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U.S. Forces in Afghanistan; Family Sues Over Son's Traffic Stop Death. Aired 8:30-9a ET
Aired October 16, 2015 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[08:31:13] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: President Obama announcing another delay bringing U.S. troops home from Afghanistan. Deployment levels will remain near 10,000 for much of next year. Will the U.S. ever be fully out of Afghanistan? Joining me now, Pentagon Press Secretary Peter Cook.
Good morning to you, sir.
PETER COOK, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: Good morning.
BALDWIN: Let's go straight to the numbers, just to review for everyone watching - 9,800 troops through 2016, 5,500 by January '17. The White House says the Pentagon suggested those numbers. You tell me, how did you all arrive at that?
COOK: Well, this was based on extensive deliberations between Secretary Carter, the military leadership here in the Pentagon and, of course, conversation with the rest of the president's national security team. And what these numbers will do will allow basically be able to fulfill our two national security objectives here, which is to continue to train and advise and support the Afghan national security forces as they continue to take ownership for the security of Afghanistan. You know, this is their first fighting season with the Afghan forces in the lead. And, second of all, it's going to allow us to continue our counterterrorism efforts to go after the remnants of al Qaeda, other extremist groups in Afghanistan that want to do American's harm.
BALDWIN: I know that part of this is about the Afghan security forces. We heard from the president, again, Secretary of Defense Ash Carter, you know, your boss, echoing the same bit that they feel like they are stronger, yet they were utterly defeated a little while ago in Kunduz in northern Afghanistan. I've asked this question to a lot of people who have served in Afghanistan but don't know current. You would know. How effective are the Afghans in fighting?
COOK: Well, you point to the situation in Kunduz and certainly that was a setback. But you also have to look at what they've done since then. The resiliency of the Afghan security forces, they have moved back into Kunduz. They've effectually taken back much of that city again. It reflects the tenacity of the Afghan security forces and also the reality that this is still a very hard fight in Afghanistan. They have made significant progress. They have made significant
sacrifice as well. There are a lot of Afghans who have lost their lives fighting on behalf of their country. The security forces are improving. We seem them on a better path and that's been in large measure because of the support that we and our NATO allies have provided to those Afghan security forces, but there is still room for improving. There is still assistance that can be brought to bear for the Afghan forces to bolster them heading into the next fighting season and to, again, allowing them to take ownership for the security of the country on their own.
BALDWIN: The president mentioned, you know, Iraq specifically and I just want to hear you lay it out. You know, lessons learned, because but now know the enemy there, ISIS.
COOK: Well, that's right, and, of course, we've seen ISIS - ISIL make an effort in Afghanistan as well. And there are lessons to be learned from Iraq but you also have to remember that this is a different situation than what we saw - what we've seen in Iraq. For example, the Ghani government, the unity government in Afghanistan, has welcomed the U.S. presence in that country. It's asked us to remain, asked us to remain flexible with regard to our troop levels.
This is a government that we've worked with very closely. We want to support the Afghan government going forward. And there are situations on the ground, the circumstances on the ground are different between Afghanistan and Iraq. So it's not a perfect comparison, not a perfect parallel. But there's certainly lessons to be learned from Iraq and lessons learned based on our 14 years in Afghanistan so far. This troop level is based on an assessment of the situation on the ground from our top military commanders.
BALDWIN: Final question, Peter, because I'd have to - I would be remiss in not asking you about some of the reporting we've had this morning, the breaking news, that a Russian drone -going to Syria, a Russian drone was shot down by Turkish air force infringing upon Turkish air space. We also know in the last couple of days reports of a Russian jet and an American jet flying all too closely in air space as well. I mean doesn't this concern you?
[08:35:02] COOK: Well, of course we've talked at length about the previous reports of Russian incursions into Turkish air space, which I will note also is NATO air space. The secretary met with the Turkish defense minister just last week on our visit to NATO headquarters in Brussels. This is a violation, again NATO air space as well.
I've seen those reports this morning. I can't confirm exactly what's happened in Turkey but this is a - it is a cause for concern and it's a reason - particularly you mentioned the - the intercept between the aircraft. This is why we are working with the Russians, been in communications with the Russians, specifically on this notion of safety protocols be put in place to make sure that coalition air crews and Russian air crews, for that matter, are not at risk of some sort of accident in the skies over Syria. We can agree with the Russian's on that simple, that very basic issue about safety over Syria. We don't agree with the Russian's on very much else. BALDWIN: Peter Cook, thank you so much for taking the time this Friday
morning to talk to us hear on NEW DAY. I appreciate it.
Chris, to you.
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right. We're all over this story this morning. Another traffic stop turns deadly. This one in Michigan. The officer cleared of all charges. The victims' family is suing. You know the question, did this have to happen? We will speak with the family's attorney ahead.
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[08:40:16] CUOMO: Time now for cinco (ph) cosas (ph), the five things you need to know for your NEW DAY.
Number one, Joe Biden is like this. He's rolling his neck around. He's loosening his shoulders. He's getting ready. The big decision expected in three days. Will he or will he not run for president? He's been reaching out to political pros and pockets. Will he fight the good fight? We will know soon.
Two, the Turkish military shooting down a drone that crossed into its air space from Syria. The U.S. says it was a Russian drone. Russia says all aircraft accounted for.
Three, a Kosovo man arrested in Malaysia, accused of swiping info of U.S. military members and federal employees and passing it to ISIS. The U.S. now applying for the 20-year-old's extradition.
Four, Hillary Clinton's top aid speaking behind closed doors with a House Benghazi Committee today. Huma Abedin's appearance comes six days before Clinton's testimony.
And, five, the New York Mets moving on to the national league championship series after a thrilling 3-2 victory over the Los Angeles Dodgers last night. They face the Chicago Cubs, talk about history, for the pennant. Game one tomorrow night takes place in the proving ground of the manliest of men, Queens, New York.
For more on the five things to know, go to newdaycnn.com for the latest.
Brooke.
BALDWIN: Is that where you learned how to be a man?
CUOMO: Of course it is. Of course it is.
BALDWIN: So last week we announced the top ten CNN Heroes of 2015. One of them, Dr. Jim Withers. For 23 years, he's been venturing out at night to bring free medical care to Pittsburgh's homeless. More than 10,000 people in total, all with the message, you matter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JIM WITHERS: It's not hard to go out to see them, it's hard going home at night and knowing there are people still sleeping out there. Once you know they're there, it haunts you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: His stories and so many others. Just go to cnnheroes.com. And while you're there perusing, check out all of this year's top 10 heroes and then we want you to vote for your favorite CNN Hero of the Year.
CUOMO: All right, big story this morning.
BALDWIN: Yes.
CUOMO: A teen gunned down during a traffic stop. The officer, cleared of any wrongdoing. Well now the victim, Deven Guilford's family, is suing. We're going talk with the Guilford family's lawyers ahead.
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[08:46:12] BALDWIN: The family of a Michigan teenager taking legal action after their son was killed by a police officer during a traffic stop. The officer was cleared of any criminal wrongdoing the shooting. We know the family has filed a wrongful death lawsuit. We are also seeing video of this deadly encounter for the very first time.
CNN's Jean Casarez is following the developments for us. She is with us now.
I've watched this video twice through. It is tough to watch.
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's hard to watch. It's very hard. The family is saying that it was an illegal traffic stop because the young man flashed his brights and then -- at the officer, because he believed his lights were too bright. But the Michigan state law says, what every driver needs to know, it is illegal to use or flash your headlights at an oncoming drive if you're within 500 feet of them. Well this was a six-minute body cam video. It is condensed. It escalates, it escalates, it escalates and it escalates. Just watch.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DEVEN GUILFORD, UNARMED TEEN STOPPED AT TRAFFIC STOP: How are you doing?
SGT. JONATHAN FROST, EATON COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: I need your driver's license, registration, proof of insurance, please. Pulled you over today because you flashed me. I didn't even have my brights on.
GUILFORD: Yes you did, sir.
CASAREZ (voice-over): Watch this police body camera video. Seventeen- year-old Deven Guilford on his way to his girlfriend's house back in February, Sergeant Jonathan Frost pulling him over for flashing his high beams.
FROST: Driver's license, registration, proof of insurance, please. I did not have them on.
GUILFORD: (INAUDIBLE)
FROST: Driver's license, registration, proof of insurance, please.
GUILFORD: I don't know even know you're an officer.
CASAREZ: Sergeant Frost asked several times for Guilford's license. He refuses, questioning why he was stopped.
GUILFORD: Am I being detained?
FROST: Yes, you are.
GUILFORD: For what crime?
FROST: You flashed me with your high beams.
GUILFORD: You had your brights on, sir.
CASAREZ: Guilford begins recording their interaction on his cell phone.
FROST: You can get with the program and start to comply with this traffic stop or you are going to be taken to jail.
CASAREZ: The officer calls for backup as the situation escalates.
FROST: You do not have your driver's license on your person? Correct?
GUILFORD: Yes, I do.
FROST: Where is it?
GUILFORD: You do not have to see it. I cannot see -- You had your brights on, sir. I'm not lying to you. I was just doing that to be polite. I didn't want you to flash someone and have someone go off the road and crash. You know?
FROST: Do you realize that if you would have complied with this traffic stop it would have gone a whole different way for you.
CASAREZ: The officer sees Guilford try to make a phone call and orders him out of the car.
FROST: Out of car or you are going to get tased. Everything is being recorded, son. I have no problem with that. Get out of the car. Get down on the ground. Now. Down on the ground!
GUILFORD: Oh my gosh. Stop yelling at me.
FROST: Down on the ground! Right here. Facing me. Down on the ground. Now. GUILFORD: What do you mean?
FROST: Get on your belly. Right now.
GUILFORD: This is what Americans --
FROST: Put your phone down and put your arms out to your side now.
CASAREZ: Sergeant Frost kicks Guilford's cell phone away.
GUILFORD: I don't have a weapon. Hey! You can't do that!
FROST: Son, get your hands behind your back. You're under arrest.
CASAREZ: Just about 90 seconds before backup arrives, Sergeant Frost tases Guilford but he's too close for it to work properly. Roughly 14 seconds later you hear gunshots.
Sergeant Frost says Guilford attacked him, hitting him repeatedly with his fist. Take a look at this slow-mo frame by frame. You can make the scuffle out just a little more clearly.
FROST: Central Point Z72. I shot one. Priority backup. Send EMS, I'm bleeding.
CASAREZ: This body cam video captures sergeant frost at the scene transported to the hospital with these injuries.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Looks like a small abrasion on the back of the head.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BALDWIN: That officer was cleared of wrongdoing, the prosecutor concluding Frost was acting in self defense. Among sited evidence, damage to the body camera. The teen's - Guilford's wounds were from the front, indicating a struggle. The family now filing a federal (INAUDIBLE) lawsuit alleging the officer used excessive force, violated their son's constitutional rights and wrongfully caused his death.
[08:50:09] Joining me now are attorneys for Deven Guilford's family, Hugh Davis and Cynthia Heenan. Thank you so much for being with me this morning, to both of you.
And let me just begin with, first, just thinking of his parents, I imagine they have seen this body cam video. Can you just briefly first give me their assessment having seen it?
HUGH DAVIS, ATTORNEY FOR DEVEN GUILFORD'S FAMILY: They are very respectful of law enforcement. And they assumed until they saw that video that Deven must have done something seriously wrong in order to cause himself to be shot. When the report finally came out and they saw the video, they were shocked. And it has deeply shaken their faith in the honesty and the integrity of the law enforcement process. BALDWIN: I do have to ask you about when Deven is asked multiple
times, you know, provide -- Even though he obviously disagrees with why he's being pulled over, you know he's being asked for his license, proof of insurance, registration. I just want to play a little bit more from the exchange with this officer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FROST: You have two choices. You can get with the program and start to comply with this traffic stop, or you are going to be taken to jail. Those are your two choices. Driver's license, registration and proof of insurance, please.
GUILFORD: I do not have my license, sir. I am going to get it.
FROST: You don't have your driver's license?
GUILFORD: I do not have it.
FROST: Why is that?
GUILFORD: Because I just drove my brother to the church.
FROST: You do not have your driver's license on your person, correct?
GUILFORD: Yes, I do.
FROST: Where is it?
GUILFORD: You do not have to see it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Cynthia, you know, hindsight 20/20 and we have a lost life. But why do you think Deven didn't initially say, left my wallet with my girlfriend, was playing basketball with my brother and I do not have it, sir?
CYNTHIA HEENAN, ATTORNEY FOR DEVEN GUILFORD'S FAMILY: Obviously, I can't speak to that since we haven't been able to ask him. But I think he's a 17-year-old kid. He's confused. He doesn't feel like he should be being stopped. And we agree, actually, and disagree with your earlier comment that it is illegal to flash lights at an oncoming car.
But I think the important thing is that it was a civil infraction, not something that deserved a death sentence. The officer was the adult in the room. He could easily have just stepped back, waited for backup and let the situation resolve.
BALDWIN: I do have the Michigan Motor Vehicle Code. If you are -- and I don't know how far apart these two were -- within 500 feet, the vehicle shall use the distribution of light or composite beams (INAUDIBLE) that the glaring rays are not projected. So, you know, perhaps this is murky, this is what the prosecutor points out as their part of the case. When know that Deven ultimately gets out of the car, he's on the ground, he is tased and in the suit you say that's what caused him to then get up when he's subsequently shot and killed. What did you mean by that?
DAVIS: Well, that is what happened. No matter what you think he did, to treat this as the felony arrest with somebody laying on their face in the snow and then to be tased in the back for simply looking back at the officer is beyond anything that is necessary or appropriate under the circumstances. And the officer even said he was trained to believe that if he had a suspect on the ground that looked back at him, that was an indication that the suspect was going to attack him and therefore he tased Deven, a totally unnecessary and excessive act. Human bodies respond differently to being tased.
BALDWIN: The final question, the officer, you know, talks about having pulled over multiple people who apparently were all flashing him that night. He says he has a new car, (INAUDIBLE) perhaps high beams were extra bright. But why do you think this -- and all those people were let go. Why do you think this went so horribly differently?
DAVIS: Because Deven challenged his authority. He told the officer, yes, you had your bright lights on. The officer says I didn't. Deven was never discourteous, but he made the mistake of questioning an officer and the development of the militarization of the police in this country is such that you can't do that. It is worth violence and arrest to question a police officer, even though that is illegal.
[08:55:13] BALDWIN: Well please, our condolences to the family. Hugh and Cynthia, thank you so much for joining us this morning on NEW DAY. I truly appreciate it.
And we'll be right back.
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CUOMO: "Good Stuff." Now often "The Good Stuff" starts with the bad stuff. And that's what one --
BALDWIN: Not just me spending the last three hours with you?
CUOMO: I know that was bad for you, but it was good for me. All right. So 12-year-old Jonathan Moran, OK, he gets beat up on the bus so badly that firefighters had to respond. Take a look.
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JONATHAN MORAN, BULLIED AT SCHOOL: He broke my glasses, split my lip and gave me a couple few bruises around my face.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: Punk kid bullies. To Jonathan's credit, he didn't fight back. The firefighters made sure Jonathan was safe, took him home personally and that is where they learned he was being bullied because his sneakers weren't cool enough.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JOSE ESPINAL, LINDEN FIREFIGHTER: I mean, he did say why getting physical with a child just because he's not wearing the latest model shoes?
DANNY DIAZ, LINDEN FIREFIGHTER: We went to go get him something nice and we didn't want him to get discouraged.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: So you know what they did? They bought him --
BALDWIN: They bought him new sneaks.
CUOMO: -- a nice new pair of sneakers and then -
BALDWIN: Linden Fire Department.
CUOMO: -- invited him to the company's barbecue.
