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CNN Poll: 74% Disapprove of GOP Leadership in Congress; Biden Draws Sharp Contrast with Clinton; What is Hillary Clinton's Benghazi Hearing Game Plan?; Syrian President Meets with Putin in Moscow. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired October 21, 2015 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

REP. PAUL RYAN (R), WISCONSIN: My greatest worry is the consequence of not stepping up.

[05:58:46] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Congressman Paul Ryan willing to serve as speaker of the House.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: He says, "It is my way or go have fun imploding on your own."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He'll get enough votes. It will be a sign of unity.

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), OUTGOING SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: I expect to be out of there by the end of this month.

JOE BIDEN (D), VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The other team is not the enemy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Even though he's not yet a candidate, he's now getting candidate-level scrutiny from the press.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's trying to build this Obama coalition if he decides to run.

BIDEN: The best decision of my political career was to join the president.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: New guidelines from mammograms. This is very confusing and can be very frustrating for patients.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How could less screening actually help women?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota and Michaela Pereira.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Wednesday, October 21, 6 a.m. in the east, and there has been a huge potential boost for the GOP. Congressman Paul Ryan saying he is willing to run for speaker of

the House, but there's a "but." All factions of his party must unite behind him by Friday. Now, despite all the concern about losing power, disarray within the party, unity seems unlikely at this point.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: And no matter who takes over as speaker, Americans are not holding their breath. There's a new CNN/ORC poll. It is out just this hour. And it shows support for Republicans in Congress now at 74 percent disapproval. Is Paul Ryan the guy to turn it around?

Let's begin our coverage with CNN senior political reporter, Manu Raju. Manu, what's the latest?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn.

Paul Ryan had no ambition to become House speaker but agreed to put his hat in the ring to avoid further turmoil in his party. But it's not done yet.

Ryan wants to be a unifying candidate. So the question now is this: Will a group of roughly 40 conservatives in the House Freedom Caucus, who helped drive out Speaker John Boehner and torpedo Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy's bid do the same to Paul Ryan?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RYAN: I have left this decision in their hands.

RAJU (voice-over): The ultimatum is set this morning by Wisconsin Congressman Paul Ryan.

RYAN: This is not a job I've ever wanted.

RAJU: After days of hand-wringing by House Republicans, essentially backing him into a corner...

RYAN: I think our country is in desperate need of leadership.

RAJU: ... the 45-year-old former vice presidential nominee is stepping up, saying he's willing to replace House Speaker John Boehner. But not so fast. Ryan says if, and only if, the three largest coalitions in the GOP House back his candidacy and agree to the following conditions by Friday. Ryan demanding that, first, the Republican Party goes from, quote, an opposition party to being a proposition party.

RYAN: We think the nation is on the wrong path. We have a duty to show the right one. Our next speaker has to be a visionary one.

RAJU: Second, Ryan appealing to the House Freedom Caucus, requesting an update to House rules, making it harder to overthrow a sitting speaker.

DANA LOESCH, "THE BLAZE": You have the Freedom Caucus. And where you have the grass roots, they're concerned about Paul Ryan's past.

BOEHNER: I think Paul would be a great speaker. I mean, he's got the skills to do the job.

RAJU: Still, time is running out as Boehner makes it clear he wants out soon.

BOEHNER: I expect to be out of there by the ended of this month.

RAJU: Well aware of the 100-hour workweek, Boehner says he frequently clocks in as speaker, Ryan's last condition concerns his wife and three children.

RYAN: I cannot and I will not give up my family time.

RAJU: A family he does not want to let down.

RYAN: My greatest worry is the consequence of not stepping up. Of someday having my own kids ask me, "When the stakes were so high, why didn't you do all you could do?"

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RAJU: Now it appears that Ryan does have deep support in two other factions in the House, the moderate Tuesday Group and another conservative caucus, the Republican Study Committee.

But the Freedom Caucus backs another candidate who has been running for speaker, Daniel Webster of Florida, who told me yesterday he has no intention of dropping out of the race.

And looming over all of this are the big fiscal issues Congress must address this fall, including to avoid a default of the U.S. debt by early November -- Chris and Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Manu, thanks so much for all of that background. So here to discuss it with us are "TIME" political reporter Zeke Miller and senior politics editor for "The Daily Beast," Jackie Kucinich. Thanks so much, guys, for being here.

So last night, John Boehner was on FOX with Bret Baier. And Bret Baier asked John Boehner, why would anybody want this job, you know, basically implying like it's thankless. And John Boehner's response was, "Well, somebody has to do it," which is not a ringing endorsement, Jackie. So what's in it for Paul Ryan? Why would he take it?

JACKIE KUCINICH, SENIOR POLITICS EDITOR, "THE DAILY BEAST": Paul Ryan wants to do this to save the party from itself, essentially. He's never run for a leadership post. He's the chairman of ways and means, which is the job he always wanted. So this would really be a favor, essentially, to the Republican Party, which is why he's saying, "You have to come to me."

And he's not necessarily going to meet the Freedom Caucus halfway. It's kind of his way or the highway. And they can choose that or they can choose utter disarray, because if not Paul Ryan, there are, you know, a host of other candidates. Maybe, I mean, I can't even keep track anymore how many other people are running if Paul Ryan does not decide to do this.

CUOMO: Right, but Jack, you know -- and Zeke -- you know, this is politics. Politics is about optics to get Paul Ryan in that position would be a coup for them. And let's not forget, yes, it's an ugly business down there, but being the speaker of the House is a big job, Zeke.

What would it mean if Ryan got in there in terms of how pivotal he would be to whatever happens with whomever wins for president?

ZEKE MILLER, POLITICAL REPORTER, "TIME": Well, certainly, Democrats see him as somebody they can work -- they can work together with, the president back in 2011 was even pointing out Paul Ryan as his negotiating partner, as the potential negotiating partner on some sort of grand bargain of fiscal deals that never really materialized, because he started negotiating with John Boehner and then-Majority Leader Eric Cantor.

But you know, we heard from Congressman Ryan last night, maybe soon to be Speaker Ryan if everything works out within his conference, that he wants to turn the GOP into the proposition party. He wants to start offering affirmative legislation instead of just trying to repeal Obamacare; actually offer that replacement that Republicans have been promising...

CUOMO: Not opposition, proposition. Who has numbers like this guy on either side of the party?

[06:05:00] CAMEROTA: Let's look at it. So let's pull up Paul Ryan's favorability. This is just out four minutes ago. He has a...

CUOMO: Sixty-two.

CAMEROTA: ... 62 percent among Republicans. I believe they're Republicans only. Sixty-two percent favorable; 14 percent unfavorable. But Jackie, what are the chances that these warring factions, these three different factions of Republicans, as Manu Raju just laid out, will come together to support Paul Ryan?

KUCINICH: That's the open question. The real question, honestly, are the 40 members of the Freedom Caucus, who have gotten themselves a little fiefdom. They have some power right now. And they would be relinquishing that to Paul Ryan. They want to weaken the speakership. They want the power to be more evenly distributed around -- around the party itself so they have more power. So it really -- it will be convincing them that this is a good thing in order to make this work for Paul Ryan.

CUOMO: But Zeke, how much do they have to do that? If he were to come in with them opposed, they've been benefiting from a vacuum in terms of, you know, getting what Jackie rightly calls their fiefdom.

So if he comes in and there is no vacuum, you now have a real No. 1. You've got -- put up P-6 there, the GOP Dems Party favorability. They're at 37 percent, Republicans. They need to come together. It's easier to ostracize one group than it is fail to unify because of that group. Right?

MILLER: Yes, certainly. If the Republicans sort of pass up this opportunity to put Paul Ryan in that place, what they're looking at for the next two, three months, maybe a year, a cycle of speakers, potentially, certainly more chaos and drama on Capitol Hill. And that's going to start having impact on the presidential race. You're going to start seeing these candidates -- you know, you're just emboldening those outsiders who have been dominating the race, whether it be Donald Trump and Ben Carson.

CAMEROTA: You know, one of the things, Jackie, that was interesting, showing that Paul Ryan is sort of a modern family man, is that he's also insisting one of his, you know, conditions is that he needs a better work/life balance than what John Boehner had.

And John Boehner, I mean, opened a vein for this job, basically. Isn't that interesting to hear, you know, sort of a prominent man demanding that?

KUCINICH: It really is. But this has been a Paul Ryan thing for as long as I've covered Paul Ryan. He's been very into his kids, very into being home. He goes home every single weekend.

CUOMO: Sleeps in his office.

CAMEROTA: I know that feeling.

KUCINICH: Well, right. And so when he was vice president, you saw the family traveling with him a lot -- when he was running for vice president. Excuse me. So that -- this is very him. And you can see, I mean, that's going to be nonnegotiable for him.

CUOMO: So look, I think it's a window into who he is also. Right, Zeke? I mean, you know, to echo Jackie's point, these guys are usually nakedly ambitious. And I'm sure Paul Ryan has his own. But for him to come out and say, "Listen, there's balance here." Just that message alone is going to speak well to the observers there, in terms of sanity being injected into the political realities.

MILLER: Absolutely, what Paul Ryan did last night was sort of the ultimate power play. "I'm not doing this because I want to do this. I'd rather be spending more time at home with my family. But you all want me to do this, and if you want me to do this, you're going to have to change for me to take this job." I mean, it's the typical Washington power play that only really comes from being their last and only hope. And that's where he's at.

CUOMO: I think -- I think it's the reason he's got that 62 percent favorable. Because let me tell you, having grown up in politics, you know, with a big shot as a dad, the family loses. The family feels it.

CAMEROTA: Of course. CUOMO: And for him to recognize that, I think it's a reason that

he's this favorable.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely. OK. So you injected sanity into this conversation for some reason. Let's talk about Donald Trump. He was -- we interviewed...

CUOMO: That's going to cost.

CAMEROTA: We interviewed him yesterday on NEW DAY. and he went further than he had before in saying that George W. Bush basically knew that 9/11 was going to happen or should have known.

CUOMO: Should have known.

CAMEROTA: Because, he said, just so that I can be clear, he said they knew. They knew that there was an attack coming. The CIA director knew in advance...

CUOMO: George Tenet.

CAMEROTA: ... there would be an attack, and he said so to the president and everybody else that would listen. Jeb Bush obviously has been feuding with Donald Trump about this.

So let me read to you what Jeb Bush just put out, a new op-ed, and he -- for "The National Journal." And he says, "Let's be clear. Donald Trump simply doesn't know what he's talking about, and his bluster overcompensates for a shocking lack of knowledge on the complex national security challenges that will confront the next president of the United States."

Jackie, what do you think of this feud?

KUCINICH: You know, when Jeb Bush is responding to Donald Trump, he's kind of losing. Donald Trump has gotten very good at getting right under Jeb Bush's skin. And when you see him interviewed, when he talks about Donald Trump, he looks agitated. He looks annoyed with the fact he's actually having to address this.

So he -- it seems like -- I mean, this is up to his advisers, but it seems like he'd be better served rising above it than continuing to get down to Donald Trump's level.

CUOMO: Well, the problem is, he has struck a nerve, not so much just with the Bushes but with the GOP in general.

I mean, you know, look, even Peter Bergen wrote in a CNN op-ed, he's right for the most part, in terms of was there a lot of indication that there was a threat? Yes. Was there specific information that they were going to take planes and do what they did? No. So where do you come out in, in terms of whether Trump is making this up?

[06:10:10] MILLER: Well, you're certainly in a rough position of, you know, he's right in August before 9/11. There was that -- the famous national security briefing that George W. Bush got, where he was warned of a threat. But he didn't know what or how or necessarily when. And in hindsight, it's really easy to read that the right way.

But what Trump is doing is he's tapping into this open wound still within the GOP 14 years later over sort of do they have to reflexively defend a president who is still somewhat popular or not?

And, you know, for a lot of Trump supporters, the outsiders, the folks who are just angry at the system, they're just as angry with George W. Bush as they are with Barack Obama in a lot of ways. And for him to -- for him to sort of isolate on that thing, forcing Jeb Bush to go and defend his brother is just boosting his own stature.

CAMEROTA: Zeke, Jackie, stick around. We want to talk to you in a few minutes about Joe Biden. Thanks so much.

Let's get over to Michaela.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Did you mention Vice President Joe Biden, Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: I did.

PEREIRA: Well, he's still poised to make a decision whether to run in 2016. He's drawing a sharp contrast with Democratic frontrunner Hillary Clinton ahead of a potential announcement. Senior White House correspondent Jim Acosta has more for us now -- Jim.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Michaela.

Vice President Joe Biden is sharpening up his not-so-veiled criticism of Hillary Clinton, sounding more like a candidate every day. Last night Biden was at a tribute for former Vice President Walter Mondale. And for the third time in two days, he returned to what appeared to be a jab at Clinton's comment last week at the CNN debate that she considers Republicans among her biggest enemies. Without mentioning Clinton by name, Biden said talk like that is naive and won't fix Washington. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: The other team is not the enemy. If you treat it as the enemy, there is no way we can ever, ever, ever resolve the problems we have to.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Now Biden also tried to clear up his role in the mission to kill Osama bin Laden, saying yesterday that he supported the president's decision to go after the al Qaeda leader, even though he had said that he had advised against that operation in the past.

The vice president also appears to be beefing up his potential ground operation by lining up the support of the International Fire fighters' Union. The group's president, Harold Shaitberger, has spoken to Biden in the last few days and that the vice president, he says, in his words, is thoughtfully weighing a bid for the White House.

So we'll put this up on screen. Shaitberger added his group is mobilizing to support Biden, saying, "Our union is preparing as if the vice president is going to announce his candidacy."

But Shaitberger tried to tamp down expectations that a Biden announcement is due at any moment. And I think the biggest story out of what the vice president has been saying the last couple days, guys, is that he's really offering up a rationale for his candidacy, something that critics say was lacking. And that is that he would be the third term for President Obama.

Another contrast with Hillary Clinton, who has been criticizing some of the president's policies lately.

CUOMO: And it's a no-lose for the union, right, Jim? I mean, the Democrat, whoever it is, is going to need them anyway, so they can say whatever they want at this point.

ACOSTA: That's true.

CUOMO: That tees us up to this moment in time. Jim Acosta, thank you very much.

Tomorrow is a very big day, not just for Vice President Joe Biden but for the race for 2016 and all the players. Because here is the day that former secretary of state, Hillary Clinton, squares off with the House Benghazi committee.

Now, this morning, CNN is learning more about her game plan and how her supporters are already planning an attack against this beleaguered Republican-led panel.

Let's bring in CNN senior political correspondent Brianna Keilar, live in Washington with the latest.

Everything can change in terms of the dynamic of this race based on what happens tomorrow. What are you hearing, my friend?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. And her campaign is very aware of that, Chris.

What we're seeing is a multi-front Democratic attack on this Republican-led House Benghazi committee taking shape. The latest volley in this is coming out this morning. This is it.

It is a book by Correct the Record, which is the main super PAC defending Hillary Clinton. And it really takes aim at the committee on everything from the millions of dollars that the efforts have cost; and it also even digs up dirt on the individual members.

Now, we've also learned that there's going to be a war room that Correct the Record will be staffing a room of about 30 employees who will be doing rapid response. They're going to be firing back on things that they hear during Hillary Clinton's testimony, which we do expect, as it did back in 2013, is going to last several hours.

The Clinton campaign has armed its surrogates with talking points and really stressing the Democrats say that this is just a partisan charade and also to say that Hillary Clinton is testifying to, quote, "honor the memory of the four brave Americans who died at Benghazi."

We also saw the campaign put out a five-minute video earlier this week that stressed her accomplishments as secretary of state.

[06:15:04] Meanwhile, Clinton has been preparing now for days. Because as you said, this is something that they view as very important, and it could stymie some of that momentum she's enjoyed in the last couple of weeks, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Brianna. We look forward to hearing more about what's in that 140-page book that you got your hands on this morning. Thanks so much for all of that background.

Meanwhile, breaking overnight, Syrian President Bashar al-Assad makes a surprise visit to Moscow to meet with Russian President Vladimir Putin. This is Assad's first trip abroad since his country's civil war began more than four years ago.

CNN's Jill Dougherty is live in Moscow with more. What happened at this meeting, Jill?

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, it was a surprise. And President Putin himself said it was at his invitation for Assad to come here.

Also, Assad, by the way, has left. So it was a very quick but very important and high-profile trip, as you can imagine.

So what did they talk about? Of course, they talked about the military operation. They talked about the situation on the ground.

And then one thing that wasn't talked about, or at least we don't know that it was, and that is what's the future for Assad? There was a lot of attention paid to the political solutions that might ultimately be reached. But the press secretary for President Putin didn't say whether they actually had discussed that or not. So that's an outstanding question.

I think another thing, why was President Putin so interested in this? Well, obviously, I think, the body language was very important. Not only the substance of the meetings but the fact that it happened.

Assad here in Moscow for the first time, looking not like a beleaguered person, you know, in a basement hiding out. He was in a suit. He was in the Kremlin. And he did not look particularly stressed.

For President Putin, it worked very well, too. Because he now looks like a global player, and that's exactly what you got from these pictures.

PEREIRA: All right.

DOUGHERTY: Michaela.

PEREIRA: Jill, thank you so much for that.

In another set of high-stakes meetings set for the future, Secretary of State John Kerry is heading to Europe and the Middle East today. He'll be meeting separately with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Palestinian President Abbas, trying to stop the escalating violence between the two sides.

Ten Israelis, 46 Palestinians have been killed in clashes this month. Kerry is also hoping to reignite the peace process in Syria.

CUOMO: More breaking news of the troubling variety. A New York City police officer is dead after being shot in the head while chasing a robbery suspect. He's actually one of two officers shot in the line of duty overnight.

We have CNN's Alexandra Field joining us now with the latest. This happened right here in Manhattan.

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Chris. Good morning.

The New York City Police Department now mourning one of their own. This was the scene overnight in East Harlem, where Officer Randolph Holder was responding to reports of an armed robbery.

The 33-year-old officer approached a group of men, and a chase quickly followed. Just seconds later, bullets rang out. Holder was shot in the head. He was rushed to Harlem Hospital, but doctors could not save him. Another gunshot victim, believed to be the suspect in the case, was found close by. And he's expected to be charged later today.

Holder was a native of Guyana and a five-year veteran of the force. Police Commissioner Bill Bratton spoke about the loss last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COMMISSIONER BILL BRATTON, NYPD: Four police officers murdered in 11 months. That's about as bad as it gets. We've lost six in the line of duty, but four who were murdered in the line of duty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FIELD: And meantime in Kentucky, a standoff unfolding at this hour with a man believed to have shot another police officer. Prestonburg Officer Adam Dixon was hit in the chest late last night during an exchange of fire. He was air-lifted to a local hospital for surgery. Right now, no word on his condition.

Suspect is currently holed up inside a home, the scene remaining very active there. And another manhunt under way in New Mexico after a 4-year-old

girl was gunned down in a road rage incident. Albuquerque Police say one car pulled up next to the other on Interstate 40 and opened fire. The little girl was hit and died at the area hospital. Authorities are asking anyone with information to come forward. It is not clear what led to the shooting of this young child.

CAMEROTA: Well, Alexandra, these are just terrible, terrible crime stories. Let's hope that they can get some clues and resolve those quickly. Thank you for that.

Getting back to politics for a second: Why is Joe Biden taking shots at Hillary Clinton? Is this in preparation for getting into the presidential race? We'll discuss.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:23:32] CUOMO: All right. There's no reason to overhype, but we all know we're waiting to hear what Joe Biden says, and there's no specific news on the vice president.

CAMEROTA: Are you suggesting I've been overhyping it?

CUOMO: No, no. Me, too. You know, I'm with you; I'm color matching and everything.

CAMEROTA: I like that.

CUOMO: But here's the issue, is that now, there are signals being sent out by Joe Biden when he speaks specifically now about who we should regard as enemies and who we should not, which plays on what?

CAMEROTA: Well, Hillary Clinton as you will remember, during the debate, the CNN debate last week, named the Republicans in her list of enemies. So now Joe Biden appears to be taking a shot at Hillary Clinton as a result of that.

CUOMO: That's your word. You decide. Here's the SOT of the shot.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: It is necessary to end this notion -- let's end this notion that the enemy is the other party. End this notion. That it's naive to think we can speak well of the other party and cooperate. What is naive is to think it's remotely possible to govern this country unless we can. That is what is naive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: So is that a SOT of a shot or not? "SOT" is sound on tape.

CAMEROTA: Dr. Seuss. CUOMO: To discuss, "TIME" political reporter Zeke Miller and

senior politics editor for "The Daily Beast," Jackie Kucinich, is back.

Zeke, what's your read?

MILLER: Well, I was in the back of room there last night. And, you know, there are 20 reporters, probably, in the back of the room, and we all wrote it up as a shot at Hillary Clinton. And it seemed very clear that way, coming off that...

[06:25:04] CAMEROTA: Thank you, Zeke, for supporting my position.

That was a direct shot. I mean, that's what he's talking about. That is a direct shot at Hillary Clinton. Why is he doing that, Jackie?

KUCINICH: You know, gosh, your guess is as good as mine at this point, honestly. If Joe Biden is not thinking about running for president, he's doing a great job kind of messing with all of us at this point. Because he is.

It looks like he is starting to plant the seeds to give himself a basis to run. Because it does -- it has been looking like that door is closing. Hillary Clinton is stronger after that -- after the CNN debate last week. And she's going to have her Benghazi testimony tomorrow, which for all intents and purposes, seems like she's -- she's prepared for.

So you know, it really seems like Joe Biden is laying that foundation right now. But you know, maybe he's not. It really is. Flip a coin at this point.

CAMEROTA: What's your guess, Chris Cuomo?

CUOMO: My guess is that this is all very real and true as it's coming out of Joe Biden's mouth. He's always felt that he has to be a conciliator. He's always thought that the key was even the optics of dissension. So he's always said these kind of things long before Hillary Clinton said what she said in the debate, and he's done it so consistently.

I also think, Zeke, it is very real and true that he is divided, head and heart. Everyone that I'm able to talk to who's close to the situation says he wants to do this, but he's not sure that he can.

Now, the question is, "can" is a defined term, Zeke. Part of it, we know, is this emotional component. But what about the practicalities? Because I feel like they keep being neglected and how huge a task it would be with 100 days before the caucuses.

MILLER: Certainly, he faces a massive fundraising gap, Hillary Clinton, you know, with tens of millions in the bank, already this massive field organization on the ground. Joe Biden can build some of that. But there are structural problems with first deadline, you know, October 29 getting on the ballot in Georgia. Then November 6 getting on the ballot in Alabama. He needs to make that decision soon to start fundraising.

And even being a sitting vice president has its advantages. There's that free podium. But also, when you're a sitting vice president, you have to reimburse taxpayers for using, you know, that nice, fancy plane, Air Force Two.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

MILLER: So that costs a lot more money than flying coach on Southwest like other candidates did.

CUOMO: Who would fund a super PAC, who would be this big pocket to give them all that money, like Hillary has a couple of those, guys?

CAMEROTA: And by the way, history is not that kind to electing sitting vice presidents. Let's put up this little graphic of how many have been successful at that in the past 200 years. I'll tell you right now, it's George H.W. Bush, Martin Van Buren, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams.

You have to go back a long way to think that sitting vice presidents can be elected, Jackie.

KUCINICH: And a lot more have not been elected. I've tried and failed to become president. And yes, Joe Biden is also probably looking at his legacy. Does he want to be the guy who ran for president a third time and lost? Does he want -- you know, have that press scrutiny again that he had when he ran the last time?

So there are really -- there are a lot of decisions Joe Biden needs to make at this point. And also if you look at the polling, no one is calling for Joe Biden to get in right now.

So it really -- and I think Chris is absolutely right. I think he wants to run, but is it logistically possible at this point?

CUOMO: Let's put those numbers up that Jackie is referring to. Here's the, what should we call it, the tolerance quotient for the waiting game, should he run. Thirty, 38, 31. So you know, look, is there a -- what do you call it -- is there a threshold of support? Yes, but it's tepid at best, right, Zeke? I mean, he's not going to look at these numbers and see an answer for himself.

MILLER: Yes. This isn't like Paul Ryan. He's not going to be nominated by acclamation by the Democratic Party. You know, this isn't -- Joe Biden can't go around credibly and say, "Everyone has to vote, you know, support me, and then I'll jump into this race." Nobody is really calling for him to do this.

There are people worried about Hillary Clinton, but at that debate last week, her solid performance there, the Republican answer notwithstanding, you know, left a lot of people in the Democratic Party sort of -- mollified their concerns. They think that she is ready for this test. You know, yes, there are a lot of people in Delaware who like Joe

Biden a lot, people in Scranton who like Joe Biden. His former aides who like to talk to the press a lot like Joe Biden. But, you know, the grassroots Democratic Party has a lot of people they already like.

CAMEROTA: Jackie, let's talk about what's going to happen tomorrow in that vein. Clinton is going to be testifying on Benghazi. Do you think that Joe Biden is waiting and watching that testimony, and that will be what one of his decision-making factors?

KUCINICH: You know, he was also apparently watching the debate to see how she'd do in that and then would make a decision. So it's hard to say whether he's looking at that as a bellwether, for sure.

But there is no denying this is a very important moment for Hillary Clinton. This isn't her first rodeo. She's testified on Benghazi before. And you have to imagine that, you know, she's ready for this. And I think one of the biggest tests, honestly, is for Republicans on that committee, how they address her, how they ask her questions, in order to get an answer rather than to showboat.

Because as we all know, these hearings have sort of become more of a dog-and-pony show, rather than, you know, actually getting substantive answers, these televised congressional hearings.

CUOMO: But she's got to come...