. So news of an urgent meeting at the U.N.

today to try to stop the deadly violence between the Palestinians and the Israelis. But is it already too late for that? Are we reaching into a new cycle? We're going to talk to Israel's ambassador to the U.S., next.

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