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Trump Attacks Carson; Viral Vidoes Helping or Hurting Police Conduct? Aired 8:30-9a ET
Aired October 26, 2015 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[08:33:13] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Donald Trump says he is a counterpuncher -
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: I have heard him say that.
CUOMO: Which would imply that he only hits you when you hit him, except when he doesn't, and then he just hits you like what he's doing with Ben Carson right now. Why? Well, Carson is ahead in the Iowa polls, so Donald Trump is started to deal with it. Ben Carson says, don't worry, I'm not going to fire back. Which one of these two strategies will work and, if at all, better? Let's bring in CNN political commentator Ana Navarro, good friend of Marco Rubio but supports Jeb Bush in the GOP race, also known as a hedge (ph). And CNN political commentator and host of "The Ben Ferguson Show," Ben Ferguson.
Thank you, my brother and sister. It's good to have you.
BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning.
CUOMO: So, Ana, Trump says, listen, I have to attack because that's how you win. What do you say?
ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, it's worked for him so far. And not only does he attack because he thinks that's how he wins, but because we cover it. He has got to cause controversy every week, every two weeks, that keeps us talking because he's not putting money into paid media. He's not running a conventional campaign. He really relies on earned media coverage. That result of him creating controversies and picking fights, whether it's with Megyn Kelly, Jeb Bush, Ben Carson or, you know, whomever on Twitter, whatever stranger on Twitter may be irritating him that particular day, or Chris Cuomo.
CAMEROTA: There - there you go. Ben - as he's been on the receiving end of it.
FERGUSON: Yes.
CAMEROTA: Ben -
FERGUSON: Yes.
CAMEROTA: To Chris' point, you know, Donald Trump has told us, I only hit back. You know, I'm a counterpuncher. But this weekend on Jake Tapper's "State of the Union," he did go after Ben Carson in a seemingly unprovoked attack. So let me play for you what he said about Ben Carson.
[08:35:00] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I like Ben, but he cannot do with trade like I do with trade. He can't do with a lot of things like I do. He's very, very weak on immigration, and I'm very strong on immigration. I think - Ben Carson's a very low energy person. Actually, I think Ben Carson is lower energy than Jeb, if you want to know the truth. Ben doesn't even go to Iowa that much, and he's doing well in Iowa?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: What do you think of that line of attack?
FERGUSON: Yes. I think that's the first time I've seen Donald Trump truly be nervous in this campaign. And I think it's because he can't figure out how in the world a guy that's a 180 from him, in style and rhetoric, is somehow beating him in a place that he thought he was going to stay at the top of the polls the entire time. And so if you're Ben Carson right now, keep doing what you're doing. There is no reason to get into a war of words with Donald Trump.
I also think Donald Trump knows he's in a unique situation because I think he sees Ben Carson as a very viable VP candidate if he gets the nomination. They both can play to the outsider role. They both have their own people that absolutely love them. But, ultimately, Donald Trump knows, if you're losing, you've got to go out and start slugging and throwing bombs at other candidates, otherwise you're going to be the best second or third or fourth place candidate, a lot like Bernie Sanders is to Hillary Clinton right now, and that is not what Donald Trump wants in Iowa.
CUOMO: It's one of those realities that everybody says they don't want it to be negative.
CAMEROTA: Yes. Right.
CUOMO: But that's what works.
NAVARRO: Well, Ben, maybe - Ben, maybe Donald - maybe Donald Trump will be Ben Carson's VP.
CUOMO: Yes, that would - that would be an interesting ticket.
FERGUSON: It could go either way.
CUOMO: Let me ask you something, Ana. Let's be honest, negativity is often what drives a campaign. It's about how you do it. Is it worth contrasting what Donald Trump is doing right now, he's weak, you know, he - you know, on the issue sides he'll say, ah, well, you know, we're very different. But on the personal side, he's much more detailed, versus Bernie Sanders. He's going after the specific positions of Hillary Clinton, not so much her or her demeanor or character. Does one work better than the other? Is one more worthy than the other?
NAVARRO: You know, it's still completely different camps and I think it's two completely different people and personalities. And what I would advise anybody running for president is, be yourself because it's a long race.
FERGUSON: Yes.
NAVARRO: And at the end of the day, it gets really exhausting and tiring to try to beat somebody else. So if you're Donald Trump, be Donald Trump. I think that's who he is. I think Ben Carson, the soft- spoken Ben Carson we are seeing, not responding and not taking the bait on these personal attacks, is who the man is. And the Bernie Sanders you're seeing is who he is. If you try to play roles, if you try to do acting jobs on the American people, sooner or later it will catch up to you.
FERGUSON: And it -
CAMEROTA: Ana, I want to stick with you -
FERGUSON: And it always looks awkward.
CAMEROTA: OK, go ahead, Ben, quickly.
FERGUSON: No, it always looks awkward when you try to be something that you're not. And I think, look, one of the big differences here is, Bernie Sanders sees vulnerabilities in Hillary Clinton's records and her policies, so therefore he attacks her policies. When you see Donald Trump attack Ben Carson on style, I think it's because he realizes, we're very close on policies. I can't attack him per say on direct issues with policy because we are very, very close. So I've got to remind people that he's boring and dull. I think voters ultimately though, when they go in to vote for somebody, they don't care so much if you're boring and dull if you have good ideas.
CAMEROTA: Ana, I want to play for you what Jeb Bush said over the weekend about really how unpleasant he finds all of the mudslinging with Donald Trump. So listen to Jeb here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If this election is about how we're going to fight to get nothing done, then I don't want anything - I don't want any part of it. I don't want to be elected president to sit around and see gridlock just become so dominant that people literally are in decline in their lives. That is not my motivation. I've got a lot of really cool things that I could do other than sit around being miserable, listening to people demonize me and me feeling compelled to demonize them. That is a joke. Elect Trump if you want that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: Ana, he doesn't sound like he's enjoying this process.
CUOMO: Or a healthy admonition to the party.
CAMEROTA: I mean he thinks he has a lot of those cool (ph) things he could do.
NAVARRO: Look, I think - I am - I'm in Houston right now. I'm in Houston at a Jeb Bush donor retreat. I can tell you that the Jeb Bush I saw last night is pumped up, is excited, is recommitted and refocused, is telling us he's going to work harder. I don't know if they put something in my Texas barbecue, which is entirely possible, but I can tell you that I'm pretty - I'm feeling pretty happy and confident today. And that comes from having a happy and confident candidate. Absolutely, yes, it's frustrating. The guy's a policy guy. He's an idea guy. And he's having to deal with a - with, you know, a Donald Trump who's trying to insult and divide his way into the presidency. You have got to admit, this is a very abnormal, surreal political landscape that we're going through.
CAMEROTA: Yes, I think we all admit that.
FERGUSON: Look, if you're Jeb Bush -
CAMEROTA: Ben.
FERGUSON: If you're Jeb Bush, you've got to be irritated. You've got to be irradiated for two reasons. One, you're supposed to be winning this thing and you're not. Two, your campaign is struggling right now and you're trying to figure out how to reinvent yourself. And also, Donald Trump is flat out beating you. And that has got to be concerning. So if he's miserable, he's probably miserable because he's not leading, he's not in the top two, and it's his campaign right now is in serious trouble.
[08:40:17] CAMEROTA: Yes. Yes. Ben, Ana, we've got to leave it there.
NAVARRO: Well, Let me tell you this, nobody - nobody - look, we're in Texas, Ben. We love Texas. Nobody here is miserable. We're all even wearing boots, dude.
CAMEROTA: That - wow!
NAVARRO: Took me a long time to get them off last night.
CAMEROTA: Wow. They are bullish on Bush in Texas. Ana is -
NAVARRO: Almost - almost had to call 911 to get my boots off last night, Ben.
CAMEROTA: Wow, that -
NAVARRO: Get me a - a boot pull.
CAMEROTA: That is some insight, Ana.
FERGUSON: We need to get you one.
CAMEROTA: Ben, thank you. Great to talk to you guys. FERGUSON: Thanks.
CAMEROTA: Let's go to Michaela.
MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Viral videos, they are common these days, right, but aren't they linked to a sharp rise in murder rates? One top official says yes. We're going to take a look at that coming up.
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[08:45:00] PEREIRA: All right. We start off your Monday five things to know with breaking news from the Mideast. A deadly 7.5 earthquake hit south Asia, the epicenter northeast of Kabul, Afghanistan. Reports now say as many as 29 people killed. 12 of them were schoolgirls killed in a stampede following the quake.
Donald Trump attacking rival Ben Carson after word broke that the neurosurgeon is now leading in Iowa. Trump slammed Carson as low energy and questioned his immigration policy and religious beliefs.
A candid Vice President Joe Biden telling "60 Minutes" he didn't get into the presidential race because he simply didn't think he could win. Biden does say he thinks if he had launched the campaign earlier, he would have won.
Five people killed, one still missing after a whale watching tour boat sank off the coast of British Columbia. 21 people on board were rescued. Still no word on what caused that boat to go down.
The NBA and fans are mourning the death of Minnesota Timberwolves coach, Flip Saunders. The 17-year NBA coaching veteran lost his battle with cancer at the age of 60.
For more on the five things, be sure to visit newdayCNN.com.
Alisyn?
CAMEROTA: OK, Michaela. Are cell phone videos making police less aggressive on the job? The FBI director says they're contributing to climbing murder rates. We'll bring you both sides of that argument next.
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PEREIRA: Dozens of cities across the U.S. are reporting sharp increases in murder rates. This year, there have been suggestions police have been more hesitant to help slow crime because of concerns about videos -- viral videos; a claim backed up by the head of the FBI.
[08:50:04] Here to discuss it, CNN political commentator and Morehouse College professor, Marc Lamont Hill. Also here is CNN law enforcement analyst and retired NYPD detective, Harry Houck.
Harry, I'm curious. After you hear the FBI director making these comments, saying that he agrees that this is what we're seeing -- What are you hearing from officers on the street? What are they telling you?
HARRY HOUCK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: That's -- what the FBI director said is definitely a factor here, but I think the biggest thing that I'm hearing from officers that I know is the fact that police officers want the politicians to back them until an investigation has finally ended.
The fact that -- police officers want the benefit of the doubt at first before the investigation's ended, all right, and they also want backup with the politicians. You know, just be able to come out and say, listen, we're investigating this case right now and we're going to find out the evidence and once we've found out the evidence in this case, then we'll be able to tell you exactly what happened.
PEREIRA: Marc, what do you think? What do you make of the FBI's director's comments?
MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: First, it's important to say that he said this could be a factor.
PEREIRA: It could be.
Hill: It's also important to say that he said that there are - Right - and that there are a multitude of factors that also play into this. Just because the FBI director says it, doesn't make it true. What we need is evidence. We need data, we need research to substantiate this claim. We simply don't know yet.
But for me, I think it's important for us to say, hey, what does it mean for police to no longer operate with impunity? Some officers are used to operating in a way where they have no oversight, no critique, no challenge and now, there are people who can see what they do and I think it's a good thing.
PEREIRA: It's concerning if we see a pendulum effect of going from doing too much and not doing anything and we don't know if that is the case. But we do know - and let's look at murder rates. I think we have a graphic. Murder rates are up in all of these major cities. You look at, specifically in Chicago, we know that the month of September was the deadliest month on record. 60 murders. The mayor there attributed the spike in violent crime to the fear Chicago cops have of perpetrators and becoming the next headline. He says some of his cops, he believes, have gone fetal. Some call it "the YouTube effect." Reaction?
HOUCK: I think all he's doing is trying to blame somebody else for his own problems. The fact that Chicago has had a high crime rate for way before this controversy even started, and he's just looking for an excuse and another director for him to blame it on.
PEREIRA: But the fact that it's the deadliest month on record.
HOUCK: Yes, it's the deadliest month. But I'll tell you what -- It's because Chicago has had bad problems for a long time, and it's their policies that have created that. Look what happened -- We had police officer Holder in New York City was killed in the line of duty chasing the perpetrator, all right? In the face of all this rhetoric, this officer still chased his perpetrator down and gave his life for the people in this city.
So I sit here and I talk and other officers will sit here and talk about, you know, well, maybe we shouldn't do anything. And I've said that to myself in the past. But, you know, when the -- when something comes up and you say to yourself, you see a crime being committed, you throw all that out the window and the police officer just reacts anyway.
PEREIRA: Marc, I'm curious, though. What about this notion that we seemingly are in a culture where officers have to be looking over their shoulder because there's concern that there's a bystander who has a camera. That's going to leave a sense of unease with the officers.
HILL: My question to the officer, hypothetically, would be, why are you uneasy with oversight? If you're doing nothing illegal, nothing below board, why should you be concerned that someone has a camera on you? I think too often we've excused police for behavior that doesn't follow the rules, that is below board, because they get the job done or because their jobs are dangerous. If there are police officers, to Rahm Emanuel's point, who are operating in the fetal position, who are not going to do anything because they're frustrated with the oversight, then they shouldn't be police officers. If you're not going to do your job, you shouldn't take the job. I think that's a very simple thing -
(CROSSTALK)
PEREIRA: So perhaps maybe this is taking fine tuning? Maybe this is taking fine tuning. It's taking an adjustment for us to get used to this new culture where body cameras are present, cell phones are - cameras or present. There's cameras everywhere. Is it time for police to adjust their policies to that? Other industries have had to react to videos being everywhere.
HOUCK: Well of course. I mean, the police department is evolving. We're going to wind up having cameras in every car, we're going to have all police officers wearing body cams. But I think what's really big here is I think police officers are sitting back and waiting to see what happens in the Freddie Gray case. You've got three police officers who are on video who took this man down, all right, and were indicted. What were they indicted for what? I have no clue. I don't see any crime there for those three officers. Now the other officers involved, I don't know anything about. But they're sitting there looking at the Freddie Gray case, there's video and there's nothing indicating the police officers did anything wrong there and they saw indictments. That's what cops are afraid of.
PEREIRA: They could be afraid of that. But we certainly know they have got to take these things case by case. That's the most important thing they have to do.
Marc Lamont Hill, Harry Houck, always a pleasure to have you here. Tough conversation. We'll see if any progress is made.
[08:54:53] We have "Good Stuff" coming next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CUOMO: "Good Stuff." Listen to this. These two cops in Cedar Park, Iowa, they recently pull over a guy for a busted taillight. When they do, they discover something worse. Three young girls rolling around in the back, no car seats. But they recognized the guy and that made all the difference.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: They're trying to get things going. They're going in the right direction and to issue him three citations for each children would just devastate him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: Protect and serve instead of tickets, officers Gower and Hawkins, you know what they do? Bought him car seats.
PEREIRA: Come on now.
CUOMO: Yup. And the entire shift split the cost. But the officers say it's not about the money.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: Money isn't the issue. It's the issue of, can you help them?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: See that? Cops, good people doing a very tough job.
PEREIRA: I love it.
CUOMO: Thank you, officers.
CAMEROTA: Oh, that's so great. We have some more "Good Stuff" for you. It's a double "Good Stuff."
CUOMO: What?
CAMEROTA: Our own stage manager and jack of all trades --
PEREIRA: Philly!
CUOMO: Oh! Hey! (INAUDIBLE) Hey!
CAMEROTA: -- and his wife, Rosalia, welcoming to the world, Marco Pietro.
CUOMO: Oh!
CAMEROTA: Tipping the scales at 9 pounds, 12 ounces.
CUOMO: That's what I'm talking about.
CAMEROTA: 21 inches long.
PEREIRA: Baby!
PHIL, CNN STAGE MANAGER: Now he's in size 2 diapers. Three weeks old.
(LAUGHTER)
CAMEROTA: That is a proud father.
CUOMO: He gets that from you.
