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Mystery Deepens Into Cause of Russian Plane Crash; GOP Campaigns Lay Out Debate Demands; Former Senator & Actor Fred Thompson Dead at 73; Kansas City Royals Win World Series. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired November 02, 2015 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The airliner broke into pieces in midair.

[05:59:07] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a lot of questions about the airworthiness of this plane.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: More than half of the bodies have been recovered at this stage.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are a number of issues that could have affected this plane. And terrorism has not been ruled out.

DR. BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We need to mature in the way that we do these debates.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They want the debates to be more substantive.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Smaller groups on the stage, better questions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the past, the campaigns themselves have negotiated with the TV networks.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We've got to take care of ISIS, but we're afraid to have a tough question.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The world's 2015 world champions, the Royals.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A world champion for the first time since 1985.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota and Michaela Pereira.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Just explaining George Brett trivia there. Big part of the news. Big part of the news.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Absolutely.

CUOMO: Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Monday, November 2, 6 a.m. in the east. And yes, first, the good news. The Kansas City Royals are No. 1.

Their first World Series title in 30 years, dispatching the New York Mets in decisive fashion, 7-2 last night. We're going to have plenty on that and the whole George Brett conversation we have here, we'll have with you again.

But first, we do have new information on this mysterious downing of a Russian passenger jet over the Sinai Peninsula on Saturday. Investigators now have the black box, so we will have fresh reporting ahead.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Russian officials say the plane broke apart in midair, its debris scattering over eight square miles. Terrorism has not been ruled out. And there are travel warnings to avoid certain air space. This as the bodies of some of the 224 people on board arriving in St. Petersburg. CNN's Arwa Damon is live in Cairo now with the very latest.

What do we know, Arwa?

ARWA DAMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn, such a difficult situation for those families awaiting the bodies of their loved ones. But perhaps adding to the frustration is the fact that the more information we're receiving from different officials, the less we actually know about what happened.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAMON (voice-over): Metrojet airline is holding a press conference in Moscow this morning, saying Russian passenger jet Flight 9268 could not have broken apart in midair by itself.

This amid new reports the passenger jet broke into pieces as it flew over the remote Egyptian countryside. The fuselage disintegrating around 20 minutes into the flight from an Egyptian resort town to St. Petersburg Saturday, according to Russian aviation officials.

The airline company says the only explanation would be an external influence.

Overnight nearly 150 of the 224 passengers killed on board arriving in Russia. Mourners of the mostly Russian victims gathering at St. Petersburg Airport where the air jet was supposed to end its journey. Aerials of the crash site show mangled wreckage, strewn across nearly eight square miles.

But Egypt's prime minister says there are no indications that anything out of the ordinary was about to happen on this aircraft. Egypt's civil aviation minister adding, there are no reports that the airline had faults. Checks done before takeoff did not reveal anything, and no one received any S.O.S. calls.

Still, questions linger as to why Flight 9268 hurled to the ground in the remote part of Egypt, in clear weather, an area plagued by a violent Islamic insurgency. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can certainly see whether there were any

sign of a bomb or a missile striking the aircraft. They leave very distinctive markings. And that should be able to be eliminated very quickly.

DAMON: The co-pilot's ex-wife telling Russia state-run news, he complained before the flight to their daughter, wishing for a better technical condition of the plane. Most passengers...

(AUDIO GAP)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DAMON: And Alisyn, the Egyptian military at this stage, a source there has also been telling us that the area that the plane went down in does not contain any sort of militant activity or militant groups that have the capabilities to bring down an aircraft traveling at that altitude, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Arwa, one more thing. We understand that they did recover the black boxes. Any word on the ground of when they will get the data out of them?

DAMON: No, we don't know just yet. Egypt does not here, in country, possess the capability to analyze the data and the duration of time it's going to take to extract information from them is going to depend on the damage that has been done at this stage. So it could literally be anywhere from a few days to a few months.

CAMEROTA: Oh, my goodness. All right, Arwa, thanks so much for all the information this morning.

Joining us now is David Soucie. He's our CNN aviation analyst and former FAA accident investigator and inspector.

David, thanks for being with us. Can you hear me?

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: I just lost her.

CAMEROTA: David -- I think we might be having issues with David's ear piece. David, let me know -- give me a wave if you can hear me. All right. We will get back to David as soon as we resolve our technical issues. Let me go over to Michaela right now. We'll be right back.

PEREIRA: All right. We'll turn back to the crash of that airplane in a moment, but let's give you some other news. Representatives from most of the Republican presidential campaigns meeting over the weekend to demand greater control of upcoming debates. This follows last week's CNBC debate, in which the angry candidates blasted the RNC and the network for their handling of it.

So what came of that meeting? Athena Jones is live in Tampa with the latest. Oh, to be a fly on the wall in that meeting.

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Tell me about it. Good morning, Michaela.

This is pretty remarkable to see the campaigns uniting, not just against the TV networks but also against the Republican National Committee, which has been negotiating the debate format on their behalf.

[06:05:01] The meeting came, of course, after a lot of campaigns complained about the handling of the CNBC debate. The bottom line here is they want more control over the debate format. They want more substantive and more focused debates.

Now, the RNC wasn't invited to last night's meeting, but Ben Ginsberg, a top Republican lawyer and debate negotiator was there to help facilitate the discussion. Take a listen to how he summed up some of the campaign's main concerns.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEN GINSBERG, REPUBLICAN ATTORNEY: Campaigns have been able -- should be able to get information about the details of the debate far sooner than they have this cycle. So if you have that transparency and accountability, you can talk to the sponsors about formats and opening and closing statements and the way they put up graphics on the screen and even who the moderators are and the types of questions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: Now, we know the meeting lasted more than two hours. We're told it was a collegial meeting. But the campaigns didn't agree on everything. Here are some of the demands the campaigns plan to make for future debates. They want a two-hour time limit to those debates. They want a chance for every candidate to make opening and closing remarks of at least 30 seconds per candidate. They also want editorial control of the graphics that are put up on the screen while the candidates are speaking, and they want equal speaking time for each candidate.

Now, one thing the campaigns didn't all agree on was whether to hold just one debate instead of these separate first-tier and second- tier debates. But the campaigns did agree there would be a group conference call with each debate sponsor to discuss the format the campaigns would then decide whether they wanted to take part.

Now one more thing I want to mention here that's important. Ben Carson's campaign manager, Barry Bennett, who organized last night's meeting, said that this new plan will not affect the very next debate. That's the debate on FOX Business Channel, and that's taking place just over a week away from now. This new plan won't affect that debate. It will start with CNN's next debate in December -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Athena, thanks so much for all of that. And we'll get back to all the conditions from the candidates shortly in the program. But right now we want to get back to our top story, and that's the Russian plane disaster and what brought it down.

Joining us is David Soucie, our CNN aviation analyst, former FAA accident investigator and inspector. Good morning, David.

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Good morning.

CAMEROTA: You've looked at the evidence, now at least that that exists. Why do you believe that this plane broke up, exploded, basically, in midair?

SOUCIE: Well, if you look at the pictures that we have of the accident site and the report of the distance, the area that's being covered, right now I have all the source. We're looking at some satellite images for CNN, and we should have that very shortly. But basically, this is spread out so far that it really is indicative of some kind of in-flight breakup at a very high altitude, as well.

CAMEROTA: Yes. We believe that's it's an eight-square-mile debris field. But why -- why does that steer you away from mechanical malfunction? Couldn't something mechanical have happened to cause this debris field?

SOUCIE: Well, that's very, very rare. The only one that comes to mind at the moment is Flight 800 when we thought originally there was a bomb or some kind of missile that hit that airplane and found out later it was a mechanical failure. It was a tank that was empty and ruptured and had an electrical failure inside, causing it to act like a bomb.

Well, that's been mitigated. Airplanes now that have empty tanks are filled with nitrogen to make sure that that can't occur. So barring that, there's really no example of an airplane that broke into this many pieces and that far of a distance from a mechanical failure.

CAMEROTA: David, one of the interesting juxtapositions is to look at the debris field from MH-17. That, of course, was the airplane that was shot out of the sky over the Ukrainian area where there are militants. That has been deemed to have been shot down.

If you look at both, on the left side is MH-17. On the right is this Russian Metrojet, David. They look, I mean, to my untrained eye, almost identical. What does that tell you?

SOUCIE: Yes. It's very, very similar in debris field. The difference, the critical difference is, if you look at the photographs themselves, on the MH-17 accidents, in those photographs you see a lot of small holes in the skin of the aircraft as we look around at the various pictures.

So those small holes came from a missile that -- a buke missile that actually explodes and sends small diamond-shaped pieces throughout the aircraft. It's designed to disable the aircraft.

This incident today or yesterday is actually much more severe. It's smaller pieces. And the pieces themselves are not -- don't show those small pieces. Whatever this was was big, and it hit hard. So this is a little bit different, although it's very similar in the debris field. CAMEROTA: That's interesting to hear. Because we just heard

Arwa Damon's reporting that she says that, according to Egyptian officials, at least, that there was no militant activity in the area that they were flying over. They were at 31,000 feet. I mean, that would have to suggest that somebody had basically a surface-to-air missile.

[06:10:13] SOUCIE: Well, either surface-to-air missile or there was something on board the aircraft that caused this to happen. And I think that's important, again, to go back to the fact that a missile would have left shrapnel throughout the aircraft. They don't explode -- they don't hit the aircraft and explode from the inside out. They break up as they approach the aircraft and dissipate. So it's a little bit different as far as how that missile would hit. It looks more like, to me, that there was something on board the aircraft that caused this to happen.

CAMEROTA: Let's look at the map of the countries right now over which there is a warning to airlines not to fly. So you can see in the red, this is where the travel warnings exist. These are war-torn, obviously countries where there's lots of -- a hot bed of activity. Then there are travel alerts over places like Egypt and Turkey.

Is this always the case, David? Or is this a result of this crash?

SOUCIE: It's not always the case. It is -- some of it is a result of the crash, however, there's a system in place called the NOTAM, the notice to airmen. That system relies on the state, that has the activity, the military fighting or whatever might be going on. That state has to be aware of that and then notify that to IOTA or to ICAO or the alphabet soup groups in the aviation industry. But those groups then have to put out notice to airmen.

So these restricted flight zones are reliant on that information coming from the very country where the airplane is taking off.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

SOUCIE: Which it may not be the best way to do that. That's something we've been looking at since MH-17 as a way to improve that.

CAMEROTA: What does this mean for Americans who want to vacation in Egypt or Turkey? I mean, these are popular tourist spots.

SOUCIE: Well, these NOTAMs are available online. And I recommend, if you're going to go to these places, that you look at them yourself. They are -- they're designed for the pilots to -- to be informed of what's going on. But it's a great source of information for people traveling in these areas to get a feel for what's going on in those areas before they travel. I think it's very important that we are educated travelers when we go into these regions.

CAMEROTA: Last on this point, we just also heard from Arwa that they have recovered the black boxes but no idea when they'll be able to get the data? I mean, why not in the next few days?

SOUCIE: Well, the data, I suspect that they probably have that data or will have within the next day or two. What will happen, though, is because -- at this point, everything in this investigation is being treated as a criminal investigation.

So you have the lines of custody. You have ways to make sure of the fact that no one sees it that's not supposed to. They are very cautious about releasing anything that could hamper a criminal investigation, should it turn into that. So they're very careful about releasing that information. We should get something about the actual facts, what's on the blocks. But we're not going to get conclusions from the investigators until they've had plenty of time to analyze all of the data.

CAMEROTA: OK. That will certainly -- hopefully be revealing. David Soucie, thanks so much for all the information. Great to get your expertise.

Let's get over to Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Alisyn. Here's what we know. The U.S. is going to put ground troops in Syria. But what does that really mean? How many? What will they do? What won't they do?

CNN senior Washington correspondent Joe Johns live at the White House with more on the plan -- Joe.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR Washington Correspondent: Good morning, Chris.

Well, a little more detail from a senior Pentagon official. We are told a little more about the timetable they're expecting. They say these Special Operations forces will be going in within weeks to a month. They'll be on the ground in a headquarters environment, a specific location, less than 60 days at a time.

Now, the administration has spent the weekend trying to make it clear that, according to them, this is not a change in policy. Rather, it is a continuation of the campaign against ISIS.

Listen to Secretary of State John Kerry.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KERRY, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: ISIL is a modern threat that we have to respond to. And President Obama has made a very straightforward and simple decision, entirely in keeping with his originally stated policy. That we must defeat and destroy DAISH. It is not a decision to enter into Syria's civil war.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNS: Now, these special operators are supposed to have five objectives, including helping the Iraqis take back Ramadi, enabling added forces in Syria, securing the border between Syria and Turkey and degrading ISIS communications and actions in Syria and Iraq. So a big task for them on the ground and, allegedly, supposed to start within the next month.

Back to you, Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right, Joe. Thank you so much for that.

A passing to tell you of. Actor and former Tennessee Senator Fred Thompson being remembered this morning. He died of lymphoma in Nashville Sunday. Thompson was first elected to fill the Senate seat of Al Gore in 1994 and briefly ran for president in 2008. But he's also being remembered for his role as a no-nonsense district attorney in the hit TV show "Law & Order." Here's a look back.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[06:15:20] FRED THOMPSON, ACTOR/FORMER SENATOR: You know, one day, this chair is going to be empty.

PEREIRA (voice-over): He was known for his larger than life persona on screen...

THOMPSON: Everybody says that.

PEREIRA: ... and Capitol Hill alike. Fred "Freddy" Thompson first garnered national fame as an attorney during the Watergate scandal, leading the line of questioning that uncovered the audio taping system in the Nixon White House Oval Office.

THOMPSON: I was walking the walk when others weren't even talking the talk yet.

PEREIRA: A commanding presence, towering over his peers at 6'6", Thompson parlayed his notoriety into a successful movie and TV career.

THOMPSON: Advocacy is warm-blooded. Enforcement has got to be cold-blooded.

PEREIRA: Most notably in his prominent role as the no-nonsense, straight-shooting district attorney on "Law & Order."

THOMPSON: It's my office and my decision.

PEREIRA: In 1994, Thompson won a special election to fill Al Gore's vacant U.S. Senate seat in Tennessee and then was reelected for a full term two years later.

THOMPSON: I'm running for president of the United States.

PEREIRA: He ran unsuccessfully for the Republican presidential nomination in 2008...

THOMPSON: I thought I was going to be the best actor on the stage.

PEREIRA: ... but is most remembered for being a man of the people.

His family, mourning the death of the dynamic southern statesman, releasing a statement reading, in part, "He enjoyed a hearty laugh, a strong handshake, a good cigar and a healthy dose of humility. Fred was the same man on the floor of the Senate, the movie studio or the town square of his home."

The folksy former U.S. Senator and actor lost his more than a decade-long battle with lymphoma at 73 years of age.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: He was just here. He was just on NEW DAY, I think, like, three weeks ago.

PEREIRA: September 14.

CAMEROTA: September 14. He had such a big personality. He was fun to be around.

PEREIRA: He really was.

CAMEROTA: Wow.

PEREIRA: And a proud Tennessean, born in Alabama. And never forgot where he came from.

CUOMO: Strong guy. That's why not many people knew what he was dealing with. And it is easy for people to get caught up in the "Law & Order" stuff and his charisma and forget where he started.

He really was talking the talk before -- walking the walk before anybody was even talking the talk when it came to Watergate and corruption.

Him being brought in from the outside was because a lot of people didn't want to ask those questions of power in the Seventies. And Fred Thompson was one of the team of U.S. attorneys that really took it to power, took it to the administration. He will be missed. Thoughts and prayers to his family.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely.

All right. Well, back to this top story. You need to hear about this. E. coli outbreak leading Chipotle temporarily to close all 43 of its restaurants in Oregon and Washington state. At least 19 cases, three in Oregon, have been linked to Chipotle locations. Eight people have been hospitalized. Health inspectors say the number of those infected could grow.

CUOMO: Kansas City, celebrate. Your Royals have done something that hasn't happened in 30 years. A World Series championship. Andy Scholes has more on the epic game five comeback in this morning's "Bleacher Report." They certainly showed that one through nine, they had the team that was on top. No question about it, Andy Scholes. ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS: Absolutely, Chris. You know, this

Royals team, this lineup just relentless. Every time you'd think they were down and out in a game, they found a way to make a comeback.

The Royals, first team ever to win three games in a World Series in which they trailed in the eighth inning or later. Game five was their best comeback left. Matt Harvey, he was pitching a masterpiece. He told the manager, Terry Collins, he was staying in this game to pitch the ninth. Well, in the ninth, ran into some trouble.

Eric Hosner, double to left right here, made it 2-1. Harvey would leave the game in this next play, the one Mets fans will remember for a long time. On the ground out, Hosner bolts for home, and Lucas Duda's throw is wide, ties the game at two. We go to extra innings.

Then in the 12th, Christian Colon, in his first postseason at- bat, singles in Jarrod Dyson. That gave the Royals the lead. The floodgates would open from there. K.C. wins it, 7-2. Catcher Salvador Perez, your World Series MVP. A victory parade will be Tuesday in Kansas City.

In the most entertaining NFL game maybe ever, Eli Manning threw a career-high six touchdowns against the Saints and lost the game. Drew Brees topped Eli by tying the NFL's single-game record with seven touchdown passes. The 13th combined touchdown passes are the most in league history for a single game.

The teams combined to score 101 points, the third highest total in NFL history. The Saints would win this game 52-49 after the Giants committed a face mask penalty with just five seconds left that gave the Saints the game-winning field goal.

And guys, I'm guessing there are a lot of grumpy people walking around this morning. Chris, your Jets lost to the Raiders, the Giants lost that epic game to the Saints, and of course, the Mets lost another heartbreaker.

[06:20:08] CUOMO: Why do you got to bring the Jets into this?

CAMEROTA: He's really spelling it out.

PEREIRA: Yes, yes.

CAMEROTA: He's really rubbing it in.

PEREIRA: Not a good weekend. No.

SCHOLES: It doesn't get worse. It doesn't get worse.

PEREIRA: No. For him.

PEREIRA: For the rest of us, we're good.

CUOMO: With a smile on his face.

PEREIRA: How are you feeling?

CUOMO: I feel like giving Scholes a beat-down is how I'm feeling. Look, you've got to give it to the Royals. They show that they were the best team. They won.

And the Giants, you know, I'm a Jets fan. I'd love for us to score that many points in two or three games, you know, combined.

PEREIRA: Oh, my goodness.

CAMEROTA: All right. Back to our top political story. As we mentioned earlier, Republicans have this list of new demands they want for future debates. They're taking aim at all of the networks except the next FOX Business Network debate. So what exactly are they asking for? How will this change the entire game? Are their demands realistic? We're going to debate that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:25:28] CUOMO: The whining over the CNBC debate is far from over. The various campaigns actually held their little meeting last night, coming up with a list of proposals on how TV networks -- come on -- should handle future debates.

Let's see what makes sense and what really is just carping. And this is also a question of control.

We have CNN senior reporter for media and politics, Dillon Byers; and CNN Politics executive editor, Mr. Mark Preston.

Mark, I was getting some snickering here on set, because, yes, I was being a lot of pejorative in how I was casting this meeting. But Mark, aren't there real concerns here about how much control the campaigns have over the debate? And then we want to get into what are they actually asking for and are those concerns justified?

MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE EDITOR: Well, right, Chris.

Well, first of all, let's put it in perspective here. You have 14 campaigns with 14 different agendas, who are all trying to get to the same goal. They all want to win the nomination. And what we've seen over the past couple of months is a lot of frustration on behalf of some of these campaigns. Those who were not able to get traction, those who feel like they're unfairly targeted. And certainly, what we saw last week at the CNBC debate seem to have blown the lid.

Now, having said that, a lot of the demands that -- that they agreed to last night are not really demands necessarily. I don't think you'll have media organizations fighting tooth and nail on -- on many of those points. And in many ways, Chris, we're going to go back to how it used to be done.

I have been negotiating debates now since 2006 for CNN with the campaigns. And always in the past it has been directly with the campaigns. This year it has been with the RNC, as well. And I think the campaigns now see that their best path forward individually for them is to try to do it themselves.

CAMEROTA: So then let's look at those conditions. We just put some up on the screen. This is what the campaigns want: the two-hour time limit. Thirty-second opening statements. That's something that many of them press for. Here's one that I don't know how you sort of regulate. Equal speaking time. Then the last one, editorial control of the graphics. Jeb Bush didn't like a graphic that was up during the CNBC debate.

So Dillon, is there precedent for this? Are these reasonable?

DILLON BYERS, CNN SENIOR REPORTER FOR MEDIA AND POLITICS: Yes, they're very reasonable. In fact, they're sort of very modest in scope, especially when compared to what some of the, you know, campaigns were looking for.

We know the Ben Carson campaign was actually looking for some pretty extreme demands heading into that debate, demands that would have turned the debates into something more like forums.

Look, asking for time limits, asking for a certain amount of time to answer questions, these aren't really radical concepts. In a way, you know, the media that sort of descended on Alexandria last night to sort of get -- you know, get the drips and drabs coming out of this debate was somewhat disappointed.

And to get to your point about equal time, how do you -- how do you measure that, gauge that, how do you ensure that happens, the key word coming out of the meeting last night, the key term was parody and integrity.

They don't just want equal time on questions. They want equal substance on questions. And that's really the gist of what's going on here. They're looking for more substantive debate, or at least they claim to be looking for a more substantive debate.

CUOMO: Who do you think controls the substance more, Dillon, the candidates or the questioners?

BYERS: Well, that's a great question. So let's look at the CNBC debate. Ted Cruz gets asked a question about the debt ceiling, and he starts going off about how the media is treating everyone unfairly and asking unfair questions. He was asked about the debt ceiling. That's a substantive question. Right? So that -- that's sort of -- you know, look, I mean, the campaigns have to bear the brunt of this, as well. But I think you know -- I think most people would agree that CNBC did not do, you know, the best job in terms of asking questions that were wholly substantive.

CAMEROTA: And Mark, we understand that none of these conditions will be in effect for the next debate nine days from now. That's the FOX business network debate. There was some suggestion in the "Washington Post" this morning that the campaigns didn't want to press FOX on changing anything, because they were afraid of Roger Ailes. What have you heard? PRESTON: Well, so I spoke to four of the participants last

night. And they said that that was misinterpreted that FOX debate is a week away. In many ways these debates are very complex. They're hard to put together. They're hard to line up. And I think there's an acknowledgement that these campaigns could not exert enough pressure on FOX to get what they wanted so close.

Now, having said that, moving forward, I do believe you think the campaigns are going to try to band together. They're going to send us a letter. They're going to make these demands. And of course, the negotiation will begin. Once we get to January, though, once we get to February, like, literally, all bets are off because at that point, the campaigns are not so much concerned about parody or equality. They're concerned about are they going to survive? Do they have enough money? Can they win the nomination?

CUOMO: Right. And Dillon, not to be a great defense of FOX, but most of these things, as you pointed out, are things that will probably be included in the FOX debate and all the others.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The airliner broke into pieces in midair.

[05:59:07] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a lot of questions about the airworthiness of this plane.>