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Clinton Testifies for 8 Hours in Front of Benghazi Select Committee; Cummings, Gowdy Clash Over Transcript, E-mails; Fact- Checking the Benghazi Hearing. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired October 23, 2015 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You knew the truth. That's not what the American people got.

[05:58:41] HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I've lost more sleep than all of you put together.

REP. TREY GOWDY (R-SC), CHAIRMAN, HOUSE SELECT COMMITTEE ON BENGHAZI: You immediate to make sure the entire record is correct, Mr. Cummings.

REP. ELIJAH CUMMINGS (D), MARYLAND: And that's exactly what I want to do. What do you have to hide?

CLINTON: I really don't care what you all say about me. It doesn't bother me a bit.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE; You have an increase in requests and yet no increase in security.

REP. PETER ROSKAM (R), ILLINOIS: Here's basically what happened to their requests. (TEARS PAPER)

CLINTON: Congress never fully funded the security requests.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What terms did you use? What were the parameters?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you ever talk to Ambassador Stevens? Yes or no question, Madame Secretary.

CLINTON: I've been racking my brain about what more could have been done.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: She must take responsibilities for failures that happened at the State Department under her watch.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We really didn't learn anything that the other eight investigations hadn't covered.

GOWDY: I don't know that she testified that much differently today than she has the previous time she's testified. (END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota and Michaela Pereira.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Friday, October 23, 6 a.m. in the east. Chris and Michaela are off. But no fear: John Berman is here.

Great to have you.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Fear for me.

CAMEROTA: Exactly. What a morning, what a night. It was a marathon 11-hour session during an often tense and testy hearing on Benghazi. Clinton managed to keep her cool even more than some committee members. And this morning, there are conflicting impressions about how much new information was actually revealed.

BERMAN: All right. How about these questions? Were there any new facts that proved that Hillary Clinton was directly responsible or negligent in preventing the attack in Benghazi? Did she provide any new information about her e-mails? And what impact will all of this have on the 2016 presidential race?

We have it all covered for you. Let's begin with CNN senior political correspondent Brianna Keilar live in Washington.

What a day it was, Brianna.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this was a feat of stamina yesterday, ten hours in the hot seat for Hillary Clinton. She came out the survivor here. Certainly, a lot of observers think that she was relatively unscathed. Her campaign feels pretty good about this.

But Republicans feel that she appeared very evasive and didn't answer all of their questions.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CLINTON: I really don't care what you all say about me. It doesn't bother me a lit.

KEILAR (voice-over): Hillary Clinton emerging from her Congressional grilling after enduring over eight hours of aggressive questioning...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not asking what the ARB did. I'm asking what you did.

CLINTON: I followed the law, Congressman.

KEILAR: ... by the Benghazi committee's Republican members.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's not answering the question. What were the search terms? Search terms means terms. What terms did you use...

CLINTON: I did not...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... and what were the date parameters? What date did you start, what was the end date, and the e-mails in between there we're going to look at?

CLINTON: Well, Congressman, I asked my attorneys to oversee the process. I did not look over their shoulder.

KEILAR: In the end, the committee broke very little new ground as Republicans tried to paint Clinton as directly responsible or negligent on the assault on the U.S. mission in Benghazi that claimed the lives of U.S. Ambassador Chris Stevens and three other Americans.

ROSKAM: Here's basically what happened to their requests. (TEARS PAPER) They were torn up.

KEILAR: But there is still no smoking gun.

CLINTON: The answers have changed not at all since I appeared two years ago before the House and the Senate.

KEILAR: Even committee chair Trey Gowdy admitted there wasn't any significant new revelations from Clinton.

GOWDY: I don't know that she testified that much differently today than she has previous times she's testified.

KEILAR: Democrats insisting the hearing was nothing but a partisan witch hunt.

CUMMINGS: I don't know what we want from you. Do we want to badger you over and over again until you get tired, until we do get the "gotcha" moment that he's talking about? We're better than that.

KEILAR: Clinton clearly enjoying herself while this testy exchange unfolded between the top Republican and Democrat on the committee.

GOWDY: Why is it that you only want Mr. Blumenthal's transcript released? Why don't you...

CUMMINGS: I'd like to have all of them released.

KEILAR: The argument over the relevance of e-mail exchanges between Clinton and her longtime friend and lightning rod Sidney Blumenthal, who frequently sent unsourced intelligence reports on Libya to Clinton.

GOWDY: I think it is imminently fair to ask why Sidney Blumenthal had unfettered access to you, Madame Secretary, with whatever he wanted to talk about; and there's not a single solitary e- mail to or from you, to or from Ambassador Stevens.

KEILAR: At one point, Clinton let her emotions show through... CLINTON: I've thought more about what happened than all of you

put together. I've lost more sleep than all of you put together.

KEILAR: ... when she said she had questioned her response to the deadly terror attack.

CLINTON: I have been racking my brain about what more could have been done or should have been done. What must we do better?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: This was really the third of three hurdles for Hillary Clinton in this month of October.

First, that Democratic debate, then confronting the possibility of a Joe Biden candidacy and now this. And I'll tell you, John, her team feels that she has three hits and no misses.

BERMAN: All right, Brianna, thank you so much.

You know, a lot of people thought there would be fireworks between the committee and Hillary Clinton.

Well, it turned out that the most fiery moments weren't between Republicans on the committee or Democrats on the committee and Hillary Clinton but between themselves. There was a fight between the chairman, Trey Gowdy, and the ranking member, Elijah Cummings, over Sidney Blumenthal. Sidney Blumenthal, a longtime friend to Bill and Hillary Clinton, who had been sending e-mails to Hillary Clinton for years, including during her time at the State Department.

He testified behind closed doors to this committee. Elijah Cummings wants that testimony, the transcript released. Listen to this exchange.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CUMMINGS: I move that we put into the record the entire transcript of Sidney Blumenthal. We're going to release the e-mails, let's do the transcript. That way the world can see it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I second that motion.

GOWDY: We didn't -- we didn't...

CUMMINGS: The motion has been seconded.

GOWDY: Well, we're not going to take that up at a hearing. We'll take that up...

CUMMINGS: Mr. Chairman, I have consulted with the parliamentarian, and they have informed us that we have a right to record a vote on that motion. We want...

GOWDY: Well, I'll tell you what. Let's do that. CUMMINGS: We asked for the truth, the whole truth and nothing

but the truth. Well, that's what we want to have. Let the world see it.

GOWDY: Why is it that you only want Mr. Blumenthal's transcript released? Why don't you want the survivors?

CUMMINGS: I'd like to have all of them released.

GOWDY: The survivors, even their names? You want that?

CUMMINGS: No, you know...

GOWDY: You want that released?

CUMMINGS: Let me tell you something. Right now...

GOWDY: The only one you've asked for is Sidney Blumenthal. It's the only one you've asked for, that and Ms. Mills.

[06:05:06] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cheryl Mills. Cheryl Mills.

CUMMINGS: That's not true.

GOWDY: That's two out of 54. If you want to ask for some fact witnesses...

CUMMINGS: I asked for a recorded vote on the Blumenthal. You said from the beginning we want the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Why don't we just put the entire transcript out there and let the world see it? What do you have to hide?

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D), CALIFORNIA: These are the only e-mails you have released. And in fairness to Mr. Blumenthal and to the American people, in the interest of a complete record, if you're going to release his e-mails, release his transcript where he has the chance to give the context of those e-mails.

GOWDY: Well, you keep referring to the Blumenthal e-mails. I would hasten to remind both of you, the only reason we have Blumenthal e-mails is because he e-mailed the secretary of state. Those are her e-mails. That's why they were released. They're not Blumenthal's e- mails.

And she wanted all of her e-mails released. She's been saying since March, "I want the entire world to see my e-mails." Well, Sidney Blumenthal's e-mails are part of that. I'm not going to release one transcript of someone who knows nothing about Libya by his own admission, while people who risked their lives, you have no interest in their story getting out. You don't want the -- you don't want the 18 D.S. agents; you don't want the CIA agents. The only transcripts you want released are Ms. Mills and Sidney Blumenthal. We'll take all of this up in November.

SCHIFF: The only person you were interested in asking about during your entire questioning was Sidney Blumenthal. If you're so interested in him, release the transcript. You've selectively released his e-mails. That's the only witness you've done that for.

GOWDY: I'm going to ask the gentleman from California to please do a better job of characterizing. These are not Sidney Blumenthal's e-mails. These are Secretary Clinton's e-mails. And I'll tell you what. If you think you've heard about Sidney Blumenthal so far, wait until the next round. With that, we're adjourned.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: That's where Hillary Clinton was thinking, "Do I have to be here for this? There's so much to debate this morning, so let's bring in David Brock. He's the founder of the pro-Hillary super PAC Correct the Record. And Ben Ferguson, he's a CNN political commentator and host of "The Ben Ferguson Show." Gentlemen, so much to talk about.

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning.

CAMEROTA: Ben, let me start with you. What was the defining moment for you of the hearing?

FERGUSON: I think it was the two stories that Hillary Clinton told, one where she lied to the American people and said that this was a spontaneous protest that cost the lives of four Americans, including the ambassador; and the private e-mails that she was sending to her own family, to leaders of other countries, the same exact night, saying this was not an attack because of a spontaneous protest. This was connected to al Qaeda.

So why did she purposely lie to the American people? And I think even more than that, if you listen to family members who lost loved ones, they said she looked them in the eyes, days after their loved ones had died, when they were having their caskets come off the plane on the tarmac at Andrews. And she told them deliberately to their face a lie she knew was a lie, a lie that she wouldn't even tell her own daughter. But she looked at these families and said, "I'm so sorry that your family members died because a spontaneous protest," which was a fabricated story. That she looked at these family members and she told them a lie for her own political gain. That to me was the point of the night.

CAMEROTA: David, respond to that.

DAVID BROCK, PRO-HILLARY CLINTON SUPER PAC CORRECT THE RECORD: Look, I think that there are a lot of conservatives out there. You have Erick Erickson, a right-wing commentator, saying that this was a waste of time. You had FOX News that pursued this, 1,000 segments in the first 20 months after the tragedy. They stopped taking it live.

So you have a problem when you have that. And the problem is the Republicans totally overplayed their hand. There was nothing new here that changes the picture.

CAMEROTA: But David, on that point...

BROCK: Hold on. There was nothing new that changes the picture. These questions have been asked and answered.

FERGUSON: It was new that she lied to the people that family members were killed.

BROCK: No. She talked about the fog of war. And she talked about -- she's answered these questions before.

FERGUSON: There's no fog when you're telling...

BROCK: These Republicans -- these Republicans have concluded before, unless you're going to say they're incompetent the way that Chairman Gowdy did, that there was no premeditated effort to mislead them at all.

CAMEROTA: But David, how do you -- but David -- but David, hold on a second. How do you explain that she had it right? She got it right in the first hours afterward, that it didn't have anything to do with the video and then there was a whole narrative for the following week that it was about a video?

BROCK: If we were watching the testimony, first of all, she said there was an al Qaeda-connected terrorist who was at first claiming credit for this and then retracted it.

And what people are really missing here, there's no cover-up. President Obama went into the Rose Garden and talked about a terrorist attack the next morning. This conspiracy theory never made sense.

CAMEROTA: But he wasn't talking about a terrorist attack in relation to...

BROCK: I think it's sad that some people...

FERGUSON: David.

BROCK: The fringe in this country are never going to accept the government's word on this, no matter who it is.

BERMAN: Hang on, Ben. Hang on. Hang on, hang on. Let me read the e-mails.

The one thing that was new, new information that none of us had ever heard was this e-mail from Hillary Clinton to Chelsea Clinton that was -- was brought out in this hearing. Let me just read you what this e-mail says. And again, it's irrefutable. This was new. We had not known about this before.

[06:10:07] It said, "Two officers" -- this is from Hillary to Chelsea, "Two officers were killed today in Benghazi by an al Qaeda- like group." That information was conveyed, David, from Hillary Clinton to Chelsea Clinton.

BROCK: Right.

BERMAN: Within the hours that she released to the public a statement about what happened in Benghazi. Now, Ben, and some Republicans on the committee mischaracterized

what that statement said. Also, that statement said some people are saying it was a video." But Hillary Clinton certainly did not say in the statement that these people in Benghazi were killed by an al Qaeda-like group. Why the omission?

FERGUSON: She also didn't...

BERMAN: No, no. Why, David, didn't she tell the American people in that release that some people were suggesting that our four Americans in Benghazi were killed by an al Qaeda-like group?

BROCK: Because there was a lot of conflicting information in the moment. And as I said, and as she testified, one piece of information was someone claiming that this was a terrorist attack connected to al Qaeda. That was retracted.

But this theory that goes to the question of whether the public was told the truth never made sense, because the public statements were true.

FERGUSON: John...

CAMEROTA: Ben -- Ben...

FERGUSON: You have Hillary Clinton, let's be clear. Let me say this real quick. If you're Hillary Clinton, you sat there and you had a blunt conversation with the president of Libya. You had a blunt conversation with the prime -- with people in charge in Egypt. And you said in those e-mails to them, this was not an attack based on a protest.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

FERGUSON: But you meet the family members, and you looked them in the eyes and tell them -- let me finish. You tell them...

BROCK: I'm done with the phony outrage for the family.

FERGUSON: No, no, no. It's not phony outrage.

BROCK: Marco Rubio is out there raising money off these dead Americans.

FERGUSON: Let me finish.

It's not phony outrage when you have four caskets come off the plane with an American flag draped over them. If you call four dead Americans phony outrage, I'm sorry, that is...

CAMEROTA: Hold on, Ben -- Ben, hold on. David, hold on. Ben, hold on. Because there's a larger issue here, Ben. And this is what, I think, often trips up the Republicans.

So afterwards there might have been political spin. It appears that there were conflicting reports. But that's not about the cause of Benghazi. And what to do differently before the attack.

FERGUSON: Sure.

CAMEROTA: And this investigation is supposed to have been about what caused it, what happened, how do we do something differently? But Republicans have seized on the spin afterwards. So what came out about the cause and what can be changed?

FERGUSON: I think -- I think it was very clear that Secretary Clinton did not know what our policy was in Benghazi, in Libya at the time.

BERMAN: What do you mean, what policy?

FERGUSON: I don't know why she had Americans go into harm's way there. Because what was the objective? What was the policy? Why were we sending people there who were going to be under this big of a security risk without a clear viewpoint of what our policy was?

Even our own staff members said, "I'm not sure Hillary Clinton even knew that we had a presence in Benghazi" in their e-mails. So there are two takeaways from this. The big one is: what were we doing there, and did we even know what our game plan was or goal?

BERMAN: Ben, Ben...

FERGUSON: It doesn't seem that Hillary Clinton understood that.

BERMAN: Ben, one thing that came out in the hearing, Hillary Clinton claims she didn't send Christopher Stevens to Benghazi. Christopher Stevens, who was the ambassador, made the decision to go to Benghazi from Tripoli on his own.

I want to ask David a question, though, that again, was not answered in this hearing. It has not really been answered since 2012, but one that keeps coming up, which is why weren't the requests for security, why were they not granted over time? More requests for security, hundreds of requests for security.

I understand Hillary Clinton explaining that they never got to her. That's a separate issue. But she has never explained why she believes that they were not granted. Isn't that important? Isn't that the crux of the issue here in finding out what happened in Benghazi and making sure it doesn't happen again?

BROCK: Yes, that is an important question. And as you said, these requests never came to the secretary. But I think the elephant in the room -- and Secretary Clinton did mention this in her testimony yesterday -- was that you had -- you had a Republican Congress that wasn't willing to fund embassy security. And now I think it's really hypocritical for them to come out and make a big issue of this when they, in fact, wouldn't fund it. Now, they've done better since, learning the lesson of Benghazi, which we all should, but that was a big problem back then, for sure.

CAMEROTA: Ben, what's your response to that? FERGUSON: No one claimed -- that was involved in security that

the security requests were denied, David. Again, listen to what she said in her own words...

Berman: Ben, Ben, Ben, Ben. No, no, Ben. No, no, Ben. Peter Roskam tore up those papers right there. He said, "This is what happened to all those requests." So that was the clear implication.

FERGUSON: I'm agreeing. My point is, no one is claiming that the reason why they were denied or they didn't get extra security was because of funding. I don't know why Democrats even brought that in there. That wasn't like the security requests were denied because of funding, saying sorry, we're not sending security to Benghazi, because we don't have any money, the United States of America. That never happened. That's a false narrative put out by the Democrats.

[06:15:09] CAMEROTA: So in other words, you're saying that we don't know why they -- we still don't know why they were declined?

(CROSSTALK)

FERGUSON: What was going on...

BROCK: What's the answer? What's the answer?

FERGUSON: I would love for Hillary Clinton since she's in charge of the State Department at the time to try to figure that out. But we don't know.

BROCK: We already heard -- we already heard 11 hours of testimony. We would have been better off showing her testimony from three years ago and saving the $5 million. The chairman of this committee...

FERGUSON: Well, if we would have done that..

BROCK: ... he's on tape. Hold on. He's on tape saying there was nothing new in her testimony.

CAMEROTA: All right. Guys...

BERMAN: David...

FERGUSON: If we would have done that...

CAMEROTA: Quickly.

BERMAN: Eleven hours plus nine minutes.

FERGUSON: ... we would not have ever seen the e-mail that went to Hillary Clinton's daughter...

BROCK: And it wouldn't have mattered.

FERGUSON: ... saying the truth.

BROCK: And it wouldn't have mattered.

CAMEROTA: Guys, we have...

BROCK; It didn't change the picture at all, and it wouldn't have mattered.

CAMEROTA: We have a lot to talk about.

BROCK: Doesn't change the picture at all.

CAMEROTA: David, thank you very much for showing us that these questions still remain and just how contentious the hearing was.

We will have much more on this hearing throughout the morning. Coming up in our 7 a.m. hour, we will hear from the Republican Congressman who did have that defining moment, Jim Jordan. He repeatedly sparred with Clinton.

And in our 8 a.m. hour, we will speak with presidential candidate Rand Paul. We will also have Democratic Congressman Luis Gutierrez on. They all have very strong opinions about what they heard yesterday.

BERMAN: All right. We have big breaking news in the Republican presidential race. Ben Carson, a commanding lead in Iowa over Donald Trump in the poll that most political insiders tell you matters more than any other.

"The Des Moines Register"/Bloomberg poll, the gold standard. There it shows Ben Carson, a nine-point lead -- nine-point lead -- over Donald Trump. Second poll in two days that shows Carson with a lead there. A Quinnipiac poll yesterday had him at 28 percent, Trump down at 20 percent. We're going to have much more on what this all means. Because all of a sudden Donald Trump can no longer say he's leading in every poll. In fact, he is trailing decisively in the very first voting state.

CAMEROTA: All right. Meanwhile, we do have some breaking news to tell you about, because there's been a fiery, violent head-on crash between a bus and a truck, killing at least 42 people. This happened in southern France near Bordeaux. Most of the victims were elderly people on a tour bus. An official says just eight people escaped after the collision. A CNN affiliate said this is France's worst road accident in more than 30 years.

BERMAN: Also breaking overnight, one person is dead and at least two wounded in a shooting at the main campus of Tennessee state university. The injured are students, their injuries not life- threatening. The man who died was not enrolled at the school. Nashville police say the shooting apparently started during a dispute over a dice game. It is believed the shooter fled on foot.

CAMEROTA: All right. As you've seen, there was a lot of finger pointing...

BERMAN: Still is. CAMEROTA: ... during Hillary Clinton's marathon testimony

yesterday. And still this morning. Did her accusers get the facts straight? Were her answers plausible? We are separating fact from fiction, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:21:51] BERMAN: All right. What a day. Eleven hours, marathon testimony. There were a lot of claims on both sides. Everything from the State Department's response to the Benghazi attack to Clinton's private e-mail server. Want to cut through the noise as best we can.

We're joined this morning by CNN political commentator, Washington correspondent for "The New Yorker," Ryan Lizza; and CNN political commentator and political anchor at New York One, Errol Louis.

Gentlemen, we're going to sort of go claim by claim right now and figure out what was true-ish, maybe what was not as true-ish. Or at least figure out where the sides come down on it.

CAMEROTA: Don't overpromise.

BERMAN: I know.

Hillary Clinton was talking about her e-mails. She said repeatedly, and she has said it for some time now, that 90 to 95 percent of all the e-mails she used -- sent were at the State Department sent or received were actually captured and saved on the State Department's e-mail servers. Let's listen to her sound on that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: Ninety to 95 percent of my work-related e-mails were in the state system. If they wanted to see them, they would certainly have been able to do so.

GOWDY: You know what? That is -- that is maybe the tenth time you have cited that figure today.

CLINTON: It is.

GOWDY: And I have not heard anyone other than you ever cite that figure. Who told you that 90 to 95 percent of your e-mails were on the State -- were in the State Department's system? Who told you that?

CLINTON: We learned that from the State Department and their analysis of the e-mails that were already on the system.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So, Ryan, Hillary Clinton has always said that she tried, whenever she could, when doing business, to send e-mails to other people to their state.gov e-mail address. Does that mean she's right, 90 to 95 percent?

RYAN LIZZA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think the number is a little difficult for us to determine, right, the exact percentage. But she is correct that, even though she used her own server, you know, a non-dot-gov e-mail address, a lot of the time she was e-mailing to people at the State Department who had state.gov e- mail addresses. And a lot of the e-mails that she was getting were from state.gov e-mail addresses, which means that -- that they were captured in the state system, right? That means they would have been, you know, dispersed across other accounts. But as she points out, that's still in the state system.

BERMAN: Scattered. Scattered. There but scattered.

CAMEROTA: We're going to call that one true-ish.

LIZZA: The exact number, though -- I think the exact number, 90 to -- as Gowdy pointed out, the exact number, the origin of that number is -- we don't know.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

LIZZA: Hillary Clinton says it came from the State Department. Gowdy said he's not heard that.

CAMEROTA: OK. Let's talk, Errol, about another thing that we need to fact check. And that is, as everyone knows, there were seven other committees investigating this. Trey Gowdy said his was the best. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOWDY: These questions lingered, because previous investigations were not thorough. These questions lingered, because those previous investigations were narrow in scope and either incapable or unwilling to access the facts and evidence necessary to answer all relevant questions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: OK. Were the others narrow in scope?

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think some of his fellow representatives might take issue with that characterization. This is in part Trey Gowdy, I think, wanting to remind everybody that his was the best of the different probes.

[06:25:09] I mean, look, the Accountability Review Board, which is really a very intensive investigation, turned out a whole lot of information, minus a lot of the politics.

Trey Gowdy, though, I think is correct to sort of claim credit for having brought to light the whole question of the e-mails on the private server. So he struck gold where...

CAMEROTA: So his went further than others? LOUIS: He struck gold where a lot of the other probers did not.

BERMAN: And in fact -- and in fact, Ryan, you know, a couple pieces of new information that came to light, one that literally came to light yesterday, which was Hillary's new e-mail to Chelsea Clinton, which we hadn't seen before. Another was the conversation she had with the Egyptian prime minister that we hadn't heard about until Democrats actually released it a short time ago. But it was part of this revelation process.

There's this -- there's this new claim, this new information that Hillary Clinton was speaking about the Benghazi attacks not being about the video, but being the product of direct terrorist and even al Qaeda attacks contemporaneously. That's new.

LIZZA: Right. To the Egyptians and to Chelsea. Right. A lot of people are making a big deal of this.

If you believe that the al Qaeda -- that the video was a cover story, right? That it was part of a conspiracy to hide the truth about what the true nature of the attacks were, then you might want to seize on this piece of information.

The way it looks to me is that the initial reporting was all over the place. And even in Clinton's book, she made the case that initially, there was an al Qaeda-linked group that took credit for the attack. Then they -- then they no longer took credit for that.

During those first two weeks, she went back and forth, thinking between the video had a lot to do with it, and it didn't. And I think yesterday she still maintained that the video had something to do with the attack, at least in terms of recruiting people to go and attack the embassy.

I don't -- I've never thought, and I've looked at this pretty closely -- I've never thought that the administration was using the video as a cover-up to deny that this was an al Qaeda attack because, you know, I've never understood why they would have done that in the first place. To me, it's always looked like a lot of conflicting reports in the fog of war.

CAMEROTA: OK. Errol, let's talk about this whole line of questioning that popped up about Sidney Blumenthal and how he had a direct line of access to Secretary Clinton when so many other people that the committee thought were more relevant did not. So listen to this moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE POMPEO (R), KANSAS: Can you tell us why security requests from your professionals, the man that you just testified -- and with which I agree -- are incredibly professional, incredibly capable people, trained in the art of keeping us all safe, none of those made it to you?

But a man who was a friend of yours, who had never been to Libya, didn't know much about it -- at least that's his testimony -- didn't know much about it, every one of those reports that he sent on to you that had to do with situations on the ground in Libya, those made it to your desk?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: There you go. Is that a fair line of questioning?

LOUIS: It's a fair question. But the answer is actually pretty obvious and doesn't yield the kind of dynamite that I think they were hoping for. Which is that she's got 70,000 employees. She's got 270 missions around the world. Almost everything is supposed to be vetted, you know, including important security information, at a level well below her before it reaches her desk.

Now, her political friend, whose e-mails we can see -- much of it is online, and you can sort of read through it -- he's playing amateur spy. He's playing amateur diplomat. He's playing amateur political consultant. And the stuff in some ways is somewhat laughable.

The notion that she was relying on this for advice, I don't think is even born out by her responses. In a lot of cases, she's passing it on to her professional staff, sending him back through the same channels that anybody else would go through. And we know from testimony, that a lot of the other people that had to receive this stuff kind of rolled their eyes. And they said, here's this guy. He's not a professional, doesn't know Libya, doesn't know what he's talking about. And we sort of have to handle this and see if there's anything to it, which in most cases was not true.

BERMAN: And Ryan, it was clear what some were trying to do right there. They were trying to set up a parallel relationship, where "Sidney Blumenthal was your friend. His e-mails got to you. Hillary Clinton, you say Christopher Stevens was your friend, but his concerns never got to you."

LIZZA: And I -- look, I understand there's some superficial appeal to that argument. The way -- so far, what it looks like she used the private e-mail for was to communicate with her senior staff in her office. Some people have argued that maybe there was a little bit of a bubble mentality, she was a little walled off from the rest of the State Department. Maybe that's true, and it was a managerial issue. And she also used the e-mail to talk to outside people to sort of get information from outside that bubble.

She did not use that private e-mail to communicate with the 70,000 State Department employees or to communicate with ambassadors or assistant secretaries.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

LIZZA: And I'm puzzled as to why the Republicans or anyone would want her to communicate on that private system with sensitive information going back and forth to ambassadors. They had their own way of reaching her. CAMEROTA: Yes. Ryan Lizza, Errol Louis, thanks so much for

helping us sift our way through all -- everything that came out in these 11 hours. We appreciate you guys being here.

We do have some breaking news, though, in the presidential race that we want to get to. Ben Carson taking a commanding lead in a critical state. I'll tell you right now, it's Iowa. But we will break down...

BERMAN: You blew the mystery.

CAMEROTA: I did. But what...