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New Day

Nine Killed, Dozens Hurt after Quake; Trump Steps Up Attacks on Ben Carson; V.P. Biden Explains Emotional Decision Not to Run; Trump Stumping in Key State of New Hampshire. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired October 26, 2015 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Aftershocks that's still being felt.

[07:00:06] Let's get to CNN international producer, Sofia Saifi, forced to run for cover in Islamabad when the quake hit. What's the current situation?

SOFIA SAIFI, CNN INTERNATIONAL PRODUCER (via phone): Well, at the moment, things are going back normal. I see people out in the road are going back into their homes. Outside, up and down the avenue.

The main thing is that people are scared. They don't know whether they should go back inside. Things are going back to normal.

However, we are now getting reports -- people are injured. We are finding out information. We are finding out at the border, over 100 people have been injured. There has been an emergency declared in all the hospitals of that city.

We do not have any exact number of people dead or injured. Like I said, communications are still down and not reliable. Communications are still down. In the southwest of Pakistan, in the apartments in (UNINTELLIGIBLE), we know there has been damage. They're mud houses. People who do not have properly constructed homes, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) have collapsed. But thankfully, we do not have any casualties being reported from that region, either, so far.

Back to you.

CUOMO: Look, the most reports of no injuries that we can get, the better. Please stay safe where you are. Let us know about aftershocks and let us know about information as it starts to come in. We'll check back with you, Sofia.

Now again, this quake in Afghanistan but felt in Pakistan, India. Yes, they're all close. They share borders there. But it's going to be significant in terms of getting a real sense of what happened here.

So let's go to New Delhi, India. That's where Ravi Agrawal is. He felt the shocks, as well.

Ravi, coms, communications, on the best of circumstances and days, are slow. How long do you think it's going to find out what's going on, and what's the worst you've heard so far? RAVI AGRAWAL, CNN INDIA BUREAU CHIEF: Well, Chris, just to be clear,

here in India, we actually felt the tremors quite strongly. They were intense, and they were felt for more than a minute, which usually is a bad sign when it comes to quakes like this.

When do we expect to get coms back? We've been struggling to reach people in Afghanistan for the last hour. We're about 90 minutes into this earthquake now.

But I also want to give you a little bit of historical context here, Chris. You mentioned the 2005 earthquake in Pakistan, which -- the epicenter of which was near the one that we felt today.

Now, in that earthquake, tens of thousands of people were killed. The strength of that earthquake was a 7.6. Today's is a 7.5. And that earthquake was about 15 kilometers deep. Today's is 212 kilometers deep.

So, to give you a sense of historical perspective, the 2005 quake, for more serious, also in areas that were more densely populated. So hopefully, today, the casualties that we're going to begin to learn in the coming hours won't be as bad as what we saw in 2005.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: That certainly is our hope, Ravi. And we'll stay on this story and bring you updates as we can as the information emerges from that region here on CNN. Thank you.

Turning to politics now, Donald Trump lashing out. The brash billionaire on the attack as he headlines a rally in New Hampshire this morning. He's taking aim at rival Ben Carson, who made some controversial remarks himself, comparing abortion to slavery.

CNN senior Washington correspondent Joe Johns live in Atkinson, Ohio, where Trump is expected to take the stage quite soon.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Michaela, Atkinson, New Hampshire, and a full hour already gathered here at a country club, waiting to see Donald Trump. The back story is he is being tested now, trailing Dr. Ben Carson in the polls in Iowa. He is sharpening his attacks, calling Ben Carson a low-energy person, questioning what a Seventh Day Adventist is.

Let's listen to a little bit of what Trump had to say about Carson on "STATE OF THE UNION" with Jake Tapper over the weekend.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think Ben Carson is a very low-energy person. Actually, I think Ben Carson is lower energy than Jeb, if you want to know the truth. We need strong energy. And I am talking about Ben. I did talk about Jeb, because I thought Jeb was going to be the frontrunner. Obviously he's no longer the frontrunner, so I probably won't talk about him so much anymore.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNS: About the only thing Carson has said is that his energy levels are just fine.

Still, Trump is taking fire from some other directions, including Senator Marco Rubio, who has called his positions on immigration absurd. Perhaps a reality check is that, in recent polls, seven out of ten Republicans think Trump is the most electable candidate. More on all of that later in the program.

Chris, back to you.

[07:05:15] CUOMO: Well, as you said, he is getting tested. How will Donald Trump respond over time now that he's slipping in the polls? We're going to go back to that live event to get a glimpse of the new Donald Trump in light of these polls. We'll take you to it.

However, let's get some perspective, in the meantime, about another big name, Vice President Joe Biden, deciding obviously, not to get into the ring. Biden himself, in an interview with "60 Minutes," explaining that decision once and for all.

Let's bring in CNN's Jeff Zeleny in our Washington bureau. Jeff, what did you hear in there that kind of put meat on the bones of what we've been speculating about all these weeks?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Chris, good morning.

I think we saw what was going into the vice president thinking. He made it clear he believed that he still thinks he would be the best candidate. He still wants to be president, of course, but we got a new window into that very personal decision, that conversation that he had with his son, Beau, before he died. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Some people have written that, you know, Beau, on his death bed, said, "Dad, you've got to run." And it was this sort of Hollywood moment that, you know. Nothing like that ever, ever happened.

Beau, all along, thought that I should run and I could win. But there was not what is sort of made out as kind of this Hollywoodesque thing that, at the last minute, Beau grabbed my hand and said, "Dad, you've got to run," like "Win one for the Gipper." It wasn't anything like that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: So with Biden on the sidelines now, Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders were head-to-head this weekend in Iowa. Sanders was calling himself a principled progressive. And he was reminding Democrats that he supported gay rights and other issues long before it was politically popular. But Clinton was urging Democrats to pick someone who could do more than simply fire up liberals, but someone who can win. And Chris and Alisyn, of course, she believes that is her. ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Jeff, stick with us, if you would.

Because we want to talk more about all of this. We also want to bring in CNN political commentator and Democratic strategist Paul Begala. Paul is a senior adviser to a pro-history -- pro-Hillary Clinton super PAC. She's not history; she's making history, Paul.

PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Those of us who support her hope she makes history.

CAMEROTA: Another thing that's happening at this moment is that Donald Trump is up early in New Hampshire, and he is about to have this live event, which we will dip into. There's the podium, which is always a very exciting live shot. And as soon as he takes that, we will go back and listen to what he's talking about.

But in the meantime, Paul, this weekend, he said something interesting. Donald Trump explained why he's being divisive, basically, he explained, it's a choice. It's a calculated choice. Listen to how he explained it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP (via phone): I'm being divisive right now because I want to win. I know how to win. That's what I have to do. Ultimately, if I do, I'm going to be a great unifier, George. I will be a great unifier for the country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: So Paul, he's being divisive now because he believes that's how you win and, by the way, that has been bearing some fruit for him. But he won't be like that as a president.

BEGALA: Right. Just trust me. I think it's remarkable. He is such a charismatic guy. He's so talented, and yet he's very divisive. He has the highest negative ratings of anybody in the Republican Party.

And right now, the really interesting race is in Iowa, which Jeff knows better than anybody, and the Iowa Republican caucus voters have been an enormously evangelical base. As many as 60 percent in some surveys are Christian evangelicals.

And Trump is sliding there against Dr. Ben Carson. It was just so interesting with Jake Tapper yesterday that Mr. Trump insinuated, it's like -- I don't get his religion. Well, those Iowa evangelicals get Dr. Carson's religion, and I think they really like what they hear. That -- to me, that's a really interesting contrast. Dr. Carson, while he says really incendiary things, somehow I don't thing has the same divisive, perhaps, manner.

CUOMO: Well, look, we get what's going on, Jeff, when Donald Trump says "I'm a Presbyterian," you don't get more down the middle of the road than that. He's suggesting that, to some, Seventh Day Adventists are seen as being on the fringe because of their reflection of what day the Sabbath is and, you know, some of the foreshadowing that was done in that church. That's neither here nor there. What is the risk to Trump by going after everyone's nice guy candidate within the GOP ranks?

ZELENY: I think he knows exactly what he's doing, just like he's known what he's been doing all along here. And I think this does resonate with some evangelicals in Iowa. Paul's absolutely right. Social conservatives make up a critical part of the Iowa caucus electorate on the Republican side.

And I do not think that people still know a lot about Ben Carson here. So I think by Trump pointing out that he is a Presbyterian, by saying that Ben Carson is a Seventh Day Adventist, I think we're going to see somewhat of a whisper campaign here.

In fact, I was talking to a Republican in Iowa who's a pastor, who's very tight into Republican politics over the weekend. And he said that he's already starting to hear this sort of a whisper campaign about, you know, is Ben Carson really an evangelical?

[07:10:15] So I think this is just the very beginning of that. So it's always important, the kind of flyers you see under your windshield on Sunday when you come out of a church service.

I promise you that this is going to be an issue for Ben Carson going forward. Now I do not think that it's enough to take him down, by any respect, because he is popular there. People like his demeanor. People like his outsider status here. But this is on the forefront of something that is going to be a challenge for him, and not just Donald Trump.

Ted Cruz is also a very big threat to the whole situation in Iowa with Ben Carson. He has a huge pastor network across the state. So those are the three men to keep an eye on right now in the Republican caucuses.

CAMEROTA: Paul, you talked about Ben Carson making incendiary comments. He made some controversial comments this weekend, comparing abortion to slavery. So listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: During slavery, and I know that's one of those word you're not supposed to say, but I'm saying it. During slavery, the slave owners thought that they had the right to do whatever they wanted to that slave. Anything that they chose to do.

And, you know, what if the abolitionist had said, you know, "I don't believe in slavery. I think it's wrong. But you guys do whatever you want to do."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Paul, is that a successful line in Iowa, at least?

BEGALA: I think among Iowa Republican caucus attendees, yes. It's so interesting, because his manner, his bedside, you can see why he was such a successful doc. In addition to his skills as a surgeon, he's got this lovely bedside manner, but in that bedside manner, he's saying the most remarkable things.

This is the same guy, by the way, who used slavery analogy to compare healthcare to slavery. Obamacare was like slavery. America is like Nazi Germany. He says remarkable things, but he says it in such a calm way. It's fascinating to me.

CUOMO: All right, Paul. So we're going to see the next phase here of Trump versus everybody else. Here he is live, Atkinson, New Hampshire, taking the stage. Let's open up the sound.

TRUMP: ... by a lot. CBS came out with these monster polls, and for days, they're covering one poll in Iowa. They just keep hitting me with it. and if I would have won it, like I have been doing -- and I have other polls in Iowa where we are leading and big. But they keep hitting me with the one poll. You're going to find out about the media someday, folks, they are the worst. I will tell you, they are the worst.

Oh, these people. And, you know, it's interesting. CBS came out with a poll yesterday which was amazing. In New Hampshire, do we love New Hampshire? Now nobody is going to mention it, so I have to. We have CBS, which NBC is not happy about, but they gave me such a bad introduction with Katy, whatever her name is. I have to do my -- that's what you have to find.

What you do is, if they don't give it to you, you've got to give it to yourself. Does that make sense? Do it. Just do it. Don't worry about it. They'll say he's terrible; he's a horrible human being. Who cares, right?

So in New Hampshire, a very special place. And by the way, they asked where would you like to do this? Because they don't do all these town halls. It's two hours on the NBC "Today Show," which is a great show, and I love Matt. Of course, after the interview, I probably will walk out and say he's terrible. But we love Matt, right? Matt's a good man.

So in New Hampshire, listen to this: 38-12. Now, that's CBS. So, Katy Tur, why don't you mention that, Katy Tur? You don't mention that.

I'm telling you, seriously, it happened three or four days ago. And it was, like -- it's a crummy newspaper in New Hampshire. A terrible newspaper, actually. And terrible. They do a poll. And it's like a few hundred people.

If you take ten people and screw around with it, you'll have a bad result. So here's a good one.

Listen, South Carolina, an unbelievable place, we are killing it, 40 -- 40 to 23. OK. So I think 40 to 23, I almost like the 38-12, I mean, that's even better. Right? You know, the 12 is down -- down the tubes. ABC/"Washington Post," a big one just announced on Friday -- I have to announce these because the press refuses.

By the way, if I were down, it would be headlines all over the place. I'm sick of it. Every state, every national, one crummy poll. And it wasn't even that bad, and it's all I hear.

Washington Post/ABC, 32 to 22. And Gravis, 41. Gravis just came out, 41. So I mean, we -- and I could go on and on, but I'm not going to do it. Because we want to talk about other things like Bush, like Carson, like Hillary. Oi, Hillary.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Boo!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Boo!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Boo!

[07:15:11] TRUMP: Oh, I can't take another Hillary. Hillary. How bad is it? What a mess. She's always in a mess. You notice, they can never be just run the country, like -- it's always a mess. You know, think of it. You know, I don't want to go back into the past, but, let's do it.

But there are always problems. Just run the country. We have a country that's in such serious trouble. We need somebody that can go to China and say, folks, it's time. It's time. You can't keep taking our money. You can't keep taking our jobs. Terrible.

So we'll start with Bush, and let's just go. Right? Nice guy, really is. You know, I said low energy. By the way, Carson is lower energy than Bush, I don't get it. I saw him being interviewed; he's lower energy than Bush. He's a nice guy. He's not going in -- you know, these Chinese negotiators, they come in, they're fierce. Fierce. Remember, I said blood coming out of somebody's eyes? These people really have blood. I mean, they see you. They want your jobs. They want your money. They want your base. They want your country. I mean, they want everything.

And we need the right people. You need somebody with the right temperament. They are not going to be dealing -- you take low-key people. Low-key people. Bush said, "I don't like Mr. Trump's tone." We have people, their heads are being chopped off in the Middle East. And he's worried about tone. We need tough tone. Believe me, it's time. It's time.

So, Bush, you've seen what's happened.

CUOMO: What Donald Trump wants to say, he, once again, is going through how terrible the polls are except the ones that he likes, of course. And he is cueing up into the crosshairs, his new big three. He's still got Jeb in there. Ben Carson, Dr. Carson certainly added to the mix as, of course, is Hillary, who he introduced with an "Oi."

Let's bring back Jeff Zeleny and Paul Begala. Jeff, this is, of course, what we expect.

But tell me this little accent on this. This is a town hall that is going to be, in part, marshalled into NBC News coverage when he's on this morning. He's going to do an interview with Matt. And that was a beautiful window. Right after the interview, he'll say Matt is terrible, but he likes Matt. That's good for Matt Lauer.

And then he's going to open it to voters in New Hampshire. And this is what he's saying when he's going to be on NBC's air. Take us through the lens of thought there.

ZELENY: Well, Chris, I think it sounds like he's gaming the refs here a little bit. I mean, Donald Trump loves to, you know, tell reporters that, you know, he's watching you. Every time I run into him, he'll remind me, he's like, Jeff, I have seen you out there. Good stuff. Good stuff.

But then, when you're sort of not in front of him, he likes to critique it. The job of a reporter, of course, is to not make a candidate happy. It's to report what's happening out there.

So I think, at the end of the day, voters actually get tired of all the poll talk. Because those New Hampshire voters are the ones who are answering their phones when pollsters are calling them. They want to hear issues and things. So it works for a while.

But I think that he cannot talk for an entire hour about his polls. That's not what those savvy voters of New Hampshire want to hear. They want to ask him some questions and hear some answers here. So I think that, I'm not sure, as we enter a new phase of this campaign, this -- all this poll talk is going to be received quite so well.

CAMEROTA: Paul, it sounds to us like he's just playing the hits. He started with the media. They are the worst. "Ugh, these people." And then he went on to, "But I know you want to hear about Jeb Bush and Ben Carson. So let's go." He says Carson is lower energy than Bush here. He said that over the weekend.

He said the Chinese, how is Ben Carson going to deal with the Chinese? Because these people are the ones who really have blood coming out of their eyes. He's just going back to all of his favorites. What did you hear there?

BEGALA: He is, but it's what I didn't hear that you will hear, I promise, which is immigration. I believe the immigration issue is why Mr. Trump has succeeded among Republican primary voters. And that issue, he has taken the most extreme position on.

Remember, when he announced, he said that Mexican immigrants, many of them, I think he said, were rapists and murderers. It was just -- to a Democrat like me, that was just horrible. But to Republican ears, people were frustrated with what they believe is an immigration system that is unfair to them and out of control. That's his -- that's his calling card. And I'm not advising Mr. Trump, believe me, but every time he slides in the polls, I think he's going to become more strident about immigration.

CUOMO: Though every time he has a problem, Paul, with doing that. And it leads to a slip. It doesn't -- it doesn't open the window of possibility to that opposite positive message from someone in the GOP, coming out and saying they aren't all scrambling over the border. Most of them are about visas.

[07:20:07] CAMEROTA: Marco Rubio has tried that.

CUOMO: But I'm saying, it's about timing, right, in the campaign? It wasn't right early. But if he shows to show attrition in the polls based on this negative message -- that's what it is -- then is there a window of opportunity? But then he balances it. A shot across your bow, Begala. He was like these super PACs are bad. We should all be getting rid of them. I'm getting rid of mine. Everyone should get rid of them. Were you shaking in your boots when he said that?

BEGALA: I would love to live in a world with no super PACs. I support Hillary, and the super PAC I work for supports Hillary. She wants to do away with them. But you have to have an even balance.

CUOMO: Nobody wants to unilaterally disarm, Begala.

ZELENY: Bernie Sanders does not have a super PAC.

CAMEROTA: And Donald Trump said he's disavowing his. How about if Hillary does the same, if she doesn't like them, Paul?

BEGALA: If Hillary tells us to shut down, we will, but she won't. Because the Koch brothers and all these -- NRA and all these special interests, I'd be somebody on the progressive side. What we need is campaign finance reform.

What we need is a way to try to lessen this power or even do away with the super PACs completely. But you can't say the Koch brothers can have -- put a billion dollars nearly, into a campaign and that Democrats can't raise money on their own either. It's not -- that's not a fair thing. I want to live in a world with no super PACs. How do I live in a war with no nuclear weapons, too. But if Mr. Putin has them, I want Mr. Obama to have them.

CAMEROTA: Paul Begala, Jeff Zeleny, thanks so much for sticking around with us, as we dissected everything this morning. Great to see you guys.

And Zeleny raised a good name there. Bernie Sanders does not have a super PAC. I think he's campaigning only on peanut butter and jelly of passion, right now. But we are going to talk to him, because you know, he, too, as you start to get the numbers, as you get the momentum, you have to take the practicalities and reality of opposition politics into play.

And sure enough, Bernie Sanders is doing it his own way.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

CUOMO: But he's talking policy differences with Hillary Clinton. You know what that's going to mean: return fire. We have a former adviser to the Clintons joining us next. You'll want to hear this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:25:41] CUOMO: We're in a new phase, my friends. Bernie Sanders is now starting to draw differences, contrasts, criticisms of and with Hillary Clinton. He's going after the Democratic frontrunner, not with cheap shots, but on positions and maybe positions based on political expediency. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Today, some are trying to rewrite history by saying they voted for one anti- gay law to stop something worse. That's not the case. That agreement is not now, nor has it ever been, the gold standard of trade agreements. If you agree with me about the urgent need to address climate change, then you know, immediately, what to do about the Keystone Pipeline.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Now, I'm drawing distinctions with how he's doing it. Not to be partial to Bernie Sanders, but to be fair. Right? You can go after the person, specifically, and say she's low-energy or whatever you want to say, or you can talk positions. That's what he's doing.

But how does it hit and what's the fair response? This morning, Mark Penn, former adviser, president of Stagwell Group and former adviser to both President Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton, joins us.

Brother Penn, good to have you here this morning. Let's talk some Bernie and Benghazi, shall we? Starting with Bernie up there. He is not making it personal. He's talking about positions. Where do you feel they hit the mark and miss the mark?

Looking at DOMA, Hillary has said the president then, Bill Clinton, and she both saw it as a way to stop the Republicans from doing a constitutional amendment defining marriage as between a man and a woman. Bernie says no, not really. It was one anti-gay law, basically, defending another. You?

MARK PENN, FORMER ADVISOR TO BILL AND HILLARY CLINTON: Well, look, I think -- I think Bernie Sanders has gone, in a short time, from some political chivalry in the debate to a bit of negativity. And I think that his comments are being interpreted as trying to draw sharp contrast.

When, in the debate, this played itself out pretty clearly. The contrast work that he changed his position on guns. And he seemed a lot more vulnerable than Hillary did, whether it's over the trade agreement or how her attitudes had evolved on gay marriage over time. Everybody knows everybody's attitude more or less, evolved over gay marriage, including President Obama. So I think that he's got limited mileage here that he's going to be able to make up with this new strategy.

CUOMO: Well, but negativity, you can't go through a campaign and never have any negativity, Mark. I mean, you know that. You give people brilliant advice on exactly this angle. You know, at least he's not saying anything personal about Hillary. And in fairness, to say that the Defense of Marriage Act was a way of stopping a constitutional amendment that would have been worse, I've never even heard that before.

Do you think that that's going to really tick with people or they're going to see DOMA for what it was?

PENN: I think she has incredible support among the gay and lesbian community. I really don't think that's going to get a lot of mileage. I think, really, Bernie Sanders, to have a successful campaign, has got to reach out to the African-American, Latino communities.

His support base is primarily young. You know, it's primarily right now in Iowa and New Hampshire. His strategy really has to be -- to be able to get to older voters that Hillary has, to more women voters that Hillary has.

And I don't think this strategy is going to -- going to work or be particularly effective. He's trying to make sure right now that people don't forget him. Because I think Hillary has a tremendous amount of momentum going here. And he's got to break it if he's going to continue to show these kinds of poll numbers.

CUOMO: So you don't think the DOMA thing, you don't think the Keystone Pipeline and the differences in their opinions, that that's going to resonate with people?

PENN: Look, I think we'll see what kind of ads he runs. I doubt he's going to waste a lot of early air time on this. I think they're testing now the strategy differences, and they're going to see whether or not it plays in the polls. He's still got pretty good positions in both Iowa and New Hampshire. Like I said, he's got to expand his base.

I think both candidates really have to do more to establish what their vision is for the country at this point. I think bickering back and forth over who had what position when is frankly unlikely to yield anybody a lot of votes.

CUOMO: All right. You can call it bickering. Let's transfer to Benghazi. The big political salvo that's going to come out of that hearing, in my expectation -- could be wrong -- is that she lied when she found out about Benghazi. She said it was one thing to her friends and family, like another thing to the American people. Fair criticism?