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Second Iowa Poll Has Carson on Top; Hillary Clinton Grilled in 11-Hour Benghazi Hearing. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired October 23, 2015 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Ben Carson taking a commanding lead in a critical state. I'll tell you right now, it's Iowa.

But we'll break down --

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: You blew the mystery.

CAMEROTA: I did. But, what, here's the mystery we will talk about. What does this mean for the GOP field, particularly the front- runner, Donald Trump?

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: We have some breaking political news this morning. Look at these numbers. Look at this.

The second poll in 24 hours puts Ben Carson on top. He has leapfrogged Donald Trump. This in Iowa. Carson leads with 28 percent. Trump is nine points behind at 19 percent. This is the brand new "Des Moines Register"/Bloomberg Politics poll. And this could have a huge impact on the presidential race.

So, let's bring back our political commentator and Washington correspondent for "The New Yorker", Ryan Lizza.

[06:35:00] Also CNN political commentator and political anchor at New York 1, Errol Louis.

Errol, what do you make of these new poll numbers in Iowa?

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, they are a very interesting sort of phenomena. As we talked about a little bit yesterday, evangelicals are a particular kind of voter. They like to see people who are living a lifestyle that's somewhat similar to theirs, a certain kind of understatement, a certain modesty.

Donald Trump doesn't do understatement and modesty. Ben Carson sort of looks more like the kind of candidate, frankly, they have voted for in the past. Rick Santorum, Mike Huckabee back in 2008.

BERMAN: George W. Bush in 2000.

LOUIS: George W. Bush.

BERMAN: And, look, the evangelical voters, the reason we keep talking about them in Iowa is because they make up 40 plus percent sometimes of the Iowa electorate.

We have another number right here. Is Donald Trump a committed Christian, Ryan? Thirty-two percent say he is, 28 percent say not, and 40 percent say not sure.

So, obviously, this is an area of softness for Donald Trump in Iowa. My question is a question that has plagued me for months. This is the kind of thing that can be addressed by spending a little money. You can put a few ads on TV, talking about your faith. You can target evangelical voters in mailings.

It's malpractice for Donald Trump not to be doing this in that state. Now these two polls, yesterday and today, we're seeing the effects.

RYAN LIZZA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I don't think Donald Trump is -- it has to be true, though, right?

CAMEROTA: Does it?

LIZZA: As far as we know Donald Trump is not a religious conservative. I mean, he was at an Iowa forum earlier in the summer where he, you know, he sort of joked about his own religiosity or lack of religiosity. And not that there's anything wrong with that, politicians should be true to who they are.

And I don't know. If he started doing mailings and talking about Jesus Christ and claiming to be an evangelical conservative when there's no history or record of that, I think that undercuts his main claim of authenticity.

Also, I will note with these Iowa polls, always interesting. But be careful, 2012 at this point in the process, Rick Santorum, the guy who went on to win the Iowa caucuses was at 2 percent.

CAMEROTA: But, Errol, hold on a second. Donald Trump does say he'll make stores say "Merry Christmas". Doesn't that make him a committed Christian?

LOUIS: That's a start. I don't know if the "Merry Christmas" thing offsets, you know, owning casinos and having been married three times, you know, sort of openly worshipping Mammon (ph) for lack of a better term.

This is not what normally will fly with conservative religious voters. And so, he's got something to overcome. I don't know. I mean, Ryan is exactly right. You can send ads out to folks but they're not necessarily going to believe those ads if you've got the kind of history that Donald Trump has had.

Ben Carson, by the way, I mean, we've also got to make note, he's really made masterful use of Facebook and social media. So, he's connected to voters in a way that outsiders can't necessarily penetrate or duplicate. And that's going to account for a lot of votes.

BERMAN: Well, both of you disagreed with me. It's lowered your favorability in my school. I say that right there.

But, Ryan, the significance of this, I don't think should be understated right now. I know you're right. The polls in October don't necessarily equate to what we're going to see in the caucuses. But we're seeing a trend now.

The trend is Donald Trump was winning everywhere. Now, he's not winning everywhere, including the first voting state. And this could be problematic for his main argument which is "I'm a winner."

LIZZA: I agree with you there 100 percent. If you are -- that's why the consultants always say don't go out there and brag about your polls in the summer and the fall. Don't even mention them. If you're up in the polls, great, but don't go out there every day and make that your message. His message if you watch his rallies or interviews, I'm going to win this thing because I'm at the top of the polls in the summer and fall.

Well, now he has a little bit of a problem. He's had two polls in a row showing Ben Carson the leader in Iowa. He's no longer on top.

And if you guys noticed yesterday what happened on Twitter, he retweeted someone making fun of the Iowans saying that they were essentially crazy. That person was making a joke, of course. But that explains Trump's slip in the polls.

He then got criticism for that. He deleted the tweet. I don't know if he was joking or not, he tweeted out something that said it was an intern who had made -- had retweeted that.

BERMAN: Always the intern.

CAMEROTA: Well, you know --

LIZZA: Let me tell you -- the one thing that Iowans do not like is to be made fun of. That's a line you can't cross in American politics in these presidential primaries.

CAMEROTA: Well, that's interesting, because that raises the next poll number. That is how do Donald Trump's insults affect voters and how do they feel about his insults? Do they not bother you? Fifty-four percent say they do not bother him. Less supportive, 46 percent.

So, Iowans may be in that category, Errol.

LOUIS: Well, that's right. There are a lot of people who have spent most of their life trying to live by and also teach their children, you don't go around insulting people, you know, not in public.

[06:40:01] It's not just good manners.

You can oppose them. You can even be nasty to them in some sort of direct way. The insults, the public discourse of this kind, it really does turn off a lot of people.

And, you know, Donald Trump has sort of made his brand that I don't care who I offend, this is my style. What you see is what you get. There is a price apparently to be paid for that.

CAMEROTA: Errol, Ryan, thank you. Thanks so much.

LIZZA: Thanks, guys.

CAMEROTA: Great to parse all that with you. We'll talk more about this in our 8:00 hour with Republican presidential candidate Rand Paul. He has a lot of thoughts this morning that he wants to share with all of you. He'll be in our studio.

CUOMO: All right. The big question, Hillary Clinton, candidate for president 2016, 11 hours on the hot seat yesterday. So, is her candidacy looking better today than it did yesterday? What did we learn from the testimony? What did we learn about her as a candidate?

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:45:01] BERMAN: All right. A marathon session inside Congress yesterday. Hillary Clinton facing questions from the House Select Committee investigating Benghazi. Republicans asked about requests for extra security at the compound.

Why did they never reach Hillary Clinton? Why was she taking intelligence from a friend who used to be a journalist, an adviser to Bill Clinton in lasted a long time, 11 hours, start to finish.

CAMEROTA: A rare presidential veto captured on camera. President Obama vetoing a $612 billion defense authorization bill in a public Oval Office ceremony, accusing congressional Republicans of spending gimmicks. The measure would have also made it more difficult for the president to close the military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Republicans say they will try to override this veto.

BERMAN: Wisconsin Congressman Paul Ryan makes it official. He will run for House speaker. He got the support of two more influential Republican facts after the Freedom Caucus which includes some of the most conservative House members, gave him their support. Ryan said he's ready and eager to lead. A vote to elect the new House speaker is scheduled for next week.

CAMEROTA: Mexico's Pacific coast is a target one of the strongest hurricanes ever recorded.

BERMAN: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Patricia now a catastrophic category 5 storm, packing unprecedented 200 mile-per-hour winds. Forecasters say the powerful storm is expected to make landfall this evening. In Mexico, residents being urged to evacuate and prepare for the worst. This monster storm is being compared to typhoon Haiyan which killed 6,300 people in the Philippines two years ago.

BERMAN: Yes, this just exploded overnight. Meteorologists are very, very concerned.

CAMEROTA: I can see that. It's terrifying.

BERMAN: All right. The 49ers and Seahawks, they fought on Thursday night football. And even though it's only week 7, this was a must-win for both teams, which were supposed to be good and haven't been.

Andy Scholes with the bleacher report.

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good morning, guys.

You know, both the Seahawks and 49ers haven't been very good this season. Both with a disappointing 2-4 coming into last night's game and if you fall to 2-5 in the NFL, you've got only about a 3 percent chance of making the playoffs. Both of these teams knew how important this game was.

It was another rough night for Colin Kaepernick, sacked six times, completing 13 passes in game. This incomplete pass right here is actually going to drill one of the team's trainers right in the head. Hopefully, he's OK. The Seahawks win this game easily by a final score of 20-3.

A homecoming queen in Alabama giving roll tide a whole new meaning last week. To honor her dad's last game coaching West Blocton High School, Jodie Farnetti, she wanted to go out and make a field goal in the third quarter, went out there, she nailed it. The first person she runs and hugs on the sideline is, of course, her dad. Pretty cool moment for them.

Earlier in the night, Jodie had been named homecoming queen while rocking the football uniform. Definitely don't see that every day.

Finally, the Mets could find out who they will be facing in the World Series. Tonight, game six of the ALCS between the Blue Jays and Royals, at 8:00 Eastern. And, guys, the Royals, they can close the serious out with a win.

BERMAN: All right, Andy. Thanks so much.

CAMEROTA: Thanks, Andy.

BERMAN: Hillary Clinton under fire during the marathon hearing on Benghazi. Did she emerge unscathed? Did her campaign to be the next president of the United States take some hits? We're going to speak to a Clinton supporter, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:52:40] BERMAN: All right. Hillary Clinton face-to-face with Congress, facing a lot of questions, mostly from Republicans during a marathon 11-hour hearing on Benghazi. How did she hold up under the pressure? Did we learn anything new from all of this?

Joining us is former undersecretary for political affairs, former State Department official and former ambassador to Greece, Nicholas Burns. He is also a Hillary Clinton supporter. So understand that when I ask him this first question.

Nicholas, Mr. Burns, Ambassador, did you think she emerged from this unscathed? Are there any remaining questions? Do you think her candidacy for president is safe this morning?

NICHOLAS BURNS, FORMER U.S. UNDER SECRETARY FOR POLITICAL AFFAIRS: I think she was very impressive. She answered all the questions in that marathon session yesterday. You know, Secretary Clinton has now had I think eight reviews by congressional committees of what happened in Benghazi. She's answered all the questions for years now. And she's also accepted, as you know, the Accountability Review Board, the review board put in place by the State Department, an independent review, to look into Benghazi.

She accepted way back in 2012 and '13 their recommendations and corrective measures were taken to improve security. So, frankly, I thought she was impressive. I thought she was honest and straightforward, and she comported herself with a lot of dignity.

BERMAN: One of the areas that's been under question since 2012 is why requests for more security in Benghazi, why these requests were not granted. This was asked in different ways repeatedly to the former secretary of state yesterday.

She faced questions from Representative Peter Roskam about her personal responsibility for the diplomatic outpost in Benghazi. Listen to this exchange.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PETER ROSKAM (R), ILLINOIS: What's your responsibility to Benghazi? That's my question.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, my responsibility was to be briefed and to discuss with the security experts and the policy experts, whether we would have a post in Benghazi, whether we would continue it, whether we would make it permanent. As I've said repeatedly throughout the day, no one ever recommended closing the post in Benghazi.

ROSKAM: No one recommended closing but you had two ambassadors that made several, several requests, and here's basically what happened to their requests.

[06:55:01] They were torn up.

CLINTON: Well, that's just not true.

ROSKAM: They were dismissed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: The tearing up the papers obviously theatrical. The basic question is why were the requests for security not granted? I understand Hillary Clinton said they never got to her. So, it wasn't her decision. But why weren't they granted by the people whose decision it was?

BURNS: You know, I think what was misleading about the hearing yesterday was that there's, I think, a lot of members of Congress perhaps don't recognize how the State Department and federal agencies actually work. We have more than 266 embassies and consulates. And so, the secretary of state, I've worked for many secretaries of state, of both parties, cannot make individual, specific decisions on embassy "A" or consulate "B", you have to leave to that your assistant secretary for diplomatic security and the other security officials.

And so, I think that's part of the answer there. The other part of the answer is, you remember what happened that week in September of 2012? There were protests and violent incidents at a multitude of American embassy that week in the Arab world. So, our State Department was juggling a very dangerous situation in Benghazi, certainly, and also in other posts.

So, I think it's unfair for the critics to say that Secretary Clinton had personal responsibility to make all these individual decisions. That's not how a large organization of 50,000 employees works.

BERMAN: Again, that seems to be a separate question for why the requests were not honored or why they said no over time. Let's leave that because we didn't get answers yesterday. I guess I'm not going to get them this morning.

I do have an area which I think you have unique expertise in, which is should an ambassador have the e-mail address of the secretary of state? You've worked inside the State Department. You've worked as an ambassador. I want to play and exchange where one of the rather thanes on the committee was asking Hillary Clinton about whether Christopher Stevens could reach her. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE POMPEO (R), KANSAS: Ambassador Stevens did not have your personal e-mail address. We've established that.

CLINTON: Yes, that's right.

POMPEO: Did he have your cell phone number?

CLINTON: No, but he had the 24-hour number of the state operations in the State Department that can reach me 24/7.

POMPEO: Yes, ma'am.

Did he have your fax number?

CLINTON: He had the fax number of the State Department.

POMPEO: Did he have your home address?

CLINTON: No, I don't think any ambassador has ever asked me for that.

POMPEO: Did he ever stop by your House?

CLINTON: No, he did not, Congressman.

POMPEO: Mr. Blumenthal had each of those and did those things. This man upon whom provided you so much information in Libya had access to you in ways that were very different than the access that a very senior diplomat had.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: You were nodding your head there during that exchange. Do ambassadors normally have the e-mail address, the cell phone number of the secretary of state?

BURNS: No, that's not how it works. We have hundreds of ambassadors overseas. You don't just drop by the house of the secretary of state. You don't just send off an e-mail. What you do is report through channels, even ambassadors that are senior officials. You can send a cable to the secretary of state whenever you want but ordinarily, an ambassador will communicate lower down the chain, the undersecretary of state, the assistant secretary of state. The secretary of state is, of course, available to ambassadors when they want to speak to him or her directly, any secretary of state.

But it's not usual for an American ambassador to be sending off e-mails to the secretary of state. We use our own communications system in the State Department and you send in cables, either for the secretary of state or any other official. You usually designate who that should be for.

I think there's a misunderstanding of how the communications system works in the State Department by some of the people asking the question.

BERMAN: When you were ambassador did you have the secretary of state's e-mail?

BURNS: You know, I was ambassador to Greece for President Clinton. And I worked for Secretary Madeleine Albright. I worked for her before but I didn't routinely send her e-mails.

We have a classified system in the state department. When I was in Greece as ambassador, I would send classified cables to the State Department intending for, sometimes the secretary of state to read them. But more often than not, since the secretary can't read every cable that every ambassador sends, you send it for the assistant secretary or undersecretary of state.

I think these questions just completely missed the reality of how, in a modern bureaucratic complex, people communicate with the secretary of state.

BERMAN: Nicholas Burns, thanks for being with us. Really appreciate it.

BURNS: Thank you very much.

BERMAN: We have a whole lot of news this morning. Let's get right to it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CLINTON: I really don't care what you all say about me. It doesn't bother me a bit.

REP. TREY GOWDY (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: You need to make sure the entire record is correct --

(CROSSTALK)

REP. ELIJAH CUMMINGS (D), MARYLAND: You asked for the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Well, that's what we would have. What do you have to hide?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you ever talk to Ambassador Stevens? That is a yes or no question, Madam Secretary.

POMPEO: You have an increase in request, and yet no increase in security.

ROSKAM: Here's basically what happened to their request.

CLINTON: Congress never fully funded the security requests. I've lost more sleep than all of you put together.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The search terms means terms. What search terms did you use?

CLINTON: I did not --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What were the date parameters?

CUMMINGS: I don't know what we want from the you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was such an obviously partisan hearing.