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New Evidence Suggests Egyptian Plane Crash Possibly Due to Terrorism; New Polls Show Donald Trump and Ben Carson Leading Other Republican Presidential Candidates; Carson's Claims About Violent Childhood in Question; Sanders Sharpens Attacks Against Clinton. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired November 05, 2015 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00] SEN. MARCO RUBIO, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: -- American express card. If there were personal expenses on there I paid them directly.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Marco Rubio doing much, much better. What do you say?

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: All I know is I'm number one.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would go after people with rocks, bricks and baseball bats and hammers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His calm demeanor was carved out after a violent past.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was surprised when I read he tried to stab someone. What?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota, and Michaela Pereira.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY. A suspected ISIS bomb now the primary focus in last week's Metrojet disaster in Egypt. Intelligence form the U.S., Britain, and the Middle East now suggesting the terror group managed to get a bomb on board, perhaps even with help from inside the airport, but remember this is still early and unconfirmed.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Officials initially doubted the ISIS had the capability to bring down a plane, but online chatter may change thinking. This morning the Russians and Egyptians, though, are pushing back against the bomb theory. CNN's coverage around the world begins with CNN's national correspondent Clarissa Ward in London where the British prime minister is meeting with Egypt's president this morning. Clarissa, what's the latest?

CLARISSA WARD, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn. Well, the timing of this really could not be more awkward. Just moments ago Egyptian President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi walked into 10 Downing Street. He was greeted warmly by the British prime minister. This was supposed to be a three day state visit that was going to focus on issues like trade and security. But obviously topping the agenda knew is the British government's decision to temporarily suspend all flights to and from Sharm el-Sheikh.

Now before Abdel Fattah el-Sisi arrived here at 10 Downing Street, the prime minister made some comments. He said that he was going to speak to President Putin of Russia to give more details and explanations for the British government's decision to temporarily halt all of these flights. He said he had already spoken to President Sisi and that he would be talking to them again.

And while he also said it is not certain that the plane was brought down by a bomb, he said it was quote, "more likely than not." He would not be drawn on questions as to whether or not ISIS is behind the bombing if indeed it is a bombing. But certainly we expect to hear more throughout the day. Michaela?

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you so much for that Clarissa. So what else does U.S. intelligence have to say about this? CNN's Barbara Starr has more on that angle for us from the Pentagon. Barbara, good morning once again.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Michaela.

Well, the U.S. was quickly able to rule out a missile strike against the plane. There was no radar or imagery technical data to support the launch of a missile. But over the last several days as they continue to look at the intelligence, U.S. officials very much saying it suggests that a bomb may have been involved. One U.S. official telling CNN, and I want to quote, "There is a definite feeling it was an explosive device planted in luggage or somewhere on the plane."

That of course pointing intelligence services from Washington to London to look at the security surrounding the Sharm el-Sheikh airport. What we do know is that U.S. intelligence is looking at ISIS and ISIS affiliate chatter, not the public claims that have been out there but some chatter that the intelligence services monitor regularly. Also looking at what had been the rise of militant and ISIS-related activity in Sinai over the last weeks and months. All of it putting the picture together, but still very important to say no absolute final decision on this.

CUOMO: But they are certainly going pretty far down the road, Barbara, and I know that it is not an easy job to suss it all out. Thank you for doing it for us this morning. We'll check back in a little bit.

So if a bomb did get on board was it ISIS expertise or just shoddy security that let this happen? We have CNN's Erin McLaughlin live in Sharm el-Sheikh. She has more on the security situation there. Erin, what are you learning?

ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Chris, we're hearing the strong denial from Egyptian authorities this morning. They say there is no evidence of a bomb. At the same time a spokesperson for the Egyptian president saying it is too soon to draw conclusions. But we have heard in a statement from the head of Egypt's civil aviation authority saying the following, quote, "Regarding the hypothesis of having brought down the plane through an internal explosion, the investigation committee has not found any evidence or data that would confirm this hypothesis."

Now that investigative committee very much an international effort comprised of investigators from Germany, France, Ireland, Russia, led by Egypt. A French source with knowledge of the investigation telling us yesterday that it was too soon to draw any conclusions from the technical portion of the investigation, that technical investigation really centering right now on the so called black boxes. The cockpit voice recorder they say partially damaged could take a while, but they are analyzing the information from the flight data recorder could take months, months to get any sort of definitive answers.

[08:05:10] CAMEROTA: OK, Erin, thanks so much for all of that background.

Let's bring in now CNN chief international correspondent Christiane Amanpour. She spoke with Egyptian officials about this crash. Christiane, thanks so much for being on. What are Egyptian official saying they think is behind this crash.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we've had the highest level interaction with the Egypt government. The foreign minister who is here with President Sisi right now in Number 10 Downing Street for this rather tense meeting between Sisi and David Cameron. And he told us that it was premature to hold or delay or suspend these flights pending any full investigation.

And as you know, both the Egyptians and the Russians from the presidency itself have completely said that it was propaganda any notion that this could have been linked to terrorism. There are clear political reasons for them saying that. Obviously the Russians don't want to know about blowback if it is that for their action in Syria. The Egyptians don't want people to think that they have an insecure facility in Sharm el-Sheikh and that their tourist industry might be harmed. That is one of the first things the foreign minister said to me. And remember, 900,000 British tourists go to Sharm el-Sheikh every single year.

And now the British secretary is saying that what they have heard is chatter as Barbara Starr has been talking about, and the intelligence community telling them what they think may have happened. And British foreign secretary today saying there is significant possibility it could have been ISIS itself as ISIS claimed from the very beginning.

CAMEROTA: You have pointed out perfectly the Egyptians have that vested interest in this not having been a bomb. It would hurt tourism. It would suggest that security at Sharm el-Sheikh is terrible. So given that the U.S. and the Brits believe that there is chatter that has led intelligence officials to believe that it was a bomb and possibly ISIS, how can the Egyptians dispute that?

AMANPOUR: Well, of course the full investigation is not complete yet, and they are hanging on to that taking place and being completed. But right now the foreign secretary, Phillip Hammond, had said our response is in two parts. First we have a duty of care to our citizens. There are right now some 20,000 British citizens in Sharm el-Sheikh trying to get out. So they have sent extra security and they have extra Egyptian security to make sure that the planes they will put on for those British citizens to get back home and totally secured and absolutely safe.

And once those citizens are out of Sharm el-Sheikh, they will reassess pending the ongoing investigation. So there are two parts of the British act of this.

But most importantly the notion of blowback for Russia's involvement in Syria is a hot possibility and a live possibility. And that's really important to digest and understand. And the notion that ISIS and its Sinai affiliate is active and potentially capable of doing this kind of thing in the Sinai and in Sharm el-Sheikh which is a global tourist hot spot. And I can't remember a time since Lockerby that a bomb on a civilian airliner, if this turns out to be the full evidence and the case, has brought down a civilian airliner like this.

CAMEROTA: You point out rightly that the investigation is far from complete. We've had some of our experts on NEW DAY in the past 48 hours who expressed concern that will be transparency in the investigation done by the Egyptians and the Russians because of those very interests that you are talking about. What do you think about their investigations going forward?

AMANPOUR: Well, look, I think people have legitimate worries. On the other hand it is not just as far as what we're being told publicly. We're also being told that a group of investigators from countries such as, you know, Britain, Ireland, and Germany even I think, there are international investigators as well.

But, yes, I mean, let's see what the result of the talks are between Prime Minister Cameron and President Sisi could not come at the more important moment. Face to face, they have to look each other in the eye and decide whether or not this is going to be fully investigated to the maximum extent of the law and investigative powers and to come out with a transparent report, because everything depends on this. Egypt's tourist industry, the safety of tourists going there. As I said, so many Brits but so many Russians, Russians are the second biggest group of tourists in Sharm el-Sheikh in Egypt these days.

CAMEROTA: If it does -- if the investigative lines lead to ISIS having been behind that, this is a game changer. This puts ISIS into a different category than what intelligence officials thought they were capable of.

[08:10:04] AMANPOUR: Well, I think it does. ISIS immediately claimed responsibility, and people were rightly skeptical until they could have more information about what was going on in the area where, you know, they tried to eavesdrop on whatever chatter or whatever it is that leads them down a certain path. As yet, as Barbara and others keep pointing out, we don't know the full extent of the evidence and we haven't really been told it. But ISIS in its latest claim last night said that it was us. We had help. And in the fullness of time we will describe how it happened.

So, you know, we'll wait to see whether that in fact comes true. But, you know, as the British ambassador told me last night live on our air, when the British government says that they have a significant worry, that they are immediately halting flights in and out of Sharm el-Sheikh, quote, "We do not take this step lightly."

CAMEROTA: Christiane Amanpour, thanks so much for sharing your reporting with us. We always appreciate it. Let's get over the Michaela.

PEREIRA: To politics now. The race for the Republican nomination continues to tighten. Donald Trump holding the top spot by a slim margin in the latest FOX News poll. He's holding a three point lead over Dr. Ben Carson, with Marco Rubio moving into the tie for third. This as Rubio deals with allegations that he used a Republican Party credit card for personal expenses. CNN's chief political correspondent Dana Bash live from Concord, New Hampshire, on this. The credit card?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. That is coming as we have yet another poll, national poll, that shows both Donald Trump and Ben Carson are the men pretty far out at the top of the heap, 26 percent for Trump, 23 percent for Carson, pretty much virtually unchanged from October with everybody else far below.

But here in New Hampshire Michaela, Marco Rubio has jumped significantly. And that is perhaps why Donald Trump is going after him on what you just mentioned, questions about his finance, a credit card he used back in Florida, reportedly one he used for personal expenses. Listen to what Trump said and then what Rubio said when I asked him about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Marco Rubio has a disaster on his finances. He has a disaster on his credit cards.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Bottom line is people need to understand is this was an American Express. If there were personal expenses on there I paid them directly to American Express at the time. If they were political, the Republican Party paid them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: And Rubio told me that he is going to release publicly as soon as he can the credit cards statements to show that he did nothing wrong. But Chris, Donald Trump is not letting go on this. He's hoping that this is his new low energy for Bush or low energy for Carson that he keeps repeating over and over that Rubio has a problem with his finances, that that is going to seep in to narrative and it will be hard for Rubio to get it out.

CUOMO: Well, look, these tactics have worked for Trump in the past. It is somewhat ironic that he's going after Rubio for profligate spending and how it's gotten him in trouble given what the criticisms are of Trump and a lot of his casinos. But if it's working then he's going to stick with it. We know that. Dana, thank you very much.

Other political news, Bush 41, slamming two of Bush 43's most trusted advisers in a new book. George H. W. Bush told his biographer John Meacham that Dick Cheney as vice president, quote, "built his own empire" inside the White House and asserted too much, quote, "hard line influence." About Donald Rumsfeld, his son's secretary defense, the elder Bush says he was, quote, "arrogant and served the president badly." The book due out next week.

CAMEROTA: Well, a California student goes on a stabbing spree on a college campus just outside San Francisco. Investigators now trying to determine a motive. This happened at U.C. Merced on Wednesday. Police say the suspect entered a classroom with a large hunting knife. He stabbed two students, a contract worker and a staff member. The suspect tried to run off but was gunned down by police. The victims are all expected to be OK.

PEREIRA: Rising country star Chris Stapleton stole the show during the CMA awards last night with a little help from J.T. Justin Timberlake was channeling his old Tennessee roots.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: Stapleton snagged several awards including new artist of the year and best album. Other big winners of the night, Miranda Lambert for best female vocalist and Little Big Town for their single "Girl Crush." Not being country aficionados you may not have understood anything I just said.

CAMEROTA: I did.

PEREIRA: Are you a country music fan?

CAMEROTA: I do like country music.

PEREIRA: How about you? Where do you stand on country?

CUOMO: I go through phases.

PEREIRA: You do? Currently in or out of one right now?

CUOMO: I don't seek it out, but sometimes when I'm in the garage or sometimes when I'm fishing it finds its way in. A lot is folk music. Italians like their folk music.

PEREIRA: That's true.

[08:15:00] CUOMO: Justin Timberlake, the most talented boy band person ever?

CAMEROTA: I thought you were going to say the most talented person ever. PEREIRA: Yes.

CAMEROTA: He's right on the --

PEREIRA: Absolutely.

CUOMO: Blinded by looks or no, this is straight talent assessment?

CAMEROTA: Straight talent assessment.

CUOMO: She sings bring sexy back all the time at her office.

PEREIRA: Every day.

CUOMO: Just saying.

PEREIRA: True.

CUOMO: Ben Carson admits he has a violent past. But could that violent past be engineered to get him to the White House? Why would he do that? We take a look. You decide.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: We haven't really seen Dr. Ben Carson fired up. But the GOP candidate says he wasn't always so spoken. In fact, he says he has a violent past.

So, we spoke with some folks who knew him back in the day to find out the real story.

CNN senior Washington correspondent Joe Johns has that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Candidates can come and --

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Ben Carson's quiet dignified approach is a big part of his appeal. But he says his calm demeanor was carved out of a violent past.

CARSON: As a teenager I would go out to people with rocks and bricks and baseball bats and hammers.

JOHNS: Carson wrote about striking a schoolmate in the face with a combination lock, nearly punching his mother, smashing his face with a rock. Carson said he also tried to kill a friend identified as Bob in a disagreement over the radio. He describes his temper has pathological, a disease that made him totally irrational. I.

CARSON: I had a large camping night. I tried to stab him in the abdomen.

[08:20:01] And fortunately under his clothing, he had a large metal belt buckle. And the knife blade struck with such force that it broke. JOHNS: It was he says a pivotal point in Carson's life. Depicted in

a TV movie.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Benny, what did you do?

JOHNS: But then an epiphany. Carson said he quelled his anger with prayer.

CARSON: I locked myself in a bathroom and contemplated my life and realized I would never realize my dream of becoming a physician with a temper like that.

JOHNS: From that day forward, Carson says he was a changed man, now in the course from poverty in Detroit to world famous neurosurgeon.

CARSON: I never had another angry outburst since that day.

JOHNS: But that early picture of violence is not recognizable to some who grew up with Carson.

MARIE CHOICE, FORMER NEIGHBOR OF CARSON: I was shocked. I was surprised because he was just -- you know, he was quiet and calm.

JOHNS: CNN reporters Maeve Reston and Scott Glover tracked down 10 schoolmates and neighbors. None challenged Carson's story directly, only one said they've heard vague rumors about one of the incidents, but all said this was not the boy they knew.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was really surprised when I read he tried to stab someone. Like what?

REPORTER: Does it fit with the guy you knew? That kind of activity.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

JOHNS: The campaign has refused repeated requests to help find witnesses or the victims Carson mentions, only by first name, telling CNN it was a, quote, "witch hunt". CNN has been unable to locate witnesses or victims.

TIMOTHY MCDANIEL, CHILDHOOD FRIEND OF CARSON: I associate him with a lot of things but never stooping to the level of a common street thug. So, I was a little surprised by it.

JOHNS: Timothy McDaniel said he was one of Carson's closest childhood friends. He says he raise it after the book came out.

MCDANIEL: I said, Ben, you hid it from us all those years, and he said he was just too embarrassed to even talk about it. I was surprised at some of the things he said but, you know, he said them honestly. And I believed everything he told me.

JOHNS: Joe Johns, CNN Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: All right. Joining us now CNN national political reporter Maeve Reston. She began investigating over a month ago.

Let's also bring back CNN chief political correspondent Dana Bash.

Maeve, you gumshoed it. Where did you go? What did you find? What did you not find?

MAEVE RESTON, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, we set out to find the victims that Dr. Carson had talked about. Obviously this is an important part of vetting any presidential candidate. When you are talking about episodes of this magnitude, which could have been, you know, assault with a deadly weapon, attempted murder, we want to talk to these people about what happened, about Carson's temper.

And we called many classmates in Detroit. We went to Detroit and talked to neighbors. My colleague Scott Glover did. And none of them could recall any of these incidents. They couldn't refer us to Bobs and Jerrys who might have been involved. We talked to a number of Bobs and Jerrys in Carson's class. None of them said they were ever involved in an incident with him.

In fact, the portrait of the person they painted is someone who is shy, quiet, wouldn't defy his mother's order to not cross the street. And so, the person he drives in this pivotal part of his life is unrecognizable to these people.

And I think it is important to note that this is a really key part of Ben Carson's appeal to the evangelical voters who have powered his rise -- this tale of God intervening when he's 14 and he praised and asked God to help him with his temper. And in that moment he says essentially God cures him of this and there is never another violent episode.

And so, we're still just have a lot of questions and we're still trying to find Bob and Jerry.

CAMEROTA: Hmm, it is interesting. You know, what he wrote about in the book and we saw some of that in Joe Johns' piece. He punched a classmate in the face he said. He threatened to attack his mother with a hammer. After an argument, he tried to knife a friend. You saw that depicted in the movie.

And then you heard from that friend who says I didn't know about you doing these things and saying these things and then he hid it from him because of embarrassment. I mean, it is possible that he had an anger management problem and that somehow he reins that in as a teenager.

RESTON: That's right. But just to point, the neighborhood we're talking about here that Carson lived in for his early childhood years and his high school years, when you are talking about hitting people with bricks and bats and baseball bats, you know all of these things, you would expect to find neighbors who would know about that. This was a good middle class neighborhood where parents disciplined other children. Everyone knew everyone.

[08:25:00] So, it is just very surprising that we have not been able to find anyone who can verify these stories. CUOMO: It's also just counterintuitive. One more beat on this, Dana.

You know, ordinarily candidates hide this kind of stuff. They are trying to keep you from finding the people because they don't want you to tell stories about them hitting in the face with bricks. This is the opposite.

And obviously, it winds up suggesting two things. One, what is the truth? But also, what would the motive be to deceive here?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Look, I mean, even before Ben Carson -- well before Ben Carson decided to get into politics, he was an iconic figure. Not just in the black community, but just in this country because of his kind of rags to riches story, because of his story that he tells about what it was like growing up, you know, with his mother without any money and becoming this world renowned pediatric neurosurgeon.

So, yes, it is maybe counterintuitive to think that somebody would want to talk about these, sort of, skeletons in their closet. But those skeletons, he is very proud of and that is why he talks about them a lot, because it helps to kind of paint the picture of who he has sold himself as. And it is part reason as Maeve is saying, exactly right, part of the reason he has such a following because of his personal story.

CAMEROTA: OK, let's move onto the other side of the aisle and that is what's going on with the Democrats. Bernie Sanders, some people believe, is changing his tune about Hillary Clinton's e-mails. We all remember what he said during the debate. He said American people are sick and tired of hearing about your damn e-mails and that got a huge applause during the debate. Well --

CUOMO: You can't do a better Bernie than that?

CAMEROTA: I know. I'm going to work on that.

But in any event, then, yesterday, he gave this interview to "The Wall Street Journal" in which he says something entirely different. He says, "There's an investigation going on right now. I did not say, 'end the investigation.' That's silly. Let the investigation proceed unimpeded."

Maeve, it sort of sounded like he said end the investigation, her e- mails were silly. So, now, he seems to be digging in a little more.

How do you see it?

RESTON: I mean, that was such a surprising moment in the debate, right? It was as though he was giving Hillary Clinton a pass on this piece of ammunition that all of her critics have used against her.

And so, I think now, you see Bernie Sanders and his supporters coming back and saying, hey, wait a minute, let's focus on this. This is part of what people should be considering when they decide whether to support Sanders or Clinton. And he's saying let the investigation go forward, see where we end up and then decide from this. CUOMO: Well, I'll give the senator a half step on this because he's

been so demonstrative in the past. We need to hear him questions about it specifically and see what he is intending.

CAMEROTA: But don't you think this is an about face?

CUOMO: Absolutely.

That's why, Dana, I'm asking you. This is very un-Bernie-sque here. Based on where he's been before.

BASH: It is in so many ways. I'll give you a little piece of color after the debate, which, of course, was a CNN debate. I was talking to a Bernie Sanders source, because I was part of the questioning team and I was sitting on the stage listening to him say this, I thought this sounds like a canned response. Like this is something he was preparing for.

And it turns out, at least to this one senior source I was talking to right after the debate, that they didn't know he was going say that. It sort of happened impromptu.

So that maybe does explain why now -- the result of that, first of all, is that probably not a direct all, but that combined with the fact that Hillary Clinton did well in that debate, Bernie Sanders is not doing that well, particularly where I am right here in New Hampshire. This is his neighboring state. He's from Vermont.

This is where he was sort of soaring and that's come down a little bit. So, maybe that is why, oh my gosh, he actually might be a real politician with real political advisors saying, hold on, reel it back. That maybe wasn't the best political move.

And in four or five hours, he's going to be here at the statehouse where I am to formally become a candidate for New Hampshire.

CAMEROTA: OK. We'll be watching your reporting all day. Dana, Maeve, thanks so much.

RESTON: Thank you.

CUOMO: One of the axioms in, you know, politicking is you never neglect a negative. And that is what they were accusing Bernie of and what many thought was refreshing change.

CAMEROTA: Authentic.

CUOMO: Right. We'll see what happens.

Now, in terms of the Dr. Ben Carson stuff and his past, you couldn't read into what the reporting reveals and does not reveal at this point, CNN.com.

Mick?

PEREIRA: All right. U.S., U.K. intelligence suggesting that it could have been an ISIS bomb that brought down a Russian plane last week and it appears ISIS could have help inside Egypt's airport. How can that be combated?

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