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Donald Trump Makes Controversial Claim about President and Gun Laws; Vice President Biden Still Possibly Contemplating Presidential Bid; Interview with David Axelrod; Private Emails of CIA, Homeland Security Chiefs Hacked; Interview with Representative Lynn Westmoreland of Georgia. Aired -8:30a ET

Aired October 20, 2015 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: -- dominating. That is the only word for it. That's what they're doing to the pack. Combined, they have support from nearly half of the Republican voters, Trump leading 27-22. Their closest competition is literally some 14 points back.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: You are speaking to the mother ship? It's very interesting. While Carson surges -- excuse me.

CUOMO: That is whether what you get.

CAMEROTA: I do. Eight points from last month. Carly Fiorina heading in the opposite direction. She has fallen 11 points from her post-debate high. She is now at just four percent.

CUOMO: You would rather die than give me this read.

CAMEROTA: That's right. Three quarters of Republican voters say they are satisfied overall with the field. That is compared to 70 percent of Democratic voters. I got through it.

CUOMO: Strong.

CAMEROTA: Thank you. CNN's senior -- oh, I'm taking your read.

CUOMO: Let's bring in CNN reporter Sara Murray joins us now live from South Carolina with a look at more of the policy. You should have seen Camerota struggling to get through that read.

SARA MURRAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I get it. Maybe it is Donald Trump's star power. Maybe it's the sheer number of options in the Republican field, but our pole shows Republican voters are so much more excited about voting for president than Democrats are. And 68 percent of Republicans say they are very enthusiastic about turning out to vote compared to 58 percent for Democrats.

And the interesting thing about Republican, that number is trending up. In September, 65 percent said they were very excited. Early September that was 59 percent, clearly an upward trajectory there.

Let's take a look now at the gender gap. There was a lot of talk about whether Trump was hurting himself with women with some of his inflammatory comments. Our numbers really don't bear that out. It shows Trump and Carson tied, leading with the women's voters, 23 percent of women support Carson, 23 percent support Trump. And Trump actually has an edge over Carson when you look at men -- 31 percent of men said they were backing Donald Trump, 23 percent said they were backing Carson.

Donald Trump was on the stump here in South Carolina last night. He offered up a little bit of red meat to his conservative votes. Take a look at what he had to say about guns.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So big Second Amendment. We're all heavy on the Second Amendment.

(APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: You know the president's thinking about signing an executive order where he wants to take your guns away. You hear it this way. This is the new. Not going to happen. That won't happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MURRAY: Now our White House reporter Jim Acosta tells me this is pretty much a pants on fire comment from Donald Trump. The White House is not trying to take guns away in every American. Of course, we have the Second Amendment in the constitution. But they are looking at the possible actions when it comes to mass sales of firearms. Back to you guys.

CAMEROTA: Yes, we did ask Donald Trump about that, and he responded. We also asked him about his new poll numbers which he seems to be enjoying. He was on NEW DAY last hour. I also asked him if he could imagine his opponent, Ben Carson becoming his running mate. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Can you imagine a Trump/Carson ticket?

TRUMP: Well I like him. He likes me. I mean, stranger things have happened, that I can tell you. But it is too early to think about that. It certainly is interesting. So many people have suggested it because we seem to be doing awfully well.

CAMEROTA: OK, let's talk last night. You were in South Carolina. You had a passionate crowd there, and you said something to them there about guns. You said you know the president is thinking about signing an executive order where he wants to take away your guns. You hear about this? Now Mr. Trump the president has not signed an executive order.

TRUMP: I've heard he wants to. And I heard on your network somebody said that was what he's thinking about. I didn't he's signing it. I think that would be a tough one to sign, actually. CAMEROTA: It's impossible, in fact.

TRUMP: I know it would be impossible. But nevertheless he was thinking about it, and I've heard it from numerous networks and I read it in the papers. My source is the papers. They are pretty good sources.

CAMEROTA: The president constitutionally cannot sign an executive order to take away guns. So what are you doing?

TRUMP: Well he can't sign an executive order on immigration either and he did.

CAMEROTA: But when you are telling your crowd last night he's coming after you and your guns and you know that not to be true.

TRUMP: He has been in different forms. In my opinion he's against the Second Amendment, which is ridiculous. But he has certainly not been pro Second Amendment. You could say that at a minimum.

Now, I've heard from numerous sources and I've heard from the media and I've seen in the media, I've seen in the papers, and I think if you look back maybe a week you will see it on your own network people were saying he is thinking about doing it. I didn't say he was doing it. I said how is he going to do that. You have the Second Amendment? That's big league. But certainly I think he is currently thinking about doing it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: So there you go. That is his response, what Sarah Murray was calling red meat serving it up for the South Carolina audience who had come to see him in the south.

[08:05:04] CUOMO: And Jim Acosta reports he goes to the White House, they say no, there's nothing like that on the table. However, it is out there in the air, and one of the things Donald Trump has done very effectively to this point is harness what people are concerned about.

CAMEROTA: Their fears.

CUOMO: Is it really going to happen? Is it responsible assertion? That is when he backs away from your question and says, look, it is out there in the papers. Don't blame me for what you report. And it's working well for him.

CAMEROTA: So what's also interesting is that public opinion polls, not for the primary, not just among his supporters, but for the country people do want universal background checks overwhelmingly. People actually do want stricter laws rather than more lenient. So everything he is doing is working beautifully right now.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Right how does it play going forward? CUOMO: "Take our guns" resonates.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely. Of course.

CUOMO: Anything that even sniffs of that is going to work with a very broad swath.

PEREIRA: All right, let's carry on here. The vice president, Joe Biden, is expected to announce whether he is running for president any time now. He huddled with his top advisors last night. Let's go live to the White House and bring in Jim Acosta on the Biden watch. Let's hear your gig today, Biden watch continues.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: But I appreciate the shout outs on the other story. Thank you very much for that. I'm never going to turn that down.

But yes, Michaela, Democratic sources tell me Vice President Joe Biden is still sounding very serious about a run for the White House. He has been reaching out to loyalists to talk strategy. But even his friends inside the Democratic Party are not sure how long this can drag out. Last night he did meet with his political team and his team is talking to operatives about joining a potential campaign. And it seems like every day Biden sends out another teaser about his intentions. Consider these comments he made at a climate conference at the White House yesterday where he seemed to be talking about Hillary Clinton. Here is what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, (D) VICE PRESIDENT: Darrell Issa not a Republican friend of mine. He's a friend. I don't consider Republicans enemies. They are friends.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Now that seemed to be a reference to what Hillary Clinton said at the debate last week in Las Vegas where she talked about Republicans being her enemies. That comment from the vice president really coming close to a dig at Hillary Clinton.

Now moving on, we should point out a Pennsylvania Congressman is so confident that Biden will run he tweeted about it. Democratic Congressman Brendan Boyle, he tweeted he has a source telling him Biden will run. I talked to Boyle yesterday. He stands by the tweet, saying the information came from a source close to Biden. The Congressman added that if Biden did not run at this point it would be because he's pulling back from that decision that's already made.

And following up on our CNN/ORC poll yesterday that showed less than half of Democrats want Joe Biden on the run, there is another poll this morning, the NBC, "Wall Street Journal" poll. Look at this, only 30 percent of Democrats want Joe Biden to run, 38 percent say he should not run. Those are tough numbers, and it is an indication as we saw on our CNN-ORC poll that Democrats may be losing patience, guys, and that Joe Biden has to make a decision and a decision soon. Back to you.

CUOMO: Valid point. The question is, how long? What is that decision going to be? We look to you, Jim, for answers on that.

ACOSTA: Thanks.

CUOMO: Let's bring in David Axelrod now and get some perspective on the Biden situation and the Trump situation, senior political commentator, former senior adviser to President Obama, Mr. Axelrod himself. It's very good to have you with us Ax. So on the Biden question --

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good to be here.

CUOMO: -- you and I were both skeptical to say the at least about whether or not the vice president would enter the race. Does the new scuttlebutt that we're hearing add to your curiosity?

AXELROD: Well, my curiosity? Maybe. But the new scuttlebutt is a little bit like the old scuttlebutt. And until something happens I think it is just scuttlebutt. Chris, you and I both remember when another prominent Democrat was highly touted and it ran up to the last minute and a plane sat on the runway and never took off for New Hampshire.

CUOMO: Ted Kennedy.

(LAUGHTER)

CUOMO: My father he's talking about.

AXELROD: This is a similar situation. I think that he is generally conflicted. There is warring parts of him. Part of him really wants to do it. Part of him I think is conflicted I think because of the pressures on his family and the emotional toll of such a race. I don't think he's resolved this in his head. And I think he's going play it out as long as he possibly can.

CAMEROTA: And yet there was a whole flurry of activity yesterday with different people tweeting, he's close to a decision. He's going to be getting in. There was even a congressman from Pennsylvania who tweeted my sources say he's getting in. It seems as though it's reaching a fever pitch and maybe in the next 48 hours we will know something.

AXELROD: He could get in in the next 48 hours. You know, anything could happen. But I think if you were trying to create time and space for yourself and keep people from committing to another candidate you would give them encouragement to think that a positive decision is coming, and that is what operatives would do.

[08:10:12] That is different than what a candidate might do. I honestly don't know. And I don't think anybody really knows what he's going to do. I'm not sure Joe Biden knows what he is going to do. But we're in that season where everything is hyper-torqued, every conversation gets maximum coverage. And in this situation I'm not sure any of it means that much.

CUOMO: Speak to the realities that we're really not addressing that much when it comes to Joe Biden. We exist entirely in the vice president's head. And that is fair analogy to my father's situation. My father was all about whether or not he felt right for the job. That was it. But there is another layer of this that we're not talking about. If he said today I'm getting, how huge a task does his team have before them to get on the ballots in these big states, to get the machinery up, to get the money to get that machinery up, and to make any kind of inroads with all the people who have already committed to Hillary Clinton?

AXELROD: Well, as Mr. Trump would say it's huge. It would be a huge task, because you are looking -- in the summer there was this hue and cry for him to get in and save the party from a weak front runner. She no longer looks like a weak front runner. She's holding consistently 45 to 50 percent of the vote in polls. The debate obviously was very, very important for her. Bernie Sanders is doing well and holding a solid 30 percent of the vote in second place as people are very committed. That's 75 percent of the vote. So just the politics is daunting.

And then there are the organizational challenges. And his organizational challenges are actually a little bit more complicated because as the sitting vice president there are fixed costs no other candidate has. You have to compensate the government for Air Force II and some of the other expenses associated with a vice president traveling. It costs President Obama an extra $25 million because he was the sitting president and all of these costs had to be covered by the campaign.

So there are all kind of extra challenges here if were to get in. And I don't know if those are this things weighing on his mind. I think he really thinks he has something to offer here. And he does have something to offer. But the task is daunting.

CAMEROTA: You brought up Donald trump. So let's go there.

CUOMO: It's like saying the word "Beetlejuice."

(LAUGHTER)

CAMEROTA: We just sat down with him. We just had an interview with him. And once again he refuses to stick to the Republican narrative that George Bush kept the country safe after 9/11 or during his term. Once again Donald trump is sort of drawing outside the lines and saying no, he didn't, 9/11 happened on his watch. And oh, by the way, going into Iraq has engendered ISIS. And that is what we're dealing with today. What do you think of this conversation that he has started?

AXELROD: First of all, I heard the interview. I was struck by his tone. The last time I was on your show and he was on your show he was questioning whether Ben Carson was actually a really competent doctor, you know, a world class neurosurgeon. He was talking about Carly Fiorina's face. And now, you know, he loves everybody. There is nothing like a series of good polls to make someone --

(LAUGHTER)

AXELROD: He thought he was going to be the nominee. Now he's trying to bring the whole -- the whole family together. And I think even as he stuck by his comments, because as you know he doesn't back off of his comments, I think that he was trying to find room to acknowledge that those were the facts but not be too offensive about it.

I actually think he -- you know, even though George W. Bush is popular with the Republicans, I think there is a profitable exchange for Donald Trump, because anything that causes Jeb Bush to go backwards instead of forwards and identify himself as the brother of George W. Bush rather than as his own person. Remember his poster says "Jeb." It doesn't say "Jeb Bush." And that is for a reason. I think Trump knew that.

You know he may not be a very well versed in policy and he was absolutely wrong about the president and the executive order as you pointed out. But he is -- he has a postdoctoral degree in finding people's vulnerabilities and poking at them. And I think inveigled Bush into an exchange that will benefit Trump and hurt Bush.

CUOMO: Inveigled, that is a Camerota-esque word.

CAMEROTA: I'm going to write that down.

CUOMO: That's a good one right there.

(LAUGHTER)

CAMEROTA: I will use that in the next hour.

CUOMO: That was a big word. The biggest word I use is "mayonnaise."

(LAUGHTER)

[08:15:02] CAMEROTA: David Axelrod, thanks to much. It's great to talk to you.

Let's get over to Michaela.

AXELROD: It's good to be with you guys.

CAMEROTA: Thanks so much.

PEREIRA: All right. Just how were hackers able to access the private e-mail of two top U.S. intelligence officials?

The FBI and Secret Service are investigating the breach that exposed personal information link to CIA Director John Brennan and Homeland Security Chief Jeh Johnson. Officials right now trying to determine whether any sensitive data was compromised.

CNN justice correspondent Evan Perez live in Washington with all the details.

What do we know?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER: Hey, Michaela.

This breach was really more about trickery than computer hacking skills. An alleged hacker tells CNN that he's part of a group that tricks service providers into providing access that ultimately got him into the private accounts of CIA Director John Brennan and Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson.

Now, he says they did this to protest U.S. foreign policy on Israel and Palestinians. In recent days, the alleged hacker taunted government officials on Twitter. Yesterday, he spoke to Laurie Segall about the kind of documents they obtained.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

C-W-A HACKER GROUP: Social Security numbers, plans, you know, talking about Iraq and Syria. There was a lot I guess private really. He's pretty stupid, really.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

PEREZ: And one document published by the hackers stolen from Brennan's AOL e-mail account appears to be a list of members of the intelligence community with security clearances. And another document stolen is the government form that Brennan filled out in order to get his high level security clearance.

Now, Brennan would have provided this information while he was still a private citizen, before he took a job in the Obama administration. We should note that after the alleged hacker chatted with CNN, Alisyn, Twitter suspended the account that he was using.

CAMEROTA: OK, thank you for that update, Evan.

Meanwhile, new accusations to tell you about against "Washington Post" reporter Jason Rezaian. These are leveled by a top Iranian lawmaker. Rezaian, you'll remember, was convicted of espionage in an Iranian court earlier this month. The Iranians claim he was feeding information about their nuclear program to the State Department. Now, a top parliament member in Iran is accusing Rezaian of sedition and collaborating with Iran's enemies. "The Washington Post" call all of this ridiculous.

CUOMO: Historic reunions some 60 years in the making as South Koreans travel to the North to reunite with their loved ones separated by war. These meetings are being held at a resort near the border. Many of the people reunited are in their 80s or 90s. Now, tensions deescalated between the Koreans in the August following this nasty standoff over a border explosion that injured South Korean soldiers.

PEREIRA: Some beautiful moments there.

From beautiful to some fun. Quite a photo bomber -- actually, what do you call it when somebody interrupt yours Vine. Watch as the first lady interrupts the Vine selfie. She's excited to join the group of young Internet celebrities when they're visiting the White House yesterday. She was doing all of this as part of the launch for her campaign called "Better Make Room" aimed at encouraging teens to pursue higher education.

CAMEROTA: Photobombed a Vine?

CUOMO: She inveigled their Vine.

PEREIRA: She inveigled their Vine.

CUOMO: I don't know if that works but I like the word.

CAMEROTA: Too much.

CUOMO: All right. So there is absolutely no evidence against Hillary Clinton. That is what the Democrats are saying, going all out to protect the leader in their polls days before she testifies on Benghazi. What do Republicans, specifically a member of the Benghazi committee have to say about that?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:22:13] CUOMO: All right. We have two big political headlines for you. First, we hear that there's a meeting tonight for the GOP that Paul Ryan may or may not say he wants to be leader. We're going to talk about that.

And you see this? This is what the Democrats say tell the truth about what's going on with Benghazi and this report is a whole lot of nothing. Meaning, there's no proof Hillary Clinton should be held accountable for anything.

Let's talk to Representative Lynn Westmoreland, a Republican from Georgia and a member of the Select Committee on Benghazi. I guarantee you he doesn't agree with this report. And he joins us right now.

Congressman, thank you for being on NEW DAY.

First, is it true there is a big meeting tonight at 7:00 for members of the GOP and Ryan may get there and either throw his hat in or say I don't want to be leader?

REP. LYNN WESTMORELAND (R), GEORGIA: I don't know if that is the purpose of the meeting or not. They said it is to go over the debt ceiling, Ex-Im and continual funding of the government.

So -- but we don't know what it's about. That's what they told us. So we're going to go at 7:00 and try to pay attention.

CUOMO: If Ryan throws his hat in the ring, are you with him?

WESTMORELAND: Yes, I am.

CUOMO: Why?

WESTMORELAND: Well, I mean, we've got to do something to bring everybody together. And I think that most factions of the party agree that Paul Ryan would be somebody that they would have confident in. And that is what we need right now.

So, Paul may be the guy. And I'm certainly going to support him because of the majority of the conference supports him. And I think that is the one thing about being a member of anything is that, you know, once the majority goes with something, if you are going to be part of the team then that is what you go.

CUOMO: It's important also to note that the reason Paul Ryan has weighing this is a really excellent reason. He's thinking about the toll on his family and how much he'll be able to see his kids, because that's so important to him. He's not just playing politics with it. I think that's worthy of note also.

WESTMORELAND: Sure.

CUOMO: All right. So, we'll find out what happens tonight at the meeting. Now, let's talk about this big fat report in my hand just days before Hillary Clinton comes before your committee.

Basically for all pages in it, I don't know even how many. There are hundreds of pages in, 125 pages without the appendices. Basically, it makes one point. Of these 31 or so interviews that they reviewed, the Democrats what happened before the select committee, nobody has anything like a smoking gun that says Hillary Clinton was doing anything nefarious with respect to what happened in Benghazi, any kind of cover up with Benghazi.

What do you say?

WESTMORELAND: Well, Chris, it is interesting that this isn't about Hillary Clinton. I mean, it is unfortunate that at the time our mission was attacked and four Americans died trying to defend our country and represent our country in a foreign land, she -- it was a mission facility, which is oversaw by the State Department.

And so, it is -- I mean, it is not our fault that she was secretary of state. And if you go back and look, I mean, she is in charge of these diplomatic security facilities.

[08:25:05] So, I mean, this isn't about Hillary. She just happened to be there as secretary of state when this tragedy occurred. If John Kerry had been there, we'd be doing John Kerry. If Colin Powell, we would have been looking at Colin Powell.

So, this is because of the position she hailed. And for the Democrats to say she didn't have anything to do with it, I think that's just a little farfetched.

CUOMO: Well, what they say is she didn't do anything wrong or nefarious with respect to it.

But let me ask you about your assertion that it's not about Hillary. I haven't heard that from anybody. I mean, everybody who has something to do with the committee says it is about her. It is about why it is about her.

Why are you stepping away from that premise that this is about Hillary?

WESTMORELAND: I'm not stepping away from it. It's never been about Hillary. It's always been finding the facts and following the facts to the truth. And that's what Chairman Gowdy and our committee has constantly tried to do. We are trying to gather the facts.

And, unfortunately, the State Department has stone walled every request we've made for information is just like pulling teeth to get this information out. And now, you know, unfortunately it has gone on for such period of time because, you know, you only get a dribble of information, a dribble of information.

And if you have done any type of investigative work you know that one key bit of information can lead you to something else. And that is all we're trying to do. We're trying to find the facts to get to the truth.

CUOMO: What do you -- what do you believe still warrants curiosity at this point after all of the hearings, the several committee, all of the interviews that have been conducted? You know, I mean, that's the speculation, right? This has gone longer than Watergate. It's cost so much money. Why?

WESTMORELAND: Well, let me ask you this.

CUOMO: Yes, sir.

WESTMORELAND: If you were investigating something, wouldn't you want to know the e-mails of the guy that was there that was murdered and what he had asked for as far as help from the people he worked for? We've just now gotten those e-mails. We've now just gotten them.

CUOMO: What do they say?

WESTMORELAND: Nobody else had requested them. I haven't had a chance to read them. We didn't them get a day before yesterday.

But the point is, Chris, is that even though all these different committees have had hearing on it, they haven't had all of the information. And that's the one thing Chairman Gowdy has insisted on is that we have got to have all of the information.

Do you think we care about Ms. Clinton's yoga lesson's or Chelsea's wedding? Absolutely not. But if it pertains to Benghazi or Libya, we want to see it.

CUOMO: But there had been several internal reviews already that did look at the ambassador's emails and did not find any reason to pursue any type of action against those --

WESTMORELAND: What internal review?

CUOMO: The State Department looked at it themselves. They had their inspector general --

WESTMORELAND: The State Department looked at it. I mean, you know, that is kind of like the rooster in the hen house or whatever. I mean, that's kind of crazy.

CUOMO: That is an easy cynical assumption to make, but you want to undermine the confidence in our institution, do you? I mean, you don't trust the State Department to conduct its own business?

WESTMORELAND: Well, what I'm trying to tell you is when you got an agency that is investigating itself, that just doesn't sound right. And I don't think the American people have any confidence in an agency investigating themself.

CUOMO: You always want transparency. But at the same time as you know, every government agency, including Congress and both houses has the duty and responsibility to review itself and its actions, right? When we want to find out about ethical violations of congressmen, we always have to wait for you to do your own review of the situations. That is how it happens.

WESTMORELAND: Well, I mean, there is an outside ethics commission too that we have. So, it's not all internal, Chris. So --

CUOMO: I understand that but I'm just saying they have been looked at is my point.

WESTMORELAND: The point is yes it's been looked at by the people that were supposed to be providing it. We're just asking for a fair shake and let us get the information and determine whether it leads us. I mean, that's what we're about. This committee is about finding out the truth of what went on before this attack, during this attack and after this attack. That's it.

And there's different players involved, and, you know, if they are involved, that is unfortunate for them.

CUOMO: Representative Westmoreland, thank you for your perspective. We look forward to the testimony and I love to talk to you after it.

WESTMORELAND: Thank you, Chris.

CUOMO: All right. Take care.

Michaela?

PEREIRA: All right. Lamar Odom is now back in Los Angeles for rehab after his near death experience. How does he get himself back on his feet? Dr. Drew Pinsky is going to join us and we'll talked to him about Lamar Odom's road to recovery, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)