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New Day

Is Trump Right to Blame Bush for 9/11?; NFC East Battle: Giants Vs. Eagles; Nevada GOP Voters on Anti-Establishment Appeal. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired October 20, 2015 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:31:30] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: OK. So, Donald Trump says 9/11 would not have happened probably if he had been president at the time, and George W. Bush could have done more to prevent the terror attacks themselves.

Trump's comments have certainly ignited a debate within and without the GOP about how to look at 9/11 and the accountability issue.

Let us debate and test both sides right now.

CNN counterterrorism analyst and former CIA counterterrorism official Phil Mudd, and CNN political commentator and contributing editor for "Atlantic Media", Peter Beinart.

Professor Beinart, you take the -- what merit is there to what Trump is saying?

PETER BEINART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: The merit is this. We don't know whether Bush could have stopped 9/11. I don't think that's right question. The question was did he do everything he could have given what he knew at the time?

And the answer from his own former counterterrorism officials, people like Richard Clarke, who was the terrorism coordinator at the National Security Council is no, he didn't do everything he could have. Clarke was so despondent by his inability to get top Bush officials to focus on Bin Laden, because they were focused on Iraq and on missile defense instead, that he actually asked to be re-assigned in the summer of 2011. Bush was warned 36 times in daily briefs about the potential of a bin Laden attack. And yet this was never made a priority in his administration. They didn't even hold a cabinet level meeting on terrorism until September.

CUOMO: Now, in fairness, Phil Mudd, Trump does not make the points that Beinart eloquently laid out. He does say he was in there on the time, it's on him.

What's the other side of this?

PHIL MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: Let me give you a different perspective here. Look, the president and his advisers, Peter is right, were focused, I think, inordinately on missile defense in 2001.

I was at the White House. I don't think there was much of a strategic focus on al Qaeda. When CIA was warning, most of their warnings, though, were about attacks overseas. They did provide information, as Peter says, about the al Qaeda threat.

But the insinuation that a president of the United States, five, six, seven, eight months into his term could somehow take action to reverse the course of an al Qaeda attack when we've been 14 years in a war with 100 plus global partners and two wars and we still haven't rooted out the al Qaeda threat, I think the president should have focused more on a threat, but to take that a step further and say we could have prevented the biggest tragedy this country has ever seen on its soil I think is completely erroneous.

CUOMO: Jeb Bush in a new statement actually agrees with Trump but he says he's picking the wrong president. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think the Clinton administration made a mistake of thinking bin Laden had to be viewed from a law enforcement perspective. Similarly, President Obama's policy seemed to be focused on that as well. This is a war against western civilization. And without the United States' leadership, this will be a problem for generations to come.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: What do you make of that? First, Jeb Bush was like, you can't blame my brother for when he was president. You know, he kept us safe afterwards. You can't do that. They couldn't anticipate at the time. But now, he's willing to look back an additional president to Clinton and say he by the way should have seen it coming and should have stopped it.

BEINART: Right. It's actually exactly the opposite of what Richard Clarke, again who was counterterrorism coordinator under both Clinton and Bush says. He says that one of Clinton's accomplishments was in 1999 was a lot of fear about an attack, a millennium attack, attack 2000. Clinton forced his FBI, CIA and national security advisers to have daily meetings which resulted in the arrest of a man coming across the Canadian border to blow up LAX.

One of the things Bush could have done, Phil Mudd is absolutely right, we're not going to defeat al Qaeda and Taliban in Afghanistan.

[06:35:02] But for instance, the daily brief on August 6th, 2001, mentioned hijackers. Why didn't Bush just put the FAA on higher alert? We -- the people who got -- some of those hijackers who got in didn't have good ID. Two of them got in with knives.

The level of airport security at that point was very lax. If it had just been raised somewhat in the month or two before 9/11, there's a greater chance. Of course, we don't know for sure, but more of a chance that maybe this plot would have unraveled. That's what Richard Clarke has said.

CUOMO: Respond to two salvos there, Mudd. You were there in the CIA for 65 years.

The first one is that security at the airport was woeful and the second one is during the Clinton administration to Jeb Bush's point, you know, the word was we're not in the business of killing Osama bin Laden. That's not what we do.

Defend those two propositions.

MUDD: That's correct. That was the same policy that spilled over into the Bush administration.

There are big debates about things like, for example, before the attack, should you arm a drone? Something that's considered normal operations in places like Yemen, Somalia, Pakistan, Afghanistan. You couldn't get over that hurdle in either administration.

So, I agree that the Clinton administration approach was law enforcement. It's not like that was turned on its head when President Bush came to office. I understand that. There wasn't a tragedy that drove a change in policy.

As for airport security, look, this country was a sieve in 2000, 2001. We had take actions at borders. We set up the Department of Homeland Security. We hardened cockpit doors. We told people you have to go through a different process to get a visa, biometric passports.

You could not turn this country around the way it's been turned around in a decade plus to stop those kind of attacks, because it wasn't about people bringing box cutters on planes. It was about saying, we had a catastrophic event that's going to lead us to spend billions of dollars to secure the country. I don't think that you could have done that without the tragedy we witnessed. There was just too much work to be done. We were a sieve.

CUOMO: Bottom line: did the administration miss it or was this the eventuality of circumstance?

MUDD: Eventuality. I don't think they missed it.

CUOMO: Beinart, final word.

BEINART: What we know, Richard Clarke has said there was a possibility.

CUOMO: You lean very heavily on Richard Clarke.

(LAUGHTER)

BEINART: Well, he was the counterterrorism coordinator (ph). If you look at the people at the CIA who did counterterrorism, they were also despondent in the summer of 2001 because they couldn't get -- Tenet was very upset. He had a meeting with Condoleezza Rice. She wasn't focused on this.

Do we know that they could have stopped it? Absolutely not. Did Bush do everything he reasonably could have been expected to do? No, I don't think he did.

CUOMO: So, you are now backing Donald Trump, is that what you're saying?

BEINART: Only on this one very narrow point. Let me be clear.

CUOMO: You see the difference, Mudd? When I push Beinart, he comes at me with all these facts. When I push you, you tell me it's a dumb question and you don't like my face.

MUDD: I'm blinded by the sport jacket. I have to tell you, blue blazer, two words, brother.

(LAUGHTER)

CUOMO: Another screaming statement of ignorance from Philip Mudd.

Philip, thank you very much. Phil Mudd, Peter Beinart, appreciate it.

We're at the top of the hour. When we get all the way there, because now we're past 6:30, when we get to 7:00, guess who's here? Donald Trump. He's beginning to respond to why he makes these cases that he's making and a lot of other stuff that's in the news. He'll be here on NEW DAY.

Alisyn?

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: You're rounding up, I like that.

CUOMO: I'm anticipating.

CAMEROTA: I know you are.

Donald Trump and Ben Carson dominating the Republican field in the latest CNN poll out this morning. What do voters like so much about them? I spoke with a group of Nevada Republicans to find out why political outsiders are so in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Donald Trump has a plan and what he calls a solution and he says that he will deport 12 million undocumented workers. What do you think of that?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:42:29] MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Donald Trump and Ben Carson breaking away from the GOP field in the latest CNN/ORC poll, Trump leads Carson 27 percent to 22 percent. Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio tied for third at 8 percent. The eight-point bump for Carson is the biggest for any candidate. The biggest drop goes to Carly Fiorina who tumbled 11 point following her post-debate jump last month.

At the top of the hour, we will speak to Donald Trump about the new numbers. That will happen live.

CAMEROTA: U.N. Secretary General Ban Ki-moon visiting Israel and Palestinian territories to try to ease tensions amid that rash of stabbings. This morning, Israeli's military says a soldier was stabbed but only lightly injured near the flash point city of Hebron. The attacker was shot but it is unclear if he is injured or killed. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu now calling for restraint after a migrant mistaken for an attacker in Sunday's bus rampage died after being shot by a security guard and beaten in the chaos.

CUOMO: "Star Wars" fans, it is the best 2 1/2 minutes of your lives. The full length trailer for "The Force Awakens", unveiled during halftime of "Monday night football" was the only thing worth watching in that game. Here's your sneak peek.

("STAR WARS" TRAILER)

PEREIRA: I do. I'm (INAUDIBLE). I am, I'll admit it.

CUOMO: How into "Star Trek" are you?

CAMEROTA: Not terribly. "Star Trek", but "Star Wars," yes.

CUOMO: Did I say "Star Trek"?

PEREIRA: You're going to get hate on Twitter.

CUOMO: Do you have a different answer for "Star Wars"? I'm going to get hate on Twitter for that?

CAMEROTA: I really don't.

PEREIRA: Can I tell you a rapid oblation that happened this morning? I was telling my producer Miguel in my office, I'm OK with "Star Wars." That was good. I loved it as a kid. I don't need anymore.

Then I saw the trailer and I am --

CUOMO: What about the trailer gets you back in? Just reminds people why you like it.

PEREIRA: The whole thing, the music, the drama, the --

CUOMO: The X-wing fighter was the first toy of my entire life that I didn't want to let it go. I thought it was the coolest thing. Because I couldn't imagine how it would actually work. And now, they all look like that.

CAMEROTA: Sentimental favorite.

PEREIRA: All right. In case you missed it before and after last night's epic full-length "Star Wars" trailer, there was actually an NFL game.

[06:45:00] He says so-so.

Coy Wire has more in this morning's bleacher report.

Hey, Coy.

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Good morning, Michaela. Hello, all.

There was so much love and excitement for "The Force Awakens" trailer. And I can relate, I'm a Jedi wannabe, huge "Star Wars" geek. As a matter of fact, let's see how many "Star Wars" references we get in these highlights. Roll the tape.

Eagles hosting the Giants in the Monday night football. First quarter, both offenses playing, sloppy like Joes but Sam Bradford uses the force, touchdown pass, Riley Cooper, coop, I am your quarterback. Eli Manning and the giants, man, their offense was Jabba the Hutt ugly. Manning threw two interceptions including this one to Carroll. That's a pick six.

New York and Philly combined for seven turnovers in this one. Eagles win 27-7. Sorry, producer Paulina.

Now to the American League Championship Series. Blue Jays down two games, but Toronto fans hoping their empire strikes back against the Royals.

First inning, Kevin Pillar in centerfield takes off like the millennium falcon in overdrive. He goes bounty hunter, catching that ball before crashing into the wall. We got this, he says stay on target. Stay on target. In the third, Troy Tulowitzki with the no doubter, says bye, bye, Johnny Quetto (ph), that's out of here. Three-run shot.

Blue Jays go on to win 11-8, feeling good, feeling great. Now, Toronto cuts KC's lead to two games to one. Game four is later today at 4:00 Eastern.

Then, the Cubs trying not to get blown up by the Mets at 8:00 Eastern on TBS. Mets up two games to none in that series. Good news for New York fans, since 1969, teams that have gone down in the series, two games to none, they've gone on to advance 88 percent of the time to the World Series.

So, good news for Mets fans.

CAMEROTA: All right. Coy, thanks so much for all of that.

WIRE: You're welcome.

CAMEROTA: All right. Let's get back to politics because new polls show most of the Republican outsiders on top, Donald Trump and Ben Carson riding high. My conversation with a group of voters about the allure of the anti-establishment candidates, that's next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They know how to get things done. They know how to make things happen. They have a business sense and they're not mired with all of the political corruption.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:51:23] CAMEROTA: Now, a new edition of "Real Voters, Real Choices" for you. A panel of Nevada conservatives explains the appeal of the outsiders.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: Brenda, what do you like about Ben Carson?

BRENDA FLANK, BEN CARSON SUPPORTER: Well, the fact that he's what they would call an outsider. Ben Carson is a common sense kind of person. Ben Carson puts forth -- I think he brings that attitude that this is a great country.

DWIGHT MAZZONE, UNDECIDED REPUBLICAN VOTER: You look at Carson, at Trump and Fiorina, they bring a new breath to this thing. They are not in the system.

I am not concerned about the fact that Trump, Carson or Fiorina don't have policy. I don't think Mr. Obama had policy. I don't think Bush had policy. I know Clinton didn't have any policy.

It's not the policy. It's how they're going to manage this country and how they're going to keep us being a world power and keep us safe within our own borders.

CAMEROTA: Brenda?

FLANK: I think with Carson, Trump and Fiorina, they are at the top. People are taking a look at them as people that have not contributed to this mess that our country is in.

So, why not take a chance on someone that has not -- they know how to get things done. They know how to make things happen. They have a business sense. And they're not mired with all of the political corruption and the political back and forth and the fighting.

CAMEROTA: You're nodding?

GWEEN BARRETT, UNDECIDED REPUBLICAN VOTER: Yes, I absolutely agree. On top of that, we want strength, somebody that is very strong, very determined and will do the job. I think Carly Fiorina is absolutely magnificent. She's brilliant.

I've heard her speak a couple of times. When you listen to them in person, it is quite different from television, I think. It really, you get a feeling about them, a sense for them.

In her case, I came out of the room thinking, she's a Margaret Thatcher, prime minister of England. She's a female Ronald Reagan and she's a Joan of Arc. If we have to go to war, she has the power and strength to go and do what has to be done.

CAMEROTA: I just want to go back to Ben Carson for a second, because what you say was very interesting, Brenda, about how -- look, these aren't politicians. They don't engage in political speak. And sometimes they say in politics, things. Ben Carson has said things that this past -- basically over the past week that some people were insensitive. I just want to get your impressions about it.

MAZZONE: I'm going to tell you --

CAMEROTA: Go ahead.

MAZZONE: I totally agree with Ben Carson, whether it was impolitical, whether it was clear out of the vote or whatever, I don't think we could have somebody who believes in Sharia law be the president of the United States.

FLANK: I'm under new illusion that these professional politicians are going to do what they say. They have not in the past. It's been a big disappointment and that's why our country is where we're at. That's why Ben Carson, Donald Trump, they he's resonate with the people.

DEREK UEHARA, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: I think within the larger sense of our political climate, I think sometimes we jump on people for things. We are looking for the sound bite.

We have this type of dialogue. I don't think it's productive. I think what we want to do is look at the total person. That will take time. That's why we're going through this process.

BARRETT: I see all that Donald Trump entering the race has been the greatest help to the Republican Party whether you're for him or against him. You have to agree that he has brought new excitement to this --

MAZZONE: He's a show man. It's not just the Republicans.

[06:55:02] Last week at the Hispanics in politics meeting, Marty O'Malley spoke. Guess who Marty O'Malley spoke about? Donald Trump.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald Trump.

CAMEROTA: Let's talk about issues that really speak to all of you. Jesus, I know immigration is a big issue. Your parents are from Mexico. What do you think about the immigration debate that's been going on in this country?

JESUS MARQUEZ, JEB BUSH SUPPORTER: Immigration does play a big role in the Latino community. And poll after poll has said that the Latinos care more for the economy and jobs. I will support a president or candidate that will focus on the economy, jobs, but also they will have a plan for a solution to a broken immigration system.

CAMEROTA: Well, I mean, Donald Trump has a plan. What he calls a solution. He says that he will deport 12 million undocumented workers. What do you think of that?

MARQUEZ: It is outrageous. That's impossible. That's not feasible and it's not something that any big business guy like he is will even dare to do because it's going to cost a lot of money. He hasn't said how much it's beginning to cost? Where is the money going to come? Where is the plan to do that?

CAMEROTA: Brenda, what's biggest issue for you?

FLANK: The sovereignty of my country. We don't know who's coming in, who's going out. That is what's important to me. What are we going to do about our borders?

Donald Trump is talking about building a wall. I don't have a problem with building a wall. There's no nation on the planet other than America that leaves its borders wide open and do nothing to secure the people of its country.

BRADY BOWER, RAND PAUL SUPPORTER: I don't find our sovereignty being threatened by immigrants. I mean, Rand Paul makes a good point when he says you can't have open borders in a welfare state.

That's absolutely true. If we didn't have the gigantic welfare state we have now, I really wouldn't care who comes here. I don't want people coming here to, you know, take advantage of the American taxpayer.

But I mean, if you're here to do honest hard work, honestly, work that a lot of times American citizens won't do, then I don't really see any problem with that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: I mean, there you have it. They're looking for something different, different than what they've been promised before which they think has fallen flat.

PEREIRA: But it is interesting, too, that there is difference between each of them. They all have their own idea about what is the problem, what needs to be fixed. You can even hear it between the last two responses. I mean, there's -- that's just a quick brush on how the American public feels.

CUOMO: They all agree about who's to blame, though.

PEREIRA: That's true.

CUOMO: And the Republicans are the out party right now. They have a higher bar because they should win. If you look at history, you know, it is time for the cycle to change their way.

PEREIRA: Pendulum usually swings.

CUOMO: This idea that this is a moment in time and it's just going to fade, that argument is getting harder to make I think on the GOP side.

CAMEROTA: They are very animated about it, energized about it. It's always interesting to talk to them.

PEREIRA: The curious thing will be to see how the voter turnout numbers will reflect that sentiment, right?

CAMEROTA: Oh, yes. I predict having spoken to them, it will be a galvanizing factor.

CUOMO: It can go either way. When people don't like the system, they usually don't come out. We'll see.

That's a big story for you this morning. But there's a lot of news. And we have Donald Trump coming up on NEW DAY. So, let's get right to it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: Trump's lead over Carson is now just outside the margin of error.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Your brother's administration gave us Barack Obama.

The World Trade Center came down during his time.

We are going to make America great again.

CAMEROTA: Donald Trump joins us live.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hillary Clinton will be testifying for about eight hours we're told.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody thought Hillary Clinton was unbeatable, right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think the committee has been thoroughly discredited.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't know that I have very much to add.

CONAN O'BRIEN, COMEDIAN: Donald Trump is now saying that his immigration policies would have prevented 9/11.

Trump is also claiming his hair would have kept the Titanic afloat.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota and Michaela Pereira.

CAMEROTA: Good morning, everyone. Welcome back to your NEW DAY.

Donald Trump and Ben Carson dominating the GOP field in a new CNN poll. The Republican outsiders get the support of nearly half the Republicans surveyed. Trump leads Carson 27 percent to 22 percent. The next candidates are 14 points back.

We will speak with Donald Trump, live about these numbers in a moment.

CUOMO: The poll also shows a clear eight-point surge for Carson, despite some of his more controversial comments. What does it say about the base that he's galvanizing?

And then, Carly Fiorina, remember the pomp, remember the debate? She's fallen off 11 points and fallen off your TV screens. Where has she been?

Overall, three quarters of Republicans say they are satisfied with the field of candidates. Democrats at 70 percent. What does that tell you?

This is no blip in time. This is true intentionality going on in the GOP. So --

CAMEROTA: Let's talk about all of this now.