Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

New Evidence Emerges in Egypt Plane Crash; New Polls Show Ben Carson Leading GOP Presidential Candidates Nationally; Cosby To Be Deposed for Dickinson Defamation Suit; Trump: Carson Doesn't Have "Temperament" to be President. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired November 03, 2015 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: First we do have breaking news that we want to get to right now because there is new information about what happened to that Russian passenger jet. Our Barbara Starr does have some new reporting fresh out of the Pentagon. Let's get right to Barbara. What have you learned, Barbara?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning. Again, Alisyn, we now know this infrared heat flash that was detected by a U.S. satellite flying over Sinai was detected in midair. This satellite saw a sudden and catastrophic heat flash in midair. So now we know this was not the impact of the plane hitting the ground. There was some type of catastrophic event in midair.

So now U.S. military and intelligence officials analyzing what might have caused it. They have ruled out by all accounts any type of missile strike. There is no technical data showing a missile was in the air.

What could have caused this? U.S. officials are telling me it is still possible there was some catastrophic mechanical failure. But right now they do not see the evidence pointing to that just yet. On the table all options, but they are looking very seriously at the possibility it was an explosive event, in fact some type of bomb potentially.

We want to emphasize this is very preliminary, all options still on the table. But once you rule out a missile strike, what kind of mechanical event could have caused such catastrophic heat flash in midair? This is the big question.

Now if -- and it is a big "if." If it does turn out to be a bomb and it turns out this was an attack this will be very interesting. It will put U.S. and Russian intelligence back together working together, trying to figure out what happened at a time of such tension between the U.S. and Moscow. The two intelligence services worked together on the attack at the Boston Marathon. But when it came to the MH17 crash over Ukraine the U.S. and Russia were very much at odds about the intelligence about what happened there. We're going to have to see how this progresses.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: And two big distinctions between what happened in Ukraine and here that will benefit the search for truth, Barbara. One, that site was not allowed any access in Ukraine because of the ongoing warfare and because of the political disagreements there. And the black boxes were somewhat secreted away and not able to be understood. Here neither of those conditions exist. Thank you for the reporting. Let us know anything further that you find.

Let's bring in Alan Diehl. He's a former accident investigator for the NTSB, FAA, and the Air Force, as well as the author of "Air Safety Investigators, Using Science to Save Lives One Crash at a Time." Mr. Diehl, let's use science here. The first assumption that it brushes out of this way is this heat signature was easily misunderstood, especially by the uninitiated early on, as maybe tracing something from the ground up to the plane. We now know this is not the case, that this was something that registered an infrared signal of quick temperature change still in the air. So on the list of possibilities where are you in terms of your reckoning right now?

ALAN DIEHL, FORMER ACCIDENT INVESTIGATOR FOR NTSB, FAA, AND AIR FORCE: Well, of course, obviously this is not the definitive piece of evidence.

CUOMO: Right.

DIEHL: From just looking at it you can see that there was a massive fire. If you look at the wreckage that may well have occurred in flight before the fuselage and the wings hit the ground. The engines are missing from the wing so that would cause a massive fuel leak. This doesn't mean it was a bomb. It doesn't mean it was a missile. But clearly this could have happened in the air and not on ground impact. We do know the plane did burn.

Another thing that is very interesting, the Israelis have patriot missile systems with radar. They would have probably detected a large antiaircraft missile launch from the Sinai. Those patriot missile radar batteries have long ranges and of course obviously the Israelis are the very vigilant. So it looks like this is some kind of the inflight explosion, perhaps secondary to the loss of the tail.

CUOMO: Where this happened is obviously clouding some early judgment. There are lots of weapons available. There are a lot of bad guys in the area and a lot of detection systems as well. But there is no proof at this point to suggest anything that happened from the ground initiating the problem in the air. If that changes, the analysis changes. But in terms of an explosion in the air, that is what the infrared seems to be picking up from the U.S. satellite, we're saying "bomb," but explosion could take many forms, some benign, some that have to do with human error, some that have to do with intentionality.

DIEHL: Particularly if the aircraft broke up in flight, and we know that happened. So you would expect fuel leaks. The engines, like I said, separated from the wings. There is going to be a major source of fuel leak there. We saw from the airbus crash near Queens, it didn't catch fire in the air but the engines separated.

[08:05:06] Once you have got engines separating from wings you've got a massive fuel leak which of course could be ignited either by electrical sources or by just the heat of the engine. So this is interesting but it certainly doesn't prove a bomb. They are going to have to get the forensic experts and literally lift the fuselage and wings up and look for any communication of the pyrotechnic devices, pitting and all the sort of things we saw in Lockerby, the Pan Am 103 crash, and the in the Ukrainian shoot down with Malaysia 17.

CUOMO: But the heat signal from the infrared showing something likely happened in midair, that with the black boxes and the examination of the fuselage, shouldn't detecting whether or not an explosion happened be relatively rudimentary?

DIEHL: I think so. And I'm sure the -- I'm not sure. But I expect the Egyptians have listened to both the voice recorder and the data recorder. And that will record all kinds of evidence, such as a shock wave from a blast due to an onboard bomb. It would also detect the loss of pressurization. So, yes.

But of course -- you know, I hate to say anything as fortunate about an accident, but in this case it looks like all the physical evidence, unlike in the Ukrainian situation where the rebels are the thought to cart off part of the wreckage, the Egyptians have done a great job securing the season. And it is desert. It is not the bottom of the ocean or sunflower seed vast agricultural area. So they will get all this evidence.

But I just think the Egyptians are being very careful and probably waiting for other four partners. Right now I don't believe the Americans have been invited into the investigation, although I expect we will believe eventually. You probably know there are some hard feelings between the Egyptians and Americans over the NTSB over Egypt Air 990 way back in 1999 when that occurred. So I think we're going to have people on the ground pretty soon also. But this will be a very thorough and meticulous investigation if the current developments are any indication.

CUOMO: Well, first of all, let me confirm what you said about the Ukrainian MH17. We were there for big blocks of time, and there is no question that that site was compromised and compromised for bad reason. Here is a very different situation. Even though you do have politics at play and you do have a lot of chefs in the kitchen now with all the different countries, but at least you have the block box, at least you have the scene.

This ideal of tail strikes and the past history of this plane with tail strikes, what does that mean to you?

DIEHL: Well, tail strikes can be very dangerous. We've seen tail strike repairs that have failed. The worst single aircraft aviation accident was the JAL, Japan Airlines crash that killed over 520 people. That was a poorly repaired tail strike.

Now, some aircraft are more prone to tail strikes. We know that is when the aircraft is over-rotated and the tail rubs against the concrete or the tarmac. Remember the airbus 321 is the longest of the airbus fleet. So it may be a little more prone to tail strikes. So, yes, that is a big factor they expect the investigators will be looking at. And fortunately the tail is separated. It did not burn. So the metallurgists, once they get the materials in the lab and use scanning electron microscopes, et cetera, and be able to establish was it an overload failure caused by the aircraft coming apart in the air, or did that precede the break up. So we'll learn a lot once the team gets a look at all the evidence. And it looks like, again, the Egyptians and the other investigators are being very meticulous with what they are doing. So I think that is going to be the case here.

CUOMO: We want them to get it right and we want them to get it as soon as possible, not for us but for the 224 families that were affected by this loss. Alan Diehl, thank you very much, appreciate it. Michaela?

DIEHL: Thank you.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: So will any of these new development come as any comfort to those family members who lost their loved ones? CNN's international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson just spoke to a victim's family member and he joins us live from St. Petersburg, Russia. What did you learn, Nic?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Michaela, we just begin to learn this sort of vast geographic area that this tragedy straddles here. We were talking a couple of days ago to a mother who'd literally just flown in from Siberia about 1,300 miles away. We just met her again here right now. She was in floods of tears. She was with her -- she lost her daughter on board the flight. She was with her other daughter. Her other daughter literally just stepped off a plane from New York.

[08:10:00] She told us and described her sister to us. She said she was an angel. Everyone loved her. She had a big heart, was a wonderful person. You see how far this tragedy reaches, the people living in New York to people living in the furthest some of the most distant reaches of Russia, a country that straddles nine time zones. They are all coming here. This is a place that all Russians are coming to place flowers to show their respects. But this family in deep, deep mourning, in arms with each other crying and weeping to each other but remembering with a wonderful love this young girl that perished on the plane, a beautiful girl with a big heart that was loved by everyone and clearly is going to be missed by so many people.

Her mother said that her whole region in Siberia, everyone there is mourning the loss with them. Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: So terrible. Just the impact that one loss of a life can make there Nic. Thanks for that reporting.

Back to politics now. A second national poll finds the tide turning in Ben Carson's favor in the Republican race. An NBC News "Wall Street Journal" poll has Carson six points ahead of Trump. That's outside the margin of error. Marco Rubio also making big gains in New Hampshire. CNN's Athena Jones is live in Tampa. Athena, tell us about these new polls.

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn. This is more evidence of a shift in this race, this latest poll. You can see Carson there at 29 percent, Trump 23 percent. Marco Rubio is at 11 percent. He's still several points off the lead of course, but it is significant to see him in third place in this poll.

One important bit of context here, we talk about it all the time, debates matter. And this particular poll was conducted both before and after. It spans the CNBC debate last week. And so the candidates' performances in that debate are not baked in. We'll have to wait for future polling to get a clearer sense how the performances are playing with Republican primary voters.

Still, this new poll, the new numbers suggests that last week's poll from CBS and the "New York Times" that also showed Carson in the lead was not an outlier.

I should mention that Trump is still out front in the latest poll in New Hampshire, a key early voting state. That poll from Monmouth University shows Trump leading Carson by 10 points there. You can also see that Marco Rubio is in third place. Again in that poll his support has tripled in New Hampshire since September. Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: OK, thanks so much, Athena.

CUOMO: All right, President Obama orders federal agencies to ban the box. That means no more asking about criminal convictions on job applications. The goal is to help inmates integrate back into the workforce. The question, will it work? CNN's justice reporter Evan Perez live in Washington with a look. Evan?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER: Chris, this is the hard part of the Obama administration's criminal justice reform plan, helping thousands of former prisoners reintegrate back into society. President Obama wants companies to change how they hire to help people with prison records get jobs. And he wants the federal government to lead the way by banning the box. This is a section of job applications that ask whether you have a criminal record. And the idea is to ask applicants about that later in the hiring process so that they have better chances of getting a job.

Some critics warned that early prison releases could add to crime problems that some cities are reporting already. President Obama addressed those concerns.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The question is just how do we go through the various levels of the criminal justice system and tailor it so that we are getting the best results, which are safe streets and a reduced incarceration that results as us as a society spending $80 billion a year. And some is necessary. I've said repeatedly if you do have violent criminals out there, they need to be incapacitated. They need to be taken off the streets.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREZ: And Michaela, the criticism here that remains is that the federal government really isn't doing enough to help provide help for these former prisoners as they get out of federal prison.

PEREIRA: Evan, we're going to look at that continuing on NEW DAY. It is an issue that matters to a lot of people.

Meanwhile, Bill Cosby has been ordered to give a deposition in a lawsuit filed by former model Janice Dickerson. She says Cosby defamed her by calling her a liar after she went public with one in a series of growing sex assault allegations. CNN's Jean Casarez is live here with the very latest with this big development.

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And Michaela, this will be the second time in two months Bill Cosby will have to give deposition. This time it is defamation of character, not sexual assault. But it all stems from a complaint by super model Janice Dickinson. And Janice Dickinson says that on or about 1982 she was working in Indonesia as a model and she got a call from Bill Cosby saying I really want to develop you in the area of television and your music, and I will pay for you to fly from Indonesia to Lake Tahoe.

[08:15:08] She said yes, she went, and she alleges that he drugged her and he raped her in Lake Tahoe. She also says that he knew that she had just been in rehab because he sent her flowers in rehab.

And that led to something that she kept close and never said publicly until 2014 when so many women were coming out alleging that they had been sexually assaulted by Cosby, and so did Janice Dickinson. The next day, November 18th and 19th, Bill Cosby, along with his attorney Marty Singer, issued press releases she says were defamatory because they called her a liar, that she was egregiously not telling the truth, and thus we now have this complaint and this defamation case.

Bill Cosby's side says they are going to appeal the deposition that has to be done by November 25th, saying that they have a motion to dismiss that they want to have in this case. And I do want to tell you all that the interesting thing is there is no protective order in this deposition at all. I looked at all the legal documents and there is nothing like that.

So, we should get a lot more information and the fact is this deposition will be on malice, ill will, hatred and spite. And following that motion to dismiss, there then can be a second deposition of Janice Dickinson against Bill Cosby in this case.

CAMEROTA: Jean, so interesting. I mean, this Cosby story just keeps getting new developments. It doesn't go away as much as his camp would like that. Thanks so much for that update.

Meanwhile, we have another update to tell you about, in a story that we first brought you yesterday. There was this man caught on camera attacking an Uber driver. Well, that passenger has been fired by his employer. You can see the rider, Benjamin Golden, slugging the driver repeatedly in the head. Golden is a marketing manager at Taco Bell.

Taco Bell releasing a statement that he is now not fit to work for the company. They have also encouraged him to get some professional help.

PEREIRA: Clearly he needs it if that is his reaction no matter what the issue is to strike him from behind like that repeatedly.

CUOMO: And they can fire him. But they haven't even finished the case yet? They don't have to. An employer can fire for how you represent that company and what you do, regardless whether or not it is prosecutable.

CAMEROTA: Particularly since you have the videotape. Videotape has changed the entire equation, right.

PEREIRA: Pretty damning.

CUOMO: All right. The best predictor of political success may be the Trump attack-o-meter. And he is spending more time on Carson's deficiencies these days and getting some Rubio in there as well. So, they must be doing well Rubio and Carson. That is true.

Are these attacks helping or hurting The Donald? Ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[08:21:23] DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think that Ben just doesn't have the experience. Look, I'm going to make the greatest deals you have ever seen on trade. We're going to run the military properly. I'm going to take care of the vets.

Ben can't do those things. It is not his thing, George. You know, you're born with it. It's not his thing. He hasn't got the temperament for it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: All right. That was Trump this morning brushing off Ben Carson's rise in recent national polls.

Let's discuss all of this and so many other headlines with CNN political commentator Paul Begala, he's also a Democratic strategist, and senior adviser for a pro-Hillary Clinton super PAC./ And Jeffrey Lord, he's a CNN political commentator, former Reagan White House political director, and Donald Trump supporters.

That's why we start with you, Jeffrey.

JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Uh-oh.

CAMEROTA: So, how do you explain that now in these two national polls. This just out yesterday, "Wall Street Journal"/NBC, we can put it up on the screen there -- Ben Carson has leapfrogged over Donald Trump and this is outside the margin of error. Carson now at 29 percent. Trump at 23.

What is going wrong for Trump, Jeffrey?

LORD: I don't know that there is anything going wrong. Presidential campaigns tend to be like the movies. You know, there's an explosive opening and then you have a very long middle with lots of ups and downs and then the end is victory or defeat. Polls go with up or down.

Paul Begala, as I recall, he had a candidate once in 1992, actually lost the New Hampshire primaries, promptly step to the mikes and called himself the comeback kid and I think he did pretty well.

CAMEROTA: Bill Clinton perhaps?

LORD: I'm sorry?

CAMEROTA: I believe you are referring to bill Clinton.

LORD: That is the same, that is the same.

CUOMO: Well done.

LORD: And he did pretty well losing the New Hampshire primary.

So, these things come and go, they go up and down, and I expect there to be more of these kind of things before we actually get there.

And, by the way, as the Clinton experience indicated these things can go on for quite a long time. You can lose here or there and you can still emerge the winner.

CAMEROTA: OK.

CUOMO: This is the moment for you to say I know Bill Clinton he is a friend of mine. Donald Trump, you are no Bill Clinton.

(LAUGHTER)

CUOMO: Let me ask you this, why does it work for Donald Trump? To use as salvo the same thing that is used on him as salvo, which is that Carson is saying he's going to do these things, but he can't do them, I can do them? He has been roundly attacked for not putting any meat on the bones, yet he's using it effectively it seems against Carson or not?

PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Right. No, jujitsu. The word you hear about Trump so often is temperament. The word he just used about the Dr. Carson? Temperament. Even though most think his very low key, pleasant demeanor is least of his problems. Not the greatest.

I think it's genius. I happen to agree with everything Jeffrey says. These things go up and down.

LORD: Uh-oh!

BEGALA: Trump is not -- don't think that as offense. But it just means that you are right -- Donald Trump is not going anywhere. This New Hampshire poll, he's only down two from the last poll, which is well within the margin. So, he's very stable. They are not rejecting him.

There is going to now be a very clear I think fight for the antiestablishment nomination. There are I think two brackets in the party, the antiestablishment and the establishment. Trump and Carson now fighting it out for the antiestablishment. But watch Ted Cruz. I think he could come around and win.

In the establishment side they are really all polling poorly. But this is -- I think clearly Marco Rubio on the move. John Kasich, watch him. And then Jeb Bush, we'll just watch him descend into oblivion.

CAMEROTA: You brought up the New Hampshire poll, so let's talk about it. In the latest New Hampshire poll, you said as you rightly pointed out, Donald Trump is down just 2 percent. You say no big deal.

But let's look what's happening three rungs down. Marco Rubio has tripled his support since September.

CUOMO: The benefit of starting low.

BEGALA: That's right.

CAMEROTA: True to form, Donald Trump has now also gone after Rubio.

[08:25:00] Let me play for you what Trump is saying about Rubio.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I think he's a highly overrated person. I've called him a lightweight. I think he's a lightweight. Just how handsome is, how good -- I don't know. I think I'm better looking than he is. Am I better looking than him?

They're talking about, he's so handsome. He's so wonderful.

Another thing I didn't like about him and I don't like about him, he was -- he should have been more loyal to Bush.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Jeffrey, let's set aside the last part there, because I think we can all grasp on the way that's coming from. Help me understand something. I want to diagnose this, what's going on with Trump.

LORD: Yes.

CUOMO: It sounds to me like there is almost an internal voice that says something. The rest of him hears it and then decides whether or not they believe it. He says, Rubio, I said that he's inexperienced. Do you know what? I think he may be inexperienced, like he convinced himself.

CAMEROTA: He's debating himself.

CUOMO: Is that part of his process that he says something as a suggestion and decides whether or not he likes it and says it again?

LORD: Everybody has their process. The thing is when you are in these campaigns, your job is to attack the other guy. I mean, that's what happened here.

CUOMO: That is one reckoning.

LORD: And as I've said. You know, I've gone back a take an a long look at lots of primaries all the way back to 1960, and good Lord, you know, poor Hubert Humphrey was accuse by JFK of being a draft dodger --

CUOMO: When did the man over your right shoulder like a guardian angel ever say any of the things we hear routinely he said about his opponents?

LORD: Well, it was said about him, it was said about him.

CUOMO: Maybe that's why Reagan won in part, because of what was said about him.

LORD: And the then the voodoo economic system of the George H.W. Bush.

So, this kind of stuff gets said, and that's what primaries do, they sort all this out, that's what the voters are looking to hear, and they will keep the wheat and throw away the chaff.

CAMEROTA: Like that.

All right. Next week, Paul, is the next debate. And Republican candidates were not happy as you know, the Republican candidates were not happy with how the CNBC debates --

BEGALA: Poor babies. I know. I feel so sorry for them. Their feelings hurt.

CAMEROTA: They thought the question were unfair. And in fact the format was unfair. So they are making new demands about it.

Here is what I think President Obama has reflected your sentiments about this. Let's listen to President Obama.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Have you noticed that every one of the candidates say Obama's weak. He's -- you know, Putin's kicking sand in his face. When I talk to Putin, he's going to straighten out.

And then it turns out they can't handle a bunch of CNBC moderators.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: He seems to be relishing this little kerfuffle. But do they not have the right to say that they want the debating to be in a different order or different format?

BEGALA: They have that right but they look weak, because they are whining. Our debates, CNN debate that Anderson moderate, my first question to Hillary Clinton was this -- will you say anything to get elected?

Very hard hitting, right between -- did I whine? No, I didn't. It's fair question. It was tough. It was fair.

She gave a good answer. People liked it.

His first question to Bernie, same thing. He said, you took your honeymoon to Soviet Union --

CUOMO: First question? It's like first eight to both of them. I mean, Coop was on fire that night --

BEGALA: So tough.

CUOMO: He did the job the way he was supposed to.

BEGALA: But did my people complain? No. Did we insist that there'd be some liberal like me? No.

By the way, in the CNBC debate, they did have Rick Santelli, who's a right wing clown and he was allowed to participate in that. The clown in the circus --

CUOMO: Tea Party will not like you saying that --

BEGALA: Well, I don't like the tea party.

But here's the thing. I actually agree with the Republicans. Let's have moderators from the kook right. Let's have Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, Mark Levin, Glenn Beck, because as the Democrat I want Republicans unfiltered. I want to hear Dr. Carson repeat his statement, that Social Security is a Ponzi scheme. I want to hear Marco Rubio repeat his comments that Medicare and Social Security weaken us explain. I want to hear Marco explain why a woman who's within raped has no right to terminate their pregnancy. I don't want the lame stream mediate these people to filter them. I want the full blown crazy on national television in this debate.

(LAUGHTER)

CAMEROTA: Paul, Jeffrey, your wish is our command. Full blown crazy. We'll bring that some point.

Jeffrey, thank you. Paul, great to see you.

Tonight you will get two chances to hear from Jeb Bush right here on CNN. That was a bad segue on my part, because this is real news. You should tune in, 5:00 a.m. Eastern, and again, on "AC360", 8:00 p.m. Eastern.

Michaela?

PEREIRA: If he wants full blown crazy, he should just like tune in to NEW DAY every day. The three of us provide ample doses of that I would argue.

All right. President Obama, just the latest to have fun at the expense of last week's Republican debate. Can the party pull it together before they square off again next week?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)