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New Day

Heat Flash Detected at Time Russian Plane Crashed; Carson Leads Trump in Second National Poll; Obama Takes Steps to Help Ex-Inmates Find Jobs. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired November 03, 2015 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A heat flash seen by an American satellite high overhead.

[05:58:34] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Was this flash part of the plane breaking up or was it something else?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any sort of damage to the aircraft can cause a problem.

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: But it also could have been a bomb. Anything is on the table at this point.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right now, Ben Carson is the man to beat here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Marco Rubio is surging.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Marco doesn't show up to vote. The answer isn't sending someone from one side of the capitol city to the other.

BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: They can't handle a bunch of CNBC moderators.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The president wants to make it easier for ex- inmates to find jobs.

OBAMA: We've got to make sure Americans who paid their debt to society can earn a second chance.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota and Michaela Pereira.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: You can change the clocks all you want. It's still dark out in the wintertime on the West Coast. Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It's Tuesday, November 3, 6 A.M. in the east. And here's the story.

A plane falls out of the sky. Two hundred and twenty-four lives are lost. The mystery only grows. But there is a new clue. A U.S. satellite over the desert detecting a heat flash at the time Russian Metrojet 9268 went down Saturday morning over Egypt's Sinai Peninsula.

CAMEROTA: Now Russian airline officials ruling out human error or technical problems, even though aviation experts insist it's too early to know. So the mystery is deepening as the second planeload of victims' bodies arrive back in St. Petersburg. And that's where we find CNN international diplomatic editor, Nic Robertson. What's the latest, Nic?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn, that heat signature that was picked up over the Sinai Desert, there were several interpretations that could be applied to this. Was it an engine bursting into flames that caused the plane to crash? Was it a fuel tank explosion causing the plane to crash? There was burned plane debris found on the ground. Was this a flash from a terrorist missile hitting the aircraft? If that were the case, though that is deemed very, very unlikely, if that were the case, there would likely be two flashes, one as the missile took off, one as it hit the aircraft. Or was it a bomb on board the plane?

The Russian president's spokesman here says there is no link to terrorism, but this heat signature is a new piece of data in this. Because the other data that there is in the black box data and voice recorders, those are not particularly damaged. They are in the hands, we understand, of the Egyptian authorities at the moment. They will be examined by both Egyptians, Russians, French, Germans. Also an Irish investigation team will be in Egypt, as well, to assist in that.

The Egyptian authorities saying 196 bodies have now been repatriated back to Russia. The -- some of those, 52 of those arriving in the early hours of this morning. And so far for the families here, the very difficult task of identifying their loved ones. Nine bodies, we're told, have been identified so far. Two of them children, both girls, one age 10, one age 14.

Also perhaps some good news, as well. If you can put it in that context for the families. Russian authorities say that perhaps as early as today some families may be able to take their loved ones for burial -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Nic, it is heartbreaking, but I understand that you have some new reporting. Can you tell us about whether or not the crew on board was being paid?

ROBERTSON: Yes, that's a big question here right now. The -- an executive of the airline company said they hadn't been paid over the last two months. He blamed that on the state of the Russian economy. We know it's suffering sanctions, European/U.S. sanctions for its actions in Ukraine.

But we've also heard now from the aviation authorities here in Russia that says they're investigating Metrojet to find out about the lack of salary payments over the last few months. And also investigating what order its finances were in overall.

We also know that they've investigated the company's other two A- 321 aircraft. Those have both been found to be in good condition and are back in the air, we're told -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Nic, thanks so much for all that new reporting. Let's get over to Chris.

CUOMO: All right. So we have the issue of whether or not this was about maintenance or something worse. Let's get perspective. Let's bring in Paul Cruickshank, CNN terrorism analyst and editor in chief of "CTC Sentinel"; as well as Alastair Rosenschein, a former pilot and aviation consultant.

Did I get the name of the journal right?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: You did, absolutely.

CUOMO: Good. All right. So now we have this issue that Alisyn just brought up, about how long they were paid. We need more information on that. That would go to the state of the airline, its fiscal responsibility, its maintenance. Move to the side.

The headline is the heat signature. What is it? What could it suggest?

CRUICKSHANK: It could be all sorts of things. And you've got a plane coming, crashing into the ground with all that fuel, it's not very surprising that there's some kind of heat signature. So it could just be the plane crashing.

CUOMO: OK. So heat signature, Alastair, could mean the -- this being on fire as it comes down. It does not suggest necessarily that something was on fire on its way up, like an incendiary device. When you look at your checklist of what is most likely in this situation, where are you?

ALASTAIR ROSENSCHEIN, FORMER PILOT/AVIATION CONSULTANT: Well, if you're asking me, I would say that -- I would concur with the previous speaker, that the heat flash could well have been the aircraft crashing into the ground. I mean, there will be a heat flash from that.

Whether that's what the satellite picked up or not, I don't know. But that would seem to be the most logical conclusion to this.

My personal feeling on it is that it was probably a mechanical failure of the aircraft. But if not, probably some explosive device or explosion on the aircraft to cause it to break up at high altitude.

CUOMO: The number of investigating parties now adding to just having Russian and Egyptian eyes on the ground. They haven't found those telltale, obvious traces of there being an explosive device. Bombs leave residue. They're easy for savvy investigators to detect. What does it mean to you that we haven't found it, Alastair?

ROSENSCHEIN: Well, yes. Well, an explosion is not necessarily caused by what you would call a bomb. You can get explosions on aircraft from other things. It could be something in the cargo hold, some fuel air vapor, like we had on a TWA aircraft, a 747, where there was an explosion in the fuel tank that caused the aircraft to break up at altitude. It could be an oxygen bottle explosion. I mean, most Americans will be aware that that happened on Apollo 13.

So these things can happen to aircraft. So you can get explosions where there's no malicious intent.

[06:05:11] But, you know, the -- what actually happened will be known. Because they have both black boxes. They have access to the crash site and all the debris there. And I feel fairly certain that, in due course, we'll find out what happened.

CUOMO: And I think it's important in the course of reporting, Paul, to move people away from things that are much less obvious. Terrorism is a very loaded word. But is there any reason to suspect it right now, other than that one group gratuitously taking some credit for it without any real proof or demonstration that they did it?

CRUICKSHANK: Well, that's right, Chris. I think there's significant skepticism at this point that this was terrorism. There was that terse claim of responsibility on Saturday by Islamic State in Sinai. Just a few lines. No proof. If this really was a terrorist group responsible, this would be a huge victory for the terrorist group responsible, so I think we'd see a flood of propaganda. We're just not seeing that flood of propaganda right now. And so from the ISIS point of view, they have a very mixed record of reliability on telling the truth.

CUOMO: And just to be clear, Alastair's point is just because you don't see what is proof of a bomb, doesn't mean that you didn't have an explosion that went out that could be a function of maintenance or other random occurrences inside that have anything to do with human hand, or malice or terrorism.

CRUICKSHANK: That's right. We've heard nothing from the investigation yet on the ground suggesting that a bomb was involved. I've been speaking to some people who have been involved in these kind of investigations before. They say, first of all, you look at the visuals at this flight, whether there could have been some sort of bomb. You look at the wreckage. Next you'd look for residue; you'd test that. It could be weeks before they rule out completely that there was an explosive involved. But no evidence of one so far.

CUOMO: At least you have eyes on the ground. Alastair, the big part of the tragedy with the Ukraine plane that went down was that nobody was allowed access to the site because of the fighting and because of the lack of control over this situation. So, so much information that could have been garnered early on wasn't.

You're saying here, you will definitely know why this happened and if people want to, they would know sooner rather than later, yes?

ROSENSCHEIN: Well, it's highly unlikely that they're not going to know what happened. You know, when you have an accident report, it usually says probability of what happened. It's not always that there is an absolutely conclusive decision as to what caused an accident. But I think here we will find out. I have no doubt about that.

We have the French and German investigators involved, too.

You know, most of the concerned parties have a conflict of interest. And we've heard that from the chairman of Metrojet. We've already heard it from the president of Russia.

However, between the four investigating authorities -- and that will be the Russians, the airline, the French and the Germans -- we will -- the truth will come out. And I'm sure that the cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder are going to reveal, you know, a great deal of data that's going to point finger at exactly what happened.

CUOMO: How does Russia being in the mix here, Paul, change the analysis in terms of what you'll find out and when?

CRUICKSHANK: Well, they're not necessarily the most transparent, nor are the Egyptians. And that's going to be, you know, a problem we'll face moving forward. Are they going to release all the information in a way that, say, the United States or the United Kingdom might? I think the answer is probably going to be they're not going to release as much information as quickly, probably not going to be as transparent in this process.

CUOMO: What would Egypt's motivation be to be not transparent?

CRUICKSHANK: Well, they have an important tourism sector. They have all kind of interests. And it's a dictatorship in Egypt right now. They're just not used to being transparent.

CUOMO: Right. But if this isn't their fault, then obviously, you know, to point the finger back at Metrojet, its maintenance, what happened there, that would then send the ball back to Russia.

Is there political advantage here to be played by Russia, or is this just about embarrassment for Russia?

CRUICKSHANK: Well, it depends what the facts are going to show from the Russian point of view, I think, Chris.

CUOMO: And we do know that you have a lot of different entities on the ground. That's the good news. They have the black boxes. They're not dispositive, but they do give you a whole lot of information about what happened. So we have to wait.

Paul Cruickshank, thank you both.

Alastair Rosenschein, thank you very much for helping us understand what this could not be, as well as what it may be. Just as helpful to the audience. Thank you, gentlemen -- Michaela.

PEREIRA: More drama in the aviation world. Breaking overnight, 100 passengers forced to evacuate after a plane crash lands in Lahore, Pakistan. We're going to show you the Shaheen Airways jet. It slid off the runway into a grassy field. Those engines partially pulled off. The landing gear collapsed. Sources tell CNN -- a CNN affiliate, rather, the plane's tire appears to have burst as it was touching down from Karachi. Fortunately, everyone on board is OK.

[06:10:07] CAMEROTA: Now, to presidential politics, a second national poll shows Ben Carson leading Donald Trump. An NBC News/"Wall Street Journal" poll has Carson six points ahead of Trump, with Marco Rubio now in third place. The Florida senator also surging in the latest New Hampshire poll. His support there tripling since September.

CNN's Athena Jones is live in Tampa with a look at all of the numbers. Interesting take on these numbers, Athena. What are you seeing?

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn.

This is more evidence that Carson is pulling ahead of Trump in the national horse race. Carson at 29 percent, Trump at 23 percent. Marco Rubio at 11 percent. Now, he's still far off the leaders, but it's significant to see him in third place again in this new poll.

One important bit of context here, we say this all the time. Debates matter. And this poll was conducted both before and after last week's CNBC debate. So the effects of the candidates' performances in that debate aren't fully baked in. We'll have to look to future polling to get a clearer picture of how Republican primary voters responded to that debate.

Still, this new poll does suggest that last week's CBS/"New York Times" poll, which had Carson four points ahead of Trump, was not an outlier. You can see that poll there. That was the first national poll showing Carson in the lead. Notice Rubio hanging onto third place in that poll, as well.

Now, Trump is still in the lead in the key early voting state of New Hampshire, in the latest Monmouth University poll. You can see there, that poll has him ten points ahead of Ben Carson.

Meanwhile, Rubio in third place in that poll, as well. His support in New Hampshire has tripled, as you mentioned, has tripled since September -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Right. Si Athena, do two national polls, you know, spell a trend? We'll debate that with our pundits coming up. Thanks so much.

And tonight you'll get a chance to hear from Jeb Bush right here on CNN. He'll be on "THE SITUATION ROOM" at 5 Eastern and then again on "AC 360" at 9 p.m. Eastern. Stick around for all of that later.

CUOMO: President Obama orders federal agencies to ban the box. That means no more asking about criminal convictions on job applications. The goal is to help former inmates integrate back into the work force. The question is will it work?

CNN's justice reporter, Evan Perez live in Washington with a look at the plan. What do you see?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Chris, this is the hard part of the Obama administration's criminal justice reform plan. It's helping thousands of former prisoners reintegrate back into society.

Now President Obama wants companies to change how they hire to help people with prison records get jobs. And he wants the federal government to lead the way by banning the box.

Now this would basically ask employers to no longer require criminal records and for information on job applications. And employers would ask later in the hiring process about this information so that people have a better chance of getting a job.

Now, the idea here is one that had been gaining force in the government. Sorry here. We're having a problem with our prompter here. Some critics are warning that these early releases that have been doing -- going on could make problem -- the problem worse. President Obama has addressed those concerns in an interview on television last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: The question is just how do we go through the various levels of the criminal justice system and tailor it so that we are getting the best results, which are safe streets and a reduced incarceration that results in us as a society spending $80 billion a year?

And some of it's necessary. I've said repeatedly. If you've got violent criminals out there, they need to be incapacitated. They need to be taken off the streets.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREZ: The criticism here is that the federal government isn't really doing enough to help these former prisoners get help and get back into society -- Michaela.

PEREIRA: Yes. The concern is the rate of recidivism. Obviously, we're going to talk about this a little bit more on NEW DAY. Evan, thanks for that reporting. We appreciate it.

More trouble for Bill Cosby. He's been ordered to give a deposition in connection with a defamation suit by Janice Dickinson. The former super model says that Cosby defamed her by calling her a liar after she public with sex assault allegations. A Los Angeles superior court judge ordering the deposition be done by November 25. Cosby's attorney says he plans to appeal.

CAMEROTA: Here is just a crazy story: a 9-year-old boy shot to death just a few doors down away from his grandmother's house in Chicago. Chicago police Tyshawn Lee was found in an alley Monday, shot multiple times with his favorite basketball by his side. Police say Lee may have been targeted after an argument broke out. The shooter remains at large. Community activists are asking anyone with any information to please come forward to help solve this.

CUOMO: A 62-year-old Arizona grandfather arrested and charged with abandoning his 5-year-old granddaughter in the desert with a loaded .45 caliber handgun. This is a real story. Authorities say the gun was cocked and ready to be fired. Paul Rater, Buckeye, Arizona, arrested on two counts of child abuse and one count of child endangerment. Police say he admits leaving the girl alone while he went to get a few drinks and a cheeseburger.

[06:15:17] PEREIRA: There's nothing about this story that makes any sense.

CUOMO: Well, it all makes perfect sense, because it happened. But I mean, why would he do that?

PEREIRA: No. It doesn't make sense.

CUOMO: Why would he -- why would this guy do that? It makes sense, because this is the kind of irresponsibility that seems shocking when you hear it, but it happens all the time. People make terrible decisions with, you know, other adults but certainly with kids and firearms. And his motive for why to do it was probably him stupidly telling the truth.

CAMEROTA: Well, maybe it's alcoholism. I mean, if he was leaving her alone with a gun to go get a drink, doesn't that suggest that there's a larger problem here beyond plain irresponsibility?

CUOMO: He's got plenty.

(CROSSTALK)

PEREIRA: If he's the primary caretaker of this child. I mean, there's so many questions to be asked.

CUOMO: But you know, being an alcoholic will not help him with these charges. You do not get to do criminal things because you're drunk at the time. Society has moved on that.

CAMEROTA: Of course.

CUOMO: But the question is what will happen with this case? Because nothing happened to the kid. And that's just as important part of enforcement.

CAMEROTA: All right. We will follow that story.

Meanwhile, Ben Carson, as you've heard, is on top in another national poll. So is he now the official frontrunner or is there a catch? We look inside the numbers when NEW DAY continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:20:21] CAMEROTA: For the second week, a national poll shows Ben Carson pulling ahead of Donald Trump. "The Wall Street Journal"/NBC News poll shows Carson ahead 29 percent to Trump's 23. Let's discuss this and so much more with our CNN political

commentator and political anchor for New York One News, Errol Louis; also, "TIME" political reporter Zeke Miller. Gentlemen, great to have you.

Errol, let me start with you. Two national polls does a trend make?

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Oh, no, no, not this far out. Today is exactly 90 days until Iowa caucuses and 90 days before the last Iowa caucuses four years ago. You had a whole different situation.

And the person who actually won was way down at 3 percent, Rick Santorum. Ninety days later he ends up winning the caucuses. So it's really too early to sort of -- sort of identify trends or anything like that.

But believe me, Ben Carson is very happy to be where he is, and he's going to do everything he can to stay where he is. And the other candidates, especially like Jeb Bush, as we keep hearing that he's got problems with his donors. They're starting to wonder, you know, what's going on. When are your numbers going to move? How come they don't go up after a debate and so forth and so on? That's what makes the polls kind of real. You know, when the money starts to sort of get a little nervous, when the followers start to wonder what's going on, that's the problem that some of these candidates are going to have.

CUOMO: Zeke, let's follow the through line. Santorum wound up doing well in Iowa for reasons that didn't exist in the poll, but did exist in his political reality. He played well to that evangelical crowd. So does Dr. Carson. So do you believe that that is the source of his strength in these polls as we get closer to the caucus?

ZEKE MILLER, POLITICAL REPORTER, "TIME": I mean, you know, rthat's part of the picture, certainly, with Rick Santorum, playing to the evangelical crowd in Iowa. But for Rick Santorum also, he was just the last person left standing against Mitt Romney. You know, at the time you had the Mitt Romney super PAC drop $20 million on Newt Gingrich the month before. He was -- had previously been a frontrunner going into Iowa just three or four weeks out of the caucuses. So there's an element of that.

Ben Carson and Jeb Bush aren't really set up on that collision course right now, because they're in fairly, you know, different lanes. And Jeb still has a lot of competition within his own lane. You know, sort of right now Ben Carson is the biggest threat to a Donald Trump, to a Marco Rubio to a certain extent but certainly to Ted Cruz. People in that conservative, evangelical lane, trying to appeal to those voters in Iowa.

Jeb Bush has a lot closer -- problems a lot closer to home for Marco Rubio and the like. He doesn't really have to worry about Ben Carson yet. That will be a good thing three months down the line. CAMEROTA: A couple other telling polls to get to. There was a

new Monmouth poll out yesterday that looked at New Hampshire. So there's just the national poll. Looking state by state obviously is possibly more relevant.

So in New Hampshire, what's interesting is that Donald Trump still leads, 26 percent. Carson has 16 percent. Marco Rubio there has tripled his support. He has gone from 13 -- from 4 percent to 13 percent. Is that the trend line that we should be paying attention to?

LOUIS: That, I think, does have some significance. Because Rubio, I think the consensus among a lot of people was that he did better in the debate than anybody else. I don't know if there was any winning that particular debate, because it was such a disaster in a lot of ways. But Rubio did pretty well. I thought he accounted for himself very well. He didn't respond to a lot of the bait that was thrown his way.

And to the extent that he's now sort of in double digits now, yes, he starts to look like, I mean, I think the analogy of lanes is exactly right. There are a couple of different primaries going on. There's that outsider lane of people who have never been elected to any office. There's that conservative evangelical lane, and then there's the practical, government- experienced lane. And Rubio has been, you know, making the case that he's enough -- he represents enough change and enough experience that he's sort of a safe choice if you want change.

CUOMO: And he performed well. You raised the issue earlier, Errol, why are -- what are Jeb's people looking for? They're looking for that. But he gets up on a stage and distinguishes himself in a positive way.

Now it's important to note, Zeke, the national poll does not fully embrace the debate in terms of its timing. It was done a couple of days before. So we only got a little slice of that which may explain this inconsistency for Rubio. He didn't actually do anything in the national poll. He actually went down a little bit.

But in the New Hampshire poll, which is definitely after the debate, he pops. Now, do you believe that this is something that he will sustain or will he go down in Fiorina-esque flames?

MILLER: If you look at Marco Rubio throughout this entire cycle, you know, he's topped the list of people in this race with raw political talent. You watch him work a room on the stump with donors, with grassroots supporters, with kids on the street at a parade. He's just good at politics.

You see it on the debate stage time and time again. He picks his moments just right. That's the type of thing that will sustain him through this race. He has a smart organization, a lot of money behind him. You know, he's not on that same Fiorina trajectory. He's been building up very slowly and very deliberately to peak at just the right time. And now is his moment. You know, and even his own team is trying to stop -- they don't

want to pour too much gasoline on this little spark.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

[06:25:18] MILLER: They want a slow and steady burn all the way to Iowa.

CUOMO: They want us talking about it. Oxygen builds the flames.

CAMEROTA: So -- but true to form, Donald Trump now going after Marco Rubio. He sees Marco Rubio's momentum and so he has been criticizing Marco Rubio and even going after his looks. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I think he's a highly overrated person. I've called him a lightweight. I think he's a lightweight. He says how handsome he is, how good. I don't know. I think I'm better looking than he is. Am I better looking than him? But they're talking about he's so handsome, he's so wonderful. Another thing I don't like about him, and I don't like about him, he was -- he should have been more loyal to Bush.

CAMEROTA: To Jeb Bush, I think he means.

CUOMO: I love how...

CAMEROTA: That's interesting.

CUOMO: ... he says something and then convinces himself that he agrees with what he just said. I said he's not good looking. And you know what? I think he is good looking. He's so persuasive, he convinces himself.

CAMEROTA: I also like the idea of asking your two male interviewers, "I am better looking, right?"

CUOMO: Then he didn't let them answer, which is also a great tactic.

CAMEROTA: Errol, go ahead.

LOUIS: You know, this is the kind of bait that they throw out for Rubio. And being an experienced debater -- he's a young guy, but he's been in politics for most of his adult life. And he's not going to rise to the debate or he would be foolish to rise to the debate and start trading insults with Donald Trump.

I mean, you know, for Donald Trump, I mean, his style is his style. This is what he does. But you know, it does remind me, as we talk about polls, about this notion of high floor, low ceiling, that the people who like Trump like him a lot. They're not going to change. They're with him. But that number just hasn't moved. He's not getting up around 29 percent. He's not getting into that 30 percent range. CUOMO: And there's only one Trump. Zeke, don't you believe that

what really helped Rubio -- and maybe I'm getting this wrong. So please, tell me if you disagree. But when Jeb Bush came at him with what was a legit attack about his voting record, and he did it the right way. We're not friends right now. We're opponents. He actually answered with empathy that did speak to a loyalty, did speak to a friendship and I think helped him very much. What did you think?

MILLER: Absolutely. We've been talking about this the last several months. When Donald Trump goes on the attack, he's that bully that goes after the weakness that everyone knows about, and sort of isolates on it. And, you know, less about the appearance of Marco Rubio, it's really saying you were disloyal to Jeb. That's something that Rubio has been facing from the Republican establishment now for five or six months and now certainly that he's rising, you know, the way -- the way Marco Rubio has been handling this, even as the Jeb Bush campaign has gone and often saying he's the GOP's Obama, he's told his donors, he's told his supporters, don't return fire. Then that's a deliberate move, because he knows that if he were to do that, it would look a little disloyal. It would look -- he doesn't want to play in that food fight.

And as we saw on the debate stage last week, he gave that presidential answer. I'm not running against Jeb Bush. I'm running for the American people.

CUOMO: Sweet strength (ph).

MILLER: And that's what people want to hear.

CUOMO: Versus harshness.

CAMEROTA: Yes, OK. So Errol, very quickly, let's talk about the debate debacle. The Republicans wanted some new rules. They laid out some conditions. Now, I think four of them, at least, are saying actually, we're not going to sign that letter.

CUOMO: As predicted.

CAMEROTA: I mean, what's going on?

LOUIS: That's right. That's right. I mean, look, everybody -- each candidate if you go candidate by candidate, wants something different. Lindsay Graham wants to sort of make it all random so that he might get into the big debate.

CAMEROTA: Split it in two, seven and seven.

LOUIS: Split it in two, randomly assign them.

You know, Ben Carson and Donald Trump, they want as little talk time as possible. They want, you know, two hours, so they can maybe even do that. What everybody wants is 30 seconds to just say whatever they want without having to respond to any questions. Everybody has got different goals. And so it was natural; it was expected. It was anticipated that

they would all sort of fly apart. The media people who are going to arrange the next debate, I think have to be sort of cognizant of that and just very mature about it and say, look, CNBC did about as poor of a debate as you possibly could. But it had nothing to do with political bias. It had nothing to do with the actual format. They just made a lot of mistakes. You know, and it's not going to get repeated, I don't think. If anybody was watching it and took notes, all they have to do is the opposite of the CNBC debate, and we'll be a lot better off.

CAMEROTA: Errol, Zeke, thanks so much. Great to talk to you guys. Let's get over to Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right, Alisyn. A potential clue that could help investigators determine why a Russian passenger jet crashed in the Sinai, killing all 24 -- 224 aboard. Was it mechanical or was it something more sinister? We're going to take a look at that, next.

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