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Will South Carolina Deputy Keep His Job?; Obama Defends Police in Chicago Speech; U.S. to Begin 'Director Action on the Ground' Against ISIS; Trump Tells Iowans: 'I Don't Like Being Second.' Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired October 28, 2015 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: ... chest with a closed fist.

[07:00:05] SHERIFF LEON LOTT, RICHLAND COUNTY, SOUTH CAROLINA: I don't want anybody to think just the fact that she did strike an officer, that's justifications for some of the actions that he took.

NIYA KENNY, STUDENT ARRESTED AFTER INCIDENT: We've heard about his reputation and we've heard that he's a really, I guess I could say, dangerous man.

SAVIDGE: The second student arrested, 18-year-old Niya Kenny, says it all started when the 16-year-old refused to hand over her phone to the math teacher, and that's when Fields was called in to remove her.

Kenny says she was crying, screaming at the officer, Fields then arresting her for disturbing school.

KENNY: He say, "You got something -- you got something you want to say? You want some of this, too?"

And I was just like, "No," and I just put my hands behind my back.

SAVIDGE: In 2007, Army veteran Carlos Martin filed a lawsuit against Officer Fields, claiming that he used excessive force when questioning him and his wife about a noise complaint. The jury ruled in Fields' favor in 2010. But Martin claims race was a factor in his arrest.

CARLOS MARTIN, SUED BEN FIELDS IN 2007: When I saw the video, it just reminds me of all the nightmares and what I've been going through for ten years.

SAVIDGE: A student in the classroom who posted this video wrote that Fields is, quote, "a cool dude and not racist."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Black people are attacked.

SAVIDGE: Still, many parents of the Richland II School District are outraged, as are school officials.

CHIP JACKSON, SCHOOL BOARD MEMBER, RICHLAND COUNTY DISTRICT TWO: This individual, we've made it clear that we do not want him back on our school grounds and in our schools, and that's been a permanent request that we've made.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SAVIDGE: The sheriff has said that, when he saw those videos from the classroom, that made him absolutely sick to his stomach. He has not said how he is going to rule on the case of Officer Fields, but it's never a good thing when your boss says what you do nearly made him throw up -- Chris.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Well, the situation, no matter how you look at it, is disturbing. Right? So Martin, let us know what happens down there.

In terms of the analysis, we have what happened before the video. We have what else could the teacher have done? And then we do have what the officer did and could have done. And we look at him through the lens of what he did in that video and also what he has done before.

It is important to note that this is not the first time this officer has been accused of excessive force. Army veteran Carlos Martin, as you heard, he had been involved with this officer. He says he recognized Ben Fields the instant he saw that video, because Fields treated him the exact same way, he says, ten years ago. Carlos Martin joins us now.

Now, it is important to note, Mr. Martin -- thank you for joining us here -- your case against the officer was dismissed. There is another case pending against him, but with that as context, tell us, what was your experience?

MARTIN: Basically, I was coming home from work. I just got done doing a uniform inspection. Officer Fields was already in the neighborhood. I was going to my apartment.

When we crossed paths, I acknowledged him by nodding my head. I was going to put the keys in the door, and I heard a car peel off. The Officer Fields is running towards. He said, "Hey, you, come here."

Like, "Who, me?"

He's like, "Yes, you." He's like, "I'm out here for a noise violation."

I said, "It couldn't have been me. I have a police officer that lives above me, and my mother was home watching the whole situation." I handed him my information. He didn't understand the information I handed him, because I gave him a paper license. I called him "Dude." He got upset for me calling him dude. He threw me down, and he started beating on me.

CUOMO: Hold on, sir. So he says, "Show me your I.D.," at some point. MARTIN: Correct.

CUOMO: You say, "Here it is." You show him a paper license? Temporary I.D.?

MARTIN: No, I showed him all the registration that I had, but I lost my picture license in Germany, and I gave him the paper license from the Alaska DMV.

CUOMO: So he looks at it and he says, "What is this?"

MARTIN: Correct.

CUOMO: And you explained what you just did here?

MARTIN: Correct.

CUOMO: How does the "dude" come up?

MARTIN: Well, he -- I was like, "Dude, if you would just calm down," because he was like, "What the..."

CUOMO: He was already exorcised, you're saying?

MARTIN: Correct.

CUOMO: What was his demeanor, in your opinion?

MARTIN: He was -- I guess he didn't understand me. He was angry. I'm not sure why he was angry or whatever else, but I was like, "Dude, if you could just calm down. I have German tags on my car."

He didn't want to listen to me. He's like, "I'm a Richland County officer of the law. Don't call me dude."

I'm like, "Why?"

He was like, "Well..."

I said, "Hey, you addressed me by, 'Hey, you.'"

He's like, "That's because I don't know your name."

And I was like, "Well, I don't want know your name, either." And that's when he slammed me down on the ground and started beating on me.

CUOMO: So you guys start getting words. He then initiates. You did not initiate any action toward him?

MARTIN: No. Not at all.

CUOMO: And what did he do, once he tried to do? I mean, you're a big guy, you're trained with military service. What did he do to you? MARTIN: Well, at the time, I was only, like, 190 or whatever

else. Obviously, I've gotten to the gym after that. But what he did to me is started making all these racial comments. We started documenting.

CUOMO: So he puts you on the ground and there's racial comments?

MARTIN: Correct. And that was all done on the internal affairs report, which is already proven.

The neighbor goes to get my wife at the time, Tatiana, she comes out. She takes pictures of the situation. He calls for backup. All the women and children that were watching, used to come to football games, whatever else, and they watch Officer Fields beat on me. He gets nervous.

CUOMO: How many times does he hit you?

MARTIN: Oh, man. Countless times. He gets nervous. He basically calls for backup. I understand why they...

CUOMO: Were you fighting?

MARTIN: Not at all. I was laying on the ground, as you can see, protecting myself, just curled up in a ball.

CUOMO: So why do you think he felt the need that he had to keep hitting you?

MARTIN: I don't know. I know he used a whole can of mace, because I didn't act like a regular civilian with that, because I'm military trained. I closed my eyes, hold my breath. He goes, "Oh, now you're on drugs."

"I'm not on drugs. What are you talking about?"

When the backup came, they attacked my wife. Because he said, "Get her, black" -- you know, "A" or whatever else. They attacked her, threw her against the car, handcuffed her, picked her up while she was handcuffed and slammed her into the ground, face first.

[07:05:07] CUOMO: So now what happens? What happens to the case against you?

MARTIN: Basically, we went through the lawsuit or whatever. Tatiana had a chance for her case to be presented. She's the one who didn't win her case. She didn't win her case, because they said that she was too close when she took the pictures that you see. And the judge actually admitted to knowing someone on the jury, who was on the case, which is illegal.

CUOMO: So your ex-wife's case got dismissed because of what you just said, some technicality. What about your case?

MARTIN: I never had an opportunity to go to court. What happened was, my lawyer basically tricked me out of my case. He basically told me that if I dropped -- accepted the charges from the police, that we would go sue for all the other charges as far as me losing my marriage and me losing my job and everything else, and that these were the bigger facts, or whatever else, and just drop this charge, and that he would represent me pro bono.

Well, once I dropped that charge and whatever else, and I had written it in the letter to him, he's like, "Oh, I'm charging you $20,000."

CUOMO: All right. So that's somewhat outside of this -- what matters in terms of our analysis.

MARTIN: Correct.

CUOMO: So he arrested you. What happened to the charges against you?

MARTIN: We were found not guilty of all charges. The judge gave us a direct verdict for not being guilty. They basically almost completely -- committed perjury on the stand for lying about the deleted pictures that they deleted. Because we took more than two pictures. She took up to -- between 10 to 15 pictures, but they deleted evidence from the racial comments. He admitted to all of it already.

CUOMO: So the headline is, you were arrested, but you were found not guilty on all charges. It didn't go to trial, you're saying? You're saying the judge took the case and gave a directed verdict?

MARTIN: Correct.

CUOMO: Which means that his acknowledgement of the facts meant it didn't need to go to anybody else.

MARTIN: Correct.

CUOMO: All right. So then you didn't wind up suing this officer. But so now that takes us to today.

MARTIN: No, I am still wanting to sue the officer. My case is just at the United States Supreme Court. We're appealing that.

CUOMO: So you're going a different way?

MARTIN: Correct.

CUOMO: You believe when you saw this video, you're not surprised, this isn't about the circumstances as presented to the officer? You believe this is just his instinct of how to act in a situation?

MARTIN: Absolutely. And I'm not even surprised that his actions is that. I'm more surprised that Sheriff Lott continues to allow him to continue to do the same thing. The reason why he's at the school that he's at is because he beat me up, and then they moved him to the school and put him around children. CUOMO: Why would they take an officer who had a force issue and

put him in a school?

MARTIN: That is the question of the day.

CUOMO: Now, there is all this hearsay on the ground there. You know, basically, at this point, you have to almost dismiss it as gossip. Cops get cases against them. It happens. They're dealing with bad situations. It's not to excuse their behavior, but it's like part of this -- part of the job sometimes.

MARTIN: Correct.

CUOMO: Kids there say he has a reputation.

MARTIN: Absolutely.

CUOMO: In the neighborhood where you live, is that true? Is this something that followed this particular officer?

MARTIN: Well, the children in the neighborhood all watched him beat on me, so it's no surprise that he did the same thing or was not afraid to do it in the school.

CUOMO: And you say he definitely was making racial comments?

MARTIN: Absolutely. It's already documented. He admits to the racial comments. And my thing is, me as a soldier and my wife as a soldier can go to foreign lands to protect the laws and what we believe that's right in America. Who protects us when we come back home?

CUOMO: The idea that, well, this man can't be racist. You know, he had a girlfriend who's black. What does that matter to you?

MARTIN: That doesn't mean anything. People are people. I don't see color or whatever else. But people can still make racial comments. Black people can be racist against black people, so what does it mean?

CUOMO: What do you think should happen in this situation?

MARTIN: I definitely think that, you know, he should be removed from his position. But not only that, I think instead of complaining about the problems, let's come up with a solution.

And I think the solution should be bridging the gap between the police officers and the public. And how do you do that? I think police officers should have body cams before they go make any type of arrest. I think they should do retraining about how to deal with the public.

But at the same time, I think the public should be offered classes about the different laws and how to encounter this situation. Is everyone going to go? No. But I think they should be made available and start doing things where the community and public can do things, the police department can do things together.

CUOMO: What would you have been done if you had been called and you were working at this school, and the teacher says, "I can't get this kid out of the classroom," and you're a police officer? What do you think you would have done?

MARTIN: I think it's more to the conversation. I don't think that it takes Officer Fields to flip a child, not even after you flip a child, to throw the child across the classroom and then handcuff her. That was very unnecessary. It's the difference between being a police officer and a bully.

CUOMO: Carlos Martin, thank you very much for sharing your story. I know it's not a story you like to tell. And we appreciate it, because we need to understand as much as we can, as many different perspectives as we can get. Appreciate it -- Alisyn.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Actually, I'll take it here, Chris. Obviously, if you want to get in on this conversation, you can post your comments on social media.

But also, with so many officer-involved shootings making headlines lately, President Obama essentially walking a bit of a tightrope. In a speech to police chiefs, he said, America is safer because of their efforts, but the president also addressed concerns about racial profiling and excessive force.

Michelle Kosinski is live at the White House. Quite a conundrum for the president.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And Michaela, right, you got it exactly right. I mean, you're speaking before police chiefs, so you could hear him being extremely careful. And when he talked about racial bias, he said it can go both ways, and the relationship between police and communities is a two-way street.

[07:10:08] He also seemed to be addressing those controversial comments made by the FBI director last week, when he said, because police are under such scrutiny now, some might be holding back some on the job, and that could lead to more crime.

Well, the White House has disputed that. And the president in his comments said, well, you can't cherry-pick facts and rely on anecdotes. On guns, you know, the president has said, too, that he's going to keep speaking out about it, and he used some stats of his own. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Since 9/11, fewer than 100 Americans have been murdered by terrorists on American soil. Four hundred thousand have been killed by gun violence. That's like losing the entire population of Cleveland or Minneapolis over the past 14 years.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KOSINSKI: You know, without using his name, he also answered the

comments made by Donald Trump that President Obama is trying to take away everybody's guns. The president denied he's trying to do that and urged people to use their votes to show that they want universal background checks and to keep assault weapons from falling into the wrong hands -- Alisyn.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Michelle, thanks so much for that.

Well, the U.S. to begin stepping up attacks on ISIS in Syria and Iraq, including taking, quote, "direct action on the ground." Defense Secretary Ash Carter telling the Senate Armed Services Committee the strategy shift will mean more airstrikes and Special Operations raids.

CNN's chief national security correspondent, Jim Sciutto, is live in Washington with more.

Jim, after all of the debate, the long debate about this, now it seems to be moving quickly.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: No question. This is something that has White House has resisted since the start of military action against ISIS. In fact, the president assured it would not happen, but now hard options on the table for a more forward role for U.S. troops in Iraq.

This is the way the defense secretary broke it down on the Hill yesterday. He calls it the three "R's." He says that there will be more raids like the one we saw last Thursday with U.S. Delta Force involved in that raid to free those hostages, where a Delta Force operator died.

Also, more operations targeting Raqqah. This is ISIS's stronghold on the ground in Syria, and Ramadi, one of its main strongholds on the ground in Iraq, just west of Baghdad. U.S. forces supporting local forces on the ground.

Here is how Secretary Carter laid it out on the hill yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ASH CARTER, U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: We won't hold back from supporting capable partners in opportunistic attacks against ISIL, or conducting such missions directly, whether by strikes from the air or direct action on the ground.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: That direct action includes U.S. Special Forces supporting local troops on the ground, like we saw with the Delta Force and those Kurdish commandos on Thursday.

But also, you heard from the chief of staff, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff on the Hill yesterday, saying that they might also forward deploy U.S. advisers with Iraqi units on the front lines. These could be ground controllers calling in airstrikes or advisers up there helping them take the fight to ISIS. That puts -- that would put, if the president approves these options, U.S. troops much closer to combat, in much more danger.

And remember, the danger now on the ground there, not just combat from ISIS, et cetera, but you have Russian warplanes in the air, bombing really anyone who threatens the regime of Bashar al-Assad. That includes some forces the U.S. supports on the ground. It's a very dangerous theater, and we saw that danger last week when one U.S. soldier was killed, the first in four years on the ground in Iraq. And they're going to continue to face that kind of danger -- Alisyn.

CUOMO: And Jim, I'll take it. And as we've both been hearing, they're saying there are guns pointed all directions on the ground there. A very complicated situation.

All right. Another complicated situation, China not backing down on its claims in the contested South China Sea. The Chinese authorities have now summoned the U.S. ambassador after a Navy warship passed within 12 nautical miles of China's controversial man-made islands there. A maneuver China's foreign service minister calls extremely irresponsible on the part of the U.S., but the U.S. says there will be more patrols near the island chain soon.

PEREIRA: Happening overnight, a bit of a scare in the air for an American Airlines flight crew. A laser light trained on the cockpit of an Airbus A-321 from Phoenix to San Diego, 168 passengers on board.

Thankfully, that plane landed safely. There were reports the pilot needed medical attention after touching down. That is being denied by the airline.

This is the second laser incident impacting a commercial flight in the area in the last month.

CAMEROTA: All right, well, game one of the World Series is still going on at this hour.

PEREIRA: Oh, is it?

CAMEROTA: Just kidding! The Mets and the Royals battled for 14 hours before Kansas City finally won. Woop-woop! And there was also a lot of drama because a power outage knocked the telecast off the air.

PEREIRA: This is game one.

CAMEROTA: I know. It's a record.

PEREIRA: Can they have more drama?

CAMEROTA: I don't know. Andy, can they?

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS: I don't know. But one thing's for sure, it hurts for Mets fans. It took 5 hours, 9 minutes to complete; and the game finally ended around 1:20 Eastern this morning. [07:15:13] And there were lots of story lines last night, but the

biggest was actually Royals pitcher Edinson Volquez. His father passed away earlier in the day in the Dominican Republic, and there are conflicting reports about whether or not he knew about that before taking the mound.

The Royals say Volquez's wife requested he not know about his father's death until after the game, but a source told ESPN that Volquez found out on his way to the ballpark. Either way, very gutsy performance from him. He allowed just three runs in six innings before leaving the game to be with his family.

Now, lots of drama. Bottom of the ninth, Mets just two outs away from a win, and that's when Alex Gordon takes Jeurys Familia deep to tie the game. It was the first run Familia had given up all post- season. And that one hurt. We would go to extra innings.

Bottom of the 14th, Eric Hosmer is going to end the marathon, sacrifice fly. Royals take a wild game one by a final of 5-4.

Now as for that power outage, guys, it took place in the fourth inning. The game was delayed for about six minutes, because FOX's broadcast truck lost power. After conferring with Joe Torres, the Mets and the Royals agreed to continue the game without instant replay. Viewers only missed one batter before FOX took the international feed.

But, you know, fans not knowing when the game would resume on TV, you know, of course, started freaking out on Twitter. Let's take a look at some of the funny memes that came out of this. This tweet says, "This is FOX right now," with Homer Simpson dumping water all over control panels.

Another tweet said, "Here's a live shot from FOX's headquarters." Apparently, Bill Murray works there.

And my personal favorite from last night, apparently Han and Chewie helped get the broadcast back on the air. They flew the Millennium Falcon in, and they were working on the truck out there in the parking lot, guys.

CAMEROTA: I love Chewie. He fixes things and solves problems.

SCHOLES: Chewie to the rescue.

CUOMO: And also, look, it was a big deal. We all remember the "Heidi" game, you know, for the NFL, where they shifted to "Heidi" before the football game ended. But those in glass houses. You know, problems happen in live broadcasts.

PEREIRA: They do.

CUOMO: You know, we've suffered a few on our show, as well. So I don't want to jinx us.

PEREIRA: Microphone here. Battling feeds. These things happen. CUOMO: We're lucky if we can get the names right in front of us.

Isn't that right, Franklin?

All right. So tonight is the third GOP debate. Will Donald Trump get his mojo back? Will Carson justify the poll pop? And why we may see a huge turn in play on the stage tonight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[07:21:06] TRUMP: Would you get the numbers up, Iowa, please? This is ridiculous. I mean, what is my competition? I mean, I am second. It's not like terrible. But, I don't like being second. Second is terrible to me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: That was Donald Trump, pleading for support in Iowa, ahead of tonight's third GOP debate. A new CBS News/"New York Times" poll shows 71 percent of Republican voters are still undecided today. So maybe begging will work with them.

Let's bring in our CNN political commentators. We have Kevin Madden. He's a Republican strategist. And Paul Begala, a Democratic strategist. Also senior adviser to a pro-Hillary super PAC.

Kevin, let me start with you. What do you think of this new strategy of Trump's called begging?

KEVIN MADDEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, what's not new is that he has constantly pointed to the polls as the reason people should support him. And now that those polls are starting to show a trend line that's going in the other direction, you know, blaming voters for these polls out in Iowa doesn't seem like that smart of a strategy.

Look, I know Donald Trump says he doesn't -- he doesn't get it, but I get it. And anybody who's worked on campaigns -- campaigns gets it.

The voters out in Iowa, these are professional voters. They're taking a look at the candidates and judging whether or not they have the temperament and the vision to be the president of the United States. They're getting to that process now, where they're selecting a leader of the free world. And as a result, I think Trump's numbers are starting to -- are starting to come down.

But, there's still a lot of time here. That 71 percent number that we've seen in "the New York Times" poll.

CAMEROTA: We can put that up.

MADDEN: That is, has to be -- yes, that has to be viewed as an extraordinary opportunity by these other campaigns that the -- a lot of these voters haven't sent in yet. There is a chance for them to go out and grow their support as they get closer and closer to the caucuses and the primaries early next year.

CUOMO: Certainly, that's the only poll number that the rest of the field is paying attention to right now. That and Trump's built-in negative. They don't have the same case with Ben Carson.

Paul, let me ask you something. It seems that what we're seeing with Trump is he's trying to find out how to get into that next gear. Right? And he struggles with the media. He uses the media, because he cherry-picks media. He likes to frequent the places that give him a pass. So, you know, he's struggling with the media. That's about Trump specifically.

How about the party in general? What do you see as a political opponent of the GOP of what is going on within that party that creates opportunity for your side?

PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, they seem to be ignoring the very fine autopsy they did after they lost to Barack Obama the last time. That autopsy said, "We have to do more to reach out to Latinos and other people of color in America, to young people, to women." They seem to be ignoring all of that. Why? Because their voters want them to. They're following their voters, OK? This is not a problem of leadership only in the Republican Party. It's a problem with those base voters, not all Republicans, but those base voters, those activist voters. And what they seem to want most of all is someone who will bash immigrants.

I think tonight in that debate, you're going to see Donald Trump go back to Act I, not Act II. He needs an Act II, but you're right. He's not going to do that. He's going to go back to Act I.

In his announcement speech, he exploded onto the scene with some very incendiary, I think very offensive, comments about Mexican migrants. I think he's going to go back to that. That's a bell he can go back and ring. And, frankly, there's about 25 percent of the Republican electorate who seems to respond very favorably to that.

CAMEROTA: OK, Kevin, do you have that same assessment? Is that what Republican voters want, to bash immigrants?

MADDEN: No. I think Paul is talking about some folks who are very vocal. And I think that there's a larger swath of the Republican electorate that really does care about the future of this country, whether -- how we grow the economy, how we make the nation more secure, how we make it more prosperous. And I think those voters are the ones that are ultimately going to decide who the nominee is.

Tonight's debate, because there is a focus on the economy, does provide a lot of these other candidates, like Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio, Carly Fiorina, those that have said this has been a campaign that's too much about personality, it's too much about Donald Trump bragging about polls, and it's not enough about substance in the direction that we want to take the party and the country.

[07:25:24] This is an extraordinary opportunity for them to show command on the issues and really provide an agenda that is visionary for the party and the country, in a way that helps consolidate that larger swath of the Republican Party that really does care about those issues. And is more defined by what they're for and not defined by what they're against.

CUOMO: Well, we haven't seen that so far within the field, but obviously, that's usually going to be the way forward. But Kevin makes a couple of interesting points.

First of all, the CNBC debate is a tailored debate. And it being mostly about business issues and financial fiscal issues, Paul, it's going to create a challenge for Ben Carson. This has not been a strong suit for him, thus far. But tonight is a test and a chance for him to show how well he'll do.

What do you hear about there being a sea change tonight? Kasich not just speaking off the cuff. This is a new direction for him, saying, enough is enough. It's time to take this race back. We heard the same from former Governor Sununu, and as we all know, he is very plugged in, in the upper echelons, in terms of the intelligence of tactics.

BEGALA: Well, he is a terribly bright guy, Governor Sununu is. And in Houston, I was not at the Bush family retreat, but you know, he's trying to retool and get back into this.

I think Kevin's advice is right. They need to talk about what they're for. The Democrats did in the main. There was a minor tussles between Hillary and Bernie, but mostly the Democrats talked about what they were for, and they prospered.

I don't think they're going to listen to you, Madden. They're not as smart as you. They're going to bash each other.

Dr. Carson seems to not be able to go five minutes without making an analogy to Hitler or slavery. And I'm not quite sure how he will get them. Maybe the capital gains taxes or something. I don't know. You watch.

I went to college with Mike Godwin, who coined Godwin's Law, which is in every debate at some point, somebody raises Hitler or the Nazis, that person loses. Not with the Republicans.

Every time Dr. Carson hits those buttons, which I think are crazy. He moves up. He's moving up. Not despite his incendiary comments, but because of them. And so is Mr. Trump.

So if you're poor John Kasich, a guy who's done, I think, the yeoman's work of trying to run his state of Ohio, he can't get a word in edgewise. He's going to have to say something equally crazy. He'd be better to listen to Madden, but I bet you he...

CUOMO: Did you hear Begala kind of lacing in there, that Republicans like talking about Nazis there. Did you hear? Did you hear him lace that in there, that that works well on the Republican side? CAMEROTA: Very quickly, guys, very quickly, we have to talk

about, Kevin, I'll pose it to you. What's happening with Hillary Clinton in Iowa. She has a 41-point lead now over Bernie Sanders. Is that about Biden dropping out or Benghazi?

MADDEN: I think it has more to do with Biden dropping out. Now it has become essentially a two-person race. We always saw in the previous polls where Hillary Clinton had a lower -- a lower ceiling was because a lot of her support maybe sometimes, 15 to 20 percent of that was going to Biden.

And that has now swung back towards Hillary Clinton. I think the atmospherics have changed for Hillary Clinton, in a way that is helping her right now. But the fundamentals that she has on questions about her trust, on questions about her relatability with voters, I still think those are there. They're going to be problems for going ahead.

CAMEROTA: OK, guys. Paul, Kevin, thanks so much for helping us preview what we're going to see tonight. Thanks, guys. See you soon.

PEREIRA: Were those jazz hands you did to wave good-bye to those?

CUOMO: I was going for Martha Graham.

PEREIRA: OK. You achieved it.

All right. More news ahead for us here. And a question, do police officers belong in the classroom? That question being debated after the violent arrest of a student in South Carolina. We're going to discuss it, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)